Deustche Bank LevFin vs. UBS LevFin

i am evaluating two offers (both in nyc) as a second year lateral from a smaller bank

  • which is better for exit opps to decent PE funds (probably a tier below Madison Dearborn or JLL)

  • also, if i decide to stay in banking beyond the 3rd year, which is better for transferring to an international office (i.e. london, singapore, etc.)

thanks.

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Comments (17)

Dec 9, 2010 - 6:08pm
GOB:
Well looking at the DCM league tables DB outperformed UBS in every category in the US. In so as far as Lev Fin is concerned I would lean DB, as UBS is still under performing. Just my perception.

You are aware that DCM is distinct from LevFin? DCM, or Debt Capital Markets deals with investment grade companies and is less prestigious and has less exit ops than LevFin. On that note, UBS LevFin is pretty much the same as DB according to the league tables. I would decide on which firm you like the people at more.

http://www.leveragedfinancenews.com/blog/carol_clouse/youll_love_the_le…

Another note is that the deal size at UBS is far larger than that of DB. As you can see it did more dollar value in LevLoans than DB and had 5 issues vs. 23 for DB.

Reality hits you hard, bro...
Dec 10, 2010 - 12:09pm
MMBinNC:
GOB:
Well looking at the DCM league tables DB outperformed UBS in every category in the US. In so as far as Lev Fin is concerned I would lean DB, as UBS is still under performing. Just my perception.

You are aware that DCM is distinct from LevFin? DCM, or Debt Capital Markets deals with investment grade companies and is less prestigious and has less exit ops than LevFin. On that note, UBS LevFin is pretty much the same as DB according to the league tables. I would decide on which firm you like the people at more.

http://www.leveragedfinancenews.com/blog/carol_clouse/youll_love_the_le…

Another note is that the deal size at UBS is far larger than that of DB. As you can see it did more dollar value in LevLoans than DB and had 5 issues vs. 23 for DB.

I thought some places house LevFIn under DCM? correct me if I am wrong

Dec 9, 2010 - 6:19pm
boutiquebank4life:
UBS is definitely no longer prestigious

And DB is?? lol
Reality hits you hard, bro...
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Dec 9, 2010 - 7:33pm

..don't think anyone has really answered the OP's question

guy asked about exit opps and international transfers not prestige.

i think for PE - UBS is better
for international opportunities - DB all the way

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
Dec 10, 2010 - 12:03am

i work in a lev fin shop (not one of the two in the post), and i see by far more deals with DB as a lead/co-manager/bookrunner/etc. incredibly strong deal flow there as compared to UBS. it may not have quite the level of activity of BAML or JPM, but youll get the best experience there, and subsequently the best exit ops im sure (exit ops are from first hand knowledge, as i havent left, but good deal flow typically = good exit ops). and i dont know a great deal about international offices, but im sure either would be fine, especially since theyre both international banks to begin with.

Dec 10, 2010 - 4:41pm

In the US, DB is better for LevFin than UBS. I currently work in private equity and DB is on way more deals and leads way more deals than UBS. I also have some background in the area and know that DB is respected. DB is a name you think of when you are trying to do an HY deal in the US. UBS is not. Just based on reputation of group and overall bank, I would say go DB. See which group you fit in with better as far as people, but these are big places with lots of different people so it will be hard to judge based on meeting only a couple.

As far as PE exit ops, I think for the overall bank, the two names are probably viewed pretty equally (although UBS did get smacked in the past few years). Given that you would do LevFin at both places, I would say go to DB as the group is better and will be viewed better by PE firms, you will work on more and better deals and therefore get better experience (assuming both groups are fairly technical/modeling heavy groups, which usually LevFin is...if you want to go PE, you need to do modeling and valuation analysis and not be stuck doing pitchbooks and weekly HY market updates all the time) and have better deals on your resume. Since you are working on more, better deals, you will also work with more/better PE firms and your superiors will have better relationships with PE firms and can possibly help you out after your analyst program (although this is by no means guaranteed).

I can't really speak to the international exit ops (other than to assume that they both have good exit ops in Europe). I also don't know if my PE related statements apply to PE in Europe.

I would say definitely favor DB for PE exit ops in the US (although you should realize, and I think you do, that neither of these groups is going to be a targeted recruiting pool for KKR). Then ask yourself how you weigh the US PE exit vs the international exit. If the international exit is very important, do more diligence on the relative strengths of the banks in the international markets you want to work in. League tables are probably a good place to get some info. Also, speak to people who actually work/have worked at big banks and don't just rely on these forums, because there are a ton of monkeys slinging monkey shit on these boards.

Dec 10, 2010 - 4:42pm

DB LevFin vs. UBS (Originally Posted: 03/09/2007)

This is a question for the summer analyst program. I really liked the people I met at DB -- it just seems like a great fit. Nevertheless, everyone on this board is always talking about the significance of prestige in exit opportunities.

Assuming I am sure I would get into LevFin (I don't feel like going into details and arguing about how I'm sure I would get it, but I am 99% sure-and I realize a verbal agreement means nothing), which I understand to be their top group, would it still be stupid of me to take this offer? I'm a non-target, which from what I've heard here, means my resume may be less desirable when it comes time for groups to pick who they want...I'm assuming at UBS I wouldn't get into M&A/FSG/etc. So basically, I'm wondering if a top group at a non-BB in this case, would be comparable to a mediocre BB group for exit opps.

BTW, I am significantly more interested in hedge funds than private equity. Seems like LevFin would be a good gateway into a credit/distressed debt type of place, but people here would have me believe that you always should go BB, no matter what. What do you people think (and what are you basing it on)?

Dec 10, 2010 - 4:43pm

if you want to work in hedge funds and not PE. DB has much better Lev. Fin group than UBS' FSG. The experience you'll get will be great stepping stone into HF. I know a few people who have moved from DB and CS Lev. Fin to Carlyle's distressed funds practice and SAC as well.

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