Advice for summer and return offer rate?
Recently accepted a summer internship offer with a top bank/mid-top group from a non-target. Our group is fairly large with a big intern class. Does anyone have any specific advice for the summer? I have a tendency to worry that I won't get the return offer since there are so many interns and because of how competitive it may be.
investment banking return offer rate
Getting a return offer depends on multiple factors. The economy, group performance, firm size and so on. This means that offers can be extended to between 40% and 90% of interns. So if return offer rates vary year to year and firm to firm, what can you do to increase your chances of landing a full-time role? The answer lies in the question itself. Focus on winning an offer not on how many offers are given. Here's some great advice on winning an offer from a certified community member @JoeyJ"
On top of what everyone else has said, the most important thing is to do good work. Don't be afraid to ask questions but try to figure things out on your own and using the Internet first. Don't keep going back to an alayst with questions one at a time as that is annoying. Get a list of a few and then ask politely if they have time to answer a couple questions. Don't fee bad if they say no, they are likely just too busy, so try to ask people who don't look too busy. Print out your work to check for errors, you catch way more on paper than on the screen. When doing a turn with comments, highlight each comment in a light color as you make the change. Make sure all comments are highlighted, and then double check each one and highlight them again in a darker color after they have been double checked.
On your first day, get your computer linked up to multiple printers. 3 color and 3 black and white. Make sure each works. Learn how to send event invites and set up calls. Use another intern you became friendly with as a test. Become friends with other interns, they will be going through similar experiences as you and it's good to have them available and it's good to help others too, people will notice.
leave a traceable trail on the work you do. If someone asks for 10 data points. In your file you should have all 10 and links to where you got it from, which will make the ft persons job easier. Show genuine interest in learning from those sitting around you if they are open. If you finish at 11 and the analyst next to you is teaching you about something, ask them questions even if the topic doesn't seem all too important. Let them know you if they want to leave then just interrupt and say so but if they are enjoying teaching you then continue to learn and show interest.
You want to work for as many people as possible so more people vouch for you, but don't take on a workload you cannot handle. Doing great work is more important than doing the most work. On the flip side, it's important to work with a handful of people multiple times so that they will really push for you if you do well. It's even better if these people are well respected in the office. Becoming very close with at least one member on a personal level is also very important, as they may give you this kind of information and tips along the way.
I definitely missed some things as I am just ranting on my phone as things come to my mind right now but if you do all of this you will be in a good spot. And don't be cocky, that's the worst thing you can do. Be friendly, polite, and show respect to every single person at the company
Looking to break into the industry? The WSO investment banking interview course is designed by countless professionals with real world experience, tailored to people aspiring to break into the industry. This guide will help you learn how to answer these questions and many, many more.
Investment Banking Interview Prep
Recommended Reading
Return offer rate not only varies by bank, but by group and specific group needs in that year. Instead of focusing on return offer rates just do the best work you can. I came into my internship with a point of view that the job was mine to lose. Of course I have always been optimistic. Since it is a large group just make sure that you get to know a lot of people, but be sure not to spread yourself too thin.
As far as more general advice, do not think that any assignment is below you as often times this is where you can actually shine. Analysts aren't going to have you cranking away at a model without double-checking your work. However, if you can show them that you can do the simple stuff like edit pitchbooks correctly then by the end of the summer they may trust you with some more meaningful work. Don't forget to also stick your head up and be social. Being well liked will always score you extra points.
Agree with everything said above. Some banks hire twice as many interns as full-time positions they have to fill, others hire less. My biggest piece of advice is that first, working hard and doing a good job is very important. Make sure you double check your work/make sure it is high quality, and learn from the mistakes you do make. You're going to make mistakes but you are going to learn a lot too so if they can see your progression your odds will be a lot higher of getting the offer.
Second, and at least equally important as doing quality work, you have to be sociable and someone they like working with. Not everyone is a good fit for a particular bank, but if the people you are working with like you and think you are personable your odds are much higher. If you're a cocky shit intern who thinks he knows everything, see ya. Its already assumed you are more than capable of learning what you need to do the job, the biggest thing to the people hiring you is if they can stand to be around you 16 hours a day.
Also, on a side note, make friends with the analysts you work with. They're gonna be the ones it will be easiest for you to relate too and at the end of the day their recommendation will go a long way towards you getting the return offer. If they like you and can rely on you to do quality work, you'll get the job.
On top of what everyone else has said, the most important thing is to do good work. Don't be afraid to ask questions but try to figure things out on your own and using the Internet first. Don't keep going back to an alayst with questions one at a time as that is annoying. Get a list of a few and then ask politely if they have time to answer a couple questions. Don't fee bad if they say no, they are likely just too busy, so try to ask people who don't look too busy. Print out your work to check for errors, you catch way more on paper than on the screen. When doing a turn with comments, highlight each comment in a light color as you make the change. Make sure all comments are highlighted, and then double check each one and highlight them again in a darker color after they have been double checked.
On your first day, get your computer linked up to multiple printers. 3 color and 3 black and white. Make sure each works. Learn how to send event invites and set up calls. Use another intern you became friendly with as a test. Become friends with other interns, they will be going through similar experiences as you and it's good to have them available and it's good to help others too, people will notice.
leave a traceable trail on the work you do. If someone asks for 10 data points. In your file you should have all 10 and links to where you got it from, which will make the ft persons job easier. Show genuine interest in learning from those sitting around you if they are open. If you finish at 11 and the analyst next to you is teaching you about something, ask them questions even if the topic doesn't seem all too important. Let them know you if they want to leave then just interrupt and say so but if they are enjoying teaching you then continue to learn and show interest.
You want to work for as many people as possible so more people vouch for you, but don't take on a workload you cannot handle. Doing great work is more important than doing the most work. On the flip side, it's important to work with a handful of people multiple times so that they will really push for you if you do well. It's even better if these people are well respected in the office. Becoming very close with at least one member on a personal level is also very important, as they may give you this kind of information and tips along the way.
I definitely missed some things as I am just ranting on my phone as things come to my mind right now but if you do all of this you will be in a good spot. And don't be cocky, that's the worst thing you can do. Be friendly, polite, and show respect to every single person at the company
This is great advice, not just for IBD but really for any type of role.
This is stellar and should be more noticed.
All this is extremely helpful. Thank you!
One advice that I found to be just a little confusing is, what does it mean by getting to know everyone in the group, while trying not to spread yourself too thin? It seems a little counter-intuitive. How does mid-summer reviews work and things of that nature? It seems like it is a daunting task for the staffer especially since the summer analyst class will be so large.
What I meant by get to know everyone is not literally go out and have coffee with everyone or something of that nature, but don't be afraid to speak up specially at social gatherings. You want most people in the group to be able to put a face to the name. However, the bigger focus should be on doing good work for the select amount of people you will be working under. In terms of the mid-summer reviews, in my experience people you work with review you and submit it to the staffer. The staffer is more like the medium for that communication.
At my bank, for the end of summer review all of us full timers gather in a room to discuss the analysts. The head of running the interns for the summer within our group brings up each person one by one and opens the floor up for comments. If a group that has a lot of spots to fill and the market is strong, all it might take to get an offer is a handful of people saying yeah he/she was good when I worked with them without anyone saying they had a problem with the intern. Being known is great, but in my experience only people who worked with you are taken into account. So if you form a good relationship with someone who you haven't worked with, you want to try to get staffed on a deal with them.
When spots are limited due to market conditions or for whatever reason you can't control, this would likely not be enough. A handful of yeah he was good would be beat by someone really vouching for you and a few others saying yeah they were good. And even better than that is someone In a position of power really vouching for you. Power doesn't mean MDs as they largely don't get involved. A VP or a top rated analyst/associate can be that person, anyone who is highly respected and someone who people would not want to cross.
You don't know what the hiring conditions will be like, so you want to make sure a large number of people know your name and have worked with you for at least a bit to say you've done well. But you also want at least 1-2 people who you've worked with consistently who think you did a great job, like you, and will really vouch for you.
That makes a lot of sense. I guess to go along with that, how exactly are the markets for M&A? Obviously, 2015 was a fantastic year, but there's been a lot of ups and downs for this current year and it is difficult to gauge what conditions might be like for this summer.
spot on
At my place they said throughout that there was a job for every one of the interns if they were good enough. In the end out of the intern class they took on around 70%.
A lot of people have been focusing on work load, however the social aspect is important too (this is coming from someone who is very much afraid of social interactions!). Make sure that every day you get coffee with an analyst or associate, don't be afraid to ask and don't be afraid to be rejected, they are most likely very busy or have just been.
During my internship some of the older associates even took me for lunch and we would talk for a couple of hours giving a fantastic insight into their experiences and you can also get informal advice on yourself.
[I'll caveat my response with the fact it was based in London and over the Autumn]
Did you get return offer? What type of group were you in? (country, consumer, healthcare, leveraged fin etc?)
A late response is still a response.
I did get an offer for Industrials coverage team.
How to turn my Investment Banking Summer Analyst Position into a FT Role (Originally Posted: 05/24/2017)
Hey Everyone,
Long time lurker but first time posting. I recently started my summer analyst position at a small boutique investment bank. I was informed from the beginning that there wouldn't be the possibility of returning to the boutique for a full time role (They are fully staffed as it is). So, ultimately I plan on going through full time recruitment in the fall. I'll have some relative experience, and I would love to hear how to use that to my advantage for full time recruitment in the fall.
People tend too focus to much on external things that we can't control.
The only thing that you can control is your attitude, effort, and actions. Worry about being the best you can be and the things you can't such as return rates, etc. will work themselves out.
look it up with the search function - there are already some solid threads about FT recruitment. Just know that the FT process has significantly tightened in recent years, such that the vast, vast majority of FT hires are done from the intern class.
Given the uncertainty around return offers, would it make sense to go through FT recruiting just in case?
Convert PE Internship to FTO (Originally Posted: 10/30/2017)
Hey all,
I am aware of the numerous threads and advice on how to convert a SA gig to a Full-Time Offer.
However, I could not find a similar thread for PE.
I did an IB internship in London, and now I am doing an internship at a PE fund in Germany.
Beside the obvious things (work ethic, office politics, work quality) and the other major factor (time spent in the office, which does not apply in PE since we leave around 8-9pm), are there any specific tips you can give to an undergrad trying to get a FTO in PE?
Many thanks!
Also interested!
Do you know if the current fund you are at is explicitly open to bringing on interns for full time?
In addition to the items you mentioned, some of the other focus areas for buyside include being able to work more independently and demonstrate that you can evaluate companies/markets with an investor mind set.
Is it Harder to get a FT role after SA at top banks ? (Originally Posted: 02/15/2012)
I just read this article and I'm actually in a similar situation.
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/73304/guest-comment-why-i-wish-id-cho…
Basically the guy claims that getting an offer from GS SA program is a lot harder than getting an offer from lower-tier firms.
I'm actually in a similar situation, I have 2 SA offers, one from MS and one from HSBC. Obviously I would prefer MS but Job offer at HSBC > >>>>>>>> SA with no offer at MS...
Is there some truth to this article or is it just a bitter ranting prick that sucked at his internship ?
MS is known for its high conversion rate, it was around 70% last year (it went up to 90% in good years...), and HR told us that their policy was to hire whoever was good enought because we were already within the 2013 headcount... but their intern classe is apparently bigger this year so who knows...
This thread is probably stupid but I'm just a scared monkey trying to secure a job for 2 or 3 years to escape the graduate unemployed crowd
that is correct about GS. I've heard otherwise for MS. I would take my chances on MS.
if you go into it thinking you might be in the bottom 30% that's likely where you will end up.
GS is known for hiring a shitload of SA's and having a relatively low conversion rate, but most other banks are not like that. You even said that MS is normally in the 70-90% range, so why are you even worried?
I'm worried because I don't trust that much HR marketing BS...
And no I will definitely not be in the bottom 30% if I'm assigned specific tasks. I'm really strong technically and know my stuff, I just have to avoid failing at fetching coffee and such.
But I'm really bad at all the networking and ass-licking stuff. I actually stopped GS process halfway trought when I learned that there were no "formal rotations" and that the bank expected you to go running in circles looking for some comprehensive MD to push for your offer...
Anyway thanks for your answers, if this is GS specific then I'll stop worrying and focus on what's important.
Bitter prick that sucked at his internship. Seems like he had a shitty attitude the entire time. GS is known for having a lower offer rate than some of the other banks, but that doesn't mean he was SOL. Must have really fucked up recruiting for FT to get nothing with GS on his resume.
Morgan's recruiting process is a bit different from a lot of other firms. Other firms (i.e. Goldman) have a 'weed out' mentality, i.e. they'd rather wildly overhire for the summer and take more than double the summers they need to fill their FT class, throw everyone into a pit, and let the dirtiest, meanest ones survive from the scrap. Morgan has a 'weed in' deal, where the recruiting process is much more challenging but if you get the summer offer, the FT offer is yours to lose. After taking so much pain to get to know you and bring you in, it's disadvantageous to have to go out and bring someone else in during FT hiring. There are naturally the ones who realize the industry isn't for them and who self-select themselves out plus the ones who can't cut it, but other than that, it's a very, very high offer rate.
From what I understand, the low offer-rate thing for GS only applies to S&T. I've heard that banking is in the 80-90% range, where the people who didn't get FT offers were ones who just generally weren't a good fit.
I have heard differently, that GS' low offer rate definitely applies to IBD.
.
if this is how you feel I think you should reconsider S&T...
^^don't know about S&T but definitely IBD corp fin stuff
Who told you MS converts 70% of their S&T interns into full time? Is this for NY? Because my friend just mentioned last night, that her friend worked at MS in S&T in NY last summer, and out of about 30 interns, they gave 7 full time offers (or maybe only 7 accepted, but even so, the offer rate couldn't have been very high). Maybe she misheard but I doubt it.
Asia is a different story though.
Last year in London, 38 ou of 55 interns got FT offers.
Does anyone else have input on the GS IBD FT offer rate for SAs in New York? I've continued to hear really conflicting information.
I know IBD interns who said like 6/7 or 11/13 of people in their group (depending on its size) were given return offers and that the people who didn't were clearly not meeting expectations. I've heard people on WSO swear that the rate hovers closer to 60%.
Someone I spoke with assured me that the reputation for a low offering rate is purely due to the securities division (which apparently does definitely have a low rate), and not banking. Any comments on this?
Thanks!
I've been told by someone in IBD there that it is indeed lower than other banks.
lower rate..i even asked an MD about it and he got really pissy
Need help converting internship into FT (Originally Posted: 09/24/2016)
So I've been interning at a well known tech VC firm for the past 3 months, and I'm loving every minute of it. I had initially planned on doing 2 years of IB and then eventually move into VC. However, I'm re evaluating my option right now and I've decided that I want to go into venture capital immediately, and specifically at this firm since the culture is fantastic and they close some solid deals. I do pretty well there, do all the work given to me and I've even introduced them to potential clients (yet to close any, but I'm getting there...).
So I'm good friends with the investment director (go out to lunch when I come into the office, banter about girls etc). I approached him the other day and asked him what was the best way for me to get a full time offer at the firm. He seemed happy and told me basically "we generally never bother training interns here since they usually leave after 3 months or so. So you want to stay long term?" I said yeah and I wanted to work directly under him in the investment side (basically cap raises, IPOs etc.). He said "well I needed someone to help me out anyways, so since you want to stay here long term I can start taking you with me to meetings with clients, start managing the investment side of things" and so on. We then both got up and he half hugged me and started sending me cap raise forms immediately to look over and start studying them.
So after all this, I sort of saw it as a verbal offer. However, having a "sort of" verbal offer is nowhere near good enough for me to consider I've got a guaranteed position at the firm pending graduation. So my basic questions are:
Without sounding like a pestering idiot, how do I talk to the director (or even someone else) about putting that offer in writing?
What else should I do to show them I'm committed to getting an offer?
Sorry for the long winded post, and thanks for your help.
Bump
Bump...
There's nothing too difficult about this. Keep doing a good job and he'll give you an offer. If not, move on. Plain and simple, really. Do what you can that you are able to control. I wouldn't keep pestering him though.
Converting a Summer Internship (Originally Posted: 01/07/2010)
Im gonna be starting as an SA S&T at a BB this summer and thought it would be useful for the more experienced on here to share their thoughts on the essential do's and dont's for interns, tips on converting to FT, and just dumb shit you have seen throughout the years that has made you cringe.
For S&T, is there anything that an intern should start preparing for in advance?
bump
try the search function....there was a thread specifically dedicated to this...S&T is a bit tougher sometimes and tend to have a lower conversion rate compared to banking...
Is it possible to get a full time position immediately after the summer internship program? (Originally Posted: 02/02/2012)
I have already graduated from school with a master degree in finance last December. I am wondering if I got a offer of a summer analyst, is it possible to get an full time position immediately after I finish the summer program?
yes.
Post Advice for Turning SA Internships into FT Offers Here: (Originally Posted: 05/13/2014)
Hey guys, was hoping we could get a nice thread going of advice to all of us SA's that want to turn their internships into a FT offer. I will be doing Sales & Trading at a small boutique, and my goal is to eventually do ER, which is good because I will be working directly with the ER guys to begin with.
For me, my goals are:
Input would be greatly appreciated and I am sure there are a lot of similar monkeys in my position seeking solid advice.
First person in last person out is probably fair in your situation, but sometimes stupid in IB. You've gotta be smart with your time. I know people who interned with me who often stayed later than I did and didn't get offers, because people thought they weren't efficient and work they were doing shouldn't have taken as long as it did (I'm guessing this is why). On the other hand, I'd get my work done, and ask if others needed help - if they said no, I'd bounce ASAP - note, this still had me leaving post-midnight basically every day.
First in last out in good in theory if you mean it to represent work extremely hard, but better advice is to determine what the culture is like at your bank - if you don't literally need to be first in last out every single day, get some rest and come back refreshed for the next day instead of sitting around wasting time.
Eat shit with a smile and don't whine, even to junior guys. Don't be a retard and make sure you have a senior guy advocate. I know a MD i worked directly with is a huge part of why i got an offer.
I'll let others with S&T experience opine on whether passing 7 and 63 during the summer is valuable, but assuming it is:
If you pass the 7 by mid-July you'll have NO trouble with the 63. It is seriously like 10% as difficult as the 7. So, don't be afraid to give yourself more than half the summer to pass the 7.
Speak less than you think you should.
EDIT: This advice does not apply to questions.
Return offer tips when you are the only SA in your group (Originally Posted: 02/14/2016)
Hey guys. I'm going to be the only SA in my group this summer for a regional office and I was wondering if anyone has advice for me specific to this situation.
I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks in Advance.
Do well....
You throw MS at me but there's no secret here. Do your best, be the best you can be. No other strategy.
Est veritatis et molestiae ex reiciendis necessitatibus. Rerum aut odit non vero est at dolor. Ut sunt minus harum ex harum.
Illo ut consequatur et distinctio velit. Reiciendis voluptates omnis reprehenderit dolor facilis. Nemo aliquid vero voluptatem nihil dolorum rerum velit. Omnis sapiente ullam est nihil accusantium.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Sint maxime et modi ipsam. Rerum inventore vel unde voluptate laudantium veritatis repudiandae velit. Consectetur aperiam quo voluptatibus dolorum consequatur non. Possimus expedita corrupti praesentium consequatur ea porro. Incidunt qui itaque amet quaerat magnam sit.
Quia sed ipsa accusamus esse. Atque velit sit sit porro unde ipsam. Porro hic quia aut ut.
Accusamus doloremque ab accusantium qui officiis autem. Distinctio aut dolores repudiandae molestiae. Quia reiciendis nihil dolorem perferendis fugiat hic dolorem. Unde rerum et occaecati mollitia dicta.