Colleges for trading?

I am an entering soph at UNC Chapel Hill, and I'm an international student. I'll major in computer science. My freshman year consisted of mainly introductory courses, and I got A's in most courses (Math, Introductory Computer Science, Introductory Finance courses) except English 102 and my foreign language (2 Bs and 1 C).
Once my foreign language requirement is over, my GPA will probably increase (I'm very strong in maths and computer sciences).

I want to become a trader (FX, hopefully). I will not be working this summer. What sort of trading recruitment does UNC-CH see? Would transferring to another school be a good idea? Is it possible with my grades? (my high school GPA was 3.5, top 20%) Which schools would you recommend? Would it make a difference if I majored in computer engineering instead of computer science?

 

depends on which firm you wish to apply to ... i know some BBs who wont even look at computer engineering for an S&T and then i know some who view computer science as lacking in due diligence ... as for UNC-CH ... all i can say is definitely shoot for a 3.8 or higher cuz youre about to be playing with the big boys. its not like its a dumb school, but i certainly wouldnt consider it - by any means - a target ... try transferring into the NE ...easier to get into better schools as a transfer than out of high school

 

dude you gotta start learning to trade NOW......open a personal account(or demo for 6 mos profitably before going live for that matter) and start getting some REAL experience. Theres ur job for the summer. UNC chapel has nothing to do with trading, it wont get u anywhere. If you wanna get into a big firm, u better have close to a 4.0 coming form a nontarget. If you dont wanna get into a larger firm, grades dont mean jack shit then, all that matters is that you have a great track record.... You gotta help urself man, build a track record if ur gonna stay at that school. This is what i did. I go to a very nontarget undergrad and i started trading fx when i was a freshman. I have 3 years of trading experience under my belt now and a track record.......ive been offered positions that ive turned down this year......

 
mfoste1:
dude you gotta start learning to trade NOW......open a personal account(or demo for 6 mos profitably before going live for that matter) and start getting some REAL experience. Theres ur job for the summer. UNC chapel has nothing to do with trading, it wont get u anywhere. If you wanna get into a big firm, u better have close to a 4.0 coming form a nontarget. If you dont wanna get into a larger firm, grades dont mean jack shit then, all that matters is that you have a great track record.... You gotta help urself man, build a track record if ur gonna stay at that school. This is what i did. I go to a very nontarget undergrad and i started trading fx when i was a freshman. I have 3 years of trading experience under my belt now and a track record.......ive been offered positions that ive turned down this year......

Nearly none of this post is true.

 
jameson22:
mfoste1:
dude you gotta start learning to trade NOW......open a personal account(or demo for 6 mos profitably before going live for that matter) and start getting some REAL experience. Theres ur job for the summer. UNC chapel has nothing to do with trading, it wont get u anywhere. If you wanna get into a big firm, u better have close to a 4.0 coming form a nontarget. If you dont wanna get into a larger firm, grades dont mean jack shit then, all that matters is that you have a great track record.... You gotta help urself man, build a track record if ur gonna stay at that school. This is what i did. I go to a very nontarget undergrad and i started trading fx when i was a freshman. I have 3 years of trading experience under my belt now and a track record.......ive been offered positions that ive turned down this year......

Nearly none of this post is true.

lol...right......and how is that? please enlighten if you seem to know...........

 

Like Illinois, UNC- Chapel-Hill is a second-tier school for hiring into NYC BBs. That doesn't mean you can't eventually go in. It just means that unless you win the Turing Award, you won't get straight into trading at a BB or elite prop shop out of undergrad.

One group at our firm focuses on algorithmic trading but exclusively hires technologists with industry experience. Think hires out of Google, Amazon, SalesForce.com, and a few PhD programs. I would imagine that would be a good place for you to go into.

If you can transfer to CMU, MIT, or Princeton, try to do it. Otherwise, stick it out at UNC and make sure you get lots of math courses in and put a particular emphasis on algorithms, numerical methods, and machine learning in your CS studies. It will be difficult, but it will be worth the extra effort in a few years. This is coming from a former algorithms TA who likes to pretend he adds a huge competitive advantage by setting up caches a certain way, though, so I'm a little biased. :D Also make sure you get at least two finance courses and at least two accounting courses in.

Finally, if you learn this stuff in the US, you've got an obligation to pay the US back for all the help and opportunity we've given you. Promise me you'll stay in the country if you can get a work visa.

 

Thank you for the reply guys.

Illini: Yea, I'll stay in the US if I get the work visa. That's the plan. However you should know, I was rejected my F1 visa the first time I applied when I told the immigration officer guy at the US embassy that I'd like to work there. Anyway, Princeton does not have a transfers program. Can't apply there. Will transferring to CMU really give me an advantage? I can try for Dartmouth, MIT, Columbia, Stanford, Cornell, and a few others. Its incredibly difficult though.

Even if I do apply to the honors program (not sure if this is possible) I'm not interested in any of the honor courses. so I don't know if that would help.

About the summer job, I'm enrolling in summer school, so I'd like to focus on that. I could try to get one after ss finishes though.

I'm really disappointed with UNC's recruitment, if they really don't get that much.

 
ethane:
Thank you for the reply guys.

Illini: Yea, I'll stay in the US if I get the work visa. That's the plan. However you should know, I was rejected my F1 visa the first time I applied when I told the immigration officer guy at the US embassy that I'd like to work there. Anyway, Princeton does not have a transfers program. Can't apply there. Will transferring to CMU really give me an advantage? I can try for Dartmouth, MIT, Columbia, Stanford, Cornell, and a few others. Its incredibly difficult though.

For CS, absolutely. CMU is known for having one of the best CS programs in the country and is generally considered a target or a near-target for most banks. Any programmer will give the school as much respect as Cornell, Princeton, or Stanford. If you can get into CMU for Comp Sci, Princeton would be a slam-dunk if they took transfer students. But that's besides the point; they're lower in US News's rankings.
Even if I do apply to the honors program (not sure if this is possible) I'm not interested in any of the honor courses. so I don't know if that would help.
FWIW, the honors courses are humanities courses, but they're often easy As. It's just politically incorrect for the honors program to say so. It's a good way to make the Chapel Hill experience feel a bit more like a Northeastern liberal arts school if you decide to stay.
About the summer job, I'm enrolling in summer school, so I'd like to focus on that. I could try to get one after ss finishes though.

I'm really disappointed with UNC's recruitment, if they really don't get that much.

Welcome to a state school! Wait wait, don't tell me- the professors also ignore you and nobody gives a damn whether you make it as a student, drop out, or commit suicide in class? Oh, the professor would be annoyed because you turned his class into a crime scene and he needed to find another room. Yeah, you're definitely in a technical discipline at a state school. :D
 

Quick reply!

I'm not worried about the easy A's, if that's the issue. I can get the A's in regular courses. I work hard enough, and I have significant prior programming knowledge. (that's why I've taken computer science!)

CMU might be difficult to afford. They're about 15k more than UNC, and I'm already really stretched with a state school.

 
ethane:
Quick reply!

I'm not worried about the easy A's, if that's the issue. I can get the A's in regular courses. I work hard enough, and I have significant prior programming knowledge. (that's why I've taken computer science!)

CMU might be difficult to afford. They're about 15k more than UNC, and I'm already really stretched with a state school.

Hmm, one alternative would be Berkeley. Berkeley is also on par with Stanford and CMU when it comes to CS. They're also a lot more popular with NYC BB recruiters than UIUC or UNC, despite the distance.

Dunno what tuition is, but it's still a state school. Being a state school, nobody will give a damn about you and the professors won't know the first thing about teaching an engineering course, but being a state school, it's also probably cheaper.

 
bcbunker1:
fwiw, i went to unc for undergrad and princeton for my master in finance and actually got more attention from profs at unc than at princeton. unc is big but if you are a standout then you will get noticed by profs, ie i had multiple profs (4+) at unc offer to help with recs for work and grad school. at princeton i dont think more than 2 or 3 profs even knew my name- apparently its not "the princeton way".
Keyword is finance. At UIUC, I got recognized in my finance courses, too. Had two profs who offered to write recs for me.

In engineering, I was a body that the profs had to talk at for a 50 minute class period. Engineering profs at state schools don't give a damn. They just want to do their research. "You know you're at a state school when you see a student cheating on a test because he knows the prof couldn't figure out his name if his life depended on it."

 

I goto UNC and am a rising junior majoring in mathematics and economics and desire to become a trader. You should check out UNC Career Services because they are real friendly and helpful. Last year, we had Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo (Wachovia) offer on campus interviews for Sales & Trading.

The problem is that very few people at UNC are interested in trading, and from what I heard from the internship coordinator, the recruiters were exasperated by the lack of preparedness by those who interviewed for the trading positions.

Although not that many banks come recruiting here for traders, you can use the weaker competition here at UNC to your advantage (even for those limited spots). My advice is that you start reading bloomberg or WSJ everyday so that you can develop a passion for the markets. Practicing on a trading account definitely is also a plus. That way you can go into your interviews as best prepared as possible.

UNC does have alumni presence on Wall St. Just create a Linkedn account and you will see for yourself (I even saw that an UNC alumni was a full time recruiter for DRW).

 

I know the Berkeley CS program is really strong. How is the S&T recruitment there? (I'm looking for ONLY S&T. I'm not interested in general IBD)

bcbunker, CarolinaHeels: From what I understand, few banks come and they recruit mainly from Kenan-Flagler. As a CS major, I don't know if I have a chance. Getting the interview is really the tough part. I can't get a job at some BBs and middle-market banks because (from what I hear) they aren't willing to sponsor work visas. So that narrows down my choices.

 

work visas are a problem, regardless of which school you attend. have you considered widening your net to london, hong kong, etc? im a trader at a bank and would help you out but unfortunately i think we fall into the non-sponsoring group of banks.

 

London and Hong Kong would require work visas too. I don't know how tough it is there. Must be at least as tough as the US (?)

And thank you for your offer. Your advice will be more than enough, really, and much appreciated. I don't want to connect my IRL identity to this account.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, the non-sponsoring group of banks are those that received TARP money?

BTW, just checked, Berkeley out of state is as much as CMU.

 

Quick question: Will transferring to U Illinois at Urbana boost my chances, if I do comp engineering? I'm willing to do that, if needed. Berkeley is too expensive. U Illinois, on the other hand, isn't.

 
ethane:
Quick question: Will transferring to U Illinois at Urbana boost my chances, if I do comp engineering? I'm willing to do that, if needed. Berkeley is too expensive. U Illinois, on the other hand, isn't.
It would give you a shot at the Chicago prop shops like Jump, GETCO, Wolverine, Peak6, and CTC along with Citadel, but if you want to work in NY, it's better to stay at UNC. Nobody comes out to UIUC to recruit from New York.

UIUC is not a target school for the banks. It should be (along with Ga Tech), but it's not.

 

I'm not really worried about where I work. I just want to trade. (and not the market making type)

Anyway. I'm looking at Dartmouth as a possible choice (transferring is going to be near impossible) along with perhaps Cornell.

 
Best Response
ethane:
I'm not really worried about where I work. I just want to trade. (and not the market making type)

Anyway. I'm looking at Dartmouth as a possible choice (transferring is going to be near impossible) along with perhaps Cornell.

Cornell's a good school- currently tied with Illinois in both CS and Engineering overall- but Dartmouth doesn't make the top 20 in CS rankings if you want to continue pursuing a CS degree. They've had a strong program in the past; not in the current rankings.

As a suggestion, it's good to study in a program that requires three algorithms courses, a systems course, and a language theory course in addition to the data structures and basic programming work you would expect from any reputable CS program. Not all of the Ivies offer that; look for something with at least 50-60 required credit hours of CS courses and ideally within an engineering program. I know it's painful, but in the long-run, it's worth it. Students who get this kind of background tend to do better in industry- and programs that offer this kind of background tend to be seen as more rigorous.

I say stay at UNC. I think you've got the same prospects for getting into trading there as you would at UIUC, and it's a strong program overall for the money.

 

Kenan Flagler and the rest of UNC undergrad (at least for college of arts & sciences) have access to same on campus recruiting service. I don't know if employers will frown upon seeing that you were not in Kenan Flagler, but with the recent trend of employers favoring people with quantitative skills, you will have a decent shot if you sell your resume correctly. If you could, I would take some basic econ courses (macroeconomics is real good) and the two beginning accounting courses (corporate finance is good if you can fit it in your schedule).

 

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