Does "good culture" exist at the pre-MBA level in PE?
I'm headed to MBB as a BA/AC/A in a few months, and I've been considering pre-MBA associate recruiting in the next cycle (won't be ready or experienced this cycle). I want to do PE for 2 years and for the typical reasons (experience, comp, b-school), but I plan to go to b-school and not look back after my 2-year stint (maybe go back to MBB, maybe do something else, but not post-MBA PE).
My question is, is the culture in PE broadly as bad as WSO makes it out to be?
Everyone I've talked to at my MBB (both senior level and people who I was friends with in school) makes working at MBB seem like an incredibly fun experience - taking weekend trips with your class, including work colleagues in your wedding party, things like that. My incoming class is also reasonably demographically similar to the school I just graduated from (in terms of gender, race, socioeconomic background, etc.), which is important to me.
PE seems to be just the opposite. Everything I've heard about culture seems to be about how stressful or sweaty any given shop is, and there's very little talk of the general camaraderie/commiseration that seems pretty prominent across IB/MBB. Also, PE investing teams are overwhelmingly white dudes, which is a homogeneity that I'd consider a pretty big negative, especially as the MBB/IB analyst classes that they recruit from have become more diverse. I understand that PE requires long hours, but there seems to be very little in the way of people/culture that makes the long hours worth it in the way MBB/IB seems to have.
I've seen the posts about lifestyle and all the complaints about sweatier shops, but what I really mean by "culture" is more about the level of personal/professional development, the mentorship/network that firms offer, the working environment (in terms of how people treat each other), and the general level of respect/friendship among colleagues. I understand that PE firms probably aren't going to match MBB on these dimensions, but does culture really go out the window if you make the jump from MBB to PE? The upsides of PE are enticing, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to be chewed up and spit out by a PE associate program.
I realize I may have rose-colored glasses about culture, and I could accept that MBB culture is overhyped/PE culture is overblown. However, my experiences with people in real life and the tone of the posts about PE on WSO have me worried.
So did you ignore all the Asians/Indians purposefully or do they not constitute real diversity in your book?
FWIW, I'm an Asian guy, but I didn't include them because I think my statement about PE associate classes being majority white guys is true, and because it seems that Asian/Indian guys are, like white guys, overrepresented in PE classes relative to the demographics of the IB/MBB classes that PE firms recruit from.
Shouldn't you be comparing representation vs people who interview and not the entire class? And got it, so being overrepresented means the class is no longer "diverse" despite a large chunk being non white because it's not the right kind of non-white
I'm not interested in arguing over the merits of diversity - all I'm saying is that MBB seems to more deliberately hire and support people from different backgrounds (across gender, race, socioeconomic background, sexual orientation, and other demographics) than most PE firms.
I realize that I'm on the outside looking in, but the fact that PE associate classes are significantly more homogenous than my college or my MBB analyst class is one of several factors that make me concerned that PE might not be a good cultural fit for me. I'm hoping those with experience in PE can shed some light on this perspective.
I don’t work in PE, but I’m pretty sure If you define good culture as deliberate hiring of people from different genders, sexual orientations, and ethnicities, instead of hiring the best talent that also fits the culture of that pe firm, then PE probably doesn’t have “good culture”.
I think OP is just making excuses for when he or she fails to make it into PE. Then he or she can be like "well the culture's bad an I didn't want to do it" lol Also your diversity comments are pathetic. How can you tell someone's sexual orientation and socioeconomic background from PE websites? Why are you making statements like Asians are overrepresented in PE when you have no idea?
https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-are-the-least-likely-group-in-t…
What the fuck are you smoking?
This thread is fucking toxic good lord.
To answer the actual question at hand, it's a little bit of both. Mckinsey/BCG/Bain are great at marketing themselves but I've met more than my fair share of miserable McKinsey associates. Realistically it's a job where you spend extended periods of time alone in your hotel room in bumblefuck USA working late on some meaningless assignment. The camaraderie and perks are real though and despite the above most people I know found it to be a pretty fulfilling experience overall. For what it's worth, a lot of the Bain kids I met in business school loved their experiences and were enthusiastic about heading back.
It's really hard to generalize culture in PE on the other hand because there are so many firms and they're so small (we're talking an investment team of PE, ranging from extremely political and alientating to very friendly and congenial. My advice to you would be to reach out to alumni from your consulting firm and/or undergrad working in PE and chat with them about the culture and experience. If firms sound like a good fit then be sure to emphasize those when you're talking with headhunters to make sure you're headed to a place you'll be happy with. Worst case scenario, you accept and offer you don't like and grind it out for two years while getting paid a frankly absurd amount of money before bouncing off to business school.
Thanks for giving an actual answer - I was not looking to start a fight about diversity with this thread.
If networking is the main way to evaluate culture, then that's what I'll do, I suppose. The range of the spectrum and the lack of any proactive selling on culture does make me think that I could chat with people at 10 different firms and only come away thinking that 2-3 firms are places I'd actually want to work (part of the process, I know, but I don't love the idea of going into on-cycle recruiting with only a few names on my list).
Regarding your worst case scenario, it's pretty much exactly what I'm concerned about. Yeah I'd be making tons of money and that would be cool, but I've never been one for the "grind it out" mentality when it comes to difficult/unpleasant workplaces. If I know that's what I'm getting going into PE, I'll probably skip it and go straight to business school.
"I suppose," "proactively selling," suggesting that the worst case scenario is working at a megafund chungrias, you're the biggest prick on this website. F you
OP - feel free to PM with more questions or to chat more at length, but agreed with @James Gourmand.
BB/MBB programs do have the upside of comradery through the hours, but mentorship and culture are pretty specific to the project/project team and group/deal teams. PE has a huge range, with a lot of MM firms having an emphasis on the type of culture and experience you're describing as somewhere you want to end up at.
Quite frankly, culture is something that's difficult to filter for during the recruiting process, but with more candidates and firms participating in off-cycle, you'll get more of an opportunity to really diligence this. In addition to tapping into your network, I would make sure you have a clear idea of what types of sectors and investing strategies would be interesting to you intellectually first and a strong sense of how much prestige matters (some of my friends have deliberately ignored culture because they prioritized a firm with a strong MBA placement). There are also certain code words to headhunters that tend to code for a more development-driven experience, and the questions you ask in your interviews with PE firms should also be well thought out to gauge this too.
Could you elaborate on what words or questions one could ask to evaluate these factors?
thoughts on the pre mba culture at GTCR?
I've heard mixed things and I think it varies by group (they silo you right away). Can't remember which groups specifically but I know one is pretty chill while one of the others is pretty grindy. I've heard the firm as a whole has a pretty good culture though.
Have a couple friends there and can second this. From what I've heard, the Financial Services team is extremely sweaty, but HC is generally regarded as having the best balance at a junior level
Sed distinctio quia sed enim. Dicta vel consequatur labore esse. Cupiditate voluptatum labore laborum sunt ullam.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...