Conoco Phillips Trading FT
Hi, I am a long time reader of this board. I got an offer for ConocoPhillips FT position in the commercial/trading division. From what I understand, you basically work in the scheduling and risk and other middle office type of work before you get your chance in trading. I have a few questions that could help me determine if I should take up the offer. I really hope someone could help.
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Is the eventual transition to a trading position after a couple years almost automatic? The people I talked to make it sound like if you do a reasonable job you will most likely have the opportunity, which I am quite skeptical about.
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Is ConocoPhillips trading a good place to start an energy trading career? How about a general trading career? I have a fixed income offer at a BB. I am more interested in energy trading, but would I be sacrificing exit opportunities (and/or earning power) if I take up the COP offer?
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What is compensation like 3, 5, 10 years down the road? Pre-trading? Post trading?
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What are my exit ops like if trading doesn't work out?
Thanks a lot.
interested as well :) How did the on-site go? I am going to be in houston in a couple days for the on-site.
in my humble opinion:
1) COP is a good start for energy trading, not as good compared to BP and Shell. They are ultra conservative in trading and risk management - not much room for growth in speculative trading - they trade primarily physical.
2) Exit opps: hard to move to NY / BB etc if you start at COP. I advise you look into BP and Shell, they have trading offices in Chicago/NY I believe (not 100% sure). I know a couple traders who started at BP and Shell and was able to find jobs in NY at BB's.
3) I heard from a friend who works at COP that engineering majors are paid A LOT more base salary. This doesn't make sense to me if you are doing the same work.
4) The full time analyst program I believe is more than 2 years (I think 6 years actually) before you can trade. That doesn't really sound appealing to me.
If I were you I'd take the fixed income offer at a BB. better exit opps, better pay, ...
just my 2 cents.
two cents:
BP and Shell may be considered, on the whole, more opportunistic trading shops than COP. A glaring counterexample would be COP's Singapore office which is primarily spec trading (crazy gas oil/heavy products markets over there). COP kept it conservative after oil began to tumble from its all time highs that's for sure. Maybe part of that has to do with Jim Mulva being a legacy Phillips guy which may have been one of the more conservative shops of their time. Keep in mind Conoco bought out Tosco, a large opportunistic energy trading shop, right before its merger with Phillips. The current conservatism didn't always used to be that way. So I don't know where Eva gets this notion that there isn't much room to grow in speculative trading...because that is exactly what they are trying to do. They kept VAR exposure low to really ramp up and build out (power desk is relatively immature and growing) now that the downturn, arguably, has begun to about face. This is straight from the horse's mouth.
Hard to move to a BB? Dumb. Lots of BBs look for people with experience on the physical side of the business when they recruit. As if you don't work at BP or Shell, your phy trading experience is suddenly worth squanto? I know for a fact COP traders were recruited to go up to MS when they built out their operations quite a few years back. As banks look to increasingly find ways to get exposure through asset acquisition, traders, even from COP, with phy experience are going to be in demand.
Three is just straight correct.
Four is just not correct. The analyst program is two years (plus 3 months of training). Becoming a trader can take up to six years however, which may be where Eva's time line came from.
On the whole, I echo a lot of the same sentiments as Eva. Energy trading is a tough, but potentially rewarding, business. You have to invest the years to really excel, and if this is not for you, then NY fixed income may be the better route.
Check your PM.
So what's going on between year 2 and year 6 for those people who dont become a trader until 6 years in? Do they just rotate around doing different things and waiting for a trader spot to open or are you basically just proving your worth until someone trust you to give you the ability to trade?
Also Jotah, if you dont mind, just out of curiousity, what was your offer like money-wise?
thanks and I hope I am not hijacking OP's thread too much :-p
Which product are you talking about when you say 6 years?
If were talking gas, what do you consider a true trader, term trader? If so 6 years minimum sounds pretty likely at most shops.
some shops are longer some are shorter. depends on nature of the firm
You're getting into a middle office group with the chance of maybe doing trading down the line. You'll have a much better chance of moving BB to energy trading (at conoco or whatever), and if that's something you decide you don't want to do, at least you'll have actual trading experience to leverage elsewhere.
maybeCOP, check your PM.
LadyEva, you're right. Analysts with engineering degrees will get ~12-17k higher base salary, depending on experience.
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6 years was just a general guideline. not true of power. for natty it would be to become a storage/basis/flat price trader. you're going to filter through risk, scheduling, and fundamentals in the interim.
or even higher than that
Mispoke earlier. Singapore markets are more about bunkers/fuel oil not gasoil.
I don't know what you are trying to achieve talking about markets you don't know lol. FYI, EW EFS gasoil is positive in front.
play nice pillz.... jotah is a nice fellow.
why dont you hook us up on some far east data
so if I come in with 6 years exp can I start trading?
I'll forward that question onto Jim Mulva and let you know what I find out.
thanks bud
I have been seeing a lot of posts on the board lately about COP. My two cents...
COP is currently, and has plans to, aggressively grow their discretionary trading business over the next several years in every commodity. The trading that they currently do is primarily supply trading, which involves optimizing the supply chain and crude slates of the refineries, but don't be surprised to see the balance between supply and spec trading shift considerably in the next few years.
If you're looking to break into the energy industry (which I think you should be), COP is an attractive option. You will receive top-notch training and there are many opportunities for talented people to excel. Working at a bank may or may not be as lucrative over the next ten years as it has been over the past ten. Energy, I think, is most certainly the future.
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