Question about Ambiguous parts of Networking

Once you get on a call with someone at a firm and ask questions about the bank or fund, what do you typically do? I understand you generally want to ask for a referral to speak with someone else but when do you start talking about applications?

As in, say I talk to 3-4 people at a bank, do I shoot them an email saying I applied once I formally submit an application or do you ask something different on the phone prior? Essentially, what's the best way to get the first round interview?

(yes I understand you want to make genuine relationships and that's been my primary goal so far but of course I am considering getting the interview)

 

This is what I would do:

  1. Submit app
  2. Get on the phone with someone from the firm/team. Ask questions, express interest, and then at the end (assuming the call went well), state that you are really interested in their summer analyst recruiting process and ask how you can best position yourself, given the crazy recruiting cycle.
  3. Profit.

Example: "Thanks again Joe the DeutscheBro, you've been really helpful. I wanted to let you know that I am very interested in Deutsche, and have submitted my app online. Given the hectic recruiting cycle these days, I was wondering if you have any advice on how I can best position myself to get a first round interview. Thanks."

 

I've personally found it most beneficial to cultivate a connection prior to formally applying. For me it was:

  1. Formal/ Informal reach out to pick off the right person for a coffee, ensure you're prepared and presentable with good questions and leave a good impression.
  2. Formally apply and when you get the receipt forward to your new friend purely as an FYI that you're looking to join which puts the ball in the court to be helpful or not.
  3. Benefit

9/10 if you handle the initial informal approach properly that person will put in a decent word or interest you to more folks on the team informally and gives you a good leg up going into a process.

 
  1. For sure if it's impossible to cultivate informal coffee meets in person you can go for phone calls. I'd just try to linkedin and cold reach out or be introduced to guys best you can then hit some for a quick chat to learn more about the firm and their role as well as their path there. You assume most may blow you off but you'll get a few on the phone, you'll ask a couple of thoughtful and well informed questions and leave a good impression when they hear you've applied to something formally.

  2. I would say the goal should be to cast the widest net possible. If you reach out to 10 guys, let's say you'll get 3 to talk to you, 2 will be nice and 1 will remember you when they see your resume. As far as following up when you enter a more formal process I would signal out the guy(s) you gelled the best with over anyone else - increases the odds they'll stick their neck out for you.

don't apologize - happy to try to help and good luck.

 

I've found that connecting on something outside of work helps me. It also gives an "excuse" to check up. For example if you guys are big Knicks fans you can quickly reach out to them about whatever problem the Knicks are having that week. If you're both big on travel you can reach out saying "hey Im heading to (insert area) and ask if they have any tips. Stuff like that. From my limited experience is that while most guys like their jobs, they also enjoy talking about their hobbies/interests. Some of the older guys on here can talk about what resonates with them when younger people reach out.

 
MonopolyMoney:

Follow up with them every few months or so

This.

In my experience, networking is never about "sticking out", it's about being in front of these guys at the "right time". You want to stay in touch with them, because there will be a point where they decide it might be time to bring someone on board, and if you happen to follow up around that time, they are going to - at the very least - interview you.

 

It will happen as you get older. Right now you're just trying not to be wierd. If you return the favor down the road you'll be a master. Just try and talk to the person like a human being and you will be fine.

 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/company/trilantic-north-america>TNA</a></span>:

Just try and talk to the person like a human being and you will be fine.

That might be difficult for the members of this forum.

"There's nothing you can do if you're too scared to try." - Nickel Creek
 

Be cool. Literally. He/she (hopefully not both) was at one time the same as you trying to land a gig. Make small talk during an info call/meeting. You actually get further by connecting on a real level (vs. talking real estate finance/business). One of my mentors once told me he would do deals with a new client and they would bring their wives to dinner...they wouldn't discuss real estate once during the dinner. He simply wanted to get a feel for the guy and what he stood for. Thought it was pretty sound advice but what do I know.

 

I agree, it can be a bit awkward. I'm in the process of being laid off, so I've been networking​ a decent amount recently. I've had a few phone calls w. people I only "knew" from LinkedIn and also a couple in person meetings. You want to take advantage of the time and let them know you're interested in their company /a job, etc but not be weird about it. Like anything, it gets easier the more you do it. I also agree w. finding some common ground. It'll help that person remember you down the road as well.

 

I think the biggest issue is standing out. I'm sure I am one of many to reach out to these guys and I am sure they are out and about often at events such as ones at like graduate programs.

I am going to do what others said and try to find an interest in common.

 

I usually try not to follow-up the initial meeting with an ask the next time I contact them. Advice that I frequently get is to do the routine "thanks for your time" follow-up, then monitor what their company is doing and shoot them a congratulatory e-mail/letter when they close a deal. It keeps you in mind and helps you stand-out from the other guys just asking for shit.

I come from down in the valley, where mister when you're young, they bring you up to do like your daddy done
 
Best Response

Currently doing what you’re doing and when I started networking, I legit had the same thoughts as you so I completely feel you and it can be frustrating. Also my networking experience is from a CRE perspective, not banking, but I think they definitely overlap. Hopefully my perspective can be of value to you:

However, when reaching out to guys, I feel I'm just doing the "cliche" thing everyone else is.

The nice thing is that most of the people your reaching out to did the same exact thing. You also pretty much are doing what everyone else is doing but the importance of networking isn’t the act of doing it or the act of reaching out itself, the importance is about having quality conversations with people in your desired profession. I know I struggled with this when I started out – volume and standardization. You’re obviously you're going to standardize a cold-email template, build out an excel tracking sheet to standardize when you "follow up and touch base", largely standardize how you go about targeting people, send emails when a deal closes etc etc etc BUT… you absolutely cannot standardize a conversation. This may seem obvious but I know when I started out I was approaching calls like a fucking mission where I was trying to conquer the world but once I chilled out and just focused on having a normal conversation, my calls starting going better and things happened that I’ll discuss below. I also think I struggled with the concept of volume, I always thought it was part of the goal to “talk to as many people as people” like the more people I network with the better the job I’m doing. Obviously volume is helpful but I’ve realized that the volume is really to increase the amount of opportunities to have a conversation that goes well. I mean think about, all the friends we have weren’t made over some standardized approach to making friends but rather just a simple conversation that revealed a mutual interest or a mutual activity, it wasn’t mechanical or automatic, it was just human. You want to increase the amount of opportunities to have these quality conversations.

So how do I stand out and actually develop a professional relationship instead of everyone who is doing the same yet might have the experience or advance degree?

I think this goes back to my earlier point about try standardizing a conversation. I honestly don’t focus on “standing out” now, I focus on having a high quality conversation and when possible, showcasing what I believe to be my credentials or value-adds. There’s no one formula for “standing out” just as there isn’t a formula for making friends or anything else socially. You just really have to be yourself, not awkward as fuck, and super respectful of people’s time. The rest will come naturally with time and effort (unless you're incredibly boring or incredibly awkward ). When I stopped trying to “stand out”, my networking made some progress, and I actually made some really solid connections. Which brings my next point:

Don’t underestimate the power of a few guys’ really pulling for you, maybe this is more so the case In CRE but I’ve been able to establish a few high quality, almost mentor-like relationships with a few guys’ in CRE and it has blown open some doors for me. I obviously run through motions of staying in front of as many people as possible but having a few people really pulling for you can open some doors in my opinion. And I think these few relationships that turned out really well are a function of a few things:

1) Pay it forward Train - I think it’s pretty easy to get a sense of the level of help you’re going to get from someone pretty early in to a conversation. Some people just don’t have the time which is fine so still follow up, be super respectful, and value the time they give you. But I think with time you can tell guys who just are much more on the “pay it forward” train, just the way they talk and interact, it’s very obvious they would be much more willing to go out of their way for you. I think investing extra time & effort into these guys has a better payoff.

2) Mutual Interest – I swear some of the best networking calls I’ve had either consisted of listening to someone talk about an interest of theirs for 15 minutes straight or talking about random stuff we had in common that just came up during the conversation. I use to always try to “steer” conversations back to the subject of business or the role they are in but realized to just let the conversation flow and where possible probe for more information and if you find a mutual interest run with it.

3) Actually Give a Shit – Ever talk to someone from school or a peer and you can just tell they don’t give a shit or are only talking to you to get something out of you? I mean the same shit applies to networking, obviously the person knows you’re reaching out for mostly one reason and it’s usually a one-sided relationship from a benefit perspective but actually being an active listener in a conversation and actually caring about what the other person has to say, I think can go a long way. When I first started cold-emailing I think I went into every call or coffee chat with the hope the conversation would benefit me or get me a resume drop or get me intro’d to more people but once I started approaching a call with the mindset “I want to get to know this person” – Honestly my calls just starting naturally going better. Again, this may seem obvious to some but I think it’s a mistake people make early on.

Well hopefully this helps in some way and if not, oh well.

Good luck out there!

 

Remember this motto: I work with people not companies.

This is especially true in real estate. Some of your best networking comes from people you've worked with. So try to be human at work too.

Have compassion as well as ambition and you’ll go far in life. Check out my blog at MemoryVideo.com
 

Holiday party rules:

  1. Be friendly to the boss
  2. Have a few drinks and mingle, be polite and positive at all times
  3. Stop drinking and go home when coworkers begin to look attractive
26 Broadway where's your sense of humor?
 

This is a good question. Can anyone elaborate?

So you meet a few 100 people? Then you expect to get an interview? From my experiences so far, I feel the "networking" that people mention is more of a reflection of an alumni network.

Usually, if you're trying to network to help your chances, the people you will come in contact with are in the same position you are in..

 
carbon:
This is a good question. Can anyone elaborate?

So you meet a few 100 people? Then you expect to get an interview? From my experiences so far, I feel the "networking" that people mention is more of a reflection of an alumni network.

Usually, if you're trying to network to help your chances, the people you will come in contact with are in the same position you are in..

to answer this--yes, the majority of "networking" that people do comes from the alumni network (mind you its still networking, and probably the best way to go about it if you have a large alumni network). Alumni networks are easier to find and be able to tap into (through linkedin, or through your school), and people are more likely to help out people that are from their alma mater (especially from a non-target school...everyone wants their school to be more populated on the street)

To answer the OP, i believe that networking is generally used for people to get their foot in the door. Differentiating oneself among thousands of applicants is nearly impossible (and why getting interviews from companys websites is rare), but if you have someone currently employed with the firm vouch for you, your opportunity for an interview goes up SIGNIFICANTLY. I dont think networking connections will ever be able to straight up get you a job (unless lloyd blankfien is in your network), but it gives you that chance to prove yourself to the firm, whereas if you are from a non-target you may have never gotten that chance (or if your GPA is low, no prior experience, etc). Networking is enormous for landing the interview, but after that I believe it is mostly on you.

 

Glad someone asked this.. I would love to hear more concrete networking examples that were not accidental.. (Maybe a new thread should be networking examples).. I am quite good at the "spontaneous" networking. However I suck dramatically at the "forced" networking. Example: At one party, I met several folks, two of whom turned around and got me interviews at their respective firms within the month. I was offered a job at one of those two firms.

HOWEVER, I don't understand that Alumni networking mechanics, or what I refer to as "forced" netwroking. While an undergrad, it was sorta cute; I emailed a couple of Alums and they met me for coffee etc.. Didn't lead anywhere. But, it just feels so forced and fake to go through the Alum database and write them an email etc..

How do people "network" with their Alums?

 

Thank you so much for the replies. So in general, how many alums per company should you have contact with before you would think it's gonna help you? Also, if the help stops after getting the interview, does it still make sense to call people in the firm once you get the interview? I'm still not really sure what the chances are that someone you contacted randomly would land you an interview? Would they even bother to help or do they have a say in this?

 

I'll have a punt.

///Thank you so much for the replies. So in general, how many alums per company should you have contact with before you would think it's gonna help you?

see how (1) well you can network (2) how much you want to work for them (3) how many contacts you have.

///Also, if the help stops after getting the interview, does it still make sense to call people in the firm once you get the interview?

depends. (1) do you know enough about the company to talk about it without enquiring further?

///I'm still not really sure what the chances are that someone you contacted randomly would land you an interview?

depends. (1) your contact is the head of the equities office and likes you very much. (2) or your contact is a middle manager who is more concerned about exiting the firm than helping newbies out.

///Would they even bother to help or do they have a say in this?

see above.

///and also, when you apply to a firm, should you send an email telling the contacts you used to call that you're applying?

depends. (1) do they like you or not? (2) do they have the power to help? RL story: great friend of mine likes me lots but has no 'hiring power' (hes not a manager) so despite him (1) liking me (2) him talking to HR might be nice, but has a lower probability on helping your app.

///I always see that you should send "I want to see how I can best position myself for an interview at your firm". What is this really literally asking for? advice on application?

it's what it's asking for. however, it's really in-your-face. think of when you'd use it. are you the DB that asks within 10 minutes of meeting someone "can you get me an interview?" or are you capable of presenting your accomplishments so that they ask you for it? maybe you need to use this sort of question to egg them on without asking them directly (which not many people are comfortable at doing).

///Usually, if you're trying to network to help your chances, the people you will come in contact with are in the same position you are in..

I think you're going to the wrong places.

/// I'm just curious, through what channel does networking really affect the results?

Depends. i read somewhere that 80% or less of jobs are filled by direct application.

 

and also, when you apply to a firm, should you send an email telling the contacts you used to call that you're applying? I always see that you should send "I want to see how I can best position myself for an interview at your firm". What is this really literally asking for? advice on application?

 

If you are doing what you say you are, then you are doing all the right things. The best way to start networking is to get on your unversity's alumni directory and just start e-mailing every person in IB, PE, HF, AM, etc for an informational interview. But, to break it down and make it somewhat of an easy formula, heres my thoughts/advice on networking:

1) Ask a friend who has graduated from your university for their login information for the alumni directory and do a search of people in IB, PE, HF, AM, etc and send out emails asking for informational interviews. 2) Ask you parent's, your friends parents, and your friends who they know if finance, and start thinking about anyone you remotely know that is connected to someone in finance and ask to be connected to them....then send an email asking for an informational interview 3) Sit down and write down a list of every club, organization, group of friends, etc that you have been involved in back from high school and start finding out who those people know in finance. 4) Talk to any finance, econ, etc professor you have had in college about your desire to get into finance and ask them if they know anyone or would be able to connect you 5) Go on linkedin and in the search box, put companies instead of people and just start plugging in names of banks, firms, etc and see who in your network knows someone at different firms and then ask them to connect you (this only works if you have a good linkedin/have a lot of connections) 6) Talk to past superiors at internships you have had in finance (if you have had any), tell them what you are thinking about and ask them if they would connect you.

You basically need to knock on every single door you can and cast your net as wide as possible. If you do this, I promise it will pay off. It worked for me. Let me know if you have any other questions.

XX
 
Pike:
If you are doing what you say you are, then you are doing all the right things. The best way to start networking is to get on your unversity's alumni directory and just start e-mailing every person in IB, PE, HF, AM, etc for an informational interview. But, to break it down and make it somewhat of an easy formula, heres my thoughts/advice on networking:

1) Ask a friend who has graduated from your university for their login information for the alumni directory and do a search of people in IB, PE, HF, AM, etc and send out emails asking for informational interviews. 2) Ask you parent's, your friends parents, and your friends who they know if finance, and start thinking about anyone you remotely know that is connected to someone in finance and ask to be connected to them....then send an email asking for an informational interview 3) Sit down and write down a list of every club, organization, group of friends, etc that you have been involved in back from high school and start finding out who those people know in finance. 4) Talk to any finance, econ, etc professor you have had in college about your desire to get into finance and ask them if they know anyone or would be able to connect you 5) Go on linkedin and in the search box, put companies instead of people and just start plugging in names of banks, firms, etc and see who in your network knows someone at different firms and then ask them to connect you (this only works if you have a good linkedin/have a lot of connections) 6) Talk to past superiors at internships you have had in finance (if you have had any), tell them what you are thinking about and ask them if they would connect you.

You basically need to knock on every single door you can and cast your net as wide as possible. If you do this, I promise it will pay off. It worked for me. Let me know if you have any other questions.

All of this.

Then when you do set up meetings ask them personal questions (e.g. how did you get to where you are?, what advice do you have for me?), and don't ask for anything - let them talk about themselves. The goal here is to get the person to like you, setting up (in their mind) a mentor relationship. When you establish this rapport, ask them if they know anyone else that might be able to give you advice in XXX field/industry; repeat and build network.

 

Everything said here is great so far. One thing I'd add, make sure to go for the family connections (if your parents are professionals that is) first.

I started by getting my parents to send out an email which I wrote to their contacts in finance saying i was looking for a job in capital markets/banking with a list of places I was applying and straight up asking if they could help me get an interview. This worked well because of the rapport my parents had already established with those people.

Just some food for thought--it's a dog eat dog world out there, use whatever resources you have.

 

Thanks for the help...one thing I'm still unsure about is the follow-up. I've had some great phone interviews, but how do you follow-up on those? I'm trying to find a way of not letting these conversations be a one-time exchange, but I'm not really sure how to do that without being a nuisance...

 

best thing to do is to call (if you think you sound good on the phone) or drop an email (especially with super busy alums that are hard to reach) and ask for an informal meeting (breakfast chat, lunch) to learn more about their industry. Meeting face to face is critical to get people to like you. Let them bring up any job offers, and if it doesn't happen, just arrange to stay in touch, and then send an email update of what you have been doing every 6 months or so. If you really get along and the alum is close to your age, maybe you can even become buddies, hand out together etc. I know people that got jobs that way.

 

I'd imagine it'd be better warming up to the direct question for a meeting first. Introduce yourself, ask a few questions and then be very appreciative and thank them and then ask them some more questions + ask for a meeting the next time around would be my suggestion.

 

I dont think it is bad at all to ask questions about the person's job and how it has impacted this/her life. You basically want to make it an information interview. Just get as much information about the industry, business, etc, and from there things usually build up (if you two hit it off) into him/her recommending you for a position or I have heard of instances where someone even created a position for someone he/she liked (I would imagine that is a relatively rare event).

 

Always contact asap. If you are busy that is fine. They know people have lives. But what can you have that is more important than networking? You take your finals to get good grades, which you hope will be enough to get an interview.

If you have the founder of a firm ready to talk or an alumni at a BB or whatever it is, you set time aside for them. That is how you expedite the recruiting process. Your result on that exam means dick compared to the result of your conversation with an DIRECTOR/MD/CEO.

Do not contact him at this point b/c he is not stupid and will put two and two together. When you see him you simply say "hey, its great to finally meet you. I wish we could have gotten together sooner." he will probably say "yea no worries" and than thats it. If he says, "yea that would have been nice" than you say "yea sorry about that, finals week was extremely hectic but I am glad I finally got to meet you"......

 

It is frustrating at times, but you just gotta be persistent....

I've had quite a few people tell me that they admired my persistence when we finally ended up meeting/talking after they didn't return my e-mails or postponed a few times. It even seems like some people purposefully ignore you the first few times just to see how bad you actually want to talk to them.

 
downtown22:
It is frustrating at times, but you just gotta be persistent....

I've had quite a few people tell me that they admired my persistence when we finally ended up meeting/talking after they didn't return my e-mails or postponed a few times. It even seems like some people purposefully ignore you the first few times just to see how bad you actually want to talk to them.

Quick question: How did u end up talking to them bud when they ignored u the whole time? Did u cold call them then?

 

Often your tasks will be many, And more than you think you can do. Often the road will be rugged And the hills insurmountable, too. But always remember, The hills ahead Are never as steep as they seem, And with Faith in your heart Start upward And climb 'til you reach your dream. For nothing in life that is worthy Is ever too hard to achieve If you have the courage to try it, And you have the faith to believe. For faith is a force that is greater Than knowledge or power or skill, And many defeats turn to triumph If you trust in God's wisdom and will. For faith is a mover of mountains, There's nothing that God cannot do, So, start out today with faith in your heart, And climb 'til your dream comes true!

 

As others have said, persistence and casting a wide net are the keys to success when it comes to networking. While it can definitely be frustrating to run into brick wall after brick wall, you can't let yourself become highly frustrated and ready to give up. Unless you are coming on way too strong, saying inappropriate things or something else that you should be able to spot, you will have luck and find yourself some solid contacts eventually.

Perhaps most importantly, although you should be persistent, you also need to know when to give up on a contact and accept that he/she isn't interested or doesn't have the time. Good luck.

 
[Comment removed by mod team]
 

I was in a similar position at the beginning of my first year. Eventually I just realized that networking is just a fancy word for being outgoing. That's all it really means. Get out there and meet whoever you want to meet. My first true long-term contact that I created was through sheer luck at my university's Starbucks. We introduced each other, he gave me his email and that, at first, seemed like the end of it. I just kept emailing and emailing until I got a reply, eventually we had several conversations through email (obviously in a professional manner) and through time he offered to meet me in person again and show me the ropes. My advice to you is show interest and passion, and you will get rewarded.

Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go - T.S. Eliot See my WSO Blog
 

I understand to show passion and interest that is why the few guys I am talking to keep replying. However with that said what information should I truly be asking these guys? Should I stick to questions on modeling and other things or what types of questions do you usually ask them?

giorgio.delgado:
I was in a similar position at the beginning of my first year. Eventually I just realized that networking is just a fancy word for being outgoing. That's all it really means. Get out there and meet whoever you want to meet. My first true long-term contact that I created was through sheer luck at my university's Starbucks. We introduced each other, he gave me his email and that, at first, seemed like the end of it. I just kept emailing and emailing until I got a reply, eventually we had several conversations through email (obviously in a professional manner) and through time he offered to meet me in person again and show me the ropes. My advice to you is show interest and passion, and you will get rewarded.
 

Well since you want to form long-term connections with these guys you probably want to ask them something that will sort of break the ice in a professional manner... Ask them how they get to be where they, ask them to clear up rumours you've heard about the IB's etc, and just try to gain inside knowledge without pushing the envelope too much. Most people like to share what they've learnt so don't think that what you're asking is annoying them.

Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go - T.S. Eliot See my WSO Blog
 

For networking with investment bankers, I recommend showing interest in their background - ask how they got into investment banking, what they do in their free time, focus on any shared connections, seem friendly and outgoing, make small talk or a joke (if they seem to be receptive). Gauge their response through their body language and demeanor. SMILE.

 

ask them if they like the company and the work, and ask them to tell you about some part of their work that they have enjoyed (a deal, a trade, a team, etc..). They will invariably say yes, and then when they tell you about something they have enjoyed, they will be feeling a positive emotion associated with the company. This moment is when you should say "that sounds awesome...i'd really like a shot to work there....can you help me get into the interview process?"

 
  1. Just tell them if they have a couple minutes to chat with you
  2. Find someone at the company that you have a connection to (friend of a friend, alumni, met at a career fair, etc.) and after speaking to them, ask them for more contacts
  3. Ask when you are setting up your info interview with people you have already corresponded with over email
  4. Alumni network is a nice start
 

1) Introduce yourself (name, school, major), mention general interest in industry, say you would like to learn more about firm, division, etc. Would you have a few minutes to connect sometime next week?

2) Two options to get contacts: - If you know the recruiter, mention your interest in a particular division or group and they'll try to set you up with alumni. If there's no alumni in the particular area you're interested in, they'll set you up with another junior member that is willing to talk to you. If you don't know your recruiter for the firm, find that out by emailing the general HR email and networking with the recruiter. - Second option = LINKEDIN! Hit enter in the search bar and then filter by firm and your high school and college. Reach out to those people by sending LinkedIn invitations (with customized messages--see bullet #1). Or emailing them by guessing their corporate email based on the company format (ex. Jackie Doe at Goldman Sachs would be [email protected], typically works unless their's a middle initial, or odd spelling of names)

3) You don't just call people to network. If you've connected over email ask if they'd have time for a call or to meet for coffee. If you get a call on the table, obviously there needs to be an exchange of phone numbers. I usually give mine since I schedule calls during my free time and will be waiting by the phone, whereas bankers have shit to do and it easy for them to call me when they're at a good stopping place

4) Unless you have friends in the industry already, email's the most accessible way to network. You could go to conferences, firm presentations, etc. But I've found those aren't as beneficial as developing personal relationships.

Email --> Phone/Coffee --> Resume forward --> Interview --> Job is the typical progression of networking.

Tips: - Most important thing about networking is to get a referral to someone else. It doesn't have to be during the first interaction. Meaning if you get in touch with someone in GS Consumer/Retail, ask if they know someone in Industrials, TMT, etc. that they could put you in touch with so you can learn more about that industry/group. - Networking is easier if you reach out to people you have some commonality with--alumni (college or high school), nationality (if you're an international student, reach out to someone from the same home country), fraternity/sorority, professional clubs/student organization alums. People are more willing to help people they relate to

 

Definitely send emails to each one individually. I would scale into this position... email one at a time, with the people you want to connect with most, first. Give a few days between each email, so you don't seem aggressive or set up too many meetings at once. If no one replies, repeat with second emails.

 

Do you have alums that you can contact? i find that it works really well because at least you have something in common. It's a lot more awkward/weird if you find someone off of linked-in, IMHO. There must be some hedge fund network/association also. I know for private equity, there is a Private Equity Association for young professionals (get together for drinks and the like) which would at least be a good conduit to getting to know people.

 

Give it a few more days. I once emailed an MD at Goldman and it took nearly a whole month until he responded positively. I'm not suggesting you wait a month but don't pester them with an email every day. Give it a week from when you sent the first email.

Also, get used to contacts sometimes going cold. People say to spread your net far and wide because 75% of people you network with or more, while they may offer to help at first, will end up doing nothing. Just keep at it with a positive attitude, because in the end you only need one solid connection to break in. You just never know who it will be.

 

Give it a few days - they know you want a job so no need to sugar coat it so give it say 5 days and see how it goes. Like banker88 said, I network with alums (target ivy) a lot and having spoken with about 100+ people in the last few years, maybe 20 will meaningfully help.

Just be patient and smart about how you follow-up. Don't give up :D

 

Well my hit rate's more like, I approached about 150 people, 100 of them will meet with me. Give or take some you just don't click with or are not doing something that interested me

That reduced it to maybe 50 people. Then those 50, some are not in a position to help me (headcount, circumstances, etc, not senior enough)

the 20 people that helped helped meainingfully to give me good advice, help me get jobs, and introduce me to their friends / colleagues.

I think the last is most important as your network expands that way even if you don't get an offer etc. In the end, networking will pay off tremendously if done right / well / dilligently.

To the op, the fact that you follow-up, are professional etc show that you care and are taking the time. So don't act desperate but do show that you put in the effort and it will pay off :D

Cheers

 

It can be nerve-racking for everyone at any level so no worries but remmeber not to distract yourself too much and not to put your egg in one basket. I had one time where a very senior guy at a BB basically promised me a job and I was super psyched for a week and almost didn't look at other opportunities. In the end it fell through so I'm glad I didn't just wait for that one person.

Good luck and let us know how it goes

 

It is nerve wracking waiting around for someone to email you back. I like the comparison to high school.

I'd agree that you should wait a few days before reaching out again, but when you reach out again, CALL the analyst. Everyone emails these days and inboxes are cluttered. Phones don't ring as much and you might surprise yourself with someone taking the call or getting back to you after you leave a message.

Also try to find some other alums that you know at the company. Send them an email saying that you'd met and had a good conversation with who is putting you in touch with , and you were wondering if they would be willing to talk to you by phone for 10 min one day to get their perspective on some questions you have. Include a few bullets or sentence about yourself highlighting the things that will think they wouldn't be wasting your time talking to you. This serves two purposes. The new individual may know/run into the analyst or VP and mention that they'd heard from you, reinforcing your candidacy and serving as a reminder that they need to get back to you, and it gives you another potential champion within the company.

If the person agrees to talk, make sure you're ready. Here's something to take a look at before that conversation How to Approach Informational Interviews – Key Do’s and Don’ts http://bit.ly/VCr79

Gotta Mentor www.GottaMentor.com Connect to the Advice & People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals

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Definitely keep in touch with both contacts, it would really be a mistake not to. That doesn't mean you have to email them every X weeks, but you really want to have as many contacts as you can. If you have two people passing your resume to HR, that's better than one.

As for #2, I'd say that tends to be just fine, but I'd express some interest in him and his division first. But this will all depend on how your conversation went, how much time you have, what you need, etc. I'm sure someone else has a good insight on this one.

 

but they dinged him because he wasn't a junior. i'd try contacting him, see if he remembers. worth a try.

"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."
 

send an email that looks generic with a 'seasons greeting' message and maybe he will respond and open a dialog. or if not, wait till after the new year and put in a feeler that way you wont look like a total self interested / self serving goof! that way you've got one touch point that isn't job related. good luck

![ ](https://leancoding.co/QJO0KD " ")
 

the moment you contact him he'll know you're in it for the job. no half-intelligent person would not think that. i say go straight to the chase, maybe he'll even appreciate the honesty. if you start with a generic email, he'll feel no obligation to get back to you unless you impressed him so much that he feels it's imperative that you join their team. if you email him something where you try to sound nonchalant, you'll sound like an idiot who thinks nobody knows he wants the job. OF COURSE YOU WANT THE JOB!! it's not something you should be ashamed of!

"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."
 

Definitely email the guy - and just reply to the original message and say , hey how are you - not sure if you rememeber but we spoke last year blah blah. In any case, im applying again and would love to catch up if you have time

 

how would it be completely different? wouldnt your school just be different? thats pretty easily explainable...

_________ John Tabacco's raw, unique market commentary based on real information from real short sellers: http://www.TheDailyShortReport.com
 

no thats stupid. if anything, it will sound like you're trying to hide something by waiting? if someone wants to see your resume, they want to see it now. they dont want to see it in a couple months when you have "new bullshit" to add to it. unless you know youll be in some ultra impressive ultra elite club or something, nobodys going to give a shit that you were in basketweaving club at one school and now youre in dance club at your new school.

bring up the transfer, it will give you something to talk about.

_________ John Tabacco's raw, unique market commentary based on real information from real short sellers: http://www.TheDailyShortReport.com
 

well i have the meeting today and i dont have my resume with me and i am at work and gmail is blocked.

that being said would it be bad to send it to him when i get home after the meeting.( if he does ask for it) plus i am not hoping for a FT interview i am a sophmore and would be interested in SA position for next summer. and thanks for all of your help so far

Plus: my current resume is kind of barron as i did not have a finance internship my fresh year. so should i inculde my current position on it if he asks and then email it to him tonight.

 
AnthonyD1982:
Dude, just bring up that you are transferring in casual conversation. Only thing changing will be the name of your school and club names. Real simple in my opinion.

thanks for the help but what about

TMgolf:
well i have the meeting today and i dont have my resume with me and i am at work and gmail is blocked.

that being said would it be bad to send it to him when i get home after the meeting.( if he does ask for it) plus i am not hoping for a FT interview i am a sophmore and would be interested in SA position for next summer. and thanks for all of your help so far

Plus: my current resume is kind of barron as i did not have a finance internship my fresh year. so should i inculde my current position on it if he asks and then email it to him tonight.

 

Do you have a cell phone? You could forward your resume to your work and print it out. Find a coffee house or something and print it. Call a friend or your mom and have them log into your account and send it to your work.

 

yah just follow up with them throughout the year... thats what i try to do... ask them if they know anything about summer analyst recruiting... thats worked for me a few times

networking is about building meaningful relationships... ive seen you post before and you go to a target so your persistence will be rewarded.

i've met with mds and they have recommended that i meet with some analysts to see what they do and ask them questions... try to get an alumni md to introduce you to some analysts

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
 

polite. short. sweet. ask them to coffee (if in same city) or if they would mind setting up a call to discuss their experience / the bank / the group etc. When on call / at coffee do not ask them to advocate for you. Just talk to them, learn about them, ask their advice, etc. Ask them if there is anyone else in XYZ group that they recommend you reach out to. Then email that person and say John BlahBlah recommended I reach out to you. And so on... They will take an interest and advocate for you on their own. If they're responding to your email, they're already interested or understand how recruiting works. They know what they're supposed to do. Ask explicitly for them to advocate for you and risk coming off as a jerk...

 

Slight thread-jack but I have a related question. When MDs pass on your resume to HR, does anyone know exactly how the process works?

For example, I spoke with an MD who said he'd pass my resume (and the cover letter he asked me to write) to HR. He did this, and I got an email from their HR person with some basic info, and she directed me to the firm's career page, and told me to apply there by the deadline. Does this mean that when they decide who to invite to first rounds, it's done simply through the online process? Or do I have some sort of advantage because my app was originally passed to HR by an MD? Sort of curious about how that works, if anyone's got an idea.

 

Follow up, follow up, follow up. Reach out to your contacts, tell them you understand they are busy, but you really want to follow up on opportunity at XXXX. Is it possible they can provide you the HR person's name so you can contact them directly.

Yes it does matter if someone contacts HR on your behalf. How is your resume? What is GPA, SAT/ACT, school, etc. Can tell possibly tell you how good your chances are at obtaining an interview or whether you should cast net wider.

 
TJB100:
Yes it does matter if someone contacts HR on your behalf. How is your resume? What is GPA, SAT/ACT, school, etc. Can tell possibly tell you how good your chances are at obtaining an interview or whether you should cast net wider.

I'm more just asking for curiosity's sake. I'm going to be casting as wide a net as I can regardless, I was just curious how the MD's name is associated with my application if they go through the online process to decide who gets a first round.

(To be perfectly honest, I was hoping for my resume to go through the screening process with a a sticky note with the MD's name on it, lol)

 

So I asked my question to a close contact and he said to complete the online application first, then let him know so that he could follow up with campus recruiting.

Hope this helps. Thanks for the responses guys.

 

It does vary firm to firm, but overall there is a process. Target schools first, the kids they have met during info sessions and other events, and then resume selection from the drop. The more people you have met throughout this process, the better. Make certain you also follow up with the employees you met - thank you emails or hand written note.

Non-target - sometimes you can apply through your career center, other times you need to apply directly to the firm's website. Next you should check your alumni network and reach out. It doesn't matter if they are MD's or new first/second year analysts - you are trying to get information and establish relationships. Learn as much as you an about the firm by reading their website and talking to employees. Learn about their intern/training program so you are prepared. Once you have established dialogue and possibly even had a meeting, ask if they think you are a strong candidate and what can you do to better prepare yourself. Also, could they provide you with the correct HR contact and would they also be willing to place a call on your behalf and send your resume forward to hr for consideration. It does make a difference if they make a call/send an email on your behalf. Your wistful vision of a sticky note on your resume isn't too far off. It is even better if the young analyst says, "I met this gut/spoke to him on the phone and he seems like a good candidate". Then there is your name/resume with an MD and another employee saying, " give this person a shot". That is all you can ask for.

Your job is to make certain you are prepared. Do your homework.

 
TJB100:
It does vary firm to firm, but overall there is a process. Target schools first, the kids they have met during info sessions and other events, and then resume selection from the drop. The more people you have met throughout this process, the better. Make certain you also follow up with the employees you met - thank you emails or hand written note.

Non-target - sometimes you can apply through your career center, other times you need to apply directly to the firm's website. Next you should check your alumni network and reach out. It doesn't matter if they are MD's or new first/second year analysts - you are trying to get information and establish relationships. Learn as much as you an about the firm by reading their website and talking to employees. Learn about their intern/training program so you are prepared. Once you have established dialogue and possibly even had a meeting, ask if they think you are a strong candidate and what can you do to better prepare yourself. Also, could they provide you with the correct HR contact and would they also be willing to place a call on your behalf and send your resume forward to hr for consideration. It does make a difference if they make a call/send an email on your behalf. Your wistful vision of a sticky note on your resume isn't too far off. It is even better if the young analyst says, "I met this gut/spoke to him on the phone and he seems like a good candidate". Then there is your name/resume with an MD and another employee saying, " give this person a shot". That is all you can ask for.

Your job is to make certain you are prepared. Do your homework.

Thank you TJB, your post is GOLD!

 
  1. Those are not mutually exclusive. Be sure to fill out any references on the app but also reach out to them and see if they can pass your resume to the right person.

  2. Analysts are very important to network with because often times they are the ones that make the actual decisions from the resume books.

  3. This person probably doesn't want to talk to you or is too busy. Keep sending emails would be my advice.

 
Michael Scarn:
1. Those are not mutually exclusive. Be sure to fill out any references on the app but also reach out to them and see if they can pass your resume to the right person.
  1. Analysts are very important to network with because often times they are the ones that make the actual decisions from the resume books.

  2. This person probably doesn't want to talk to you or is too busy. Keep sending emails would be my advice.

Thanks..just a follow up question of 2. Is it true for graduate applications as well??I thought HRs are responsible for grad recruitments and hence VPs, MDs might have more influence than analysts and associates on HRs

 
Michael Scarn:
1. Those are not mutually exclusive. Be sure to fill out any references on the app but also reach out to them and see if they can pass your resume to the right person.
  1. Analysts are very important to network with because often times they are the ones that make the actual decisions from the resume books.

  2. This person probably doesn't want to talk to you or is too busy. Keep sending emails would be my advice.

I agree with this as well except for #3. I wouldn't keep sending the emails, at this point you're probably just annoying the hell out of him. There's a fine line between being persistent and annoying. Just write that one off...

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

It always saddens me to see universities cheating out people who already paid them (the students) and licking up to the people who may throw them some bone in donations (the alumni).

But seriously, wtf? I can understand if they literally have no career service, but probably they do and are just being asshats.

Anyhow, OP - do it. You have nothing to lose. Reach out to them via email to set up a call, or via cold call - whatever you prefer. If you do an email, you could add your CV as a "reference" (do so only if it's good, though - you don't want to give a subpar first impression which could have been mitigating by showing your are motivated first).

 
Frabjous:
It always saddens me to see universities cheating out people who already paid them (the students) and licking up to the people who may throw them some bone in donations (the alumni).

But seriously, wtf? I can understand if they literally have no career service, but probably they do and are just being asshats.

Anyhow, OP - do it. You have nothing to lose. Reach out to them via email to set up a call, or via cold call - whatever you prefer. If you do an email, you could add your CV as a "reference" (do so only if it's good, though - you don't want to give a subpar first impression which could have been mitigating by showing your are motivated first).

Yes, we've got a career service but they're not very helpful and no nada. Thanks!

 

I wouldn't try too get too detailed in your first meeting.

Are you emailing them your questions? If at all possible, it's always better to go for a phone call or an in-person meeting. They'll remember you better and some things are just easier to talk about rather than write about.

If you can get some brief phone calls or meetings set-up, take some time to understand their background, and ask them about that (What led you to/how did you get into IBD/S&T, why did you move to x company from y, how did you transition from this industry, etc...). Just from them sharing their background you should be able to pick up parts you want to learn more about and you can ask them to elaborate. You can also search to see if their firm's been in the news lately, and target some questions around recent events.

 

Don't sweat it, noob. Anyone looking at your LinkedIn profile will not expect you to be an expert at anything. Just ask somewhat general questions about what works from them. Ask them what sort of good habits that they have acquired and put to use, etc. What to read, etc...

And if you really want to make an impression on them, ask how you can help them. Who would be a target client for them, what is a good lead for them, do they need help finding anyone or anything, etc...The key to successful networking is to offer help first and build some trust. The ones who return the favor are the ones you want in your contact list.

 

Thanks guys! I will do that. I've actually got a phone conversation set up for later this week, so now I've got to create a list of questions. I've got 2 so far but I think I should get 3-4 more to make for a substantial conversation.

Also, another person I'm networking with sends emails back very quickly instead of usually taking a day or two to respond. Since I want to develop long term relationships/connections with these people so that I can have them help me out with internships in my sophomore year (still 1 year away), do you think it is better that I wait 3-4 days or even a week before sending them my next question? This way, I'll be able to drag out email conversations with them for months and they will remember me. What do you think?

 

If you read M&I at all, Brian mentions that it is possible to network too early. Turnover in finance is very high, especially today, and memories are short, so the ideal time to be networking is ~2-6 months before you apply to a firm.

Also, you should try to be having conversations with these people, either in person or if that's not possible, over the phone. Don't just ask them question after question either; pick up on cues and actually try to have an engaging conversation. If you find that difficult at first, then start off with people on whom you don't really care about making a really good impression (be it because of their rank or their firm). Practice makes perfect.

 

I watched his networking video a while ago. I'm going to read up on M&I again today I guess.

In that case, should I just ask them a few questions this week or so and then ask them another question in about 9 months time, when I begin networking for sophomore internships? I'll probably reply to the email chain from this time so they remember who I am.

 

The alumni know perfectly well that you aren't looking for an "information session" - you want them to like you so they can recommend you for an interview. They did it when they were in school and now it's your turn.

Bottom line: impress them. If it's alumni, bring in some school-related topics. And be sure to thank them with an e-mail afterwards. Even if they decide not to help you (which would be 95% of the case), your name will still be in their brain.

p.s. Most of your e-mails will be ignored. Don't take it personally. I used to get pissed when people don't reply, but eventually I realized it's just part of the game.

 

definitely be up front and honest with him. He clearly likes you if he is inviting you back for another summer, so I don't think he'll be pissed if you ask him for a referral to another division. I think you will piss him off if you wait until after recruiting season to tell him that you don't want to work for his division.

 

Yes, it is (or at least used to be when I was at a BB) common for firms to allow people that they dinged for SA to re-interview for FT. People develop, and if they liked you as a person (personality fit), then they may think that you have a shot at being more polished in a year. My view is more related to how we treated kids through OCR, but I'm sure that the same principles apply for kids that got in through networking. If you are making multiple super days, you are clearly doing some things right.

If I were you, I'd follow up with my contacts now, express that you appreciated their support in the interview process and ask for any feedback that they might have received. Tell them that you remain interested in their firm and would appreciate the opportunity to speak with them again next fall.

Spend the next 6 months polishing your message and find something interesting to do for the summer that you can spin as a solid and relevant experience.

 

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