Deferring job offer?

I received an BB analyst offer. I'm excited to start but also would really like to take a year off first, do some traveling, etc. Would it be acceptable to ask to defer my start date by a year? What's a valid reason to ask for deferring? Has anyone done this and how was the request received?

Thanks a bunch!

 

I think it wouldn't be a good idea. Have never heard of anyone doing it, though. I think it's not a good idea because if they have given you a job offer is not because they just WANT an extra person in the team; it's because they NEED a person in the team for next year. Therefore, if you defer the job offer they will have to give your offer to somebody else. You could argue, of course, that by deferring your offer they already have a person for 2011, etcetera. However, at least in my opinion, it won't look good. If I were your future MD I would think that you're just an immature kid that is not determined and passionate enough about investment banking and would regret having given you the offer in the first place. Other might think different, that's just my opinion. So if you ask if you can do it, be careful on how you ask the question.

 

Not a good idea. There were probably dozens of kids they could have picked over you, and there are dozens more who are willing to kill for your job. If you want to get some travel in you have a good month before you start.

 
km190:

More than likely they are not going to defer, so think opportunity cost.

Your earning potential at a bulge bracket investment bank is much higher than at a no-name startup. After banking you can easily use your skill-set to join a startup and contribute real value, and make much more money than if you dropped the banking stint.

Think smart.

I completely disagree with this.

As someone who has been through the process, you will be earning peanuts at a BB (measured in terms of the hours you put in). You should never consider the money (unless you've got student loans to pay off) when you are young, you should go to the place where you will be learning the most.

And you will not be contributing "real value" to a start-up, since you will be correcting spelling errors in pitch books and formatting errors in excel 99% of the time. You will get good transaction exposure, but trust me that's miles away from the skill-sets required for a successful start-up (e.g. bootstrap marketing, basic coding).

My only caveat is that it is very risky. If you go down the start-up route (viewed as unconventional by BB recruiters), you're basically kissing your IB career along with all the conventional exit options PE, HF (except VC) good-bye. And you probably won't get in even with a top MBA (I know some friends who tried to do this), that "unconventional" label sticks with you.

So you should think carefully about the risks and rewards. Do your market research, what is the size of the market your start-up is targeting, how mature is it, what are the chances of you making it big (bear in mind 300k funding is peanuts, you need at least $50 million in funding to be one of the competitors gunning for that ultimate IPO), and do you have the necessary skill-set to out-compete all the other competitors? And if it fails, are you willing to keep trying until you succeed?

 

Your bank will not give you the 1-year defer, I can almost guarantee you that. It's a BB - they have TONS of eager-eyed, talented candidates that would take your spot in a heartbeat. Make your decision wisely (I don't think one is necessarily better than the other), but know that you close the door temporarily on whichever one you don't take.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

hahaha, no way.

"hi, thanks for the job offer, but i'd like to play my option on something better which i'd enjoy more, because honestly, banking doesn't sound too great, but i'll do it if i have to. is that okay?"

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

BB won't let you defer. This ain't college or grad school. That being said...

You summered with a BB, right? You developed a good rapport with your bosses, analysts/associates etc, right? I certainly hope that you did.

Forget HR. Go right to those people. If you are loving start-up life and find it interesting/engaging etc, then just do that. You're young, you have equity, got invited to be in an incubator, raised some seed money and you seem enthusiastic and biggest thing, YOU LIKE IT A LOT...

Approach the folks you summered with, and tactically explain your situation. You really liked them, the desk/work and everyone, but you are person number 3 or 4 (you don't need to be exact) in a startup, like the idea and the work/people and are STOKED to be helping run/develop a business in which you have equity. You don't know if it's going to work out, but hey no one can read the future right? Facebook was started in college, right? I have a feeling that, especially analysts/associates or VPs (and cooler MDs) will totally understand. In fact some of them may be jealous of you or wish you good luck. Heck, maybe they or their colleagues will be pitching to YOU one day.

Or the thing could go down the tube, but you will have learned a lot, actually helped run/start a business and hopefully build a big network of cool/interesting/hungry contacts/friends with interesting ideas. Plus you can fall back to the network of those folks you worked under that you summered with (KEEP IN TOUCH WITH THEM, like coffees, emails etc)....

I am not you and cannot tell you what to do. All I can say is, that very few people actually like/love their job and the people they work with, especially at BBs. Fewer people become big time millionaires/billionaires by working at some bank (I can't think of any in the latter - they may have started at a bank then went to do their own thing, like start a hedge fund or something). I don't know what the business you deal with is, but if it works out, your chances of making a LOT OF MONEY soars.

Good Luck

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 

If you really enjoy the start-up it shouldnt be a question whether you should stay or not. 99.5% chance that your life will suck and that you'll be thoroughly depressed, especially when comparing what you gave up. Yeah the $ will be nice, but that will only motivate you so far.

Honestly, if you could get an offer with a BB, you could get back into IB w/o much issue, whether its BB/MM or boutique - and for MBA apps, your story will be much better since it will be much more unique than any IB peer

Hugo
 

I would suggest choosing the less risky venture (BB). The only thing that you are missing out on if you go to the BB is the equity in the company. Sure, if this company becomes the next facebook you will feel like an idiot, but there is a high chance this startup will fail. Think of it this way, if you go to the BB and realize that you hate it you will only be more attractive to the startup as you will have financial experience that will prove useful to a young company. There will always be young startups looking to employ, but IB has a very specific window of opportunity that you would be a fool to not take advantage of. Best of luck.

 

Highly unlikely that they would let you defer. As @Oreos says, they would be giving you the option to take the role if you want, or else reneg if your start up works out - all upside for you. For them, they hold a place for you, then either they get you after a year (and you are a commodity, there are many others just as suitable for the role) or you reneg. Where's the upside for them?

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 

Fuck it, I'd probably go with the start up. Equity, big incubator, funding, and most importantly, you really love the work. Now is the time to try something risky and who knows, maybe it works out. It's obviously a decision that you and only you can make, but I'd probably play the hand and take the risk.

To answer your question: No, they won't defer your offer. It's take it or leave it usually.

 

It may depend on the company group and what their situation is like. I know of a girl who deferred for one year at MS in NYC (M&A). On the other hand, a friend wanted to defer GS for 2 years to do a Masters. At first they were fine with it, but then they rescinded his offer. But that may also just be Goldman. Just talk to them and be honest. They will tell you if it's acceptable or whether anyone else has done it. But they may also say that they need you right now, so be sure to phrase the questions correctly (after all, you do want to make them think that you are actually excited to work there).

 

I say as long as you graduate with a bachelors degree you should be fine.Verify with HR and talk with the group if you need to, but I don't think it will be a problem. When you bring it up I wouldn't mention anything about the divorce. I would tell them that "There are some issues going on with your family and would it affect your offer if you only graduated with a bachelors degree instead of a masters in 2012"

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 

Thank you very much for the reply gekko. I hope that will be ok. fingers crossed thanks again i really appreciate your reply...getting an offer revoked will be the last thing I want to happen

 

I know a number of people who have gotten deferrals based on research grants, time off, etc. That was, however, a few years ago when the market was much more robust. It will not hurt to discuss with them, don't play the offers off eachother to try to get the deferral. Tell them you are going to Africa for mission work, back it up with paperwork, and it might be possible.

--There are stupid questions, so think first.
 

One kid I knew tried to defer, and they wouldn't let him. So he took the year off anyway, came back and interviewed again and got rehired.

My instinct is that you're not worth that much to the bank as an analyst, so they could care less if you accept (there's 3 or 4 kids waiting in line behind you in limbo). Don't fool yourself into thinking you have more worth than you actually do to the banks. They want the best undergrads as analysts, but they also want kids with good attitudes. If you don't want it that badly, they'll just as soon give it to a slightly less qualified candidate that does.

By the way, the kid who they wouldn't let defer was also a summer in the group beforehand, so they knew who he was and how good he was (4.0 at a top tier Ivy).

 

Knew a couple of people that did this as well, of course - this was when the market was hot and they decided to do Teach For America, double major, volunteer overseas, etc.

No harm in asking the firm. You have nothing to lose if they say no - they're not going to rescind your offer just because you ask...

 

Whatever u do, don't work at the firm as a temp. during your yr off if u are in need of cash. A friend of mine interned at a BB during her junior summer, received a FT offer, then decided to get a master's, thus deferring for a yr. However, she needed some extra cash during senior yr summer and wanted to work for a month at the firm in another group. She couldn't do the job very well and her FT offer was rescinded.

 

Maybe you could just pass the job to a friend who wants/needs it and have them give it back to you in a year. You could call it a job swap.

Let me know if you don't have any friends.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Although I love the thought of CPH's comment, I don't see this ending well. Your best case scenario will probably be to reach out to HR and briefly let them know your situation and that you are going to have to pass on the opportunity - put an emphasis on the situation so that they know you aren't just going to a competitor,etc (it won't matter that much, but it's better than nothing).

Next, I would reach out to your contacts with the company and let them know you are not going to be taking the offer, but appreciate their time and hope to earn the opportunity next year after resolving your situation. Keep in touch with them throughout the year so that you may at least have a few allies as you reapply.

The last thing is: why are you trying to defer the offer? I am assuming that you will not be graduating on time for some reason (outside of poor grades), and as a result, will need one more semester of something. If, however, you will have already graduated and have a different reason, you may have a more difficult time since, when you reapply, you will no longer be a senior.

IBanker www.BankonBanking.com [email protected] Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking

 

Much thanks for the responses. For clarification, this is a future hypothetical; I'm only a rising sophomore. But I've always wanted to travel the world a bit and study abroad after graduation, maybe get a one-year masters in finance at Oxbridge/LSE/etc. However, I'd much rather start my career in NYC than London or HK, and since Wall Street firms don't recruit on international campuses, this creates sort of a dilemma. I really want to go abroad and explore for a year, but on the other hand, I realize that NYC is the best place to launch your career.

Array
 

A fellow SA had the same itch and was able to to pull it off. Here is how he went about it, he interned in summer 07' receiving an offer at the end of the summer. Instead of accepting the offer to start full-time in July 08' he opted to come back in summer 08' and intern again. He was able to receive another offer at the end of that summer and seeing as he had just graduated in June 08' he spent the year travelling the world and has just recently started training back in July with the rest of the 08' SA who received offers.

If your HR department allows you to swap the FT offer for an SA offer for the next summer and you're willing to accept the risk of not receiving an offer again then go for it. Personally, I wish I had done it and am extremely jealous of this kid, he saved a lot of his money from the the second internship and used it for travelling/partying in Asia and South America.

 

No, you don't just randomly shoot off emails about exploding offers to MDs. But contacting recruiters is common, who will then put you in touch with the right people if they decide to escalate it.

As far as "marketing" it around, there are a few ways to do this: 1) Cold call banks (RECRUITING/HR) and tell them you have an exploding offer from XYZ and want to know if there are any open, relevant positions than I can interview for on an accelerated basis. NOTE: This option doesn't work well in today's climate since many banks are cutting jobs and are unwilling to extend a competing offer. (I've tried extensively) 2) Try to extend the offer until end of October/November. Then try and land interviews, and during the interviews really leverage the fact that you interned at a BB, did a great job, and received a FT offer exploding soon. This is impressive to interviewers.

There are a few caveats in extending the offer. Note, many BB's will try to trick you in the initial deadline they give you. For example, when I got the call after this summer, they told me I must decide "within 3 weeks". But after reading the hard offer letter, I noticed it said "3 weeks OR your schools deadline policy, whichever is later". Turns out my school has a deadline policy in place ending October 28, so I contacted my BB and got my deadline extended until then.

 

No problem.

As to your question, it's personal preference. 99% of the time they will ask what other firms you are considering, explicitly. Use your best judgement -- if your offer is from a very branded firm, then I'd say mention it (what I do) because, again, it seems impressive at first glance.

Also, it's a question of timing. If your offer expires before the last round at another BB is scheduled, then mention it beforehand so that they understand that you have a deadline and need the interview process to be accelerated. You'd be surprised how far they will be willing to go to accommodate you.

However, do NOT say you have an offer from XYZ if you have already rejected it. The best card to play is to delay the offer and then leverage it in your interviews. It's also very helpful to have multiple offers when negotiating the terms for both.

 

Anonyfb, I'm going to be a similar position as you and therefore also interested. When I was recently made an offer there were several start dates (up to 18 months apart) with the same starting base salary. Is it automatically adjusted to the correct base for the date you start on or is it in effect a premium you are paying for deferring your offer?

 

You may end up with the salary increase anyway. Depending how it works at your firm, analysts may not get salary increases except to stay in lockstep with new hires until they get a promotion. Otherwise, 1st year analysts would have a higher base than 2nd years, which obviously doesn't make sense. I'd do some digging into that before I called HR.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
 
petergibbons:
You may end up with the salary increase anyway. Depending how it works at your firm, analysts may not get salary increases except to stay in lockstep with new hires until they get a promotion. Otherwise, 1st year analysts would have a higher base than 2nd years, which obviously doesn't make sense. I'd do some digging into that before I called HR.

But it is something that I should be proactive about, right, if I'm not sure whether or not HR is going to catch on...

 

I'm not sure about that...HR isn't exactly dumb. You're not exactly going to ingratiate yourself by asking about comp in the wrong way before you work a day for them. If you're really not sure and worried about it now, then you can ask, but do it right.

When are you starting? I'd do it relatively close to when you start (like a few weeks out, not months away when it's irrelevant)

Maybe frame it like "Are there any changes to compensation, benefits or policies I should be aware of that changed in the past year?" Rather than "I heard the 2011 hires are getting 70 K and my offer letter said 65. I'm getting 70, right?"

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
 

^^ yep. The MBB offers that my buddies and I signed all said that your compensation is subject to change if you don't start work within about 15 months of signing (i.e. if you defer your offer); none of us are deferring, but I'm 99% sure that that means you get paid the same as whichever class you come in with.

One of those lights, slightly brighter than the rest, will be my wingtip passing over.
 

2x2Matrix, But say out of you and your buddies one of you (A) starts in 2 months and the other (B) in 14 months then neither of you have deferred but you are still starting a year apart. Would you both get $X in your first year and therefore A is relatively better off or would B get $X adjusted for inflation?

 

Hey astro, I should have given some actual examples of dates. The date 15 months after signing is early in the year AFTER you sign (i.e. if you sign in December 2009, your compensation is subject to change if you start after March 2010), but that final 15ish-months-later date in the next calendar year is the same for everyone, regardless of when you actually submit your signed offer.

However, in the above scenario, the first available date to start work would be in April/May 2009 or something, so I don't think you could actually start 12 full months apart. I don't really have any insight into why they write their offers the way they do, but I think they do this to avoid the situation that you described. The range within which your compensation offer applies is the date range for the particular class that you're joining; if you start outside of that range, you're part of a different class and your comp is subject to change.

But a disclaimer: all of this was spelled out in writing in the offers that I've seen, and I'm only sharing it because I'm assuming that the other elite consulting firms operate in a similar way. If your offer didn't mention anything like this -- and even if it did -- you should definitely not assume anything and ask the way petergibbons described above.

One of those lights, slightly brighter than the rest, will be my wingtip passing over.
 

I deferred a M/B/B offer for two years, and they sent me an updated offer letter with the new terms (higher base) in November the year before I was planning on returning.

My understanding was that even if I had deferred for one year (and they bumped up starting salary while I deferred) that I would have received the higher starting salary.

 

Take the offer. You can always do the degree later if you want it.

To answer your question in the event you choose to do the degree - it sounds like you want to work elsewhere but would like this as a safety net. The bank will see this, and I would be truly stunned if they let you defer, work elsewhere for a summer and come back.- if you do what you are saying you want to, you'll lose this offer. Don't want to sound rude (and I mean no offence) but you are not irreplaceable and they'll just hire someone else willing to start versus leaving an offer waiting for you for 2 years.

 

Thanks for the reply everyone.

I've wanted to do a masters for a whole now and I'm pretty set on this decision.

@notthehospitalER I agree with what you're saying but I just want to try something else so that I can maybe rule it out. I did enjoy IBD and think that out of all the areas I'm thinking of trying, it is the optimal one.

Does anyone have any input on what I could say to get around having to do another summer internship in the same area?

 

You can tell them you want to try work in another business area...maybe they will move you around to another business unit if they liked you enough to make you an offer. However, if you don't want to work with the firm, you're almost certainly going to lose the offer and won't have it as a safety net.

 

What is the masters in and what is the goal of it? If it's in an academic pursuit and you want to end up doing research or get a PhD that makes sense, if it's in business and you want to leverage it to get a good gig then you are misguided.

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..
 

An ounce of work experience is worth more than a pound of education. One year working at that firm is worth more than your Masters and PhD combined... oh and you don't have to pay to work at that firm.

Unless you've got a trust fund and were popping bottles as you wrote that incredibly misguided post.. it is in fact misguided and you need to grow the fuck up and take the damn job.

 

I'm quite surprised at the responses here since I know plenty of people who have done this. Mainly to defer full time employment as much as possible and enjoy young life as student. Might be a cultural thing since people in EU don't back to B-schools for a "break".

I think it all depends on how confident you are of yourself of landing a job when you are actually ready for it.

 

I frankly can't imagine a job deferring at this point. If I made a kid an offer and he wanted to delay to hang out in school more I'd yank the offer and not extend another one in the near future.

School to learn and get a job, not hide out for years on end. Nothing like butt fucking your parents also.

Time to be a man, earn a paycheck and stand on your own two feet.

 

Don't ask - see if you can get some pain relievers and shots to make it across to complete paperwork. Try everything before asking for an extension, because the likelihood of them giving it to you is slim to none.

 

Thanks for your answers. I will talk to my MD tomorrow and ask him for advice too. Then I will talk to HR and see what my options are. If they cannot extend the offer, I will go against the doctor's advice and as you said, get my career started

 

Just want to let everyone know that they accepted to extend the offer by one year or 6 months, up to me. I have not decided yet, but at least they gave me the choice.

 

Starting midyear as a first year analyst would be tough because you'll end up missing all of training + half a year of work vs. your peers, who you'll get compared to (fair or not), and it's generally just an awkward spot to be in.

 

Different industry, but I would talk about it with HR and be honest with them. Receiving an offer means they want you, and they might be more willing than you think to accommodate.

 

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