Is early 30s too old to start as a post MBA associate?
If I graduate from a top MBA program at age 32, 33, or 34, and would like to go into ibanking upon graduation, all other things being equal, would my age put me at a significant disadvantage to other candidates?
Yes
Absolutely not, provided you have the stamina for those kind of hours in your early 30s. Lots of people from non-traditional backgrounds coming in as post-MBA associates.
It's too old...it's just downright insanity. Why would you want to work 80 hours a week at that age?
I'd seriously ask yourself how you want to balance the demands of an IB job and your family/spouse. Some people can do it, but others can't.
The WSO community will mostly say it's too old. Keep in mind the age of posters here is skewed younger. Age 32 is very different for different people today. You could be a single guy who still goes out on the weekends, parties, travels for weekends, whatever. You could also be married for 8 years with 3 kids and a mortgage in the suburbs. I think if you're the former it can work.
It's not too old but you will have to make some extreme sacrifices assuming you've got a family. Also, are you intending to be a career banker or would you allow yourself to get head hunted into some corporate role? Just trying to get a sense of how passionate you are about this kind of work.
It would be very tough. Working 80-90 hours a week while being 32 - 34 years old, while being looked down upon by 22 -23 yr old analysts... not exactly a great lifestyle. For the first 12-18 months, you'll have a steep learning curve and you will be significantly less valuable and productive than a 2nd or 3rd year analyst. Putting up with that plus the brutal hours would be tough on anyone...
Anyone saying you're too old needs to shut up because they have no clue what they're talking about. The only disadvantage you'll have is dependent on your life outside of work. If you have a wife and kids you're obviously going to have it rougher than a 26 year old former Peace Corps member with no responsibilities outside of work. Age isn't the issue here, it's obligations and lifestyle.
Don't think so. There are some 30+ post-MBA associates where I work.
I worked with a mid-30s associate during my analyst years. He was well-respected, did a good job and was consistently top-ranked. As others have mentioned, the only limitations are going to be personal. Do you have a wife? A kid? Are you comfortable working the occasional 90 hour week?
Tl;dr you can do it all, if it's what you want.
Not too old. Plenty of MBA grads are over 30.
And you would know how? You are still looking for online IB or PE opportunities per your post:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/are-there-any-decent-online-pe-or…
I know someone at HBS who is 35.
I'm a 2nd year MBA at a m7 school. The average age at matriculation is 28, and average age at graduation is 30. Most of the people I know going into banking are 30-32 (lots of veterans are going into it, and they are on average older). It's insane to say early 30's is too old. Hell, I know a 35 year old.
All the associates in our group are over 30 except us analyst promotes. As others have said it will not be a issue, other than the fact that working as a junior banker in your 30s would kind of suck mentally for you ie. Formatting PowerPoint slides late into the night after the age of 30 for me personally would be dealbreaker, taking orders from a vp that is younger than you (if he is a analyst promote) could also be awkward at times.
No, it would not be a significant disadvantage. The average post-MBA associate is probably 28 to 29. A few years over will not kill you. Like others have said, it is what others associate with older age that would distract you from your career (kids).
There are plenty of non-traditional candidates who end up entering around 31-33 (military, alternative careers).
Seeing as it's one of the more common paths taken by the guys I've met at HBS with military experience, and on average, they're over 30 and married, you're certainly not alone. If you mean at a disadvantage from a hiring perspective, no, you're fine.
I asked a professor friend of mine about this. He may consider it after his gig as a professor at the top 5 B-school. I would consider to think that you would start as an Associate as oppose to an Analyst role. Though, I would take into consideration the sacrifices you will have to endure.
It is not a matter of getting "in" I think, it is a matter of "staying".
It's never too late. My only concerns with hiring someone in their 30's; 1) you may not be as malleable as someone in their mid-20's 2) Other responsibilities you may have (wife and/or kids) 3) Clearly you haven't decided what you want to do as a career up to this point and there's a risk that after getting a taste of the banking lifestyle you may be turned off by it and continue on to something else.
If you are confident it is what you want to do I would pursue it and pursue hard regardless of what other people say.
Not at all. I know a guy who went BB as a post MBA Associate at age 33. You should really reflect on the repercussions of your spouse/kids if you have them though.
Absolutely not.
No, it's definitely not too old. How old do people here think the average MBA graduate is? Moreover, I would guess that the average post-MBA associate (these days) has never worked in banking before, which means they are career changers who probably spent more than just 2-3 years working pre-MBA.
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Can you provide us with your study/data that led you to conclude the average age for a post-MBA IB associate is 29-30? I think it would be helpful for an social scientist such as yourself to provide statistical proof to settle these types of questions on WSO once and for all. I, for one, am sick of a lot of the conjecture on the site and am ecstatic we finally have someone who has compiled and analyzed reams of raw data for our benefit.
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Every Associate in my group has been post-MBA and between 30-32. I personally would never enter banking with a spouse or kids. Here's the thing: Even if you get to spend time with your kids/ wife, that is taking up 100% of your time outside of work. Forget hobbies, friends, activities, etc. One of our associates (insane one) just had a child and he still stays at the office late. Our other Associate has no social life and is 32.
Disclaimer: very disenchanted with banking.
Also, these fools that think they will go from making $250k to $80k if they go corporate obviously know nothing about corporate salaries. Yeah some people will say you couldn't hack it, but at the end of the day, joke's on them. Not sure why anyone past 30 would want to put themselves in a position like that. Goodbye life experiences!
Just want to point out that if you look around sites like WSO, there's a stigma with being a more aged associate, i.e. took the b-school route to enter banking. It's that you weren't 'smart' enough and not worthy of giving orders to the analyst because you are still fresh and haven't paid your dues. I think it's fair because technically, as an associate entering IBD for the first time, the analysts at 1+ years have much more experience than you when you're just starting out. Of course, it does make some sense because you wouldn't normally have a more senior title, all else equal, with less years of experience (in this case, 0 years of experience). It comes with the territory too, of being inexperienced, to have a hard time catching up with those of more experience. You can imagine that some of the analysts are likely to walk all over you because they know much more about models, the deal process, and just other general procedure and culture. I would think that it's not abnormal, though, because IBD should technically be a post-mba career. But, nonetheless, I think of the learning curve and need to, in some ways, suck-up to analysts who have already been there, done that. You'd be 35 sucking up to some 23 year-old kid, in other words.
I think you need to unpack your thought process a little more. There are plenty of fields (i.e. Medicine, Military, Law) where someone will come in with a higher title (and more formal education) but significantly less experience than subordinates.
Also, it is possible to form a mutually beneficial relationship with a subordinate without "sucking up". It is generally built through proven competency, humility, and respect.
Explain a PhD law professor, having 0 experience and then entering a law firm as a partner... There's experience there, though a different timeline. And medicine is the most critical of its peers and wouldn't flinch to knock work of colleagues that hasn't gone through stringent reviews. Just look at the Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes saga.
If someone gains a senior role without ever going through the process, it's because they bring diversified experience to the team or it's some unique event like nepotism, or to a less extreme point, it may just be a perfect culture fit that is hardly going to be the 'norm'.
My bank will hardly consider anyone my age (34) for such a role unless they had a really impressive background pre-MBA; I had no chance (I'm in wealth management at a BB bank). OTOH, age seems virtually irrelevant at most boutiques if you've got the skills and can network your way in. Far worse starting pay, but if you can kill it there you can make a ton and have a far more flexible lifestyle and practice.
I think a lot of people need to get over themselves in terms of the work hours. There are a lot of non-IB jobs that require significant sacrifices to ones personal life. This really all comes down to 1. professional development and 2. interest. If someone accepts a position in their early 30's as an associate at any firm has quite a ladder to climb to advance. The end ultimately needs to justify the means. People in investment banking industry need to get over themselves....there are a lot of people that work hard in other fields. They also making fairly comparable compensation. Particularly those who don't have to pay NYC rent. If you think an IB job is the direction you want to go....go for it. Early 30's is hardly too old. I would advise that there are probably better opportunities out there however.
I know plenty of the MBA students who will graduate in early 30s end up in banking. It is more about personal choice than bank's preference. I would say most majority is 28-30 and the range is 26-35.
I'll be starting in a few weeks at a BB and am 32. I don't look older than late 20's though, am single and don't have ego issues preventing me from learning from 22 year old analysts (actually had a great relationship with the one I worked with over last summer), so I'm not too concerned. I've worked in finance before, so if I really really hate, it I think I could find myself a decent corp fin/dev gig after a couple of years.
Many thanks for asking what has been on my mind. Many of the inputs (positive or negative) make lot of sense too.
I would like to ask if it is any different for female MBA grad?
I am 34 and got in during the MBA. most of the stuff has been said, its about your personal situation and what you prefer in life. Of course it is challenging to work at this age with a VP who is 3 years younger than you and an Analyst who knows more and is 23, but I think if you can manage the expectations of your managers you can also use it as an advantage and perform well with this experience. Obviously, IBD is not as fancy as many ppl think and you normally don't get rich anymore as the coveted KKR/BX career path. If you know this and like your job, thats all you need.
P.S. yes other jobs can be also very time consuming. A friend of mine is working at google, making more money than most IB guys his age but is also working 70 hours because he wants to. Still the perks, the environment and culture at google are way better than in banking, so he loves to work hard.
I don't mean to call any users out on this thread specifically but it seems like there are a select few users on this forum who quite enjoy destroying the IB aspirations of people that come from a non-traditional background. Not only are they on this thread, they have also been on my past threads not giving any advice and simply telling me to give up because I will never be an IB (a field I really do want to go into).
Edit: Those same people who felt that I was calling them out on this thread went through my post history and hit some of my posts on other forums with a monkey shit, smh!
I started post MBA when I was 30 (most other people that entered IBD with me where 28-31--so really not that far off. If you have a family it's tough. If you are single and willing to get over the fact that in some cases you'll be older than your direct promote VP and same age as your direct promote director, it's fine.
For those saying a 23 year old won't respect a 30 something MBA--not sure being over 30 is the reason--the one's that won't respect you won't expect a 28 year old MBA either. After 6 months it doesn't matter and you'll be caught up. You'll never model as fast as an analyst promote but that really doesn't matter if you're a post MBA associate (you aren't going to PE so who cares). By the time you've been there a year, you'll know more than the analysts if you have any type of head on your shoulders. Once you hit VP, no one cares about age anyway.
Random, but I am in a similar boat and do not want to take off 2 years of earnings for full time and was thinking of getting my EMBA from a top school.....would it still be doable to become an I-Banking associate from a top EMBA program for someone in there early 30's?
FYI, I come from a PE fundraising/distribution background (sales/trading before that).
Take a close look at the placement stats for any EMBA program you're considering. If they haven't placed a meaningful number of people into IB associate roles post graduation, chances are you're not going to be the first.
And the posters who mention your long-term plans are right: It's fine to go into IB in your early/mid thirties, but I'd only do it if it's a realistic stepping stone to something else you want to do but can't from your current position. Plan to get in and get out in in 18-24 months.
Your age is not a problem, but make sure you have the same stamina as other late-20s associates.
Not too old at all. FYI, there are 35 year old MDs. So, you'll need to have a blend of humility and aggression. Expectations will be higher for you. Make sure your technical skills are up to par. While you you won't be doing the core modeling, you don't want to be that associate that doesn't know PPT formatting shortcuts or what the Index function does.
much appreciated
Post MBA Associate - age factor (Originally Posted: 12/12/2014)
Hi Monkeys,
European monkey here, frequent reader but first time poster btw,
I am a structured finance analyst (my position involves M&A, project finance and investment analysis) in a large construction company in southern Europe. I am currently starting the business school application process and aiming to start in fall 2016.
Although I haven’t decided 100% which schools to apply, I am pretty sure that my post-MBA career objective is investment banking (BB, MM or EB) and my aim is to attend a top 15 college.
I am writing you to see if you guys could shed me some light on a doubt I have regarding post-mba associate age. I have read some posts, but I just wanted to post my doubt and receive sincere responses.
My doubt is the following: in the recruiting process for large investment banks and top boutiques, is a person 32+ years old considered too old to for a post-mba associate position and therefore, the probability of being hired is lower compared to candidates in the high 20´s?
I understand there are lots of different individual cases out there, but I would like to know what is the general perception of post-mba candidates in their early 30´s, just to see if age can affect your application or if it is not so important.
I am not a "career changer", since I was an IB senior analyst in a mid size regional boutique for 3 years (before changing to the structured finance analyst position), so I have the modelling, valuation and presentation skills, which I still use heavily at my current job.
I have this doubt because I will be 31 when I start the MBA (also when I start recruiting for summer associate positions) and 33 years on graduation, and my primary focus is IBD and staying in the states.
Of course, I don´t have any problems in working with senior people younger than me, I just want to break into a good IB position and continue to live the monkey life in the states (I know it´s a bit masochistic).
Thank you in advance for your help everyone,
I am sure that others have far better knowledge than I do. Many could advise you based on their experience, which I am not able. I can only tell you my opinion that is based on articles about thoughts of several recruiters. Usually BB would hire associates that are under 30. There is an opinion among them that people in their 30s are not willing to put in so much effort and time that is needed to be successful in investment banking. I would advise you to get an opinion from MBAs alumni or maybe MBA admission teams. These are just my two cents.
Haven't seen age being an issue. Will matter more to you (e.g. Have kids, wife pregnant?).
I don't think its an issue at all. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
You'll be a bit above the median age for most MBA programs that I'm familiar with but they also take people who are about as far in the other direction so I don't think that would be a problem. I would imagine the recruiting process would look favorably on the T15 and past experience and that you should be able to get in. IBD recruiting at top MBA programs has generally gotten easier as more students are looking to do other things and you've widened you're selection past BB.
For the moment, I have no plans on wedding, kids, etc... so age is not an issue for me... I suppose that is what they want to hear in the recruiting process.
Thank you very much for the responses, it would be interesting to hear also from actual post-mba associates.
For the moment, I have no plans on wedding, kids, etc... so age is not an issue for me... I suppose that is what they want to hear in the recruiting process.
Thank you very much for the responses, it would be interesting to hear also from actual post-mba associates.
So... any more info ??
They won't give a shit about your age.
What age is too old to be an associate in ER? (Originally Posted: 06/20/2007)
What age is too old to be an associate in ER?
don't think there is an age that is too old. but assuming you mean a first year in ER (not out of MBA) then you'd be working with kids right out of college. otherwise, we have some people in their low 30s who are first yr associates.
you're never too old but if you can bring something to the table (eg industry experience) then you will probably go in at a higher level.
http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/7559
I've seen people with grey hair come in at my firm as an associate. There's even a cardiologist that's 40 yrs or older who recently joined as an associate.
i think it depends on your skill sets. that cardiologist prob has great industry contacts and is here as an industry guy.
yeah, we bring in industry guys all the time, and they don't mind the associate tag b/c they're still probably making much more dosh than they did whilst in industry.
personally I think 27 is too old...
why so negative? An equity analyst's "career" can be anything from 2 years to 20 years (could be more but I've not come across any).
IB Associate Age (Originally Posted: 08/08/2009)
What is the average age of an IB associate? 27, 28? Do 31 or 32 seem too old to come in as an associate?
I recently graduated with my Masters in Finance and have two MM ER offers (one in SF and one in NY), but cannot see myself doing ER. I am seriously considering joining the Army through OCS for 3 or 4 years (active duty requirement) and then going back to bschool (710 GMAT). The military is something that I have always wanted to do and it just seems like the right time to pursue this opportunity. On the other hand, I really enjoy finance and sincerely want to become an IB associate after bschool. I am currently 25, so I'll be 31 or 32 by the time I leave the Army and finish my MBA. Will the age thing inhibit my ability to join an investment bank as an associate? Although the military is something I truly want to pursue, I do not want to dash my chances of becoming an investment banker.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Why don't you think you can transition from ER to IBD? I personally know several people who have done so
How often does this happen though? From my understanding, this is a pretty difficult move. Even more so in the current market.
Does coming from an mm firm (piper, RW Baird, FBR, not NY) make it more diffcult? Also, how does this work? Leave after a year, two years? Use a headerhunter, or apply for 1st & 2nd year IBanking Analyst openings?
Again, thanks for the help.
Age will not limit you. The MM bank I used to work at didn't have many associates under the age of 29/30. At the associate level, they're looking for the best people they can get as long as you're in the general area re: age.
~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker
If you research the big programs you'll find that the avg age at entry is generally 28, which means most top grads re pushing 30 at graduation. You won't be much older than your contemporaries.
Anyone else?
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