Do Any of the Top B-Schools Put Less Emphasis on EC's?

Do any of the top 15 U.S. b-schools or premier international programs (HKUST, INSEAD, LBS, Said, Judge) emphasize extracurriculars less than others? The reason I ask is that, to be blunt, I haven't done much during college, and I'm worried about having the time and will as an analyst.

Assuming a 3.9+ GPA (Big 10), hopefully 700+ GMAT (taking in May), solid essay writing ability, and good recs. EDIT: Also assume at least 2 years in a NY BB analyst role.

 

Not an expert but I would have to say as long as you have some clubs or activities you should be competitive for all of these programs, except maybe Said & Judge which I believe have average gmat score above 700. I know that European schools do tend to put much weight on GPA so I think you should be fine. Curious to know where you hail from, where your looking to work and what your prior work experience is, if you don't mind me asking.

 
Higheck123:
Not an expert but I would have to say as long as you have some clubs or activities you should be competitive for all of these programs, except maybe Said & Judge which I believe have average gmat score above 700. I know that European schools do tend to put much weight on GPA so I think you should be fine. Curious to know where you hail from, where your looking to work and what your prior work experience is, if you don't mind me asking.

From the U.S.

I don't have any definite plans for what I want to do after business school because b-school is at least a few years away for me. I'll just be starting as an analyst at a NY BB this summer in public finance.

Probably use the MBA to either move into corporate finance, consulting, PE, or make a move to HK.

Also, it may sound petty but part of me has always regretted not applying to Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, or other top schools (partly for reason mentioned above) for undergrad. I like idea of being associated with the prestige of such institutions, haha.

 

O BTW you mentioned good essay writing skills. You could write some good quality short research papers and submit them for review to journals or think tanks and mention that. Even if you do not get published it is a good way of demonstrating a true interest and showing some focus.I have done this and makes for good talking point in interviews.

 
Higheck123:
O BTW you mentioned good essay writing skills. You could write some good quality short research papers and submit them for review to journals or think tanks and mention that. Even if you do not get published it is a good way of demonstrating a true interest and showing some focus.I have done this and makes for good talking point in interviews.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Although, I don't really like writing, I'm just good at it when I have to be.

Thanks!

 

I think EC's are about the most overrated aspect of an application, from the applicant point of view. Unless you devote a significant portion of your time to an endeavor, or founded something significant, they are all but pointless from an admissions perspective.

I had nothing of note on my resume from a "extracurricular" perspective...and had no problem with admission to several of the "top 15".

 

Anywhere from 0% to 30%; it all depends on what you accomplished.

Again, if you accomplished something; it will weigh more in your app. If you have nothing, well, your GMAT, then your GPA will carry the load.

Good luck.

 
freroht:
Anywhere from 0% to 30%; it all depends on what you accomplished.

Again, if you accomplished something; it will weigh more in your app. If you have nothing, well, your GMAT, then your GPA will carry the load.

Good luck.

Very true from my point of view.

Adcom will probably be conscious about the lack of free time people in certain career paths (especially IB) have, but if possible, by anymeans have something to pepper your application. If possible, be involved in a NGO (that shows you are socially conscious) and a hobby (if possible involving other people, shows you are fun and multi fasceted). As someone else stated before, and like every aspect of your application, leadership and impact are key.

You can get away without ECs, but you need to show exceptional GPA + GMAT + Career Progression.

 
Best Response

I agree with Cartwright.

Extracurriculars are not irrelevant, but they are the dessert, not the main course, and it seems like applicants overemphasize extracurriculars.

Here's another way to put it:

GMAT/GPA: this is the appetizer. If they're out of range, you're going to have a tough time convincing them to eat the main course or dessert. For the most part, GMAT is more important than GPA (i.e. a high GMAT / low GPA is better than a low GMAT / high GPA). For top 16 schools, you realistically need a 700+ on the GMAT in order for it not to be an issue (and if you're already at 700+, trying to eke out more points isn't really going to help). H/S/W cares more about U.S. GPA (not foreign schools, but US schools) than others simply because they can afford to be more picky -- average for H/S/W off the top of my head from memory is around 3.5.-3.6, with the middle 80% around 3.3 - 3.9; for the rest of the top 16, you can get away with a lower GPA (i.e. so long as it's above 3.1 it won't be a concern). Also, if you did engineering in undergrad, all schools will be more forgiving since they know engg schools grade on a much harsher curve (so as long as you're in the low 3's, you're fine).

Reputation/brand of school and employers: in short, the more exclusive a school you went to and firms you've worked at, the better your chances. This is really the heart and soul of whether you stand a chance or not; it's the main course of the meal. Of course, you can have a blue chip background and still not get in with even the strongest essays, but it's the overall quality of your work experience and reputation of your undergrad collectively that really dictate whether you have a fighting chance or not. And yes, there's a bit of a circularity as well at work - those with stronger or more prestigious work credentials tend to have gone to "target" undergrad colleges (i.e. colleges where IB/MC and other MBA-feeder type companies recruit such as the larger tech companies, GE, etc.). This doesn't mean that every single blue chip gets in and no "average joe" types get in, but that the cards are stacked heavily in favor of those with blue chip work and educational backgrounds - probably nothing new to most of you if you've seen the resume books of the top MBA programs.

Extracurriculars/ethnicity/personal stories: this is the "dessert". It's not irrelevant, but it's often the most overrated aspect. If your appetizer and main course are sub par, having even a "decent" dessert probably won't get you in. And most of the time, the dessert is really just a marginal thing -- it's not something that will make or break the entire meal. Of course, it can add a bit of color and that extra little cherry on top, but a lot of times the students you see at these top programs didn't get in because of their extracurriculars/ethnicity/personal stuff -- it's because they had a solid professional profile (work + school + GMAT/GPA) and did a reasonably to exceptionally good job on their written applications and interview conveying their potential to be a successful business professional. Remember that this is BUSINESS school, not divinity school. They're ultimately looking for solid business professionals who can manage companies, groups, departments.

Of course that shouldn't stop you from having a life outside of work or getting involved in things you believe in outside of work -- but do so on your own terms and because you want to - and not because you feel that it will boost your chances for b-school (because it probably won't).

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 
MBAApply:
I agree with Cartwright.

Extracurriculars are not irrelevant, but they are the dessert, not the main course, and it seems like applicants overemphasize extracurriculars.

Here's another way to put it:

GMAT/GPA: this is the appetizer. If they're out of range, you're going to have a tough time convincing them to eat the main course or dessert. For the most part, GMAT is more important than GPA (i.e. a high GMAT / low GPA is better than a low GMAT / high GPA). For top 16 schools, you realistically need a 700+ on the GMAT in order for it not to be an issue (and if you're already at 700+, trying to eke out more points isn't really going to help). H/S/W cares more about U.S. GPA (not foreign schools, but US schools) than others simply because they can afford to be more picky -- average for H/S/W off the top of my head from memory is around 3.5.-3.6, with the middle 80% around 3.3 - 3.9; for the rest of the top 16, you can get away with a lower GPA (i.e. so long as it's above 3.1 it won't be a concern). Also, if you did engineering in undergrad, all schools will be more forgiving since they know engg schools grade on a much harsher curve (so as long as you're in the low 3's, you're fine).

Reputation/brand of school and employers: in short, bthe more exclusive a school you went to[/B] and firms you've worked at, the better your chances. This is really the heart and soul of whether you stand a chance or not; it's the main course of the meal. Of course, you can have a blue chip background and still not get in with even the strongest essays, but it's the overall quality of your work experience and reputation of your undergrad collectively that really dictate whether you have a fighting chance or not. And yes, there's a bit of a circularity as well at work - those with stronger or more prestigious work credentials tend to have gone to "target" undergrad colleges (i.e. colleges where IB/MC and other MBA-feeder type companies recruit such as the larger tech companies, GE, etc.). This doesn't mean that every single blue chip gets in and no "average joe" types get in, but that the cards are stacked heavily in favor of those with blue chip work and educational backgrounds - probably nothing new to most of you if you've seen the resume books of the top MBA programs.

Extracurriculars/ethnicity/personal stories: this is the "dessert". It's not irrelevant, but it's often the most overrated aspect. If your appetizer and main course are sub par, having even a "decent" dessert probably won't get you in. And most of the time, the dessert is really just a marginal thing -- it's not something that will make or break the entire meal. Of course, it can add a bit of color and that extra little cherry on top, but a lot of times the students you see at these top programs didn't get in because of their extracurriculars/ethnicity/personal stuff -- it's because they had a solid professional profile (work + school + GMAT/GPA) and did a reasonably to exceptionally good job on their written applications and interview conveying their potential to be a successful business professional. Remember that this is BUSINESS school, not divinity school. They're ultimately looking for solid business professionals who can manage companies, groups, departments.

Of course that shouldn't stop you from having a life outside of work or getting involved in things you believe in outside of work -- but do so on your own terms and because you want to - and not because you feel that it will boost your chances for b-school (because it probably won't).

Interesting analogy; thanks for the breakdown.

The part in bold bothers me because I got bad advice when I was applying to undergrad. Everyone told me that if you plan on going to grad school one day, that that choice is the important one and your undergrad decision is not so relevant. But, it seems everyone giving me this advice neglected to tell me that your undergrad school's reputation has bearing on your admission chances ito[/i] grad school.

 
MBAApply:
I agree with Cartwright.

Extracurriculars are not irrelevant, but they are the dessert, not the main course, and it seems like applicants overemphasize extracurriculars.

Here's another way to put it:

GMAT/GPA: this is the appetizer. If they're out of range, you're going to have a tough time convincing them to eat the main course or dessert. For the most part, GMAT is more important than GPA (i.e. a high GMAT / low GPA is better than a low GMAT / high GPA). For top 16 schools, you realistically need a 700+ on the GMAT in order for it not to be an issue (and if you're already at 700+, trying to eke out more points isn't really going to help). H/S/W cares more about U.S. GPA (not foreign schools, but US schools) than others simply because they can afford to be more picky -- average for H/S/W off the top of my head from memory is around 3.5.-3.6, with the middle 80% around 3.3 - 3.9; for the rest of the top 16, you can get away with a lower GPA (i.e. so long as it's above 3.1 it won't be a concern). Also, if you did engineering in undergrad, all schools will be more forgiving since they know engg schools grade on a much harsher curve (so as long as you're in the low 3's, you're fine).

Reputation/brand of school and employers: in short, the more exclusive a school you went to and firms you've worked at, the better your chances. This is really the heart and soul of whether you stand a chance or not; it's the main course of the meal. Of course, you can have a blue chip background and still not get in with even the strongest essays, but it's the overall quality of your work experience and reputation of your undergrad collectively that really dictate whether you have a fighting chance or not. And yes, there's a bit of a circularity as well at work - those with stronger or more prestigious work credentials tend to have gone to "target" undergrad colleges (i.e. colleges where IB/MC and other MBA-feeder type companies recruit such as the larger tech companies, GE, etc.). This doesn't mean that every single blue chip gets in and no "average joe" types get in, but that the cards are stacked heavily in favor of those with blue chip work and educational backgrounds - probably nothing new to most of you if you've seen the resume books of the top MBA programs.

Extracurriculars/ethnicity/personal stories: this is the "dessert". It's not irrelevant, but it's often the most overrated aspect. If your appetizer and main course are sub par, having even a "decent" dessert probably won't get you in. And most of the time, the dessert is really just a marginal thing -- it's not something that will make or break the entire meal. Of course, it can add a bit of color and that extra little cherry on top, but a lot of times the students you see at these top programs didn't get in because of their extracurriculars/ethnicity/personal stuff -- it's because they had a solid professional profile (work + school + GMAT/GPA) and did a reasonably to exceptionally good job on their written applications and interview conveying their potential to be a successful business professional. Remember that this is BUSINESS school, not divinity school. They're ultimately looking for solid business professionals who can manage companies, groups, departments.

Of course that shouldn't stop you from having a life outside of work or getting involved in things you believe in outside of work -- but do so on your own terms and because you want to - and not because you feel that it will boost your chances for b-school (because it probably won't).

I would disagree with the weight you assign to former employment brand. That's on par with EC's. If you've done something amazing/worked somewhere outstanding, it counts (McKinsey or some such) but other wise it's far more about WHAT you did.

You also seemed to gloss over the essays in your meal assignment which are the heart of the entire meal.

 

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Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com

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