one year masters programs (in usa) for "associate" level positions???

AnthonyD1982:

This has been discussed before. No, you will come in as an analyst. Topic done with.

Not true, I know people who have done these programs with a few years of experience that are coming in at the associate level. A buddy of mine is starting as a post-MBA (associate) hire with a solid MM out of a MSF program.

AnthonyD1982:

This has been discussed before. No, you will come in as an analyst. Topic done with.

correct me if i'm wrong, other than MBA, I think people straight out from JD may also apply for associates?

Masters in ANYTHING simply puts you to analyst position, regardless of your work experience background, UNLESS you've had a few years of working in the industry before

bcbunker1:

I am in a master in finance program at an ivy and everyone in my cohort with work experience got an associate job- consulting, S&T, and IB. The ones without work experience got analyst level and had an easier time finding jobs because they could steal the position from undergrads.

yeah, too bad they paid twice as much as what undergrads did

bcbunker1:

what do you mean "paid twice as much as undegrads"? The tuition is the same (roughly). I actually got a half scholarship so I ended up paying half of what undergrads did.

you're a special case then, i was talking about on a normal basis, people would rather prefer to jump into MBA and start off as an associate

also, maybe some undergrads also received scholarships and paid half the cost as their peers to get the analyst positions

bcbunker1:

I am not following your argument. What do you mean on a normal basis?

If you can graduate from my program for 70k (two years-no scholarship) and get an associate position why go to an MBA where you would pay more in tuition?

Personally, I think my degree is best for someone looking to go into S&T- I dont see much value in an MBA for S&T. And I obviously dont see much of a reason to go to my program if you are looking to go into consulting, although you can get associate roles coming out of it.

I probably didn't read clearly when you wrote being in a master in finance program at an ivy when I quoted you, which made you think that my comment was specifically directed at you personally. What I meant by "normal basis" was that the generalization of masters programs is supposed to cost more than bachelors. And so that by getting those two, masters + bachelors, can typically only get you a job as an analyst. I was comparing that as opposed to getting an MBA after a bachelor so can eventually start off as an associate which is more worth it in terms of economic value.

But of course, there are always exceptions to this if you can jump into associate with just bachelors + masters, but its just unusual from the people whom I've talked to.

[quote=bcbunker1]I can only speak to my program but heres my thoughts:

First off, I wouldnt say non-MBA masters have lower admission standards. My master in finance program has an average GMAT of 750 and probably around a 3.7 or 3.8 undergrad GPA. (my program also takes the GRE, with the average quantitative score 790/800. they dont post verbal on the website).

What Msf program are you talking about? Princeton?? MIT??

bcbunker1:

I think it depends on whether you have work experience, how highly regarded the masters degree is, and what area of finance you want to work in. I would think that MIT & Princeton would be the 2 master in finance degrees that could get you BB associate jobs (mostly in S&T) if you had work experience. You could also get a BB associate quant job coming out of MFEs. So an MBA is not the only way to get associate roles. Like I said, most people in my field (S&T) that I have spoken with said the MBA is worthless.

Yeah, I agree, MBA is sometimes overrated in a way, and ultimately, it all comes down to what you really want to do. I'm just considering to do MBA because it can cover a wider range of options available in case if my future career won't be with IB

Analyst

First year analyst.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

MBA is mandatory from what i have seen. Engineering grad school is easier to apply to than top MBA school

only for IB..not for trading or structured finance

It's possible but not very common. For example, I heard of Elevation Partners hiring people specifically from Stanford's MSE MS program who had BB banking internships as Associates. I think going to BB IB as an associate from this program would be a stretch, but a sales/trading job also seems possible.

Definitely possible and your exit oops might even be better. You could actually jump into quantitative roles.

you might have to start as an analyst. pre-2007 you could have come in as an associate. these days they'll only hire you as an analyst unless you had work experience in between your bachelor's and master's.

lol nice joke

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bcbunker1, can you explain a little more about your masters program.

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These are generally people who work for a few years and then go back to school, not people who do a 1 year masters directly after undergrad. I know that McKinsey only allows Masters candidates to be associates if it's been 4+ years since they got their undergrad degree. There may be exceptions, but they're extremely unusual.

I have a social science masters from harvard and 7 years experience in small business. Not sure if I can be hired as an associate or if I must apply to be an analyst. Any thoughts/experience would be helpful. Also, which banks would be best fit? Thanks

"Associate" at Bain refers to the lowest position...

..

I have a strong feeling the OP is simply referring to the M/B/B associate title. That's how you start out at Bain, there are no analyst titles to start at. The post MBA role at Bain is the Consultant title.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Nooooooooooooo.

No prior work experience = no

Could I get them to consider me for an associates position after 2 years without having to go back to school? Or would it be more likely for them to keep me on after the initial 2 years?

Also, would I be able to negotiate for a higher starting salary with this degree?

You should get a 5-10k boost in your starting salary for the MS degree, but don't expect to get consideration for associate positions. When I had an S&T internship while completing a dual BBA/MA, my annualized base was 5-10k higher than the other undergrads.

I have no idea as to whether the direct promotion route is easier with an additional degree.

I really doubt that - especially not in Europe. I am an MSF myself and will be joining as an analyst.

Typical flow is to an analyst position. If you have previous relevant work experience then you might be able to swing an associate role at a smaller place.

I disagree with Anthony. Are you saying the structure is analyst --> associate? Not in ER...

Yes, you will have the ability to get an associate position. Granted you will have to find an opening, get the interview, etc. Two associates I work with have a MSF from a non-target, and work at a very large bank. Your experience is also very relevant.

u were the guy who was so excited about becoming an associate out of UG right? I remember.. epic thread.

I dont think he cares about title and it therefore does not change a thing whether he will be called analyst or associate. What he cared about is whether he will start on the first base or on the second. Call it as u want. titles in this industry seem to be so overrated.

I agree with AnthonyD. Most larger banks would funnel you into the analyst position.

^^ Exactly. MM and boutique banks are typically associate ----> senior analyst. As for a BB, they tend to be more structured, with the path being entry-level analyst (sometimes called research assistant) -----> associate ------> junior analyst (covering small/mid cap stocks or a small set w/in the industry) ------> senior analyst. Every bank is different but I think the OP is asking which of those two first buckets he'll fall into and most likely it'll be the entry-level analyst one. You'd probably need an MBA from a top-tiered school to have a shot at an associate position, but I could be wrong.

My arrows were indicating that I agree with BluesHill's post fyi.

AWP you are correct really my main concern is the level at which someone with my background is expected to start at. The area I'm in is at best a medium-sized market with alot of state-partial employers (hiring managers are looking for their fellow Gators/Noles/Canes) not to mention a significant amount of talent from out east so I am attempting to determine how I stack up against this competitive pool of applicants and/or if we're even competing for the same positions or not.

You will likely start out in an entry level position unless it is for a smaller firm. Two years of ops and a non-target MSF isn't going to put you ahead of guys with 2+ years of on the job experience. Apply for both, you might get lucky.

If by Masters you mean MBA, there are already a few threads on this. If you mean MSc, read on.

In the short term, an MSc will give you a slightly better shot at getting the interview for a top job, but you won't start at a higher level than the BA/BSc graduates.

In the medium term it might help you take on more responsibility faster if the course is very relevent to your job.

However, bear in mind that an MSc is time and money that could be put to better use getting an MBA later on, which adds significantly more value. And if you already have a business/finance related MSc when you apply for the MBA, schools would question why you want to cover similar material again.

MSc programs which are the norm in Europe recruit for Analyst positions, just like Bachelor's Degrees in the US.

The vast majority of banks in their MBA recruiting also specify that candidates must possess at least 2 years experience. I personally know many people from my MBA who were not considered for Associate roles because they "only" had 3 (and in one case 4) years of experience.

It's not critical that you have banking experience, but you need to have good experience and THEN the MBA before you will be considered for an Associate.

P.S. This is typical. Please don't post your stories about the Wunderkind, who got his MBA when he was 8, and became an MD when he was 16.

hmmm. this is interesting. so for someone with 3 years relevant IB/buyside experience would another analyst stint at a competing firm or a buyside opportunity be appropriate before the move to associate or b-school?

I plan to do MSc in Statistics because I personally want to be educated to postgraduate level. When I'm finished I think it will be easy to get interviews for two reasons, (1) simply being more advanced than all the BSc/BA candidates, and (2) having had relevant summer work experience for 4 years (very few undergrads will have that much). If there's an MSc course that you're genuinely interested in I would suggest that you consider it very seriously...

It would help if i intended to apply for an analyst role, but I would need a Post-Graduate Masters in order to apply for an associate role... So I should do my BSc and then my MBA in Finance

I'm guessing that you're UK-based as I didn't think MSc's were available in the US...(though i'm probably wrong)

You can do an MSci in the UK as an Undergrad but the MSc is a postgrad degree.

However the Undergrad Master's in Statistics that you're talking about would be classified as an MMath. Also, it generally tends to follow the same course as a BA/BSc but has an extra year where you will do higher level courses and a research project.

Therefore you will definitely have a better chance of getting an analyst role but it will cost you 1 year to do it, and you still won't come out with a Post-grad Master's degree.

Then if you want to move onto an associate role, I'd guess you'd probably be expected to go to Business School to get a Post-Grad Masters.

Euromonkey said that Business Schools would question why you wanted to cover the same material...

But it depends how you intend your IB career to progress...

What uni do you intend to go to, and are you still doing your a-levels?

I think Alexey is right - if you want to apply for an associate role without having been an analyst, the MSc is not enough. You need years of experience + an MBA.

All I'm saying is that a postgraduate MSc taken in the UK immediately after your primary degree is not necessarily a mistake for someone aiming to apply for analyst roles. From what I understand it's actually quite common. It costs a year, but your chances of being taken on afterwards are significantly improved, especially if you've managed to land internships during the summers. Also the content of what you study might be a big help if it's related to the position you're applying for.

On the other hand, lots of people will prefer to jump in to the analyst position without hanging around in college for another year. For me it comes down to my interest in what I'm studying and how it will help me do my job after I graduate. It's a personal decision.

So you're saying that it is unable to make the move from a Degree>Masters>Associate without the two years as an analyst or years of some other sort of work experience?

It won't happen if you're into M&A/CorpFin work at a half-decent company.

I was at a career fair at LSE, this kid went to one of the heads at GS saying that he had a first (4.0gpa) two summers of IBD internships and was planning to do a MSc in Finance at LSE. He asked would that make him an associate. She said it would just make him a highly qualified Analyst.

You have to weigh the opportunity cost of doing masters. In the U.K it’s around £18,500 ($36,000 US) at the top places. Plus living costs in London ouch especially if you’re converting dollars. So unless you’ve exhausted all your options don’t do a Masters wait to do a MBA which is the respected degree that gets you the cake.

Hi anacot, on a side note, do you know is a first always equivalent to 4.0 gpa? I mean, there is a big difference between getting say 70%+ or 80%+ in UK exams. Thanks.