2nd year analyst here.
Despite an above-average performance review (and likely another above average review this year), I'm finding it difficult to get the same opportunities as my colleagues. I graduated from a non-target and worked somewhere else for a year before joining my current firm. I'm dealing with a few issues:
1) I didn't go to a school with a big sports presence which appears to put me at a disadvantage. People here are very serious about their sports. This eliminates a key talking point for me (and a way to connect with others) compared to my peers. I discuss sports but don't personally connect with anyone because my school did not have a team with a decent following.
2) The other analysts in my group (all but me) have connections to one of the MD's. At least 3 analysts here went to elite private high schools with an ED or MD's son or daughter and hangs out with that son/daughter on a relatively frequent basis. This comes up once a week (MD will ask how was XYZ activity and so on). It is clear that the MD's have favorites which usually comes down to who they're most familiar with. I've had lunch, coffee and attended every happy hour but I haven't had any luck receiving the same openness with my colleagues like my peers have.
Basically, I appear to be at a disadvantage because I lack the connections of my peers. I grew up lower middle class, worked full-time in college and honestly did not really understand what Banking was for awhile. I've spoken to my manager and he says I do great work and fit in with the team; however, I think an Associate offer is highly unlikely.
Am I blowing this out of proportion? Should I look for other opportunities in other cities where the "good ol' boy" culture is not as important?
That definitely is NOT peak "Good ol boy culture". I'm in the south, so I get the SEC thing. It's a poor excuse though. Even if your school does not have a football team there's an SEC team in your home state. Who does your dad or uncles watch? Watch them. Game day is about screaming for your team,drinking beer and socializing. You should definitely go out tailgating with your peers. If they don't tailgate with suitcases(beer) and pans of food then help make that happen. Congratulations you just killed two birds with one stone. You can bond with your peers kick back and "bro" out. Fraternity e.g. a basic form of brotherhood exists in every corporate job I've seen. Use it to your advantage. Don't forget to talk trash about their team .
I'm a Yankee, but I have a cousin at Ole Miss. Went to go visit him and his fraternity brothers last spring.
Goddamn that shit was intense.
It's interesting what you describe. I'm not a URM, and I don't if you're one but what your describing is exactly what URMs complain about in regards to their race being a disadvantage to job opportunity when everyone else is white. You seem to be experiencing this in respect to good ol' boy culture. Like you, I'm not some SEC frat boy from the south so I realized pretty quickly I wasn't going to be engaging in cooler talk or hanging out with them at football games. My suggestion is to just connect with them at whatever level you can and do your best to outperform everyone. At the end of the day, this is business. If you create the most value, you have the most worth, and there is nothing some SEC ass slapping is going to change about that. If the managing directors are smart, they'll realize this and give you the title and pay your worth. If not, then leave and find a better opportunity where you'll feel you are receiving the recognition and pay you deserve. There have been very successful people in much tougher positions that made it like Chris Gardner.
LIBORorBUST, I would really suggest you edit your post and include some examples that make it more difficult to guess where you work. If you work where I'm 99% sure you do, I honestly think you're confusing your lack of football knowledge with you being a URM. Perhaps your group is indeed full of racists, but I find that hard to believe because I know dozens of bankers throughout the Southeast, and literally all of them live and breathe college football, so I feel confident in saying that you not being able to keep up in that sense is the issue.
Part of being a successful banker is being able to hold a conversation with just about anyone regardless of shared interests (or lack thereof). If your MD ever lets you join in on a management presentation or pitch, notice how he/she engages with the client. I never cared for college football and quickly realized this put me at a disadvantage at my bank, so what I did was just read ESPN every morning. It took all of ten minutes, which I would have otherwise spent at my desk anyway, and allowed me to join in the conversation. Try it. I guarantee you that the other analysts will be receptive.
Yeah by no means am I trying to imply that people in the group are racists. However, it is significantly more difficult for URM's to connect with non-URM's in the workplace. I do discuss football with my colleagues but having a "home-team" is definitely important here.
I've done pretty well in the client meetings that I've been able to attend. I guess my frustration stems from working twice as hard as my peers to only get the same amount of credit. I'm the first one in and last one out (the MD's see this) and have consistently received great feedback on my work. When I do make mistakes, it is magnified more so than my peers mistakes are. If I make a mistake, certain MD's come off as if they felt that I simply did not possess the knowledge to do what was asked, while if my peers make a mistake, the MD's come off as if they assume that the analyst just wasn't clear on what the MD wanted rather than the issue being a lack of knowledge.
While I understand that it does not take a rocket scientist to understand this industry, it appears as if I am doubted from the jump and presumed to be less competent than my peers are.
Sil On the one hand, I totally agree with your strategy. It would probably help out to learn a little bit more about football. On the other hand, I'm not in high school anymore....sorry I'm not going to pretend that I like something just because other people do.
Now, it is a good idea to be minimally conversant on football and as a banker you need to be able to talk with anyone about anything, but I think you just have to find your own niche. Another thing to think about is that hard core sports fans are a dime a dozen. Great you are connecting with the MD on SEC football - you and every other Tom, Dick, and Harry at the office....
Also, just an observation, but as I've met more management teams and bankers, I find that lots of them have really unexpected interests. I'm talking anything from opera to musicals to flying jets to surfing, and traveling to exotic places, all kinds of different stuff. The last thing lots of them want to do is talk about Ole Miss football. If your interests are a narrow range of SEC football, you might find yourself the odd man out in certain meetings.
I say just be yourself, work your ass off, and if that's not good enough for them, fine. The answer is simple: move onto somewhere else.
Part of being a socially capable human being is finding common ground in order to make a personal connection. If literally everyone in your office cares about college football, as Sil said, it might not be a bad idea to brush up on it Monday morning so you are in on the discussion.
As someone working in real estate whose dad did not work in real estate, I understand what you are talking about entirely. I regularly feel like everyone else my age got gifted their opportunity while I had to work my ass off. That's pure egoism though. The reality is that while it was harder for me, the people with connections still had to work, still have to deliver, and they deal with their own problems. If the MDs have favorites, deal with it. Get better. Deliver better. Focus more on what you can control, not what you can't.
If you've literally talked to your manager about this and he literally said you do great work and fit in with the team, you are definitely blowing this out of proportion.
Nepotism exists, and it's something you have to deal with. If I could only feed one person, do you think I'm feeding someone I know/enjoy being around or someone I don't know.
Just try your hardest to do good work and fit in. An important thing to remember is that you can only go on far based strictly on knowledge. Kinda like Dan Ariely said about playing in the NBA, height is basically a requirement, but the tallest player isn't necessarily the best player.
Favoritism / Nepotism exists everywhere. Even for summer analysts, you see certain kids get groomed by senior team members for pathetic reasons like: the MD doesn't want this dumbass kid to be an embarrassment to the ivy he/she came from.
That said, you need to learn how to deal with it. This can come in two forms: (1) learn to adapt or (2) move on. You can always find ways to "connect" with people whether it's genuine or artificial. If this either proves to be ineffective or you're not one of those people who enjoy this form of BS, then move to option (2).
The whole reason why "culture/fit" is a part of interviews is so that team members can figure out whether you can eventually fit in with the rest of the team. That said, if things don't work out at your firm and you are a technical protege sent from heaven, then go join a different firm. Best of luck!
Let me tell you how you can deal with nepotism, favoritism or cronyism in the work place: you deal with it or you leave. Take it from my personal experience, people will choose personal relationships over their professional responsibilities 90%+ of the time. You will, way more often than not, lose out on jobs if people in positions of power have friends that want those jobs. If you're at an employer that lacks nepotism policies and has a child of a founder, etc. working there, they will get all of the jobs they want. Look at the Trumps.
You go with the flow or the flow goes without you.
You can try to force yourself to fit into a culture you don't think you fit into -- but honestly, you'll probably never win. There are a ton of different workplace cultures and not all revolve around being a southern frat bro, so go find one that is more your speed and go crush it there.
talk about chicks.
Ya - have also experienced this type of nepotism in Canada. Kids all went to UCC/Havergaal/etc. The sr's are all about ncaa basketball, golf and tennis. If you didn't play or follow sports the "fit" question becomes real.
Nepotism and prejudice runs rife in iB. Play the game or get out. I chose the latter.
Yeah. I left my old employer because of this type of stuff. I was saving them millions but all of the good jobs went to peoples' buddies or relatives. In fact, I was discouraged from saving millions because it made certain people look more incompetent/negligent (which they most certainly were). My hope is to some day get paid for making companies better, not punished.
Unfortunately that isn't possible everywhere.
This has been my experience as well at my current employer. In my view, in these types of companies if you're not in the "in" crowd you're swimming upstream, and even phenomenal work and overtime won't get you promoted. The decision maker will choose relationships over results every time, even to the detriment of the company and shareholders.
You should seriously consider the potential that you're thinking too hard. You're an analyst, and you feel like you're not getting the recognition you deserve despite receiving great reviews? I know that it feels like you should be the center of attention, but analysts are generally short term employees and thus replaceable.
It makes complete sense that an md who has a relationship with an analyst outside of work (i.e. His sons friend) will view that person as much more of a long term relationship.
If you're interested in an associate offer, you should express that desire and see what happens. Keep working hard and doing a good job.
Firm cultures vary, and finding one that works with you is important. If your current firm doesn't turn out to be that, then find another.
Favoritism is a funny term. The act of favoring one person over another? If you're better at your job, your boss favors you...
Clearly this thread is about your boss favoring you even if you aren't better at your job, or more specifically, being better at your job and not being favored.
Oh boy. A few points:
Senior people prioritizing people socially because of shared interests isn't nepotism. Agree with all the points here; just pick 1-2 teams to follow. You don't even have to watch the games, just read the highlights the next day. I'm not a sports fan either. When you're 30+ there are other ways to connect with senior folks but at 22-26 really sports is an easy in. There are plenty of non-URM (like me) who deal with the same thing. A lot of woman also have to overcome that bar. Things have been even harder for many of my gay friends, many of whom are not big into sports and they unfortunately also have to be careful when they talk about their dating/social life in a finance environment.
So, you work in a prestigious team where people have prestigious backgrounds that overlap with senior people from similar prestigious backgrounds. So what? You were hired for a reason, and the feedback you're getting is that your work is good. There are definitely occasions where people promoted based on favoritism but is that really whats going on here? Or are you just not connecting well with the team? Fit is definitely important for the promotion process, and if you're not as relaxed/comfortable etc as some of your peers that might be worth thinking about.
Nepotism would be - you get passed over for promotion in favor of someone who rolls in at 10 every day and consistently makes excuses for poor quality work but - they're banging your bosses daughter. It's not that your MD pops in to chat football with 2 guys in the next cube on a weekly basis. Really, it's on you to drive those connections. If you'll never be the sports guy, that's fine, try to find other things you're both interested in that you can connect on. I had a boss once who was super in to a volunteer organization, so I started tagging along to events. I had another who loved to talk about his kids, so I took a serious interest in what was going on in their lives. Both of those people would come over to chat, because I set a common ground for things we could talk about.
That being said, if you think you're being undervalued, looking elsewhere is in the cards; I don't think that your situation is unique to your firm though.
For context, I also came from a lower middle class background, I went to about as much of a non-target as you can imagine and I worked full time in undergrad. It took me some time to develop the social skills that are relatable in this sort of environment, but it's doable.
Nepotism (Originally Posted: 06/27/2012)
Hi guys,
I am currently an MBA student and am wondering if BB banks offer off-cycle internships in the Fall -- ideally the position would be for an associate level.
Also, I have a family relative who is vey well connected -- he was formerly a senior MD at BB and now works at a boutique firm. But he is supportive and has offered to get me an interview as many of his friends are also senior bankers.
Since I come from a non-target, my attention is more focused on networking then OCR.
Anyhow, my question is that should I approach my family relative and see if he can get me an off-cycle internship? If there is even such a thing.
Or should I just wait and ask him to get me an FT interview? If I am correct doesn't FT recruitment begin in the fall?
If anybody has any insights that would be appreciated.
Thanks.
bump^
Any guidance would be most appreciated.
Not in IB, so take this with a grain of salt, but If he's willing to give you a shot now, why would you wait? That way they will all know you pretty well come FT, and you'll have some experience under your belt.
Well, to clarify he has offered to get me a FT interview -- he hasn't mentioned anything about an off-cycle internship.
I am on really good terms with him, and so I thinking of asking him if he would help in getting me an off-cycle (fall) internship.
Last time I spoke with him, which was a little while ago, he mentioned his best friend just became a global co-head at a BB. So, I know he has good connections.
Nepotism: Keep It a Secret or Be Straight Forward? (Originally Posted: 12/11/2014)
If you got your current job/internship through someone you're related to or a family connection, is it better to keep quiet about it, or just be straight forward when asked how you broke in? I figure people are going to find out anyway. Especially at smaller firms. It's probably a bit easier to keep quiet at JPM or GS.
You've got bigger problems if people are coming up and asking you, so how did YOU break in?
Good point. Lol. It's just something I thought might come up because I'm 22 and went to a state school, whereas everyone else in the office is ivy league and/or has 20+ years IB/PE experience. The deal team is small and they don't usually bring on junior level people.
If it's through a connection then you say you networked your way in. Your family/friends of family is part of your network.
Forget about what someone thinks. How you got in doesn't matter. Just do you. Get your experience and do what you want with it.
Reaching Out to Family Members without Flexing Blatant Nepotism (Originally Posted: 09/14/2016)
My dad's first cousin's husband is an MD at an elite boutique and former vice chairman of a BB investment banking division. Other than that we have very little connection- any ideas for reaching out tastefully or if I should do it at all?
Some additional background: Last time I've met this dude was when I was 6 and obviously I had no awareness of the IB world I would be pursuing down the line. Also, my dad who is a closer connection, made the distasteful decision to try to network with him on my behalf at a relatives funeral, and it did not go incredibly well . I'm at a target school for the firm and have done solidly, so I'm really not trying to use blatant nepotism to weasel my way in- just looking for any advice if shooting him an email is a good idea.
I would just use your blatant nepotism to be honest. The industry is very tough to get into so if you happen to know anyone it never hurts to reach out. Just think, your small connection is more than most so don't waste your ever so slight leg up. At least he'll likely have to speak to you which isn't the case for all of the other people who email him.
Anti-Nepotism Clauses (Originally Posted: 03/09/2015)
I've heard of law firms with these, ie employees' close relatives cannot be employed by the firm. Are there any IBanks, AM/ER firms with such a policy? I wonder because getting a job feels like it would be much easier without the connected kids in the way.
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