Importance of Pre-MBA experience in Post-MBA associate recruiting
I missed the boat on banking out of undergrad and joined an FLDP program and now work in FP&A at a Fortune 100. I’ll be applying to MBA programs this year, and I’m interested in associate positions post-MBA.
How hard is it to get into a good firm from a Top 15 (but probably not Top 5) MBA without banking experience?
I know there are old posts on this, but I’m looking for the current environment. Some of the old posts seem to suggest this is easy, but from casual perusal of LinkedIn, it looks like many post-MBA associates have pre-MBA banking (or at least transactional) experience, which I lack.
Are top firms (BB or elite boutique) feasible with my background, or would it be more middle market, etc?
Also, I’m particularly interested in restructuring, but I realize this is a more specialized skillset. Could someone with my background have much hope of breaking into a firm like Houlihan restructuring or Blackstone as a post-MBA associate or is this totally unrealistic?
Any input / advice would be much appreciated.
Not in IB, but I am in business school (top 5 program) and getting IB associate offers is definitely do-able from a top 15 school. I looked at number of schools in that range, and if you look at the employment reports plenty of folks go to IB (many from non-traditional backgrounds). To sum up, very doable with your background, especially if you have a decent GMAT / GPA and prep for the interviews. This includes BB firms and some of the EB's that take post MBA associates - certain EB's (such as Greenhill, Evercore) do not recruit from business school heavily so unlikely you will end up there.
Re the second part of your question, I don't have much advice - based on my anecdotal experience, RX is possible but doesn't require a ton of associates given the niche skill set / deal flow. For firms, Houlihan is more likely and definitely possible - Blackstone (even advisory side) is a tougher nut to crack.
This is also something i've been pondering and I did notice on Linkedin that incombing post-mba associates had pre mba transactional experience of some sort.
A banking associate role is definitely within reach from a top-15 school. All the BB firms maintain healthy relationships with the career services office at each program. Obviously a school like Wharton is going to get more attention and receive more internship offers vs. Darden or Fuqua, but you're still going to see a bunch of summer associates from the latter.
Where it won't help you is the 'EB' firms that are known to be very technical and selective in their associate hiring. Blackstone, for instance, only hires associates with prior banking experience (in some cases a combination of banking to PE). Moelis is similar.
Really appreciate the replies - this is encouraging.
Would love to hear any other input/experiences on this, particularly if anyone has insights into restructuring.
You'll be fine. At my program (top 15) we send 10-15% to IB each year and Id say only 5% of those have previous banking experience of any sort. Almost all are career switchers. Id actually say youre probably in better shape w your background; plenty of career switchers were in non-finance roles prior to school.
Maybe I am not reading your post right, but are you applying to these programs without a year of work experience? Seems like you graduated>started at FLDP>will apply soon.
No, sorry should have clarified. I've been out of undergrad ~four years. I graduated > started FLDP > now work in FP&A > will soon apply to business schools.
A lot of people at my top business school got into banking with zero finance experience, and top BBs and EBs at that.
I think you overestimate how popular IB is.. at my school, most people target management consulting / tech jobs post MBA. It's self selection bias because my school is only a target for O&G IBD in Houston. Most people who are set on IBD in Houston end up with summer offers and end up converting to FT. Since you already have a finance background, you'll probably be in the top 10% of those targeting IB roles
That is absolutely right. The most impressive kids at my school went for MBB and tech. Banking has lost it's luster for majority of kids coming in to top 5-10 MBA programs. It's still quite popular with internationals and bros though.
Pre-MBA experience helps a ton, however the majority of my classmates (Top 10 MBA) didn't have the experience and still got strong BB gigs. Here's what they had in common:
1) very sociable/fratty - able to connect well and suck up to bankers. They were mostly white dudes (with a few american born Asian/Indian dudes) who came from well to do backgrounds 2) somewhat relevant pre-mba jobs - big 4, corp fin, pwm, something to do with finance, etc..
The internationals (ie Indians and Fobs) did poorly due to not fitting in with the banker bros. Very few of them got IB jobs. The only ones who did were superstars who went to IIT and had pre-mba consulting or blue chip experience.
Ironically the hardest firms to recruit for are the MMs and Boutiques since they only want people with IB experience and only hire a few kids per year. Personally I don't understand the appeal of a non-elite boutiques after business school as it takes away from the brand you built in b-school. IMO if you cant do BB or decent MM after MBA, go for a strong F500 corp dev/strat group where you will be exposed to interesting deals from the inside.
Does your pre-MBA experience matter for Assoc. hire? (Originally Posted: 01/26/2009)
How important is your pre-MBA experience for securing a spot as an associate in IB?
In my situation I'm at Accenture UK and intend to do an MBA in a few years then get into IB (depending on hiring at the time). Will coming from consulting make it v. difficult to secure a summer internship? Any other career changers used an MBA successfully on here?
Many people make the career change. In fact, it's probably one of the most common reasons to attend business school (for a career change). I think it's quite normal.
Assuming you get into a top program and IB still exists the career change shouldnt be an issue...just make sure you secure a decent summer internship
To answer your question... yes and no. what matters is how you tell the story of your past and how you make it clear when you realized that you wanted to do banking and why. then you need to explain why you're a good fit and when you have demonstrated (key word here is demonstrated) in your past, the skills they are looking for in associates.
thats how your past matters...its all about how you spin it... it doesn't matter what you did to be honest... its all about how you present it... yes it would be better if you have one certain background over the other... but in the end... its all about you selling yourself.
I went to a top-tier MBA (HSW) and did my summer in banking and the answer is generally no.......what IBnutz said is spot on: it's all in how you sell yourself. There were people from all sorts of pre-MBA backgrounds (military, public interest, etc) who got i-banking jobs/internships.
The only exception to this is for some of the name brand boutiques. I think it was either Greenhill or Evercore that seemed to only take people who had previous financial services backgrounds (e.g. equity research) though it certainly wasn't a formalized requirement; just something that was talked about/rumoured among those recruiting for IB.
Pre-MBA Experience for Associate role (Originally Posted: 04/12/2007)
What value do firms place on pre-MBA experience for people switching into an IB career? Right now I have two years of experience as an engineer. After graduating with an MBA, will I be at a severe disadvantage to another MBA grad with 5 years of pre-MBA experience? Do banks tend to view the MBA as an equalizer?
It depends on the bank, but many, if not the majority, of post-MBA associates I know from my class and friends do not have banking or even finance backgrounds.
The MBA is the opportunity to switch careers and HELP learn the finance (but you will still probably want to learn some finance on your own, because by the time interviews roll around you might not have had many finance classes or they weren't specific to what you might be interviewing for).
That being said, 2 years of experience, regardless of what it was, is very thin. Many banks in most cases won't consider you for an Associate position without at least 3 and very often 4 years of experience. (please don't post the one kid you know exception stuff, I'm talking on average).
As an Associate, you definitely need quantitative and analytical skills, but they also want you to be able to manage people and be good in front of clients. These two things often come with time and experience, thus they are seeking people in that 4-6 years of experience range.
But if you come from the right MBA, you can still pull it off. I do know quite a few people with 2-3 years of experience who are kind of stuck in the middle because they are too-experienced (or want more money) to be an Analyst, and don't have enough experience to be an Associate.
If you are not in your MBA program yet, I would wait a year or two, personally.
What type of work is not that important as long as you are smart. Since you are an engineer, they will assume you can handle the math, so that is good already. In my Associate class, there was nobody with BB analyst experience. We had a couple people from company internal business development/M&A group, but we also had a guy who worked for a mining company, a doctor, a few consultants, Fortune 500 firms...you see everything.
Hey,
Thanks. That was quite informative.
How would back-end Research and analytics desk of an BB IB go down in gettin an associate role post MBA in a BB.
From my experience, what kind of experience you have is not as important as how well you did and what type of skills you can transfer.
So did you get promoted? Did you achieve as much as you could? Did you learn skills that would be applicable in banking?
If so, go to a good MBA, and be able to explain why you should be a banker.
Obviously, there is less explaining to do the closer the role is to banking.
As an example, I worked in Supply Chain Management for 4 years both at a Fortune 100 firm internally and as a Consultant.
Nothing I did had anything to do with Finance per se. BUT I made sure my CV showed that I had strong accomplishments and transferable skills within it.
For example, I had never built a financial model, but I built some mega-complex inventory models. Rather than just saying I managed inventory, I phrased it in such a way to emphasize that I managed $40 million in inventory using a complex Excel model.
That is just one example of how to highlight your skills such that a bank might think, "Ok, well this guy wasn't a banker, but he knows Excel." Etc. Etc.
Does that make sense? If I was applying for another Supply Chain job I would write and phrase my CV completely differently...the point is make your experience relevant, whatever it is. Don't freak about not having exactly the right experience.
When your 30-35 with 10 years experience, the game is different, but immediate post-MBA you have your freebie to make a change,so take advantage of it.
I agree - your pre-mba experience should reflect all the skills you need for IBD.
thanks alexey, your comments giv me a lot of hope and feelin of security. I used to keep thinking tht not being a front end IB analyst right after graduation would really slow down your career and bring a lag in you IB path.
My experience is that the a signficant number of incoming associates are career switchers with no finance background at all.
Pre-MBA Experience for IB Associate after MBA (Originally Posted: 10/01/2015)
Looking for help and advice to get into investment banking as an Associate post-MBA.
I have spent one year at a data analytics consulting firm and now work for an economic consulting firm (reputable shop, i.e. Cornerstone, Compass Lexecon). Specifically, I work in the antitrust/competition practice. I plan to stay for 3 years and then go to business school.
Assuming I get into a top 10 or better B-school (no lower than Darden or Stern), how easily could I get a job as an IBD Associate?
Outside of doing well at my job, what else can I do to improve my candidacy to break into IB as an associate?
I won't have any direct finance exposure (outside the M&A in the antitrust/competition I work on) when I apply. Will this matter?
Any help or advice is appreciated!
How many years of exp. needed for post MBA BB Associate? (Originally Posted: 11/23/2012)
When BB's recruit for Associates at MBA's, how many years of pre-MBA experience are they looking for?
For example, if I did 2 years of GE FMP and then went to NYU Stern for MBA, would I have a very good chance at BB Associate?
Thanks!
How much work experience to enter in as an IB Associate? (Originally Posted: 12/26/2013)
I have 1 years work experience in Silicon Valley as an engineer. Should I keep working and gain more work experience before getting an MBA program to become an IB Associate? If so how much? (I'm more concerned about job competitiveness rather than school entry)
Also, nothing wrong with getting experience in a different field?- I'm 26.
Thanks.
pre-MBA experience for IB associates (Originally Posted: 02/01/2011)
1) Wondering what is the typical pre-MBA experience that is looked favorable during MBA recruiting for IB associate positions? Or the pre-MBA background doesnt matter, since the associates will be trained anyway? I'm a software engineer with ~7 years of experience(at time of joining). Will this background, put me in any sort of advantage or any sort of disadvantage? I'm from an average state school but my experience is at well known top tech companies.
2) From the placement reports in many schools, usually 10-20% of people goto IB. But do most people get interviews or even getting interviews in IB is hard in OCR?
I'm assuming/hoping I will manage to get into a top 10 program :)
IB Associate from B-School (Originally Posted: 11/01/2007)
Suppose that you were already admitted to a top b-school but had to work for a few years before entering and that your undergraduate majors are Finance and Engineering (giving you job options in either field). Your goal is to get an IB offer from a BB.
What are the best jobs to do for those few years to maximize getting the offer? I assume IB would be best, followed by trading? engineering? How important is this job -- very? since it's basically all they have to work with when you're interviewing for internships? Would it be best to work for 3, 5, or more years before entering b-school?
Any other advice on activities to do -- e.g. able to get into the b-school without doing things like community volunteering that others who get in may do?
Top Bschool -> BB S&T Associate .. W/out Prior BB Experience? (Originally Posted: 02/08/2009)
Hi,
I am wondering if recruiting for Associate programs at BBs require prior BB experience. Or does relevant experience such at trading for a boutique qualify?
Are the training programs for associate positions in-depth as analyst training programs?
I will be applying Bschools in the next couple years and wanted to get a good sense of how competitive I would be after graduating (to see if it's worth it to go to bschool)
Thanks
Entering as an Associate after an MBA Degree (What kind of job experience is needed for a top 10 MBA program) (Originally Posted: 04/08/2007)
What kind of job experience gives a person a good shot at a top 10 MBA program hoping to enter the ibanking realm as an associate?
I mean obviously being an analyst at a BB for 2-3 years is the best option; but what are some other options? Working at a boutique for 2-3 years? Consulting? Other jobs within the financial field?
If I didn't work at a BB or boutique investment bank, could I still make it into a top 10 mba program after 2-3 years of working in consulting or another job?
Thanks in advance.
i am curious as too. can mba be thought of just like undergrad? basically the best school ensures top placement just like target schools for i banking?
Wow, i was wondring the same thing...I posted this also in the thread labeled mba?
Don't kill me for this stupid question. I will graduate w/ an undergrad biz degree. I think I would like to start as a financial analyst. In order to move up the ladder, do I still need an MBA? Can I get this MBA maybe after 1 year of working while I work and finish my 3 years of being an analyst?
also, do many firms help pay for mba tuition?
The best type of pre mba experience, in my opinion, is finance experience or top tier strat consulting (BCG, mck, etc). On the finance front, could be investment management or even audit. something with analysis and numbers.
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