Depression had me out of the game

So, basically, for the last 5 months or so I've been dealing with a lot of personal issues, and during all this the last thing I wanted to do was dealing with the stress of finding an internship. Recognizing these issues and seeing a therapist weekly has helped. I've made a lot of improvement (I'm starting to feel GREAT again) in the past few weeks especially, but now that I'm looking for an internship for the summer (I'm a junior) I fear that I'm too late. I'm at a non-target, with a 3.8,and was an intern at MSSB last summer. I plan on reaching out to my network ASAP to get things done (professors, old boss, etc.) but was wondering if anyone else has any suggestions. Thanks guys.

Comments (304)

Feb 1, 2012

extend graduation by a year and turn back your clock.

ps don't kill yourself.

Feb 1, 2012
melvvvar:

extend graduation by a year and turn back your clock.

ps don't kill yourself.

Pick this one.

Feb 2, 2012

Your post should have said 'got a late start on finding an internship, 3.8 nontarget.' but you already said you were going to network and talking to people/alums which, as I am sure you know, is exactly what we would have told you to do.

Explain to me why you asked a question you already knew the answer to.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

    • 1
Feb 2, 2012
happypantsmcgee:

Your post should have said 'got a late start on finding an internship, 3.8 nontarget.' but you already said you were going to network and talking to people/alums which, as I am sure you know, is exactly what we would have told you to do.

Explain to me why you asked a question you already knew the answer to.

Sure, right after you explain to me why you enjoy being a pretentious prick.

To those others that kindly replied... do you guys seriously think taking a year off is my best option?

Feb 2, 2012

no they weren't serious when they said it the first time...

Sorry my comment made you sad...oh wait

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

    • 1
Feb 2, 2012

really surprised a therapist helped. wellbutrin is much better

Feb 2, 2012

extend your grad, begin networking

Feb 2, 2012

When you guys say "extend a year", do you mean add another semester's worth of credits, or simply taking time off?

Speaking of which, I'm all for taking a year off- if you can afford it. You could do so many things with that time off- become fluent in a foreign language, intern at a VC firm, bartend... the possibilities are limitless. A guy I know took a semester off to study Chinese. He ended up having more time to think about what he really wanted to do and focus on grades, and so when he came back he KILLED it. He's now working at a megafund.

Feb 3, 2012

Well, taking a year off is actually something I've considered. If I were to do this, you guys are saying I should take off the entire next school year?

Feb 3, 2012

Should've picked a better economy to get back in the game :)

Feb 3, 2012

I cannot comment on most of this, but I would imagine that your bosses probably would not see it, but that HR might. I know at my company (not a big bank for sure), that the insurance claims I file are confidential and that the reimbursements that I get (rather than them just covering it) are pretty anonymous.

Most important is that you are in the best of health, short and long term and it is critically important that you not only know that, but that you do not forget it. You would be shocked to see/hear how many people (plenty prominent) put their health on the backburner (mental and physical) in order to make a few more bucks.

In other words, when push comes to shove - Screw work.

Good Luck

Feb 3, 2012

I'm wishing you the best. Depression sucks.

mbavsmfin:

I don't wear watches bro. Because it's always MBA BALLER time!

Feb 3, 2012

I am not an expert.

As far as your medical records go, no one, bosses, HR or any other third party will have access to your medical records. Your insurance company records would just be billing codes based on diagnoses etc, not copies of the actual records. I don't know what HR sees, but I doubt they would have access to the billing codes unless it falls under a specific reimbursement plan and only for the purpose of verification, which would still be highly confidential if they did see it. Again, I am not an expert but I do know your confidentiality is highly protected in all medical matters. You should be able to find answers to all of your privacy questions here:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/

I don't know about the availability of therapists and psychiatrists in New York, but you aren't the only working professional with a busy schedule, it's probably a good bet there are practices aimed at catering to those schedules. Make sure to ask for referrals because doctors tend to know quite a few doctors in their fields and could probably line you up with someone with one of those practices.

Sorry to hear about your problems, but I'm glad you're confronting them head on and seeking help. Congrats on landing the full time offer as well.

Edit: You can also speak with your current therapist or psychiatrist and they'll be able to walk you through all of your privacy questions. It's also in your patient indoctrination paperwork where they discuss your privacy.

Feb 3, 2012

No one in your company will be able to see your medical records.

Unsure about weekends but you should not have an issue getting appointments later in the day, even as late as 8:30. Shouldn't be too hard to find a good one.

Feb 3, 2012

Congrats on the job.

HIPAA rules keep your information confidential so no one should see your records of seeing a therapist. And even if they did, lots of people see therapists-they would never know why you're seeing one. It could be something as simple as someone's parents got divorced and they need to talk to someone all the way to extreme psychosis and no one should be able to tell based on you seeing a therapist. Although if you were a narcissistic psychotic you should go into IB and you'd advance to MD really quickly...

Most insurance plans cover mental health so you should be covered.

I've never been in S&T but from what I understand the hours are more predictable than IB-i.e. you're not likely to have something dropped on your desk at 8 pm that needs to be done by the next AM-so you should be able to schedule regular appointments. And you're in NYC so I'd be willing to bet you can find therapists that have office hours late and on the weekends. You can get someone to deliver you an eggroll at 4 am. I'm sure you can find a therapist with office hours at 8 pm.

Good luck.

Feb 3, 2012

Sorry to hear that you've gone through all of that OP. But all props to you for trying to push through all of those LEGITIMATE problems that you have and get a good job and be successful. Many more bitch and moan about stupid stuff that they think are real issues (i've bitched about my own share), when there are others with deeper problems that just say fuck it and go out to tackle the world. Wish you the best of success with the new job and with working through your stuff.

Feb 3, 2012

Even if they did have access to these records (which they don't), you are far from the only one at your firm being treated for these same things.

Feb 3, 2012

Sorry to hear that, just wanted to wish you luck in getting better OP.

Feb 3, 2012

Congrats on the job. Sorry to hear about your situation.

I should probably point out that S&T may not be the best place for someone with mild anxiety issues. There are lots of other great FO roles but working as a trader (or a salesperson) requires a lot of confidence for it to be sustainable. How do you feel about that?

Not trying to dissuade you in any way- just giving you some time to think and plan.

Feb 3, 2012

Thanks for the well wishes, everyone - really appreciate it. Hoping to get back on track this year.

@"IlliniProgrammer", I'm not too worried about my anxiety in the context of S&T because of how it manifests and what aggravates it. Ironically enough, it might even help my job performance.

Feb 3, 2012

.

Feb 3, 2012

As most have pointed out, your medical records are kept private from everyone. But if you need to get help, you should not refrain from seeking help because you think others might find out man. Look out for your self first and foremost.

Continue working on your issues & trauma and things will start to work it self out in regards to your career etc.

Good luck!

Feb 3, 2012

Thanks everyone. I recently spent time as an involuntary inpatient at a hospital which put things in perspective. To anyone else going through this stuff: your career is important, but staying alive - if only for those who love you - is more important. Sacrifice your pride and get the help you need early.

Feb 3, 2012

Believe airlines because that's how they fund their fleets. Not in any of those industries though so could certainly be wrong

Feb 3, 2012

oops sorry I edited over the previous question. Airlines was the one and thank you!!

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

Are you saying you dread having a day off?

Why don't you watch a few football games and knock back a few cocktails while eating a ton of food like everyone else on Thanksgiving?

    • 1
Feb 3, 2012

I don't really watch football, but cocktails sound good....

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

Are you a girl? Come chill with me. I have netflix

    • 1
Best Response
Feb 3, 2012
undefined:

Are you a girl? Come chill with me. I have netflix

You're being micro-aggressive. Why do you only invite girls? Are you a sexist? Boys should be allowed to chill with you too.

I don't feel safe on WSO anymore.

    • 7
Feb 3, 2012

lol i got netflix too. I guess I am just jealous that everyone is eating turkey with their families and has an excuse not to respond to my emails, while I am still trying to work... And I don't want to show up at someone else's family party, because it would just remind me that I don't have family and they do... 11 hours more to go....

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

Where do you live? We can hulu and chill

Feb 3, 2012

I'm sure there are expats or whatever in your city that don't have local family. Otherwise, don't you have close friends that could invite you over / to their family's house?

Feb 3, 2012

See the thing with expats is that they still have family (doesn't matter how far they are). And going to friend's house feels like carrying an "adopt-me" sign...

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

you know restaurants have thanksgiving specials, right?... pretty decent too .. go with friends or go alone... nobody gives a shit if you eat alone in a restaurant... trust me..

watch netflix on your phone or iPad while you eat at a restaurant if you still fell the need to stare at a screen... use headphones... again.. trust me, nobody cares if you are eating alone or not...

Feb 3, 2012

Thanks. Yeah I don't mind going and eating alone, but isn't it worse seeing others at restaurants eating together with family or friends?
Family holidays just make me cringe... Does anyone share the same sentiment about family holidays?

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

holy shit, just found this article http://time.com/money/4127329/restaurant-free-than...
free thanksgiving dinner for lonely people lol

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

I've spent multiple holidays and birthdays solo because I've been traveling for work and it wasn't worth flying back to family. I would find the nicest restaurant I could, sit at the bar and order a gigantic steak with the least healthy sides possible, have a few cocktails and wine and go back to my hotel with a full belly and a good buzz. And before I was married I'd attempt my hardest to find a random female who was lonely and have gratuitous lonely holiday sex.

Also, if you get invited to someone's house for a holiday, go. Especially if you're an expat.

Feb 3, 2012

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxx

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

No, can't say I know that feel.

But if you're interested in some serious charity work, you could hit up the homeless shelters, churches, etc. They usually need volunteers during holidays for dinner events and such. Lots of homeless and (in general) lonely people are forced to spend their holidays alone, so it's a good cause if you can make the time. And it's nice, genuine CV fodder too.

    • 1
Feb 3, 2012

See the problem is that I'm not lonely, I just loathe family holidays BC all of my friends all the sudden go back home...

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

Sounds gay but it's hard for me to feel like shit when I look at all the things I'm grateful for

mbavsmfin:

I don't wear watches bro. Because it's always MBA BALLER time!

    • 1
Feb 3, 2012

Go to the expats house, and bring wine.

Feb 3, 2012

Lmao I'm drinking it already..

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Feb 3, 2012

Why don't you ask to join a friend and their family for Christmas? It's pretty common.

Feb 3, 2012

I feel like this chick is trolling you nerds, hard.

Feb 3, 2012
undefined:

I feel like this chick is trolling you nerds, hard.

I'm lonely sad and horny with no one to hold me on this cold, cold, thanksgiving so I'm just going to post about it on a forum of the highest earners I can find...

Give me a break.

Feb 3, 2012

OP, I feel the same as you. I hate the holidays. Nothing gets done between late November and early January, and I'm bored as f*ck. Been at my current job since September 2014 and I think this is the slowest that it's been since I started.

Feb 3, 2012

Actually, Stanford goes really really far to make sure this doesn't happen. I remember hearing reams and reams of material on this stuff during orientation. Pay attention to your classmates, be a good listener, if something is wrong please inform either an RA or the Bridge (student counselling ).
I don't know how useful any of this is, but I think Stanford has a really low suicide/depression rate. I remember making a crack freshman year "A B+?? Aight guys, can someone give me a lift to the Golden Gate Bridge." My RA actually had a 10 minute talk with me to make sure that I wasn't actually going to do anything stupid.

Feb 3, 2012
ltohang:

top schools like cornell (suicides) or harvard or uchicago. Anyone from an elite school wanna chime in?

subtle cornell trolling

    • 1
Feb 3, 2012
prospie:
ltohang:

top schools like cornell (suicides) or harvard or uchicago. Anyone from an elite school wanna chime in?

subtle cornell trolling

lol just saying the truth.

Feb 3, 2012

Not sure if it was common or not but I wanted to die every second of every day at Penn. Knew plenty of people who agreed with that sentiment.

Feb 3, 2012
BlackHat:

Not sure if it was common or not but I wanted to die every second of every day at Penn. Knew plenty of people who agreed with that sentiment.

I didn't attend Penn, but a top target in its own region. Had similar sentiment, but talked with the loved ones would definitely make you feel better.

The Auto Show

Feb 3, 2012
BlackHat:

Not sure if it was common or not but I wanted to die every second of every day at Penn. Knew plenty of people who agreed with that sentiment.

This would have been a really good thing to know BEFORE I sent in my Wharton app.

Feb 3, 2012

Not depressed enough to leave though; the schools with the top 25 freshmen retention rates are pretty much all the top universities/LACs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37246873/25...

Feb 3, 2012

I don't think you need a pscyh degree to understand why there "may be" a correlation between over-achieving (read: top universities) and depression. Fwiw, not having went to a top university may make it harder to find a job, but im 95% sure I would have lost my mind there- a give and take I suppose.

GBS

Feb 3, 2012

wharton was a breeze. Y'all are pussies

Feb 3, 2012

How can Wharton be that bad? Honestly....I get the school is competitive, but if you come out with decent grades you are going to be well off in life. I guess if you aren't in Greek life at Penn then there is no social aspect of college?

Edit: I apologize for insane bump--the other depression thread in monkeying around got me interested in the topic

Feb 3, 2012
Myron Gainz:

How can Wharton be that bad? Honestly....I get the school is competitive, but if you come out with decent grades you are going to be well off in life. I guess if you aren't in Greek life at Penn then there is no social aspect of college?

Edit: I apologize for insane bump--the other depression thread in monkeying around got me interested in the topic

I can't speak for Penn, but at my school (very large Midwest uni) I know that the social lives of non Greek men is probably 1/4th (if that) as active as Greek guys. But that's just because unless they have friends in a house they really have no place to go to party since most freshman/sophomores live on campus in dorms and you can't party there. Most probably don't know many of campus people who throw parties either.

I don't think I remember anyone talking to us about suicide either, maybe once or twice. The main focus is on preventing rape and STDs. The free clinic on campus is awesome.

Feb 3, 2012
StryfeDSP:
Myron Gainz:

How can Wharton be that bad? Honestly....I get the school is competitive, but if you come out with decent grades you are going to be well off in life. I guess if you aren't in Greek life at Penn then there is no social aspect of college?

Edit: I apologize for insane bump--the other depression thread in monkeying around got me interested in the topic

I can't speak for Penn, but at my school (very large Midwest uni) I know that the social lives of non Greek men is probably 1/4th (if that) as active as Greek guys. But that's just because unless they have friends in a house they really have no place to go to party since most freshman/sophomores live on campus in dorms and you can't party there. Most probably don't know many of campus people who throw parties either.

I don't think I remember anyone talking to us about suicide either, maybe once or twice. The main focus is on preventing rape and STDs. The free clinic on campus is awesome.

I am mirin brah. Yeah, I go to a large east-coast state school with an active Greek scene, and I would say that percentage is on par. To be honest, greek or non-greek you can find a party any night of the week(probably the same at your uni). Yea, I have never seen a clinic on depression, but have definitely seen them on rape/STDs. I guess when everyone around you is hyper-competitive, and the focus is 100% on grades/job prospects kids become depressed. Just speculation, of course.

Feb 3, 2012

Yeah, it's pretty fucking real. I was pretty involved with the support systems and such at my school. I'm not sure what the national average is but at some point there was a living group (greek, independent, etc - don't want to specify) at my school where half of the kids were involved with the mental health department. I'm sure a few of them were using the therapists as personal ritalin vending machines but still, that just can not be normal.

My personal theory is that a lot of these schools can be extremely insular and it's hard for the kids to get out and get some perspective. Depending on the groups and subcultures you are involved with, this can be better or worse. There's also a certain pervasive sense of disillusionment. Some students are smart enough to smoke all day and still ace their classes. Other students try to do the same and end up in more dire straits. It ends up being a situation where many people think they must appear smart.

IMO, the schools are actually in a bit of an awkward position when it comes to what to do about it. Most students are legally adults and it's not really the school's responsibility - or right - to follow up with them constantly if they don't want it. At the same time, colleges catch a lot of flack for not doing so hence they try and put in support systems. BUT, given all the medical privacy laws, information can't really be passed to individuals in the support system unless they are physicians in a need-to-know situation and so students end up falling through the cracks all the time. You end up with this incredibly inefficient system where some student gets committed overnight for observation due to an offhand remark and another student attempts suicide multiple times and finally succeeds because they couldn't tell his RA what was going on and they couldn't make him take a leave of absence because he wasn't failing his classes.

Feb 3, 2012
AstonMartin:

wharton was a breeze. Y'all are pussies

Agreed. I would also add that Wharton made it 10x easier for me to get to where I am now compared to equally talented peers at schools like Columbia, Princeton, etc.

Feb 3, 2012

Keep your head up man

Feb 3, 2012

Have you considered barber college?

Feb 3, 2012

i suggest downing some jack and coke tonight and get at it tomorrow.

I'm making it up as I go along.

Feb 3, 2012

Keep trying man, if you let yourself down your never going to get what you want. Learn from your mistakes and eventually you will get an offer. Best of luck to you.

Feb 3, 2012

I'm sorry to hear about your rejection, but hopefully the economy will get better with the Bailout Plan being passed.

Feb 3, 2012

cheer up and realize it's not only you facing these problems. There are many people that are on the same boat right now and this market isn't going to get better anytime soon. Keep working hard and I'm positive you will land something.

Best of luck

Feb 3, 2012

cheer up and realize it's not only you facing these problems. There are many people that are on the same boat right now and this market isn't going to get better anytime soon. Keep working hard and I'm positive you will land something.

Best of luck

Feb 3, 2012

missed a phone interview?! wtf dude?

Feb 3, 2012

yea not to make you feel worse, but didnt someone else just post about missing a phone interview a few days ago? how did this happen?

Feb 3, 2012

www.suicidehotlines.com/
www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
www.hopeline.com/

Remember someone out there may love you.... but the key word is "may", so all I can tell you is DOWN THE STREET not ACROSS THE STREET.. you'll thank me later!

Feb 3, 2012

Try out www.fmylife.com for size

Feb 3, 2012

very witty, guys

Feb 3, 2012

I would consider a masters in financial engineering program. Considering your background in mathematics and economics, I think you will do well and the program will buy you some time. The program is only nine - twelve months long. Hopefully, by the time you graduate from the program, the market will be better and you can find a job. I also find it strange, that you had such a hard time during the recruiting season considering you networked your ass off, and you come from an ivy with a good GPA in two majors of one which is very demanding.

Feb 3, 2012

While going back to school if you didn't find a job may seem like a solution, its a lot of time and money and you could still be in the same situation(if not worse) if you don't address the underlying problem. While a 3.4 isnt a stellar GPA, its still solid. And while Brown/Cornell are no H/Y/P, they are still top schools. Obviously academics are not the weakest link in his candidacy.

But none of the underlying issues are being addressed. Plenty of people are getting multiple interviews in this market. There is no reason someone from a top school with a solid GPA and an internship is not getting interviews unless their candidate package is really lacking something.

You're better off figuring out exactly what you're doing wrong and keep trying to land something rather than getting some horseshit degree. You will be very hard pressed to explain in an interview why you got a financial engineering degree but are applying for a position in investment banking.

There are only 2 situation in which I would recommend that route:

1- if you went to a no-name school and that is the primary reason you're not having any success. In your case, academics(grades and school name) are not a detrimental factor

2- if you have always planned on going back to school to get your financial engineering degree, and know you want to be a quant... this just makes it a more apparent route (it sounds to me like you would have taken any <abbr title="investment banking division

">IBD, S&T, HF job that came your way)

Feb 3, 2012

MainStreet_WallStreet... I think you should be the one contemplating suicide after adopting that ridiculous fucking media-coined phrase.

Hearing someone use that in conversation makes we want to give them a hot chocolate enema.

fffff111.... I doubt it since you probably have good career services at your school, but maybe your resume isn't upto snuff. As in either completely not banker-fied... or just really not presenting yourself in any way which is really impressive or makes you stand out. Feel free to PM me and I'll check it out and see if I can give you some feedback on your resume... or if its ok, then maybe try to figure out what else it could be.

Feb 3, 2012

PM me I can try to get you some leads @ a trading shop

Feb 3, 2012

Not to be too harsh, but if you worked as hard as you say you have and only have a 3.4 then maybe you aren't cut out for finance... My school (Harvard/Yale/Princeton/UPenn) has some grade inflation, but the people I know going into banking have 3.8 GPA's and rarely make it to class...

Feb 3, 2012

Read this book: "The Alchemist." I am dead fucking serious. It will take you 4 - 5 hours to read it, but trust me, just read it.

Feb 3, 2012
PussInBoots:

Read this book: "The Alchemist." I am dead fucking serious. It will take you 4 - 5 hours to read it, but trust me, just read it.

This might be hard to hear right now, but it sounds like you can't see the forest for the trees. You really need to take a step back and consider where you are in life.

You're young, you've either got money or you come from it, and you've done well while obtaining a great education. You're ahead of about 99% of the people your age. Fuck Wall Street. You have a myriad of lucrative and far more enjoyable opportunities outside the Street.

I just don't get this obsession with the Street. Some of you guys are as relentless as a dog with two dicks. It's not even that great a place to work anymore. I mean, I know why I did it. It was all about the money. If someone was willing to pay me more to jerk of buffalo for a nickel a herd, then that's where I would've made my dough.

Jesus, it's not that fucking cool.

Feb 3, 2012

Nice to see im not alone. Hang in there.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

Feb 3, 2012

I thought you had a FT job already.

Best,
SoulSearching

Best,
SoulSearching

Feb 3, 2012

Marcus_Halberstram is right. fffff111, if your background is as you stated, I don't see why you wouldn't get an interview other than being out of luck. If you still haven't got one even with an employee referral, there must be an underlying issue that raises a red flag on your resume.

Now, I might suggest:
1. Solicit an honest review on your resume and identify your weakness. Although I think you would already have done so, but just to make sure.
2. Get a part-time gig in finance. I don't think there is any in Ithaca, but in Providence, maybe.
3. If you are willing, go take a year-long masters program or postpone your graduation by a semester to participate in the next recruiting cycle. Look into programs at Columbia or NYU, so that you can maximize your opportunity to get an internship/network.
4. Do your own thing. Even if all else don't pan out, you can always start trading/investing on your own.

Feb 3, 2012

T4S, I thought you were bringin in 100k next year as a 1st year? did you get screwed over?

Feb 3, 2012

If you really networked you should have gotten some interviews. Maybe you need to review your resume or polish it. Don't feel disappointed if you didn't get any interview with investment banks, their future is very bleak, and they might not hire anyone for this summer and if they do, they will not hire as many for their full time class.

Continue your search for this summer and hopefully you will find something and maybe work for free or do some volunteering work. If you don't get your dream internship this summer consider to take an extra semester and maybe add another minor that you like.

Also try to go back to the small hedge fund.

Feb 3, 2012

gg

Feb 3, 2012

ffff1111,

Wow, you sound like your in the same situation as myself. If you have not read my post from last week, find it here: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/now-what-the.... We should start our own hedge fund together or something.

Ha, no but seriously, it's not the end of the world. I was very pissed off last week and I'm sure it showed in my post, but I have since calmed down. Keep your head up. I'm sure something will work out for us both. Meantime, consider Grad School, Peace Corps, or other non-Wall Street related jobs (at least until the market calms down).

Feb 3, 2012

I'd recommend to anyone these days submitting a greater number of applications than one normally would:

"of all the 25-30 resumes"

I am at an Ivy (w/ a similar GPA) and dropped for 150 positions, which yielded me just three interviews. Yes, I'm still looking for a job...

Did your current school offer that few opportunities? I suspect most everyone this year decided to cast a wide net, foreseeing a difficult recruiting season.

Feb 3, 2012

3.4 at Cornell, even doing a double econ & math, is too low. Assuming you average a B/B+ in your math courses, you could have balanced it out with A-/A in econ courses, not to mention astro 101 and science of heaven and earth for easy A/A+ to fulfill your two science requirements. Since your academics is relatively week, your extracurriculars don't make up for it, since you've only had ONE finance internship at a no name hedge fund.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just being honest with you. You would have gotten interviews if it were any other year, but this year is shit, and Cornell is big enough that there are people with ridiculous resumes that you don't know about. I know quite a few people who have better GPAs than you, more extracurriculars and work experience, who have no offers at the moment.

Feb 3, 2012

first of all thanks for the responses; i will try to reply to some of your comments

masters degree on fin engineering: i am going to graduate undergrad with 50k+ debt. parents have additional loans too. i could take out more loans to grad school but it would have to guarantee me something amazing when i get out.

GPA: I agree 3.4 is low because people dont really understand difficulty of math major. that could be the problem but what should i do going forward? I could get 3.6 before FT recruiting absolute best case scenario. like i said i pulled 4.0 with extra class no problem when not taking math/econ. i am absolutely 'cut out for finance'

"Assuming you average a B/B+ in your math courses, you could have balanced it out with A-/A in econ courses, not to mention astro 101 and science of heaven and earth for easy A/A+ to fulfill your two science requirements"

Econ is curved to B- in upper level classes at my school. an A- econ GPA is no joke. Still not an excuse, I know.

resume: i have had an MD at a middle market bank tell me it looks 'excellent'. this could be the problem but again i dont know what to do

taking a year off: seriously considering this. not sure how i could make it look good but i have no idea what is going on right now. any opinions?

please keep the advice coming. what can i do going forward

Feb 3, 2012
fffff111:

taking a year off: seriously considering this. not sure how i could make it look good but i have no idea what is going on right now. any opinions?

A very real possibility, and there are some good programs if you do that. Something like city year could look very good, and would also give you great contacts. Also, you could look at a year long internship - competition will be less for this, it will definitely look good, and could be a great opportunity to network with upper level people. You could also consider taking a year and starting a business or nonprofit, but that could show a lack of commitment if it does not fit in to a certain category. I'd suggest considering the first two, but do so ONLY if you want to - a year can seem a long time, you'll be behind your friends, and there still won't be any guarantees.

Feb 3, 2012

Have you e-mailed and networked for all the regional boutiques in the link below? what about to middle market banks and boutiques that didn't recruit on campus? stop relying on career services!!!

I'm sure you can find a ton of alums scattered throughout these...

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/regional-boutiques

25-30 resume drops is not enough in this market, especially with a 3.4, even in tough major. you aren't making the initial resume screen so the only way you are going to get an interview is if you move to smaller regional boutiques.

i also strongly suggest you submit your resume for rview in our public resume review service (free) here to make sure nothing is glaringly wrong on your resume:

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/Resume-Review

good luck,
Patrick

Please help us get to 20,000 members by March 31st and win a free WSO shirt! http://www.printfection.com/wso-store //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/march-to-20000-memb...
Invite People Here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/invite

Feb 3, 2012

FYI... its the most critical feedback which is the most beneficial and shows the most effort.

Its more time consuming to give someone feedback than it is to say "Yeah, looks great. You should be getting a lot more interest, must just be the market. Keep at it."

Feb 3, 2012

I second the "public resume review service" suggestion by Patrick. I did it after a rough session and I got some good feedback on some pretty silly mistakes on my part. I sent out my resume again and landed a gig at a PE shop.

Feb 3, 2012

I second the cast a wider net idea after you get your resume reviewed.

I have a similar gpa at a similar school and had interviews at most BBs so definitely keep asking for resume advice from your friends that worked in finance before.

When you start getting conflicting advice and its about minor wording and thats about it, you can just use your own preferences.

I had applied to 30 places before winter break was over (then about 15 more since) and got interviews at 12, then final rounds at 4, then offers at 2. So my yield I suppose is about 4% (but 25% for initial interviews).

Since you didn't get interviews, you need to change some things. First, the resume. Second, it shouldn't be as hard as it was for you to get a resume forwarded. Maybe you should read a book on networking? I know that sounds harsh and no one wants anyone to imply that you're not good at connecting with people, but any alum at Cornell/Brown should have been happy to forward a resume along if you seemed enthusiastic and intelligent, since you have previous related experience.

Good luck!

Feb 3, 2012

yeah, I'd definitely say you should post a resume, just to let it be looked over

Feb 3, 2012

here is my resume i would appreciate any help
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/resume-help-...
i guess i will spam my resume out tomorrow and if nothing comes of it think more extreme options of taking a year off

does anyone know what the recruitment process for fortune 500 intern is? did i miss it? do they go through on campus like banks or do they actually use their websites

Feb 3, 2012

Now we're talking.

Especially those people handing out free newspapers on the street going "good morning, good morning, good morning, have a good day now."

Good old Johnny W. never wishes me a good day.

Feb 3, 2012

I hate those free newspapers. amNY never has anything that didn't make it into more mainstream news a day before. I never take it even though they block you from going down the subway with their arm thinking you'll take it.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

Feb 3, 2012

"I drink alone" - George Thorogood

Feb 3, 2012

Bad weather when I'm in the office makes me happy. That way no one is out enjoying themselves.

Feb 3, 2012

i know its tough, but the reality is you got dinged at two places. move on, many more have done worse

Feb 3, 2012

Chin up, dude. For personal reasons, I jumped into the game just as recruiting for the bigger banks was coming to a close. Just keep cold-calling and working your pitch. Reach out to alumni and friends if you can, too.

Feb 3, 2012
Feb 3, 2012

Don't most people get rejected from 3+ banks? Sometimes its just a crapshoot.

Feb 3, 2012

keep trying, if you get dinged at every place, go for a stepping stone.
Apply to the BB's, god knows if you finally get some luck.

If you really want to do IB, you will make it.

Feb 3, 2012

Hang in there. Maybe widen your net a bit and look at non-banking positions at finance firms. I'm mostly thinking about bulge bracket positions in divisions that are still hiring - wealth management, Asset Management, etc. If you get the position , work hard for a year, you can transition.

Get on the phone and talk to alums. Nothing to lose at this point. Best of luck.

Chase Us, Break In!
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

Feb 3, 2012

Agree with the above posts that you should keep your chin up and move on. More importantly I would also suggest trying to follow up with the interviewers/MD to get some feedback on the interviews. Hopefully they can let you know the areas that you improve on. I think this will help when you land future interviews.

Feb 3, 2012

My friend applied to more than a dozen places last year and graduated without a job. Camped out in New York for several months cold-calling and setting up meetings with people and ended up getting an analyst gig at a very solid boutique. If you work hard enough you can still pull something.

Feb 3, 2012

Wow, I'm so surprised how you ended up not making for it after those kinds of phone calls. I suspect that the firm you had contact had some internal issues which prevented your hiring. But, as somebody mentioned above, I think it is worth to ask the MD what you did wrong..

Feb 3, 2012

sanjose, yeah man i was especially disappointed as i had my hopes in the sky, was confident of making it to the final round.

i emailed the md, still waiting for a reply

i can't imagine doing anything else for now, plan is to keep networking and hopefully something comes up. if that doesn't happen thinking of staying 2 more quarters so i can take part in the next recruiting cycle

Feb 3, 2012

the second firm basically sent me an email and said that their analyst class size is pretty small..so i am assuming they had more than enough target students to pick from

Feb 3, 2012

Dude, coming from a non-target myself, you gotta push till the very end. I was a month away from graduating without a job before I got mine. A couple of buddies did end of jobless but with hard work/networking, one of them just got into MBB, the other into a top Canadian IBank. Its not even November yet, so you got at least another 7-8 months of time to purely network/meet up/have coffee with people in the industry.

Make it your goal to cold contact (either call or email) 2-3 people per day Tue-Thur (people hate being bothered on Mondays and Fridays). If you do that, by Feb/March, you'll have contacted dozens, maybe even hundreds, of people. Most will ignore you (like 7 out of 10), but all it takes is for you to get that ONE hook.

P.S. Your screenname interests me. Shoot me a PM, want to ask you something.

Feb 3, 2012

I've been there, but as others have said, persistence and hard work always pays off.

There is ALWAYS some bank that's looking for an analyst off-cycle - maybe they lost an analyst, maybe their pipeline picked up very fast, etc. Finding such bank is always tough though, and it always involves a bit of luck and lots of networking. Have you got friends or family working in the industry? Ask if their bank is looking for an analyst and see if they can help you forward your resume to the MD.

Don't give up. You gotta cast a big net to catch a fish. Knock on as many doors as you can.

Good luck to you.

Feb 3, 2012

Actually, stop looking for a job. At least for a week or so. Simply say, "screw it". Give yourself a break. Being in job search mode 24/7 is exhausting.

Feb 3, 2012

thanks for the replies guys

you are kind of right aadpepsi, think i need like a week to regroup, i have been working towards this for the last 4-5 months

can't give up now though, need to push till the end. supib, have a couple friends working at boutiques. i am in touch with about a dozen boutiques, hopefully something comes up one of these days

Feb 3, 2012

on another note, if anyone is feeling generous, please reply to my post in the sticky regional boutiques thread. i am looking for updated lists of ibanks in cities on the west coast, as i am sure there has been some consolidation/changes in the last couple years

Feb 3, 2012

wow, are you serious.

Feb 3, 2012

At least you have a foot in the door... What about the kids that worked their tails off and didn't get the SA? Every time you start feeling the stress you should remember how selfish you are being by worrying so much about yourself. Think about the others that don't even get a shot at it this summer; that should bring a fresh gust of reality.

Feb 3, 2012

be glad of what you have buddy, it could be a lot lot worse...

Feb 3, 2012

monkeyman7... i think he is referring to full time which right now would definitely be a lot more scary than merely not getting an SA offer.

Feb 3, 2012

lmao monkeyman7,

Give me a break. This kid is worried about losing his FULL-TIME J-O-B, which means he would essentially be a graduate without a paycheck in New York City.

And you are comparing that to not receiving an internship offer where you can still somehow bounce back given that you are not yet graduated and can find other opportunities?

And no he should be selfish and think about himself.

If the worst occurs:
It's HIS career that would be affected.
It's HIS livelihood that would be affected.

I would be nervous as sh!t to graduating into this economy. More jobs will get cut, possibly even 1st years come this summer. People should be freaking nervous.

Feb 3, 2012

Seriously, just imagine what a nightmare full-time recruitment is going to be for people who don't have summer internships lined up. You have way to much to be grateful for; stop squandering it by worrying your life away.

Feb 3, 2012

dude, relax. you are starting at a BB, that means you did something right. this is a part of banking, there are going to be ups and downs and you can't wet your pants every time there is a downturn.

you are just beginning your career, even if somehow you were laid off, the fact that you once received an offer at a BB in this market means you are "worth it". People at other banks will be more than willing to hire you. sure you might end up in a regional office, but hey there are alot of people out there who didnt even get a single interview!

Finally: Go to the gym, Get laid, Do something with yourself other than sitting around and wondering about whats going to happen because until it does, its all just in your head. Idle hands are the devils work!

Feb 3, 2012

Idle hands suck indeed. Make use of them, stop using them on yourself! Ahahaha...

Feb 3, 2012

You have no control over what happens in the next few months. Just enjoy the rest of your senior year and summer. Work hard in training (don't fail any exams because it's possible that's where they would start cutting 1st years if the market got that bad. Happened in 2001/2002 according to the associates I work with), and just ride it out.

All the analysts are pretty worried about layoffs. From all the senior people I"ve been speaking with, they all say that this could be the best time to get laid off, when you are in your early 20s, because you still have the rest of your 20s and 30s to make your career.

Feb 3, 2012

I obviously misread the post. This is for a Full Time offer rather than a Summer Analyst internship.

I can understand why you would be stressed. Don't kill yourself over it though. You are a lot better off than my friend who was going to Bear Sterns... High levels of stress decrease your productivity. You've got to figure out how to calm down. Go play tennis.

Feb 3, 2012

if it helps, go visit a shrink or something. they might give you anti-depressants for a month or so

Feb 3, 2012

I have a number of friends with nothing lined up FT following graduation, and this isn't ugrad. That's tough. One of them put me in my place when I discussed a little fear over having my offer revoked. That put the current state in perspective for me. I've been releasing stress at the driving range for past couple of weeks.

Feb 3, 2012

Threads like these make me wonder are we nearing the bottom? When people are in pure panic about events that will occur 6 months from now given billions of permutations of sistuations that could arise between now and then.

Is this capitulating about the job market signaling a bottom?

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

Feb 3, 2012
trade4size:

Is this capitulating about the job market signaling a bottom?

I would think a job market signal of the bottom would be a post about "Why would anyone ever go into finance? That's just stupid," and every response would be in agreement due to exasperation.

Feb 3, 2012

Yeah, unfortunately the truth is we probably have to "cut the fat" and top talent would no longer go to finance but back to F500. Why does this have to happen when I am entering the job market? Sigh....

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

Feb 3, 2012

i really thought this post was a joke.

Feb 3, 2012

OP, this doesn't sound like a particularly good forum talk; if you're really this depressed, go see someone professional and talk it out.

Otherwise, think of it in terms of the starting-out college student. Once in a while (or often, depending on where you go) you'll feel like you were probably the mistake. 95% of the time that's not the case, you're just catastrophizing. Look on the bright side - you've got a job.

Feb 3, 2012

Lots of gloomy posts these days..

Feb 3, 2012

I hope this post is a joke. And I also hope that OP is not going in S&T or he/she WILL crash and burn miserably, and will end up on the street with NOTHING.
If you are serious though, don't worry, we are all a bit scared about starting FT. I am worried about waking up so freaking early, and even if I am not doing M&A, I don't really like the idea of 12 hours in S&T a day. They employed me for my language skills, and they think I can write fluently in a certain language: I make about 2 mistakes PER word in that language. Remember: they hired you, they have invested in you; unless you are a complete dumb ass they won't fire you.
What I do to pass off the time is freak out about my thesis and exams, it's far more scary than FT.

Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is.
- My ex girlfriend

Feb 3, 2012

Disjoint, glad to hear your writing skills in a fluent language are as bad as mine. =)

"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire a quelqu'un." - Samivel

"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire a quelqu'un." - Samivel

Feb 3, 2012

hahaha you pussy, at least you have an internship. if you can't handle stress BEFORE you've even started, that's the reason you will get fired. not because of the market.

    • 1
Feb 3, 2012

there's more to life than banking...

Feb 3, 2012

get a grip...I honestly do not think banking is for you. Try something else....seriously

Feb 3, 2012

dude, you need to relax. if you are worrying about your qualifications and intellect for the job/industry, you really don't understand it. many bankers are retarded (seriously most of the people getting offers are demonstrably less intelligent than those going to law, med or other graduate schools). unless you have a 1.5 at Liberty University, you're academically qualified. and since you've got an offer at BB, if something bad happens and you lose it, you'll still be miles ahead of others in landing another job.

Feb 3, 2012

You have an offer. You haven't started your career yet. You really have nothing to lose. The people should be worried right now are older guys who have ridiculous expenses due to houses, wives, etc. and save nothing because they spend all their money each year, and now have a really hard time finding jobs at that level anywhere.

You have a LOT of time to "fix" whatever happens now and nothing has even happened to you yet. A lot of my friends have been laid off recently, they actually have something to worry about.

I don't mean to be annoying here, but if this type of situation worries you, banking may not be the right move in the first place. There are days/months that have been way more stressful than anything that has happened recently.

I should also point out that you're better off than 99.9% of people in the world - this is one thing that living abroad teaches you. Sometimes gaining some perspective is helpful...

Feb 3, 2012

there's more to life than investment banking. you can't control the job market. if you lose your job, you need to adapt. there are no guarantees in the real world

Feb 3, 2012

Sort it out mate

Feb 3, 2012

You need to change your perspective. If you can't handle this, how will you survive in finance/business?
The problem here isn't the market it's your mentality. No offense, but I know people that have been laid off and if they have the determination to still be enthusiastic about life, who are you to be depressed when you still have an offer.

Feb 3, 2012

Carpe Diem Leptic ... you shouldn't be depressing over things you cannot control. Just enjoy what you have today. What do you gain by worrying ? You have your offer, you worked hard to get it AND MORE IMPORTANTLY you haven't been laid-off.

When training starts, work hard, and do what you can to improve your chances of staying on-board should the worst occur.

Feb 3, 2012

Guys, thanks for your advice.

I'm worried because I have taken out huge student loans back home to study in the US. The GDP per capita of my country of origin is pretty low, so it would take me years to repay the loan if I am unable to find a decent paying job.

Feb 3, 2012

Huge loans? Join the club.

Even if you get laid off in banking, I'd bet if you got a FT BB offer you could find your way into corporate finance at a F100/500 and make $60,000+ a year. And if that F500 is in a cheap place to live, you might even be able to save as much as if you were in NYC doing banking to pay off those loans.

I wouldn't get into banking if your sole goal was to make money. You'll be depressed all the time.

Feb 3, 2012

u are an absolute fogel...i don't have a clue why you are going into IB.

Now you have no responsibilities ( i'm assuming you don't have any kids and you are not paying a mortgage ) and you are worried about your student loan - the best debt you can have!

If the worst does happen and you do get cut after 2 years, you have been cut from a BB... and any second tier bank like barcap/RBS/ML(lol) etc.etc. will probably take you on because you have been through a BB training scheme.

And wtf..you'll not be going on unemployment. Stop being a pussy, if not i guarantee you will suck at life!

Peace

Feb 3, 2012

the problem is, i might get cut after a few months on the job instead of 2 years.

and when that happens, the job market will be flooded with tons of laid off bankers.

what makes you think that any 2nd tier bank would take me on?

perhaps you do not share the same considerations as me - there have been times in my life when i have been really poor and ill. so i'm constantly worrying about the future.

Feb 3, 2012

I don't know what to make of this.

"Mr. Perkins poses an extreme risk to the market when drunk."

Feb 3, 2012

Not sure if srs...

Feb 3, 2012

I am serious, JYFresh.

Feb 3, 2012
AxionJaxion:

I am serious, JYFresh.

sry 4 ur loss

"Mr. Perkins poses an extreme risk to the market when drunk."

Feb 3, 2012

Go find a woman? But don't flaunt your money, otherwise you'll attract the wrong type of girl.

Prospective Banker. Gentleman. Bodybuilder.

Feb 3, 2012

Definitely a troll cause $3 million will not buy you all of that, definitely considering the value of $3 million in 10 years. Plus, in 10 years a Lambo Aventador won't be that cool.

Feb 3, 2012

Weren't you the guy who's becoming a doctor, and wanted to start a hedge fund? Good luck buying that Aventador when Obamacare transitions to a single-payer system.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Feb 3, 2012

Pro-tip: Saving every dime you make for the first 10 years of working is not a great way to be happy, and it's an even worse way to find a girlfriend. This goes doubly for someone who's spent a decade-plus in schooling.

Another Pro-Tip: Planning how you're going to spend the money you've saved ten years from now on flashy material possessions is an even worse way to be happy.

    • 1
Feb 3, 2012
afroman99:

Go find a woman? But don't flaunt your money, otherwise you'll attract the wrong type of girl.

Yeah, kinda hard to do if our gentleman shows up up his date in an Aventador while rocking Brioni and a Patek. Perhaps volunteer for causes that you truly care about? It's a great way to meet women as your passions are aligned nomsayin.

Feb 3, 2012

Hire a hooker.

I think- therefore I fuck

Feb 3, 2012

Money is overrated.

Feb 3, 2012
yeahright:

Definitely a troll cause $3 million will not buy you all of that, definitely considering the value of $3 million in 10 years. Plus, in 10 years a Lambo Aventador won't be that cool.

I didn't say immediately. With that $3 million portfolio, I'll earn around 300K per year on stocks alone. Take out 15%, and you get 250K.

Add that onto the 300K and you get 550K. You can acquire all those things over time with a 550K salary. By the time I'm 45, at least. After all that stuff is bought, all I'll do is travel.

Kind of boring.

Feb 3, 2012
Comment
Feb 3, 2012
Comment

"Mr. Perkins poses an extreme risk to the market when drunk."

Feb 3, 2012
Feb 3, 2012
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"Mr. Perkins poses an extreme risk to the market when drunk."

Feb 3, 2012