Delaying Graduation for Internship?

eyedea's picture
Rank: Senior Monkey | 82

I should be graduating this May; however IaEU(tm)m considering postponing my graduation until next fall in order to attempt to get a SA position next summer. I did a finance internship this summer at a Fortune 5 company (not a bank and not in corp fin.)Is this worth it? If I say IaEU(tm)m getting a double major as the reason for graduating a semester late, will banks consider me to be a competitive applicant? I go to a non-target, the only banks on campus are Sun Trust and BofA, both of which just do general recruiting and not specifically ib. So will my odds be better for SA recruiting or should I just graduate on time and go for a FT position? Any advice/guidance is appreciated.

Comments (151)

Aug 14, 2007

graduate. believe it or not, at some banks it is actually easier to get a full time position than get into the SA program, especially if you are from a non target. There are so many different opportunities out there, I wouldn't delay graduation.

Aug 14, 2007

thanks for the input. My logic is that since I have previous internship experience it'll be easier for me to get an SA position, but since I don't have previous ib intern exp. it'll be harder for me to get a FT offer.

Aug 15, 2007

i would just try for full time, let them know your situation, and see what happens

Aug 15, 2007

hmmm....I disagree with everyone out here so far....

Do FT recruiting this fall, if you don't get anything, then delay graduation is what I'd argue.

That way, if you get a FT offer, no time wasted.

If you dont get a FT offer, you should be able to swing an internship based off your previous experience.

Aug 15, 2007

The problem is that I would essentially be applying to the same banks. I can't apply for FT and then say how about SA if I get dinged.

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Aug 15, 2007
eyedea:

The problem is that I would essentially be applying to the same banks. I can't apply for FT and then say how about SA if I get dinged.

can we get some clarification on how well this works?

Aug 15, 2007
eyedea:

The problem is that I would essentially be applying to the same banks. I can't apply for FT and then say how about SA if I get dinged.

Can anyone shed some light on this situation please?

On the one hand, you'd probably look like an idiot for doing this. Then again, it might show that you want it really bad.

Aug 15, 2007

I'm just curious. In delaying graduation, can you pick up any additional degrees that could in some way be beneficial to you? I won't be graduating until Dec. 09', when I should be done in April of that year, because I am doing a Finance/Accounting double major.

If you can find something that would be worthwhile, you could probably swing it to banks in that manner and argue you felt you would be a better candidate by picking up an additional degree in something.

Aug 15, 2007

Yea i can pick up a double major. It won't be in accounting though. More like, marketing, management, and other state school business degrees. I guess I'll approach banks for SA and everyone else (Big 4, F 500)for FT.

Aug 15, 2007

It might work you could easily say "I wouldn't want to pass up any opportunity to work at X bank for xx reasons so could I apply for SA..."

They'll either think your determined and willing to do what it takes to get the job or just some desperate tool.

Aug 15, 2007

Yes.

Aug 15, 2007

hel ya!

Aug 15, 2007

Graduation is overrated. Do the internship.

Aug 15, 2007

Agree, if you have the internship in hand, take it

Aug 15, 2007

yes

Aug 15, 2007

Thank you all very much for your posts. I needed some backup on this topic

Aug 15, 2007

Bro

Delay graduation as long as financially possible. This is a no brainer, especially with a gig that will be a great experience

Aug 15, 2007

This is definitely an experience that most red-blooded American males would tell you is worth pushing graduation back a semester for.

Aug 15, 2007

Tamba Bay Buccaneers --> BB IB --> Bain Capital is practically tradition. Do it brother

Aug 15, 2007

Thanks for the feedback. I've grown up a football fan so this is definitely a great opportunity that can't pass up.

Aug 15, 2007

bump

Aug 15, 2007
Aug 15, 2007

Thanks Patrick, I had seen these. However, the difference is that these guys didn't have the stain of not having a return offer. To be specific, if I stay on would that give me a clean slate (which is not the case if I just do FT recruiting next month).

Aug 15, 2007

Is your concern the lack of an offer or that not many places are recruiting at your school?

Aug 15, 2007

Lack of offer. I am confident in my interviewing skills.

Aug 15, 2007

There aren't many companies but I wanted to see if I interview with the current juniors in January for SA positions(again), would I still be seen as the kid with no return offer, or would they see me as a much better candidate compared to juniors (most without any quality IB experience). Thanks.

Aug 15, 2007

If you think delaying grad by one semester will increase your chances to receive more interviews and offers, I would stay.

At the same time, if the hiring at your school hasn't diminished (relative to last fall, many more banks and PE firms are recruiting at my target), I would go ahead and sharpen your materials, networking, and interviewing and finish earlier.

The deal-breaker seems to be how you would spin your internship summer. Getting a full time job after no SA offer has been done several times before (of course in a better market when it was easier - knew people who didn't get a return to Lehman when it existed and got full-time at Goldman). Just make sure you have your story down. Good luck.

Chasing Consultants, Breaking Bankers
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

Aug 15, 2007

.

Aug 15, 2007

Thanks

Aug 15, 2007

People will understand that this is a tough environment.

You probably know best why you didn't get the offer, but here are some guidelines of what has worked in the past for my friends and others at my school (a top target).

  • Never say anything negative about your bank
  • Spin that you learned a lot and that it convinced you of your fit for the industry, but that you don't think it was a place where you could develop yourself professionally as well as at the firm you're interviewing at
  • Some times it comes down to bad luck (you didn't get along with your deal team but you did a good job - the people you work with may simply not have liked your personality). My friend was in this situation and mentioned that he could have been more accommodating to other personalities and been more helpful on the deal team.
  • Another friend didn't come from a finance background and he was competing with all Wharton/Stern types at GS - so obviously he was lacking in his financial knowledge. He mentioned in full time interviews that he learned a lot and now knows how to build models / understand financial statements so that he could perform the analyst level job very well.

Interviewers will understand your value proposition, just make sure you take whatever counted against you in your internship and show what you learned and that you know how you will do the job well at the bank you're interviewing for.

It is doable - good luck!

Chasing Consultants, Breaking Bankers
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

Aug 15, 2007

People will understand that this is a tough environment.

You probably know best why you didn't get the offer, but here are some guidelines of what has worked in the past for my friends and others at my school (a top target).

  • Never say anything negative about your bank
  • Spin that you learned a lot and that it convinced you of your fit for the industry, but that you don't think it was a place where you could develop yourself professionally as well as at the firm you're interviewing at
  • Some times it comes down to bad luck (you didn't get along with your deal team but you did a good job - the people you work with may simply not have liked your personality). My friend was in this situation and mentioned that he could have been more accommodating to other personalities and been more helpful on the deal team.
  • Another friend didn't come from a finance background and he was competing with all Wharton/Stern types at GS - so obviously he was lacking in his financial knowledge. He mentioned in full time interviews that he learned a lot and now knows how to build models / understand financial statements so that he could perform the analyst level job very well.

Interviewers will understand your value proposition, just make sure you take whatever counted against you in your internship and show what you learned and that you know how you will do the job well at the bank you're interviewing for.

It is doable - good luck!

Chasing Consultants, Breaking Bankers
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

Aug 15, 2007

Also, would suggest contacting some alums who work and interview at a few banks you aren't interested in applying to. Talk to them about your internship and explain the reasoning you will use to describe why you didn't get the full time offer. Ask those bankers and see what they think about how you can improve - would they buy what you say? That's the true test.

Chasing Consultants, Breaking Bankers
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

Aug 15, 2007
breakingbankers:

Also, would suggest contacting some alums who work and interview at a few banks you aren't interested in applying to. Talk to them about your internship and explain the reasoning you will use to describe why you didn't get the full time offer. Ask those bankers and see what they think about how you can improve - would they buy what you say? That's the true test.

Please do not do this. No networking contact wants to shore up your insecurity regarding not receiving a return offer.

As for delaying graduation, I think this is an absolutely terrible idea. Not only would you need to pay another semester of tuition, living, etc., but in the future when people look at your resume and see that it took you 5 years to graduate instead of 4, you'll find yourself fighting a new battle. The last thing you want to do is disadvantage yourself going into private equity interviews or applying to B-School.

~~~~~~~~~~~
CompBanker

Aug 15, 2007

.

Aug 15, 2007

I see where CompBanker is coming from - makes sense that some banker will see more weakness in your insecurity / not landing an offer, but some will be more understanding and can really help you out (some have been in your position before at some point). If you aren't comfortable doing that that's fine, but find someone else in the industry (a former member of one of your clubs even) and run your resume / story by them. There's no substitute for that kind of feedback.

Chasing Consultants, Breaking Bankers
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

Aug 15, 2007

I wouldn't delay it unless absolutely necessary, i.e. you have no offers at the end of fall full-time recruiting. Delaying graduation is not the end of the world, but you'd probably be better off not wasting a whole year to potentially get another internship.

Aug 15, 2007
models_and_bottles:

I wouldn't delay it unless absolutely necessary, i.e. you have no offers at the end of fall full-time recruiting. Delaying graduation is not the end of the world, but you'd probably be better off not wasting a whole year to potentially get another internship.

What if the SA was at a prestigious place and you end up at a little known/average MM?

Aug 15, 2007

Was your SA at a BB?

Aug 15, 2007

What if the SA was at a prestigious place and you end up at a little known/average MM?

I would think of this like an option. Take classes as if you were going to graduate on time and see how recruiting goes. If it doesn't go well and you don't get an acceptable offer then stick around and do another internship.

Only you know what is an "acceptable" offer is to you, but you can't be too greedy in this environment. Also keep in mind you may not get another top tier internship due to the no-offer, so you may already be limited to MM or regional. You don't want to waste another year expecting to get a badass internship only to find out that it won't happen. Best of luck

Aug 15, 2007

i dont think that they would find you from old applications, but yeah.. its risky, you shouldnt do it

Aug 15, 2007

Just be honest and tell your story. Explain how you weren't ready for banking junior year because you had only recently found out about it and explain how you're much better qualified now that you have spent a summer at a boutique. No shame in that story.

Aug 15, 2007

Delaying graduation for this is not a wise move. It is extremely competitive and you have no guarantees of landing an SA offer or converting it to FT.

Your school probably lets alumni use OCR for 1 year after graduation. I would just take A relevant job in financial services (valuation, corporate/commercial banking, F500 FLDP) and reapply next year. Also stay in touch with the connections you developed from your internship, they may be hiring next year. I would definitely take a good non-banking job and continue networking/using ocr. You have no guarantees of getting an offer if you delay graduation and its a dumb move from a TVM/opportunity cost perspective.

If you decide to delay there is nothing wrong with answering you already applied. You can always say you picked up another minor or really wanted to take certain classes that you feel would benefit you down the road if the question comes up.

Aug 15, 2007

You could probably get into a top MSF program.

Aug 15, 2007

If I were you, I would be honest and said that I applied last year. The reason being that they would not check your background that closely until later in the recruitment process. Whether you get placed into an interview is mostly based on your resume. When they go to do your background check, you must have already got their attention (hopefully get passed the first round of interviews) and you do not want to make them feel you lied when they begin to think you are an interesting candidate.

But delaying graduation is a risky move. Essentially you are paying another year of tuition for a hope of getting into banking. Given the market situation, the SA FT conversion rate is not high.

Aug 15, 2007

Thank you for all the replies!

I agree that lie about previous application is a risk that is not worth taking, so I am gonna take your advice not to lie about it, and simply explain my story if they happen to ask.

@BTbanker - thanks for the suggestion, but I don't plan to get a MSF degree at this moment. I will probably try it if SA doesn't work out this time.

@n1cktm - thanks for your analysis and suggestions. The truth is I really want to give it another try, otherwise I will definitely regret it. It won't cost much actually, because I am planning to take a gap year and work for a family friend's company.

@delphicfate - thanks a lot for your insights. I understand it is risky to delay graduation for only a SA position, but it won't cost much in my case, and I truly want to give it a last chance.

Aug 15, 2007

Best of luck, let us know how it goes. Make sure you are networking non-stop and building new contacts.

Aug 15, 2007

Good luck.

Aug 15, 2007

Try harder and find a job. Time wasted in graduation can be focused better towards FT recruitment.

Aug 15, 2007

Graduate, stop hiding in school. If you missed the boat, you missed the boat... There are other jobs.

Aug 15, 2007

Don't listen to the posters above. If you go to a semi-target and you are graduating in May 2016, I would delay and push graduation to December 2016. This allows you another shot to crush interviews (you will get looks because you have a BB on resume) and convert the SA to FT. Alternatively, delaying until December 2016 also allows you another very strong shot at FT recruiting in fall of 2016. This is because if you don't get an offer during your second SA internship, you would still potentially have 2 really solid SA experiences on the resume that will draw a lot of interest. The only way the above scenario makes sense though, is if you have a strong recruiting presence on campus.

Qualifier: I delayed graduation from May until December for just those reasons listed above, and was very fortunate to get a FT offer that way.

Aug 15, 2007

If I go through OCR again, would HR or alumni ding me if they recognize my name? Should I reach out now to explain my situation or just apply hoping to get interviews?

Aug 15, 2007

What situation would you explain to them though? That you didn't get any offers so you want to do SA recruiting again? I don't know how effective that would be.

Aug 15, 2007

I disagree with ArcherVice. It isn't unreasonable to shunt graduation off to improve your employment prospects.

Do one of three things:
a) pick up a minor or major that requires you to stay on campus an additional 1-2 terms
b) drop your enrollment status to half-time for your senior fall, senior spring, and supersenior fall terms
c) do not register for spring classes, thus taking your eighth semester during your ninth calendar semester

With the first, it's an easy explanation to anyone who knows you already. Either shoot straight and say that you changed your course of study and as a result your graduation is later, or, twist it and say that you had anticipated graduating early (May 2016) but have now chosen to stay on campus now and have the option of taking a summer position. This strategy also works for the second option (do not explain that you're now half-time, simply say that your course has changed).

With the last, you can say that you have extenuating family or personal circumstances and will now not graduate until 2017 (say January or May, your preference). This is the most cost-effective option as it doesn't increase your tuition bill.

You'd be surprised how many people do this. Summer classes always have a handful of people who are 1-2 years older than their colleagues and some will not hesitate to explain how or why that's the case. It ends up working out great; if you get the return offer, you have a tenth semester without class and can either stay on campus as a supersenior god among mortals, take a semester abroad through a formal program, or simply travel the country/world with your free six months.

Aug 15, 2007

I took this exact route and I'm not sure it worked out any better than graduating would have been. I interned at a large MM bank in Equity Research, decided it wasn't for me. Pushed graduation a semester (was already a double major so it was an easy move, just went from taking 18 credits to taking 12). Ended up getting a crack at recruiting and pretty much got all the interviews I could have asked for. Ended up accepting a MM offer and couldn't be happier after the internship/receiving a return offer. But, in all honesty I probably could've landed a similar role without having pushed graduation. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more details.

Aug 15, 2007

Are you at a target? If not you might want to apply to top MSFs or MiMs.

Aug 15, 2007

Your first job is your first job; that's it. Take what you can get and start getting some experience in something. Whether it's at a small IB shop or some firm that needs an immediate hire, I think it's much better to get out of school and start working. Yes, the path of getting your dream job will be less straight-forward, but you can get there if you continue networking and pushing forward.

Don't blow your brains out because you didn't get an offer for a BB IBD Analyst class.

    • 1
Aug 15, 2007

I've prolonged mine (graduate in December.) It did give me the opportunity to complete an additional 2 internships and round my resume out nicely, but it sucks not making $ right now, when a lot of my friends are raking it in. If you do prolong it, have great reason to do so and have a structured plan. You also run the risk of not securing an offer to start in December when you graduate, but there can be fun times to be had.

My advice: if you have a strong resume right now, just graduate on time, and get an MsF or start working. $ beats school any day of the week, and a year long MsF would do you much better than 1 more semester of UG.

Aug 15, 2007
droking7:

I've prolonged mine (graduate in December.) It did give me the opportunity to complete an additional 2 internships and round my resume out nicely, but it sucks not making $ right now, when a lot of my friends are raking it in. If you do prolong it, have great reason to do so and have a structured plan. You also run the risk of not securing an offer to start in December when you graduate, but there can be fun times to be had.

My advice: if you have a strong resume right now, just graduate on time, and get an MsF or start working. $ beats school any day of the week, and a year long MsF would do you much better than 1 more semester of UG.

Raking it in? Lol the average salary post UG is around 50k. I'll even give your friends the benefit of the doubt and assume they're making 60k. Go get an apartment, go lease a car, go buy insurance, food, gas, and go out Friday/Saturday and then please, tell me how they're absolutely "raking it in".

Stay in school, get your shit together, and get the best job possible. You're not missing anything.

    • 1
Aug 15, 2007

^You're missing the point. If he is delaying graduation so he can hopefully take advantage of FT recruiting, he prob isn't the best candidate (no offense - just making my point here), and instead of another semester of UG, he could get an Msf by taking 1 more year of school, and set himself up much better.

And when you go from making 0 money, to making 50K, ya, that's raking it in. I also don't live in a NYC or SF so 50k goes pretty damn far, if you're not a dumbass with your spending. And to further my point, I pay for all the expenses you listed minus a car while in school. So again, making 50k would be raking it in for me haha.

Aug 15, 2007

I did this more than once. I was unsure the times I did this because of figuring out how to pay for school along with going through recruiting again. Fortunately, it worked out tremendously both times (landing solid SA roles including a IB SA), but I would say each circumstance is different for each individual.

Aug 15, 2007

It's important that you sit down and figure out exactly why you did not get the positions you were interested in. Delaying a semester or a year can be an effective tactic, but only if you have room to make yourself an outstanding candidate.

A little about myself, I stalled a year and transferred into my schools integrated masters program in hope of having another chance to recruit for summer spots. The previous winter I had fallen flat during recruitment for major IBD roles and I wanted another crack at it. In the end, I was successful because I had room to greatly improve myself. When I went through the process the first time I was little more than a high GPA and a PWM internship. Compared to the kids at my school who successfully get IBD roles, my resume was weak and my interviewing skills were not strong enough to make up for my shortcomings on paper. So, I took another year, I took leadership roles in clubs, I spent a year interning at a small M&A boutique and prepared feverishly for interviews and it worked out. Now I'm sitting here in my last year relaxing because I have a position at top BB after graduation and I could not be happier with my decision. But, it is important to point out that I was successful because I had the opportunity to really improve myself and improve my profile - if this isn't the case, then it might be best for you to just get the best job you can and start working your butt off.

Aug 15, 2007

Friend of mine delayed graduation to land an SA gig, worked out for him. Also know someone that delayed graduation and didn't land an internship (had a fairly low GPA though). Personally, I would go for it.

Aug 15, 2007

I have never heard of anyone who got an SA interview after screwing up their FT interview. What I have seen happen is this:

1. Strike out on FT interviews, extend graduation, and pick-up a SA internship at a different non-ocr firm.
2. Try again FT in the fall.

Aug 15, 2007

Bump.

I just started my 4th year at a target and am thinking about possibly taking another semester to do a SA. While I could (though it would be tough) and would prefer to graduate on time this year, I want to have the chance to do a SA if I can't get a FT offer.

My question is this: Would it look bad if I interview for FT, get turned down, then apply again for a SA position the same year at the same bank?

Aug 15, 2007

I'm in the exact situation right now...I'd love to hear what people say

Aug 15, 2007

I personally know of a couple friends who took things slower in college and graduated in 5 years, yet got BB S&T and IB positions. They actually landed their SA positions during that "extra" summer. If you can afford the extra money (both spending on tuition and the income lost by being at school instead of working during that period), I don't see it as a negative. Just make sure that extra time spent in school gets you an SA offer (and in the case you don't, hopefully the extra classes allowed you to boost your GPA).

Aug 15, 2007

I second Chim Chim's motion. As long as there is an added value with staying a little longer (like gaining the accounting experience) than its worth a shot...the likelihood of breaking into IB without a summer internship is so slim right now.

Aug 15, 2007

so I'm in the same basic situation as "sa09" (doin a pwm internship at a bb in nyc this summer). Ideally I'd like to not go through another year of school. Therefore I'd like to make the most of the next 2+ months that I will be in Nyc to hopefully help avoid that 5th year. What would everyone recommend doing while im here to help my chances of landing a full time S+T, IBD, or ER position for next fall. As far as networking and or getting as many information meetings as possible....

Aug 15, 2007
apple1634:

so I'm in the same basic situation as "sa09" (doin a pwm internship at a bb in nyc this summer). Ideally I'd like to not go through another year of school. Therefore I'd like to make the most of the next 2+ months that I will be in Nyc to hopefully help avoid that 5th year. What would everyone recommend doing while im here to help my chances of landing a full time S+T, IBD, or ER position for next fall. As far as networking and or getting as many information meetings as possible....

Here's the problem, most if not all interns at BBs who interned last summer and were offered FT positions are starting this summer. Thus if you intern this summer, and an offer is extended, they would probably be expecting you to start full time with your SA class next summer, so you can all train and start together. I don't know how realistic it will be for you to intern, get a FT position offered, and then you wait almost a year to start (since you don't want to continue school). If I were you, as soon as you start your internship, put it on you resume and use it for leverage to get a position at a boutique who might hire off-season (in your case--the fall) for full-time. This might be a stupid question, but when you interviewed, did you tell them you were going to finish this spring or are they under the impression you are going another year? If they know you are finished and still offered you a SA position, then I'm assuming they maybe have thought of a way to work you in FT for the fall if they extend you an offer.

Aug 15, 2007

Okk I think i might have been unclear sorry. Im a junior right now.. I'll be a senior this coming semester. I'm doing a PWM at a BB in nyc this summer. So I can def graduate this coming may (on-time). But I'm really determined to land a full-time job in IBD whether its at a BB or a boutique. Anyways I was saying that I could, if I had to stay for a 5th year and just get a double major in say, accounting so that I could hopefully get an IBD SA position in the summer between my 4th and 5th year. The reason I would do this would be because from what I've read a lot of firms (especially in these economic times) are really only hiring people that interned with them the summer before. Much less all the other reasons. I appreciate your responses though.

Aug 15, 2007
apple1634:

Okk I think i might have been unclear sorry. Im a junior right now.. I'll be a senior this coming semester. I'm doing a PWM at a BB in nyc this summer. So I can def graduate this coming may (on-time). But I'm really determined to land a full-time job in IBD whether its at a BB or a boutique. Anyways I was saying that I could, if I had to stay for a 5th year and just get a double major in say, accounting so that I could hopefully get an IBD SA position in the summer between my 4th and 5th year. The reason I would do this would be because from what I've read a lot of firms (especially in these economic times) are really only hiring people that interned with them the summer before. Much less all the other reasons. I appreciate your responses though.

..Ok..that makes sense. In that case, yes, I think an extra year will help if IBD is your goal. The optimal scenario for FT IBD in most cases is PWM internship Soph Summer, IB SA Junior Summer, followed by hopefully a full-time offer for the following summer. You just seem to be one year behind, but I don't think that will hinder you at all. A PWM internship at a BB should open a door for you to land a SA IBD offer (hopefully) at that same firm if you take another year of school.

Aug 15, 2007

but if i didnt take that extra year can i basically rule out getting a full time offer for ibd next year without that extra school year and ibd summer analyst position on my resume....again i will stress that i would glady work full-time for a boutique.

Aug 15, 2007
apple1634:

but if i didnt take that extra year can i basically rule out getting a full time offer for ibd next year without that extra school year and ibd summer analyst position on my resume....again i will stress that i would glady work full-time for a boutique.

I definitely would never rule anything out, you never know where networking might take you while you are interning and a BB PWM internship is still a BB internship which looks great on your resume. However, it is typically harder (and in this environment, a lot harder) to land a role for FT IBD without being an intern at that firm for IBD before, because these days the FT class is almost entirely taken from SAs. Why not apply for full-time boutique positions and BB SA positions at the same time in the Fall? Play the FT resume assuming you will graduate on time, and SA resume to assume you going a 5th year. If you get a boutique offer you graduate and start work. If no luck, you hopefully have a SA BB offer, go a 5th year, then get a FT position.

Aug 15, 2007

I'm always for doing that if you have that option and you can afford it, but that's just me...I would rather do that, than accept some job I don't want with the hopes of making the jump later.

Aug 15, 2007

I feel like it depends, if you're from a target school, sure but if not I think it would be wasteful.

Aug 15, 2007

you'd probably have better luck applying to some of goldman's non-summer internship programs which usually last a bit longer and are in less demand. you can do these after you graduate and then still apply for FT next fall. this way you don't look like a slapdick who couldn't graduate on time, and the firm would much rather have that kind of experience.

Aug 15, 2007
lone star state:

you'd probably have better luck applying to some of goldman's non-summer internship programs which usually last a bit longer and are in less demand. you can do these after you graduate and then still apply for FT next fall. this way you don't look like a slapdick who couldn't graduate on time, and the firm would much rather have that kind of experience.

Hahahaha slapdick.

Aug 15, 2007

I'm doing something like this. Instead of going to school next Fall, I'm taking the semester off to do a boutique internship in NYC. Then in the Spring, I'm going for SA positions because I feel like I can leverage the boutique for a decent SA easier than FT positions. For me, the cost of school won't be different. But, I'm spending money commuting to the city when the internship is unpaid. But I feel like that will pay off in the long run.

Aug 15, 2007

I am at a semi-target. banks definitely come and hire, but this year everything is so shitty I don't know how FT recruiting is going to go. Other than that I have no reason to think I won't get a job, as I have been networking all summer and feel like I am in a better position than a lot of others in my school (excluding SAs).

I had an internship this summer, although it wasn't IBD, it was related.

Just trying to weigh my options if FT doesn't come through for me. Luckily SA recruiting is after FT

Aug 15, 2007

bump

Aug 15, 2007

$10k is not a big deal in the long-run for another shot at recruiting, specially considering your only option is a boutique.

Did you network? If you didn't, it'd be easy to go through recruiting again and not even mention that you're delaying graduation. If you did network, it's a bit harder to spin and be like 'hey so I struck out last time, and I'm trying again.'

Aug 15, 2007

You're likely better off with an MSF or MiM. Getting one from a target program will serve to open up a lot of doors.

Aug 15, 2007

People around here seem to suggest it all the time... don't do it

I've worked at two BB's and never met an analyst who deferred graduation to get an offer. I met far more who deferred their start date.

Honestly, you're trading a year of your career to go into debt for a miniscule chance at banking (they didn't want you this year, why would that change next year...)

Grab a job, take the GMAT, wait two years, and go get an M7 MBA.

    • 1
Aug 15, 2007

Hmm, well... Wouldnt you have to pay for tuition and ish before the semester starts?

And Im not sure how that works when you can apply for jobs through ur career services, and then "drop out of school" for a semester. And im pretty sure you have like two-three weeks to drop classes, idk if that will give u enough time to get an interview/superday.. prob just to drop your resume

*****Why dont you just take a leave of absence, which i believe should still allow you to apply for SA's.****

Talk to your advisor before asking WSO lmao.

Holla, we want prenups.

Aug 15, 2007

leave of absence makes me not eligible for summer internships, that's what i was told at my career center.
dropping classes before the deadline will not incur charges for tuition.
i am wondering about the bank's perspective on this.
in the worst case scenario, i could simply keep a one-credit class and be considered a part-time student.
what do you guys think?

Aug 15, 2007

That would be your best bet if you dont mind paying the other fees: for newsprints and all that bs..

but you should probably talk to your advisor about how your school system works.. but worse comes worse just fork over some of that money and take a 1 credit course hahahah enjoy that senior year bro!!!

best of luck!

Aug 15, 2007

I don't think one credit hour lets you keep your status as "student/part-time student". At least for my school, you have to take at least 6 credit hours to be a part-time student.

Aug 15, 2007

if i were you i would take 3 creampuff courses to get the 12 or 13 minimum credit hours to maintain your status as a full-time student. if this is a good SA internship, then forking over the extra cash and effort will be well worth it.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

Aug 15, 2007

You should also check with individual recruiters at banks to see if they still consider you eligible for SA recruiting. It would suck to delay graduation in order to go through SA recruiting, then find out that you're not even eligible.

Aug 15, 2007

It seems like there have been several of these posts recently of people trying to delay graduation in order to do an SA spot

its a really bad idea

  • SA can be just as competitive as FT
  • no guarantee job market will be better in a year
  • you will get odd looks from employers who are certainly more interested in "traditional" candidates
  • its expensive

get out in the real world, get some $, a job and experience and go from there

Aug 15, 2007
deal_mkr:

It seems like there have been several of these posts recently of people trying to delay graduation in order to do an SA spot

its a really bad idea

  • SA can be just as competitive as FT
  • no guarantee job market will be better in a year
  • you will get odd looks from employers who are certainly more interested in "traditional" candidates
  • its expensive

get out in the real world, get some $, a job and experience and go from there

Completely disagree with this.

No one will know you're not a "traditional" candidate unless you tell them.

SA can be just as competitive as FT, but the idea is that as a senior staying back, you are better positioned than most juniors (in terms of experience, interview skills, etc.)

Aug 15, 2007

Why would employers have to know that you'd taken an extra year? If you do it to bring your GPA up or to gain more exposure, why is that an issue?

Aug 15, 2007

What do you guys think about delaying graduation for SA even if you get an internship? If, for example, you wind up with a (relatively) undesirable placement, it seems like you'd be able to leverage that experience (considering almost no "true juniors" have legit experience, even if it's with a second-rate shop) into a bad ass SA position the next year.

Aug 15, 2007

^^^ in my opinion, your first full-time employer is extremely important, as it sets the initial path of your career trajectory. a semester of tuition and a year of foregone salary will be insignificant in the long run. being able to say that: "i started my career at [prestigious name]" will stick with you for the rest of your career.

nowadays it's so common for people to stay in school for 5 years. if staying an extra semester will reasobaly improve your chances at landing the right gig out of school, then i say GO FOR IT.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

Aug 15, 2007

my buddy is delaying graduation in order to try himself one more time for the SA position

Aug 15, 2007

Is he going into his second junior year this recruiting season, or will he be next year? If this is his second, what happened last year?

Aug 15, 2007

Did this a few times (legit reasons eventually). I would talk with academic advisers, and, more so, other students who have done this.

Aug 15, 2007

Is it possible to go through FT recuiting in the fall and if you get no offers, begin internship recruiting late fall/spring? In that case, I guess you would need to state that you're adding the following fall semester on to be eligable. Only thing is, how would it look to try for FT and then for summer with the same set of banks and possibly even the same recruiters?

Aug 15, 2007

do what you gotta do

happy to give advice; no asking for referrals please

Aug 15, 2007

as long as you need my friend!

Aug 15, 2007

Similar boat and I think you have to first start with why you didn't make it through and get that FT offer. If you're sure its not a "you" issue and that it was more a function of an inability to get traction b/c of: brand name, unwillingness to take you seriously, already full analyst class etc. then I'd say delay. But if you're a senior I think you should delay by going through an MSF which will give you the opportunity to get another crack at interviews, but also give you a brand name and new network. Just thinking out loud here...

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Aug 15, 2007

First off, it was pretty senseless of you to decline an offer without anything else in hand, that is simply foolish.

To answer your question, delaying graduation isn't a dealbreaker. You can do this fairly easily. Simply write "Class of 2015" on your resume, or "01/2015" if you prefer listing the month to match the common format in the work experience section (mm/yyyy). As long as you aren't applying to a bank that you've already interviewed with in the past, you are fine. They aren't aware when you started college or how old you are; to them, you just look like a guy who got a BB internship as a sophomore and wants to move to a better firm.

You have a strong GPA, apparently go to a target (yet had no full-time OCR?), and have extracurriculars; this was a formula that got you a good job for this past summer. All you are doing is adding a strong brand name internship to the mix. That will only improve your chances. Again, as long you aren't applying to a firm where you networked with people (i.e. people reviewing resumes would go "Didn't this kid talk to me last year looking for a summer job?"), a graduation date change isn't a problem at all. They won't even be aware.

Aug 15, 2007

Also, if I were to apply for fulltime positions with a grad date of 5/09 and then apply for SA with a grad date of 1/2011, would hr look down upon that? WOuld they even know?

Aug 15, 2007

Honestly, I had the same problem, but settled on staying the course with graduating in may 2010. This is because the market is bad, but it's not that bad. Currently, the unemployment rate is at 9.7%, but that's the aggregate. For the college graduates category, the rate is at 2.8%. which is high, but not significantly high from the historical average rate of 2.0%. However, this rate could be higher for financial firms right now. Also, most firms have hiring processes that coincide with the academic year. Meaning that firms hire their bulk of 1st year analysts in the spring/summer session.

Just my two cents.

Aug 15, 2007

I'm actually doing exactly that, lol.

I also want to use my extra part-time semester and time after that before full-time to pursue a strong interest of mine that doesn't have to do with banking. But that's just an added benefit. Mainly I just want to try to boost my GPA as much as I can and use my previous summer work experience to try to get a SA offer.

Sorry I can't really tell you anything you don't already know or from the perspective of someone who's not in pretty much your exact shoes, lol. But the logic behind it made sense to me so I did it.

As long as you don't mind paying the extra tuition (not much for me part-time), and delaying working full-time for a real salary by one entire year (it sounds kind of crappy actually unless you're pretty risk-averse), I don't see why not.

Aug 15, 2007

i've been considering doing this as well. If i got a fulltime offer my last semester (fall) would i have to wait until the summer of the following year to start? This wouldn't be BB ibanking but either AM or ER which i hear is much less structured.

Aug 15, 2007

I am in a similar position except the only reason I am graduating late is because I took a six month internship therefore pushing back my graduation a semester. so instead of being a senior now I am still on my internship until December. So my senior year would start in Jan and I would graduate in late Dec or Jan. So this gives me another summer which I will obviously be taking an internship in.

If I do well and get a full time offer, would I start after I graduate? If I would have to wait until summer should I take on a minor and just take an extra semester of school?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Aug 15, 2007

I'm not alone lol

Anyone else have an opinion on this? Anyone know of someone who's been through this already?

Aug 15, 2007

I did it this year at BB in NY and got FT offer. If you do it, just make sure you work hard. It would suck pretty bad if you pushed graduation back and ended up in the same position 6 months later.

Aug 15, 2007

anyone else have any input on this?

Aug 15, 2007

1).2 GPA difference will not matter too much.
2)an ER internship would help if it comes with a real job offer at the end. keep in mind ER is hard to break into just because of the lack of positions. Also recruiting has started a while ago for summers so unless you're in a good t spot you're probably not getting a BB internship.

You need to access your chances at a MM. If it;s unlikely from your school, forget about it as 1 year boutique experience is a lot more valuable. in that case you want full time work not internship work, as that sets you up for lateral spots earlier.

so you can just go the boutique route but it's a painful and somewhat disheartening process as the standards can get pretty sketchy for some independent firms.

My gut intuition is just grab any job and shoot for business school. sucks but if you're bright you can do well at some of these f500s and actually enjoy your 20s instead of being locked behind a computer screen.

Aug 15, 2007

That's some great feedback. Anyone else have an opinion?

Aug 15, 2007

this link can help

http://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2013/09/12/advice-on-how-to-become-a-research-analyst/

couchy is correct about the GPA and job stuff

however since you are from a non target school ... why not give the CFA if you want to position yourself as someone good enough in finance and as someone who wants to focus in ER.. you have already participated in CFA's GIRC as you mentioned so i guess that somewhat positions you for ER.. CFA will be cheaper than grad school as well .. and then many years later go for an executive MBA

also check these links
http://www.businessinsider.com/getting-an-mba-better-than-getting-a-cfa-2013-5
http://www.businessinsider.com/mba-vs-cfa-2013-4
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/cfa-vs-masters-vs-both
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/professionaleducation/08/cfa-or-mba.asp

Aug 15, 2007

If your parents are loaded, it's always a good idea to stay in school as long as possible imo

Aug 15, 2007

If you want to work in finance, you need to delay. It's not going to be a particularly frothy market for FT hiring this year, and what few slots are open are going to be very well-contended for by all the qualified kids trying to move laterally within the bulge bracket (especially the poor bastards at UBS who got the news this week that their FT offers won't come before September, if at all) with a summer or two under their belt already.

Aug 15, 2007

PM me, I was in a similar situation (in terms of GPA, major, OCR, lack of networking, and career choices).

Out of curiosity, did you target your job search to Boston specifically (or is there a reason why you got significantly more interviews in Boston?) I'm in the area so if you happen to be around, hit me up and we can chat.

Currently: future psychiatrist (med school =P)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

Aug 15, 2007

so the op goes to warton

no one every says hypw lol

Aug 15, 2007
blastoise:

so the op goes to warton

no one every says hypw lol

I attend a non-HYPW Ivy and am going to be a senior this fall

Math majors and their attention to detail...

Aug 15, 2007

Shouldn't you delay the decision of whether to postpone graduation for a year until after you do FT recruiting in the fall? Yes, FT recruiting is hard, but that's no reason to act like it may not be a possibility.

Aug 15, 2007
CHItizen:

Shouldn't you delay the decision of whether to postpone graduation for a year until after you do FT recruiting in the fall? Yes, FT recruiting is hard, but that's no reason to act like it may not be a possibility.

the only issue i'd see with this is, i think the same people would interview for FT and SA, no? And they'll probably recognize your resume, wouldn't they?

Aug 15, 2007

Why not graduate and do a 1 year MSF program?

Aug 15, 2007

Thanks for the comments thus far everyone.

So to clarify a few points. I'm in a position to graduate with minimal debt but the extra semester I would be on the hook for. But again if this worked I think that is a fairly negligible amount in the long run.

I'm almost certain I would have no shot at any FT banking job thus I think my current plan is to maybe network a little with consulting firms to see if that works for FT this fall, otherwise delay. Of course I really need to etch out this plan now since I would need to start networking with banks for SAs now also.

Also I don't think an MSF is the right move for me given that I'd have to pay a whole year of tuition and don't think any US program would really have better OCR than the school I'm currently at (unless I could get into Princeton or MIT which seems unlikely).

Aug 15, 2007

@chicandtoughness chicandtoughness can you ping me? i am a senior graduating in may 2014 deabting whether or not to delay graduation. thus, i would love to chat with you.

Aug 15, 2007
riskpremium:

@chicandtoughness chicandtoughness can you ping me? i am a senior graduating in may 2014 deabting whether or not to delay graduation. thus, i would love to chat with you.

Sent you a PM.

Currently: future psychiatrist (med school =P)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

Aug 15, 2007
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