The Economic analyst position in the CIA actually seems very interesting, it seems like a ER role, but for world economies, events. The pay is somewhat crappy though it says 50k-100k but I am guessing the 50k is starting and the 100k is at the senior level ( like when you are 30/40 years old) which would honestly suck, but I know some people taking this gig over some IBD ( i guess prestige) but I dont want to be earning 70k as a 35 year old. I dont know if I would like this fiscally but the work seems amazing. I was just wondering what do you guys think, would you all consider taking this if you had a shot?
I also know somebody who moved to this gig after his analyst stint at a BB.
https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/analyti…
Or would working at the World Bank or something else be more interesting.
what does your contact have to say about the position? Despite the pay, I'd imagine the CIA would take good care of you.
Well, all he is willing to tell me is that it is less than IBD salaries but he said that it is not too bad.
which is very broad
exit ops must be awesome. no joke, you could be good fit for macro funds
really? why is that? the CIA pays government prices which means its usually cheaper than industry. i'd assume top talents would be recruited by whoever pays the most which isnt the CIA.
why would exit ops be awesome?
oh btw, the background check they throw at you is INSANE. a polygraph test is included.
I don't know anyone at the CIA but I do know DOJ economic analysts. The pay will be similar (maybe slightly more at the CIA) and your benefits are similar. Your starting pay will be ~55k out of undergrad with a very incremental time based progression upwards. You'd max out at about 100k as an analyst and to make more you'd need to move into a supervisory role. But it is possible to move into a supervisory role within 10 years. Your pay in a supervisory role would max out at about 150k unless you end up getting a presidentially appointed position. The work is interesting and the benefits are great plus hours are good and you get a lot of time off. Exit ops will vary a lot depending on what you personally did, what you covered, and your network. I don't know anyone who has made the jump to IB or something similar but I do know people who have made the jump to higher paying lobbying type work. In a lobbying firm you can make a ton if you are valuable.
eta the CIA polygraph is known to be, by far, the most intrusive of any given by federal agencies. You will be asked about almost everything. I know people who have passed DOJ polygraphs but have refused to take CIA polygraphs because of how in depth it is.
I was actually looking at a smiliar internship with the IMF. It seems pretty good in my opinion if your interested in macro eco.
Does anyone know what % tax you pay in such institutions?
eta If it's in Europe than I don't know, but if the job is in the US it's whatever you would pay in any other job.
Yea man IMF also seems pretty interesting. I heard you typically need banking experience to work at the IMF? Is that true, and I am guessing IMF pay is better than CIA since its growth tends to be higher. Macro econ is very very interesting.
CIA exit options are probably amazing because the CIA doesn't exactly hire middle of the road individuals. I know we aren't talking about a covert ops economist, but working for organizations such as the CIA or NSA.....signals to other employers you are a well qualified individual.
interesting, Yea you do have to be very smart to be able to get a position at the CIA, but it is comparable to getting a position at a BB on the Street.
I considered working for the CIA when I was younger. I always thought it would be a great resume' booster and would be great for introductions. However, I wouldn't want to be an economic analyst. I would enjoy covert intelligence type work. Not a field agent, but more of think tank type stuff.
When in Rome.
IMF and World Bank are considered to be the two most prestigious institutions in these circles, followed by various central banks and treasuries, then maybe academia/buy side/sell side. Not really sure where the CIA would fit in.
I and at least another person on this site interviewed for it. Imagine being an analyst anywhere else for less pay and a pain in the ass commute in the morning. Thats basically what it is. You are not going to be Jason Bourne.
Oh and 100k as an econ analyst at the CIA at '30/40' is laughable. That salary range includes 50 year old dudes with 25 years government work. You won't touch 100k in any meaningful time frame.
Thats not true at all. I know quite a few folks who hit 100k at the Agency in their 20s.
CIA recruits at my alma mater, and I still go to the events sometimes. The above comments are largely correct regarding the background checks and the pay. The pay is lower than finance, for sure, but who cares...you get to work for the C.I.fucking.A and see all sorts of stuff most people don't even know exist.
The one place I'm not getting too much info is on exit ops: imagination says that they'd be good, but at the same time, I just don't have any actual data.
Can anyone help?
You actually don't get to 'see' anything cool. The CIA, much like any Intelligence type community, is very, very compartmentalized. Its not like you walk into work and some Jack Bauer type is leaning on your desk saying, 'hey, I am about to run a black op into Canada to steal some hockey sticks, I need a full rundown on how that could impact the economy of Ontario'.
Its a lame job, average pay, with a cool badge to get you in the building and better than average exit ops (mainly Bschool from what I've seen.)
Dude, everyone knows that Jack Bauer doesn't introduce himself till the second day.
To be honest, I didn't really get too into what the actual day to day work would be but the impression I got was that there was very limited exposure to stuff that most of us would consider cool (some of these dudes, maybe most, don't even have TS clearances). I may have come off a bit too harshly. This isn't a bad job per se, I have just had my fill of Government work/BS to ever subject myself to it again.
I'm willing to bet the idea of working for the CIA is actually much cooler than the day to day activities, especially if you're not in Clandestine Services.
For what it's worth, I know an intel analyst there who has a top secret clearance and every level he did shit like read slavic newspapers and write reports on slavic trends. Sounds boring as shit to me.
Thats because the kind of people that take, but more importantly keep, government jobs are, in my experience, much less driven than those in a lot of other fields. I know more than a few dudes that work at the FED/CIA/DEA etc and the common thread is that they make a fairly livable wage, have few if any concerns about job security and generally want to do their 20 (or 30 or whatever) and bounce. There are obviously exceptions but this is a fairly accurate assessment 95% of the time.
Do this for a few years and then apply to top b-schools. They love people in government, especially military, cia, treasury, white house. If you can get into HBS or some other elite b-school, you can leverage that into landing at a macro hedge fund.
I see.. well thanks for your input guys I think I may go the ER/IBD route since it seems better academic wise
As a current analyst with the FBI/CIA/DOJ etc. (sorry won't name exactly which one), I am willing to answer some questions to help you guys out. Here is an overview of our pay in NYC:
Straight out of undergrad you make 45K, next year it up to 55k, next year 66K, next year 78K, etc. While it's not much by banking terms, close to 20-25% guaranteed pay raises for the first few years is not too bad, especially since the job is the most secure job in the country. So at 25 years old you will be making roughly 80K, amazing benefits, 40 HOUR WORK WEEKS!!!, and personally since starting I have taken over 8 vacations in a year and a half (without any risk of losing a promotion). Also, we can come in anytime from 7am-10am and just adjust our work day accordingly.
The best benefit in my opinion will be MBA admissions. Not to knock on bankers but after speaking to many reputable sources in MBA admissions, these positions (especially prestigious orgs like the CIA/FBI) are gold when applying to top business schools, especially considering BB IB/PE dudes are a dime a dozen at top schools.
With that being said, after an MBA I will probably switch fields b/c there is no way to get rich in the government!
Just curious, so Texas the CIA (finance research equivalent) is an economic analyst, what is the economic analyst equivalent for the FBI? I am interested in maybe starting here or instead of BB ER since it will be exciting and for the Exit Opps ( MBA, Macro Fund etc), and since I want to work at the IMF one day I think the CIA on the resume will look a lot better.
Also I can guess you dont work for the CIA since you said "our pay in NYC" and all the economic analysts are located in D.C. according to the website :D
I appreciate the informative post though utexas SB+1 for you if you can answer some more questions that I asked! Thanks a bunch
I have a dumb question, if you're not working for clandestine services, can you share the fact that you work for the CIA with family?
Yes.
I am pretty sure not everyone has to conceal the fact that they work at the CIA. Their janitors don't create an alternate life to hide their job at the CIA. I am pretty sure that an economist position wont require the same degree of discretion as an assassin. I am pretty sure the resident economist was not privy to the bin laden intel prior to everyone else. I am pretty sure the brain splatter of bin laden doesn't concern an economist. Double tap bitches all day in cod.....
One of my neighbors was ex-CIA and he held a doctorate is something finance related and spoke three different languages fluently. The other ex-CIA i've met had similar credentials. That should sum up the exit options for you. The CIA is NOT like IB because they employ a fraction of the individuals and are therefor much more selective. I am also pretty sure IB doesn't require a degree in faceroundhousingeveryday. I'm pretty sure a prospective employer doesn't skim over CIA on your resume and disregard what he just saw. Everyone knows Liam Neeson and Jason Bourne will bring the noise.
Just to sum things up....I am pretty sure.
Ambotion- The FBI has financial analysts, intelligence analysts, embedded intelligent analysts, forensic accountants, etc. The embedded analysts are put on a squad (with agents) and if your background is business/finance you will most likely be put in either white collar (all business related investigations) and or terrorist financing. Down at HQ in DC is where you will find more macro focused research based positions that might align more with the CIA gig. One thing to mention, the CIA has more offices around the country that are not in the public view but your right the majority are in D.C. (as with FBI analysts). Also, once you get an SCI clearance it will be a lot easier to jump from agency to agency (pretty common within the intelligence community). Let me know if you have any other questions man.
Revoad- W.Beach is right to an extent. Technically, from the point you fill out your application, you are not supposed to mention anything to anyone. With that being said, analysts do have a little more flexibility but here is one important consideration- the minute you disclose your employment with the CIA with anyone else, you give up any chance to become a clandestine agent. For exit ops, you have 2 options: one is to use the undercover resume/profile they build for you and enter the working world with the chance to re-enter the agency later and the other is to fully expose your employment with them which will cancel any future ops with the agency. My college professor was in the clandestine services for 5 years or so and decided to throw it on the resume for exit ops: he now is getting a PHD, is an author, and is hired by Cisco systems as a full time consultant.
False. You can work for NCS and tell your immediate family. There are only a very few instances where that is not the case. They just can't know your engagements. And analysts have a lot of flexibility to tell who they want.
utexas2010- I would guess the above precautions are even stricter for analysts/agents of higher clearances, right? Not to get off track, but this guy (http://www.deeda.com/blog/2008/03/meet-deeda-team.html) keeps telling a number of people he's been doing high level work for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, including mission exercises with Seals, operations in Pakistan etc. I personally find it ludicrous but have to admit he's got a solid background for it and talks a good game. Any idea whether or not the DNI operates under the same strictures? Thanks for your thoughts.
anyone know how much CIA computer hackers get paid? like, the guys who hack into Russian govt computers or the French president's personal laptop.
What job title do these things fall under on the website? I see "IT Developer" - do these guys ever get these sort of tasks?
I haven't broke into a website since sophomore year of college and I feel like my hedge fund job isnt putting my skills to full use lol.
O U MEAN LIKE THIS
http://i.imgur.com/yTiK3.jpg
But it's not investment banking!
Bears1208- That is why i used "technically". I should have been more specific, I was talking mainly about hiring b/c believe me they will ask if you have been telling people about applying to the agency and if so your chances will be greatly deminished (I believe thats on the website). Once your in NCS obviously your spouse will need to know but beyond that telling anyone else will be highly discouraged (my professor's parents had no idea he was with the agency during his 5 year stint). As analysts, we can disclose it to immediate family, other ppl with security clearances, and legal and law enforcement entities. There is no written rule and i have coworkers who pull out business cards/creds at bars but internally its viewed as a big no-no to the point we are even encouraged to lie to strangers about what we do (counter-intel threat is alive and well). We will be given a 5 year polygraph and they will ask about how often we disclose our info. Lastly, its not false that if you go around telling the world your an analyst with the CIA and then try to get into the NCS your shot is near 0%, it will be damn near impossible to pass that polygraph and background check for NCs if your friends, roommates, extended family, etc know about your affiliation.
no thank you.
This posting reminds me of an awesome book I read, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".
http://www.economichitman.com/
[quote=damn.analyst]This posting reminds me of an awesome book I read, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".
http://www.economichitman.com/[/quote] Interesting read, but the guy is basically a former cold warrior with a weak stomach and a guilty concience gone somewhat leftist. The guy came out of a liberal arts college and the Peace Corps, and the NSA is not a clandestine economic division, it's a signals/cryptology group, making a LOT of his claims highly questionable. He also accuses the US of directly assasinating leaders, when in fact the US did not do so in those cases.
Also, no one corroborates his story.
Texas, thanks for the explaination, so the FBI has a intel analyst position, and in their white collar dept. they have intel analysts working on finance crimes ( extracting Insiders prolly), that could also be interesting, but I could not imagine somebody in this dept. going to Harvard and then working on Wall Street..
THe CIA econ analyst on the other hand I can see that happening since you doing a lot of global econ research vs just catching insiders. What do you think Texas?
Its a catch 22 to be honest. Idk how banks/hedge funds will view an analyst that helped put their former employees in jail. The analytical skills aquired would probably be best for a consulting position post MBA. With that being said, with networking and a Harvard MBA I think it would actually be decent shot. The majority of the ppl I work with were either former Wall Street guys, lawyers, or accountants, so each have a solid understanding of the finance world...could most build a DCF model off the top of their head, probably not, could they explain how bonds are priced and maniuplated, etc - without a doubt. So its a give/take. With the CIA position you will still have an uphill battle trying to backdoor a high finance position but both options are possible in my opinion. Browsing linkedin I have seen many ppl coming from marketing/consumer products to a top MBA to finance but thats just a casual observation. Idk why CIA/FBI employees with ecomomics/financial fraud backgrounds would be at any less of an advantage.
Honestly I would not mind doing CIA work but the govt really slashes the pay..... at 50 I don't want to Max 100
Just one word of caution.. while the exit opps may be outstanding, I have a strange feeling that those who work at the CIA for at least 5-10 years never end up leaving. I can't really pinpoint what it is, but it's not often you hear that someone who started their career in government ended it somewhere else.
Let's not forget, exclusive access to the most well informed insider trading ring ever devised.
polygraph will ask about butt sex
Just respond 'Yes'.
Regards
I have been considering CIA intelligence analyst type positions for awhile. I was always under the impression there would be great exit ops, and maybe there are, but in talking to CIA recruiters, they have a vision for each recruit to stick with the organization. I was trying to get an idea if analysts left after a couple years, but they kind of streered the conversation away from that. Perhaps they just want people to stay with them for the long term, but I found it kind of surprising.
I agree with you. I guess I wasn't really clear. I was surprised there wasn't an official program, whether it be 2 years, 4 years, or 5 years, in which the analyst could continue, transfer to another area or agency, or leave for grad school or the private sector. I just thought there would be a multi-year program at the end of which there would be a variety of options, which there is not.
No one actually wants top performers to leave their companies/organizations after a few years. So, I'm not surprised they avoided that conversation (several BBs during on-campus presentations had the same attitude). And there are plenty of ex-intelligence agency analysts at top business schools, so presumably that's how the progression goes. Government --> B-School --> other opportunity
haha I guess everyone wants to be a senator too right? Since there is no insider trading regulations on them ( u know what that means :D $$$$$$$$$$$$$)
So policy makers know that if there policy will effect company x in some way for some circumstance they will pass it and invest accordingly. Gotta love being a policymaker!
On a serious note Midas, if polygraph asks about butt sex I am butt fucked....
Nah, they are down with EEOC.
This actually looks kind of baller... lol
Just out of curiosity, what are the "great" perks associated with these kind of jobs?
With that being said, you won't get rich but you will live a stable and comfortable lifestyle which is why I think most ppl in my office went from private to public after starting a family (can't beat being home by 4 everyday!)
^^ same pension? I mean what are the amazing perks? Could you elaborate Texas?
Thanks again bro.
No problem man, I am pretty sure the FBI and CIA are under the same pension plan under FERS (look it up for specifics). Basically they base it on an average of your top 3 highest paid years then throw it into a equation...probably come out to a pension of anywhere from 60-80K a year if not higher for someone who hits th GS 15 scale. It will activate after 25 years in or 20 years for agents. I came in at 22 so at 47 im good to retire with pension and lifetime benefits for the family.
I hope people aren't getting the wrong impression. Making it on the buy side (or sell side for that matter) in these circles is no walk in the park because you grab a gig like this out of undergrad. To give you an example, every single person here with Senior in the title has a Ph.D. Every sell side economist we meet with also has a Ph.D. So think seriously if this is a path you want to start walking down.
^^ I see so you are saying senior econ analyst at the CIA all have PHD's. what are sell side economists? Well I appreciate all the input, but if I want to work at a hedge fund then the CIA track most likely not the best even though it seems very interesting, I think I may strive for ER
Sell side analysts try to give people on the buy side advice and insight on investments in order to generate business.
this is way too cool. Honestly if I was a US citizen, I'd apply for this
I interviewed for a CIA role (not economist) after undergrad. There are 5 steps and the first one was a ~45 miunte phone interview. I made it to the 2nd stage where they sent me an envelope where I had to detail a lot of personal information such as:
I never returned the envelope. Btw the envelope was discrete and just said US Gov, not anything CIA. I remember from the phone interview that stage 4 required a polygraph. I'm going to assume that it would be quite intense at that stage and I don't know what the government would do if the polygraph revealed that you left out the part about taking some unprescribed adderall during finals week 4 years ago. The 1st stage interviewer also made it a point that you can't let anyone know that you are pursuing a CIA role. So if you did work for the CIA your spouse couldn't even know. Not my cup of tea.
Yea my gf or spouce would have to know.... ^^^ I agree with the fact that would be very inconvient.
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