Dcm and chances getting into it ?
Hi everyone
I was wondering some advice here. I would appreciate hearing from others in DCM to get a clearer picture.
I was wondering if you can talk about your experience broadly about working in DCM (hours, salary, exit opps, satisfaction)
I see from a lot of threads that some say DCM has alittle bit more modeling ( on a very very small scale) then ECM can anybody comment on that if there is any financial modeling at all ? ( and what would this consist of as I realize LBO would be more from LevFin)
I also wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on chances getting into DCM from someone like me :
Very interested in the markets and keeping up with market trends , was prior head of managing my universities investment fund, summer analyst experience in MM sales and trading , current position is at a major financial tech company ( think Reuters, Bloomberg, s&p)working in fixed income.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks everyone !
Also want to add how realistic would it be to lateral into leverage finance from DCM I see some threads mention that it's possible and some that it is very difficult ?
Thanks again, appreciate it
Bump, any input would really be appreciated
Hours: In most groups across the street, you will work less hours than a coverage/M&A banker. The difference isn’t dramatic, but it’s definitely noticeable. Please note that most people on these forums tend to inflate coverage/M&A hours and discount capital market hours relative to the actual norms.
Salary: As an analyst you should get the same base as the coverage/M&A bankers at your firm. Bonus is dependent on the group. There is no norm. Top bucket in one group can be different than top bucket in another.
Exit opps: Coverage/M&A generally place better to PE. Go to the PE websites and you can see this yourself. Read the bios and see how many of the associates come from coverage/M&A versus DCM. You will find DCM is infrequent relative to coverage/M&A. Not improbable, but less frequent. HF placements tend to be better, especially the debt funds. For exit opps not PE/HF/high finance, I think being a coverage/M&A banker is more marketable.
Skillset: In most cases (not all!), the modeling (LBO included) is outsourced to the coverage/M&A groups. Yes, I would always expect a coverage/M&A banker to have better modeling/valuation skills than a DCM banker. However, I would expect the DCM banker to have a better understanding and feel for the past/current/future debt environment. Understand that being in a DCM group does not mean you can’t go work at a PE shop. It’s just fact that coverage/M&A bankers tend to take these spots more often than not. I think at any bank your analyst experience is going to be what you make it. I’ve seen DCM analysts run a deal model because they actively raised their hand and took initiative to own it versus the coverage analyst doing so. Although, this isn’t a common scenario.
Satisfaction: Completely subjective. Everyone will place a different value on the experience depending on what’s important to them.
Your background: Yes, you sound like most desiring students wanting to do IB. Very cookie-cutter background. Try to make your pitch unique in some way when you interview. It’s hard, but give it some thought.
Lateraling to Lev Fin from DCM: This question might be confusing to some because some banks have the LevFin group under the DCM umbrella. To be clear, I’m assuming you mean switching from an investment grade role to a BB+ and below role (referring to credit ratings). From a work perspective, there is lots of overlap and it’s a very transferable skillset. Looking at credit agreements, thinking about covenants and acceptable leverage is done in both groups. Main difference is that the lower grade clients. You’ll see more covenants here, more diligence, more complicated deals, etc. Therefore, from a skillset perspective it’s very possible to switch between the two groups. From a bank/cultural perspective, this will vary from bank to bank. Embracing internal mobility plays out differently at each firm.
Apologies for spelling and grammar. In the office and tired. Don’t care much about that at the moment. I think I got all your questions.
+sb
I invest: thank you so much it's really hard on the website to get someone who will actually answer your questions very clear and thoughtful for that I thank you so much.
Follow up question for you or anyone interested, how do you see the dcm environment and investment grade vs high yield issuances in the coming years ? Just curious what others opinions here are
Another follow up as for any type of modeling for an investment grade dcm analyst is this just typical pv of CFs, bond pricing, analyzing credit spreads, comps to other similar issuances ? Just looking for any type of context there
Thanks so much again !
DCM Analyst Role (Originally Posted: 05/09/2013)
So, after weeks and weeks of "following up" to see what my status was and if i was dinged, I finally got a response today. The interviewer said that he wanted to speak with me later today. What does this mean? He didnt answer any of my emails nor did the recruiter, so I thought i was dinged, but still emailed like once or twice a week to reach out. Today, the interviewer finally was like lets talk at this time, gimmi a number to reach you at. Does this mean anything? What would he want to talk about?
How is RBC DCM? As strong lately as FIG M&A?
Climbing the league tables but still a big step below the 2nd tier of MS/DB/GS/BARC. Also, think they owe most of their success to expanding use of the balance sheet...never thought the people were as sharp as at CS/UBS, which are roughly the same in the league tables.
no idea, just graduated so looking for opps. this was my first interview. I know that they are rapidly expanding and have great deal flow, but at the end of the day, it still is DCM and not M&A you know
Secure offer first, then talk about group prestige/exit opps.
what kind of technicals did they ask you?
Who had an interview, I applied awhile back didn't hear anything. Do you have previous experience in ibanking?
Update -- So, after weeks and weeks of "following up" to see what my status was and if i was dinged, I finally got a response today. The interviewer said that he wanted to speak with me later today. What does this mean? He didnt answer any of my emails nor did the recruiter, so I thought i was dinged, but still emailed like once or twice a week to reach out. Today, the interviewer finally was like lets talk at this time, gimmi a number to reach you at. Does this mean anything? What would he want to talk about?
Have you thought about, I don't know, WAITING THE THREE HOURS TO FIND OUT?
Obv. lol, just wanted to know your opinion.
and if I should be prepared for anything, maybe another phone interview or something? Would be curious if this happened to anyone else, and what was the outcome.
Any update?
The call went well. He wanted to just let me know that they haven't mad a decision yet and are still interviewing candidates.
i went in for an interview 2 weeks ago. sounded like they are taking their time. really nice people on the team tho.
the recruiter's email did bounce back when i followed up last week...anybody else get the same?
Yeah, they told me that the recruiter left the firm. Are you an upcoming college graduate, or experienced IB?
exp IB. just to note the MD did tell me there were a couple groups at RBC looking for potential hires
is this rbc at SF?
Nyc
Bump
Day-to-day work for DCM SA? (Originally Posted: 04/27/2008)
I've done a forum search; little comes up about DCM. I know about the menial work (pitchbooks, photocopies, etc...), but what else? I figure there isn't much "modelling" per se in DCM, so what kind of more meaningful stuff will I be doing?
Ill be an SA in DCM this summer...in the interview they told me that interns in the past have modeled derivative swaps, picthbooks, helped with debt origination...where are you interning at?
getting spreads from traders doing some analysis, but mostly market/macro analysis (not fundamental) keeping track of bond issuances doing pitchbooks, etc putting together relevant news, regarding your client list issuing notices to your clients about where you think their spreads are, based on your own comparative models
i was thinking about working in dcm; prob great if you think macro, and you can prob learn alot with respect to that mindset; if you think fundamental (like me), then not a great place to be
Bump
Incoming DCM analyst (Originally Posted: 02/24/2016)
Hi all, I'm an incoming DCM analyst at a European bank and was hoping that you guys might be able to provide some suggestions for the best textbooks/content on the primary bond market. Thanks!
You can't learn DCM from textbooks ;) Just absorb the info on the spot, read up on regulation, go through prospectuses, old presentations etc.
Thanks for the reply paradiesvogel.
I don't start until the summer so unfortunately don't readily have accces to that information. Any suggestions as to where I may be able to find it online?
European bank in the US or European bank in Europe?
In Europe (the UK specifically).
Anymore thoughts here ?
Debt Capital Markets Map (Originally Posted: 10/18/2017)
I'm trying to understand the overall structure of IB piece by piece and how all of the pieces connect together. I'm a visual person and I'm looking for feedback...Does this map look about right? I'm focused on LevFin but what elses should get rolled up under DCM? Also, I understand that LevFin isn't always rolled under DCM...That there's levFin cap markets and lev fin focused on customer interactions?
Hey junior B, I'm the WSO Monkey Bot and I am sad to say, but this thread is lonely, so thought I'd post in here to try and help out. Some potential topics that might help:
More suggestions...
Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.
Hi. I work in DCM in Europe, so things are a bit different than in the States. As an analyst i normally put anywhere between 70 and 80h a week, when things get really busy it can get up to 100, but it is rather rare. Your hours differ as well depending on the client base you cover. As such if you deal with companies in the Middle East you can kiss your free Sundays good-bye. In general more ppls tend to stick to DCM throughout their career compared to M&A, due to high job satisfaction. The pace is fast, markets change quickly, you lear every single day and in all honesty it is an exciting career. Exit opportunities are vast:i have seen ppls move to HF, to consulting, to coverage banker position. financial modelling is sometimes outsourced to M&A, but can be done by DCM as well. More along the lines of difference ratio forecasts and capital analysis (I do FI DCM). Salary for analysts same as M&A, bonus policy depends on the company.
Think given your profile you got all the chances! Good luck.
Making the most of DCM (Originally Posted: 08/19/2010)
Hey,
Just got placed in my bank's DCM group. The group is under the investment banking business as opposed to global markets. However, I know that exit opportunities in PE and HFs are scarce due to the lack of modelling experience.
Its the last place that I wanted to be and I'm already pretty peeved about it. So I don't really need additional comments about how much cap mkts groups suck - that's not helpful.
I would like advice on handling the next two years so that I do not further limit my options. Also, what does an analyst in DCM do??? I've been learning valuation and accting so far, but that won't help much on the desk. What can I do to be well-prepared and eventually be a top-ranked analyst?
Thanks in advance for the insight, I really appreciate it.
Man, I feel really bad for you for not getting into an industry or product group. But DCM isn't the worst thing...
You should obviously kill yourself. DCM is worse than working at a gas station. I mean where are you going to be in 10 years because of this. Most likely living in a shelter and missing all of your teeth.
Thanks you guys lol Long-term I want to get into econ policy (i.e. head back to grad school within 5 yrs). Just didn't want grad school to be my only option hangs head and wallows
Let me temper my little bitch fest in saying you might actually like DCM and want to stay in it. I think too many people get wrapped up in the whole banking or nothing mindset and get bummed out when they get into this side fields. Remember, people care about exit ops so much because banking sucks. I wouldn't be too bummed out man.
What's the difference between LevFin and DCM? I was under the impression that LevFin = non-investment grade DCM? If so, isn't LevFin one of the better groups to make the transition to PE from?
Random question: Is a position as a Global Markets Analyst good and have good exit opportunities?
Step 1: Enjoy the fact that you have your weekends off and make the most of it Step 2: Work your ass off and be a great analyst for the team Step 3: If after a year you find yourself enjoying said job, congrats! You're in a good place. If not, look to lateral internally into a coverage group. It's not impossible - I know many people who went from ECM/DCM/SLF/Credit to coverage after a year, especially if you're a good analyst with proven work ethic. But keep Step 1 in mind when deciding lol.
But you might like it. Being in a product group has its pros - you learn a lot more about the markets (I assume that might be more interesting for you if you want to do grad econ) and, at my bank, the people in product groups tend to stay and rise up more readily than in coverage groups. And as a product person, you start running the deals / interacting with the client much earlier than in coverage.
Use your time wisely. Network, do CFA. Lateral to a better group.
Debt Capital Market (Originally Posted: 05/18/2009)
Hey guys, so where exactly does DCM fit in with IBD? I mean is it like a product group? How are the hours? bonus? Thanks for the help!
DCM is not "in with IBD", but rather the line of business 'sits between S&T and IBD'. DCM is responsible for raising funds for companies & institutions in the credit markets.
The work is similar to IBD at the analyst level (i.e. creating pitch books, running credit analyses, etc...), but it's much less quantitative than IBD--not as much financial modeling.
Hours are marginally less than IBD. Typical day = 9am – 10pm or so. Bonus is slightly less than IBD as well, not sure on actual figures now though…
so do the MD's still go out to solicit deals? ie what do the upper lvl guys do?
Go on roadshows, solicit new clients, keep client CFOs and Treasurers updated on debt markets, etc...
MDs usually have a list of clients for whose coverage they are responsible.
you learn neither the fundamentals that you would in IBD nor the market intricacies you would in S&T. The most complex thing you do is comps - it's a pretty shitty gig.
Debt Capital Markets - Anyone willing to chat? (Originally Posted: 07/21/2011)
I am looking to talk with some DCM guys. Anyone willing to chat PM me.
What am I exactly searching for moron? I know what fucking DCM does.
It is cute being told to use the search though. Thanks.
Word, I did tell the guy to use the search function. Feels good to be called a hotshot though.
haha hotshot was funny. it was fun to say.
I was just dicking around, boring day on my desk.
Well now everyone has the right to call me an idiot, just saying I'm not looking for something searchable.
And trust me, number or bananas isn't always a good indicator of knowing what's up...
But having "ant" in a text string in the username is a pretty good indicator of knowing what's up...;)
Training for DCM (Originally Posted: 03/13/2010)
Hello,
I just wonder if there is a place similar to TTS or WSP that offers seft-training materials for DCM? Thanks in advance for your inputs.
There's nothing to self-train. Everything you learn will be on the job. In the meanwhile, just follow the debt markets and have a decent grasp of Excel and PPT.
DCM Analyst (Originally Posted: 04/20/2007)
How are the hours?(are weekend hours a must)? How are the bonuses? etc.
bump
hours are much longer than s&t but not quite as bad as banking...you may have to come in the occasional weekend, but again, not as often as bankers. BOnus is inline with banking and s&t for first year. dont know much beyond that
Yup, DCM hours are long but no where near as bad as IBD. You're looking at maybe 80 hours a week. Some places will have you in at the weekend, others wont.
Bonus wise, MM gets about 200k after 4 - 5 years when times are "Decent"
so does that mean that second tier banks would require more hours?
Whats MM?
MM = middle market
DCM Comps (Originally Posted: 07/05/2007)
How is DCM Comps compare to Investment Banking-corporate finance guys?
you have horrible english. try being less retarded.
haha, owned.
dude, who is retarded here? go piss somewhere else.
luckily you don't need to know grammar for analyst.
I'd like to know as well
What is DCM? (Originally Posted: 11/01/2007)
What exactly is DCM? I am having trouble understanding exactly what they do in DCM and where their role lies in a transaction?
Usually the syndicate/structuring/origination groups for debt deals, sits between IBD and Sales & Trading.
Like do they do LBOs, so are they the team who is coordinating between leveraged finance and the syndicate desk? Also what else do they do other than LBO's, just regular debt issuances?
I've never come across a team that sits between LevFin and Syndications. They both usually sit under the DCM umbrella - alternatively, in some banks, they can sit say under Fixed Income Capital Markets. It varies from bank to bank. High Yield will often sit under DCM as well as more standard bond/debt departments.
At JPM, DCM group covers high-grade bonds/hybrids only.
Heard alot about DCM, what the heck do you actually do... (Originally Posted: 11/06/2007)
I will be working in DCM next fall and understand it is essentially debt financing..What exactly does a DCM analyst do? I understand they do not delve into financial modeling, so what do they work on? What kind of skills does a DCM analyst learn? I hate to ask the question because everyone does....Exit opps of a DCM analyst (i will be at a tier 2 BB)
Anything concrete about DCM is appreciated (aka, i know its a link btwn IBD and S&T, but what do they actually do?!)
As the old threads in the archives will tell you, it really depends which group within DCM. There are lots of products that fall under Debt Capital Markets; sometimes even leveraged finance.
Say that this particular group does not deal with lev fin, but deals with high grade/government/foreign bonds etc
DCM Question (Originally Posted: 03/04/2011)
I have a DCM question. Are there any DCM people that don't mind if I PM them? It's pretty brief. For an SB...thanks.
Ask em here so we all can know?
Well, I would, but it's fairly indentity sensitive...normally I am pro-public-WSO-benefit, though.
Looks like we got a situation here
ASK IT YOU WUSSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DCM Locations (Originally Posted: 08/19/2011)
Does anyone know if all the BB DCM orgination desks are located in NY. Would there be a DCM orgination team in Houston or Dallas focusing on energy clients for example?
Thanks
yep-plenty in Houston. GS has a big presence in Houston
^ 100% accurate. I believe (not 100%) the rest would be in NY. Never heard of any outside of these areas.
do you guys know any DCM orgination desks in Chicago?
is it true that you only want to do DCM at a major bank with large balance sheet, top 7 ibanks? would it be interesting to work in DCM at let's say KBW FIG?
Question for Debt Capital Market (Originally Posted: 10/04/2011)
Hi,
Could anywho tell me about the analyst postion in Debt Capital Market? Like a typical day something? I do some research about this position and wanna apply for a summer internship for this. Now I just start to read news and key rates everyday. Could anyone tell me how should I prepare for this job and interview? Any kind of specific skills required?
Thanks a lot!
DCM is very broad, could mean a variety of products
I mean like soverign bond, investment level bond issuance staff~~
Derivatives roles in DCM? (Originally Posted: 01/20/2013)
Is there any fixed income derivatives-type role in DCM? I know the main role of DCM is to solicit, structure, and execute investment grade debt, establish client dialogue for debt-issue advice, and generate ideas. I'm wondering if clients approach DCM with derivative needs, or is that solely within fixed income S&T?
If you're wondering about convertible bonds those are typically underwritten by ECM
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