Clinical Depression - should I stay away from IBD?
Hi all,
Just wanted to get some advice.
Long story short, I have gone through 2 occasions of clinical depression in the last two years one of which being accompanied by panic attacks. This probably sounds extremely weak/stupid, but I developed the second depression during my SA stint. I loved the job, but it was just the culture that got to me.
Now I am in the position to start a FT role. I am trying to be hardass and make myself think that I can suck it up for a few years. However I am extremely scared about the prospect of having to go through periods of depression again.
I suppose everyone has got a tough life going on and many would kill for a FT job. Therefore I should at least give it a go. However at the same time, I should start looking after myself at some point.
I have just graduated from college so have got a fairly long life ahead of me (I hope). Would it be too early to throw in the towel?
Yes.
When you say "clinical depression" I assume you're being treated/medicated for it, correct?
You're going to get mixed opinions on this topic, partially because the forum is littered with kids that think their career determines their worth to society, but also because many can't empathize for those with mental disorders because they've never experienced it themselves. I think the most important things for you to do are:
Assess the severity of your depression. Is it mild and potentially temporary? Or is it chronic, affecting your daily life and making it impossible for you to find happiness in things? Are you struggling to wake up everyday getting to work?
Seriously ask yourself why you chose investment banking in the first place. Do you find the work TRULY fulfilling? Or are you saying that because you, like many others on the forum, believe that nothing else is going right for them so your value is determined by how much money you make or your professional status? If you realize that you're in it for the status or money, I'd seriously reassess your situation because I've never spoken to anyone that enter IB depressed reach an epiphany during their stint. In the grand scheme of things, your mental health is worth more than a 0 or two on your bank roll. Best of luck.
This is pretty sound advice. KGL It's amazing that you have a FT offer, and yes, it is something that many aspire to achieve, but it seems that if you take the position only because others don't have the opportunity it may just perpetually exhaust you. Might have to do a pro/cons list for yourself.
gold
I fully echo this statement. In addition, I'd just say life is far, far too short to do something you don't want to do to the point where you are depressed. This is far more important since you're in your 20's, literally some of the best years of your life. If you've got a good group and don't mind pulling 80-90 hour weeks for a couple years and then getting out, the IB is for you (assuming you are enjoying the people and genuinely do look forward to coming in to work). However, if you are actually finding yourself clinically depressed, it's not worth it man. Do something else you enjoy, maybe AM with 50-60 hours weeks, or corporate finance/Development. No need to kill yourself and it sounds like you hate banking.
Here's just one question I'd ask myself. No pressure, what do you want to be doing 20 years from now? Does it require IB to get there (such as PE)? If not, get out, get some help/treatment and go do something you enjoy. And leave time for friends/hobbies as well; definitely going to help your mental state.
You should stay away. IB aggravates any personal/physical/mental issues and it's just not worth it. Most of the death stories of analysts / associates you hear generally have something similar as a starting point.
Why is this the case? Plenty of jobs have long hours. Is it the culture?
It's not so much the "cutthroat" culture - plenty of non-finance jobs are cutthroat and hardass (see: product sales, real estate, even PR). It's the fact that it's considered the "macho" thing to ignore or downplay how much you're struggling. When you bottle up feelings and have to power through / pretend everything is peachy, that takes a toll on you. Especially after 80-hour-weeks when you've only gotten 2 hours of sleep and your MD is yelling at you for missing a stupid comma. Easy to snap.
I work a job that previously had me doing probably 60-70 hours all in (I've dropped down to 30 because I'm on therapy internship now and it feels like every day is a vacation). It was stressful. Healthcare is stressful in general because, duh, people's health depends on you. But if I ever felt like I was burning out or I had an anxiety attack that day, I could tell my boss and they would say, "Okay. Take the rest of the day off. Go see a therapist, go take care of yourself, do whatever you need. Health comes first. But come back tomorrow refreshed." It was fast-paced and busy but I still always felt like my health was appreciated.
Not so in finance - I remember telling a VP that I was running a 102'F fever and needed to rest because I was literally hallucinating from delirium. He said, "That's great and all, but I'm really giving you a big opportunity with this deal, so you'd better get into the office now, I don't care" (it was 2am EST our end, I was already home; he was working out of SF that day so it was only 11pm on his end). That was just miserable :(
Yes, IB would put you at significant risk.
I would lean towards a yes answer, but I will offer some food for thought.
I've been there in the past and the saying that "depression is your body trying to tell you that you're doing something wrong" is absolutely true. You need to dig deep and understand WHY some things get to you. Is it when you don't feel that you have control in your life or you're in a dead end? Is it that you get depressed if you don't get enough social validation? Or maybe there are some intrinsic environmental factors that trigger it in you?
You need to dig deep and answer some of those questions. To do that you'll need to understand at a very deep level what your motivations are.
I'll testify personally that when you're working 80 hours/week for a cause you don't believe in vs working 80 hours/week in a place that supports your long term goals and has a team you respect are entirely different things.
You need to get medical attention first. It doesn't matter what job you choose. Try to learn more about why this is happening? Is that biological issues (i.e. hormone imbalance)? Or emotional management issues (i.e. inability to cop with large amount of stress)? Listen to your body and learn more about the root cause of your depression. If you don't take care of it now, it will eventually come back and bite you in the ass.
I'm curious how you overcame depression the last two times. Were you given medication? Did you attend therapy?
Plenty of folks with depression, anxiety, bipolar - the whole nine yards - can have successful, thriving careers in cutthroat industries. Plenty of my friends at MBB and BB firms have been diagnosed with depression at some time or another. But you can learn to manage it.
Of course, the key is getting those skills under your belt BEFORE going into an 80-hours-per-week culture. You don't want treatment to be a reactionary bandaid to an anxiety-induced attack. You want treatment to be proactive and set you up with the skills before you jump into your career.
You also mentioned that you're going to be returning to the same location you worked your SA before. I would speak to a therapist and see if you can work through / figure out if there is any residual "trauma" - and I use that word the way we do in the therapy world, not like Trauma, which typically is thought of on the level of PTSD. (e.g. if you go back and reexperience the same culture, will it trigger another depressive episode because you'll be reminded of your previous stay?)
im diagnosed as manic bipolar but it came because I started day trading at 19. I love this industry even though it makes me crazy at times but you learn to adapt over time. For ex instead of doing everything discretionary all my task are automated which helps with my mental disorder. Also if you get a great psychiatrist he/she can get you littt.
Stay away if your depression is triggered by disturbances to your sleep schedule. Stay away if your depression comes with cognitive effects that will make it difficult for you to concentrate, process information or be detail oriented.
Given you had an episode because of your SA stint, your body is already telling you what it can't do. You are doing nobody any favors if your performance slips or you put yourself in danger for this job.
There are a lot of interesting jobs out there, and honestly it's easier to recruit as someone just graduating from college rather than a lateral with one years experience. You owe it to yourself to be in an environment where you can succeed.
Message me if you'd like to chat. I had a similar experience and my biggest regret is doing banking full time.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I can totally 100% relate. You can keep this going for as long as YOU want to keep it going. It gets to a point where you learn to manage your panic (Panic Attacks suckkkkk) but only up until a point...having a panic attack for me meant that I was in the wrong place, not following my heart (only because they were so consistent for so many years and I ignored them and "sucked it up"). I truly 100% believe that your work should energize you and make you happy all of the time. But that's just me. I couldn't take the culture either. Not worth it for me. Some can handle it for some odd reason (LoL) but hell no, I'm too good for that shiiiiit.
+1 for the relevant username
There's a couple of other things which are also worth considering. In investment banking, will you have the opportunity to regularly step away from the desk for psychiatrist or therapy appointments? I remember one case when I saw my doctor and I was obviously unwell, and he said to come back in a week or two. Work got busy, and I ended up unable to go for another six months.
If you're on any sedating medication, think about whether this is possible for you in banking. While I was on banking, I was on a larger than legal dose of a very sedating prescription. I couldn't take it while I was still in the office as I'd rarely know when I'd be free to leave. This meant for some terrible 8am meetings, where I was so tired the legal advisers were messaging the other bankers on the deal team about how horrible I looked.
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