Hey guys,
I'll be working at a BB next year and have a question about downtime...it seems like even though the hours suck in banking, there's a lot of time when you're just waiting to be assigned work, waiting for corrections, feedback, etc. and not doing any real work -- for instance, look at all the current analysts we have on this board chatting all the time.
My question is whether this perception is correct, and if so, can you actually do productive stuff during this time instead of just screwing around on the internet? Or isn't there any real downtime to speak of, and you have to look like you're working all the time? I'm thinking about doing stuff like reading for pleasure (real books/magazines, not cnn.com), learning a language online or on a preloaded program, etc. Is this totally out of the question, or can you get away with it?
when i was a summer analyst, I was practicing my excel shortcut skills, reading pitch books on companies I was interested in, and even research reports. Trust me, it gets noticed and people know that there is a lot more besides money for you. they see that there is a genuine interest
I think down time is one of the big secrets of analyst life. Nobody likes to admit they have it lest it be taken from them, but we have it.
I, personally, cannot take nonproductive time. I like to read real books, which I can do through sites like Gutenberg et al (just don't expect much from the twentieth century). I just keep the font size small, make the window small, and it looks (vaguely) like a popup from a SEC filing. If you don't look too closely. Of course, if someone walks by, you alt-tab.
I've also used the time to brush up on Japanese and Italian, study the world history of foodways, better understand the physics of liquid-metal-cooled nuclear reactors, actually figure out all of what happened at Thermopylae, work through some old Koine Greek etymologies that had been bugging me for over a decade, and learn (on paper, at least) how to build a really big trebuchet and use it on the field.
I'm also roughly a quarter of the way through my third or fourth incarnation of the Great American Novel. So yeah. I'd say we have downtime. You can do as you like with it, within reason, but you must be discreet.
Lol, you're such a dork.
www.ESPN.com, my personal oasis
I'm not an ibanker but this would probably be my resort during downtime:
http://wap.betcris.com/BetCrisLaunch/index.jsp
Blocked, Vector.
It's actually a sports betting site but that link was about mobile betting. Wagering right from your PDA.
Not from a work Blackberry, unfortunately. There's a lot you can't do at work.
Can they do that????? Block what YOU can and cannot do on your personal phone? I'm guessing you work with Goldman?
bberry isn't your personal phone
Yep. You will need to buy a personal Blackberry (which I have done) to get unblocked Blackberry webcrawling access. And as long as your work and personal Blackberries look similar, it will be difficult to discern what you're doing.
Instead of carrying two blackberries around, why not just use the one you bought for your own personal use and put away the company's? What's so special about the company's? The only problem I see in doing this is you would have to give your Associate or any other one of your other bosses your personal number.
how about working out...is it possible to step into the gym if the office has one during these times?
Just try to make it 80/20 productive and constructive.
When I use the 20, I go to www.pinkmonkey.com (It is an online reading site; despite the name) or I'm on youtube watching missed television show episodes...
gym is a legit move for sure
If there's a gym near your office, and there usually is, it's a good choice.
Can you just leave the office during the middle of the day for a work-out if you have down-time? I thought the only opportunity for this is right before/after dinner time, when the VPs/MDs are gone..
Great question. That's exactly what I want to know.
you usually can't leave during the middle of the day to work out, unless you let your associate know and he/she is cool with it. that's very rare.
you are correct, you'll usually work out after the VP/MD's are gone so about 8:30ish and on.
The implication from a lot of these posts seems to be that during downtime (at least during downtime during the day), you need to do things that feign working (reading websites that look like SEC filings, only playing with your blackberry if it looks just like your work blackberry). So, is it unacceptable to bring in an actual physical book or magazine to read (so people would know you are clearly not doing banking work) or just leave up whatever dumb not work related website you're reading when someone walks by? Do you need to pretend like you're working at all times even if you have nothing to do?
Also, how about playing poker online? Is that okay?
Yep, in fact if you want top bonus, online poker playing at work is the way to go.
Yes... you definitely need to be visibly working during most of the time you're at work. That's not to say that if someone catches you reading ESPN every couple of days (or reading an online book once), that you'll be fired... but you'd better hope it's not the wrong person, because that stuff does add significantly to the overall impression you make on your group. Also, the impression needs to be that if you ever do anything like this, it's only for five minutes or so, never for long periods. Nobody's going to be too harsh about a quick peek at the day's scores, but if they catch you working your way through War and Peace, something is wrong.
I'm sorry, but that just sucks. You have nothing to do, but you've got to be PC and pretend like you're doing work. I spent my summer doing just that for fear of not getting an offer to return, and I was hoping that I was just being paranoid and that you could actually do whatever you wanted if you had a long break in the day. Guess not.
Because the work Blackberry has work software installed, and in order to use that work software, I have to accept that websites will be blocked and traffic monitored.
Also, if I tried to work from my personal Blackberry, I would eventually forward a personal email to a work contact accidentally. I can be vigilant, but I would never risk something like that.
Finally, we are officially not allowed to ever let work product touch our personal computers, personal Blackberries, or other non-secure systems. Even when we work from a computer at home, it's through a secure link to our work hard drives -- like a condom for your computer. Even working at home, there's no way to get files to cross that barrier without emailing them... and there's a record of that, of course.
I was under the impression that you could buy a newer blackberry and combine your work and personal phones into one. This sucks because I would really hate to carry around both my cell phone, and a blackberry all the time..
You can make personal calls from your work Blackberry if you want... I've never even had the phone feature enabled on mine.
You could also send personal emails from your work Blackberry and do personal browsing with it as well, as long as you don't mind each email and site being monitored and recorded (and possibly blocked).
Most analysts I know have a personal device and a work Blackberry. I'm not sure what the percentage of use for each device is.
Out of curiosity, how many analysts here give out their work emails to friends/family?
I imagine it must be a really convenient way for them to contact you because you're always carrying the blackberry around, and might not have the chance to check personal email at work (given that its probably blocked). On the other hand, all the email that comes into your work account is probably monitored, so you don't want friends accidentally sending pictures of their latest boozefest to your work account..
What do you guys do?
BTW, do you get lunch/dinner breaks normally (ie when you aren't on a strict deadline? I've always worked out during my lunch breaks at previous jobs and then ate at my desk...is this doable?
If you get spotted working out by an MD, that could look awful. Also, most people eat at their desks to beging with, and even those who don't are back within 30 mins. No one hour lunches in IB. I work out a lot, too, so you will just have to get up at 6.30 several days a week and get it done before work. Working out during lunch is not even an option
Overall I'd say most of what is up here is generally accurate, but it totally depends on the type of people you work with and who manage you.
A cool director knows how stressful things are and realizes that working out, taking 45 min - 1 hour lunches, and reading ESPN (all of course in moderation) keep you sane and productive. That being said, when shit is hitting the fan, you need to be chained to your desk 40 hours straight and only get up to go to the bathroom.
Just feel it out like anything else. There are no hard and fast rules.
On a related note, I don't believe there is real downtime, per se. There is ALWAYS something you could be doing that will eventually need to get done. But there is plenty of non-crunch time, where things don't need to be done IMMEDIATELY. And this where you work out, etc.
Maybe my experience wasn't the norm, but I'm not jumping groups or banks because the people are great.
Let that be a lesson to any current or future senior bankers in how to keep good people.
"Lol, you're such a dork."
World's biggest, my friend. (And it can be hard to truly thrive in investment banking without being one. Strong analytics, ability to build/manage complex systems, and a thirst for "why" are critical qualities of the successful analyst.)
Now let's not continue this pattern of you following me across threads and posting replies solely to insult me. It's a disservice to the original poster and to all of those who try to keep the post somewhere close to topic. Thanks, man. I know you'll understand.
Allright babe, I'll leave you alone, I'm just so used to hazing and giving people a hard time that I can't help myself sometimes, Old habits die hard I guess.
What the heck is a "trebuchet"? That sounds awfully useful :-)
A-
Trebuchets are the most accurate of medieval siege engines. They require some relatively complex engineering/math/logistics to put together and use... but they were powerful enough to shape European warfare for over a thousand years. They were generally viewed as the pinnacle of pre-Renaissance European engineering feats... not that that's saying much from a 21st-century standpoint.
Part of the challenge of actually using them in the field is the fact that, more or less by definition, siege engines are built onsite from native wood without complicated or specialized tools... and by soldiers, at that. So the art of joinery, the ability to manage teams, and the knowledge of stresses and elasticity across numerous native woods is key.
They're tremendously useful if you're laying siege to a walled construction, but their portability leaves much to be desired. These days they're useful more to understand medieval engineering than for throwing things at people.
Unless you have some spare cows you'd like to get rid of, that is.
In the modern era, I think both Monty Python and the radio guy on Northern Exposure have tried throwing cows with a trebuchet. I'm sure you're referencing the first, but I just want to show off being old enough to have watched Northern Exposure.
Even the resident MILF can't match that!
I used to love building trebuchets in age of empires 2.
I built a trebuchet with a friend in high school for a science competition. We tested the shit out of that thing until we knew exactly how much weight was needed for 1 foot intervals. Too bad it was only about 2 feet tall.
Sounds too complicated... I'm just going to have to sling a rubber band at someone instead :-)
Rubber band shooting is not as simple as you imply!
I've come to master several techniques for either starting a war in the pool or ending one with deadly precision when you've run out of balls, pens, pencils and staplers to throw around...
Oh, so YOU're the guy I sit next to, EuroMonkey. You need to cut that crap out -- if I take a rubber band in the eye, I'm coming over that cubicle wall.
Sure, but what ya gonna do? You've got to either bear up or choose to walk away. Or you can do whatever you want and go down swinging, but you'll still go down.
how often can u pop out for a smoke ?
Damn, smokers are ALWAYS going down. I really envy them because I keep forgetting to go outside and never get any sunlight or change of scene.
Then again, has anyone seen the price of a pack of smokes recently? Geez.
Same idea that smokers get to leave their desks and get some fresh air (no irony intended here)... I always pack my lunch and stay at my desk during the day. I'm in every morning at 7, and during the winter months, it is pretty easy to go the entire week without seeing natural daylight. Kind of depressing! When it is over 20 degrees outside though, I usually try to take a 10-20 minute walk outside a few times a week, depending on how long I can get away for. Nice way to refresh and refocus when I get back to my desk, get some fresh air and sunshine, and workout any problems in my head. Best of all, its a good use of periodic downtime, and I rarely feel guilty for it.
I interned at a BB last summer and we had a lounge that had a big screen and pool table. Most of the analysts and associates would hang out during their down time.
I spend my downtime at the GYM or at the bar for a quickie
go out shopping
Argggh... I had to come to work today... but I have downtime while I wait on a few things. What am I going to do? I'm going to start reading a book I ordered on Amazon:
"Bobos in Paradise"
I'm hoping it's a lame, lighthearted, funny read... fitting for my mental capacity for the day... OR I shall distract myself by rearranging my archnemesis's desk... hmmm...
I'd be blazin' and drinkin' JD if I was there on the weekends.
You wanna know what totally sucks? Director just showed up to work on Saturday. Brought his high school age kid into the office. The kid took an empty office to study for a language test. Director sees me in the office, introduces me to his kid and all of a sudden I was volunteered to tutor the kid for the freakin' next hour! How the hell did that happen? Arrgggghhh... sigh. I'm too tired for this crap :-(
You are scoring major brownie points!
Down time in IB (Originally Posted: 07/22/2012)
I'm wondering what the actual downtime during the day is like, like if you can use that toward productive endeavors. I was told that yes you work 80 hour weeks, but the time you are actually working is a fraction of that. So during the down time, would I be able to take online classes, do rosetta stone, trade a personal portfolio (assuming no clauses against that although I'm sure that's probably tricky) etc
Thanks
lol
Downtime in IB is very sporadic. There may be days where you literally don't have anything to do (often happens in August), but on the other hand there may be a string of weeks where you don't do anything but eat, sleep, and work. It's true that you won't grind away 100% of the time in the office, but in general, you won't have enough time to trade a personal portfolio (which wouldn't be a good idea anyway, as it requires large blocks of uninterrupted time, not to mention the compliance issues. On an unrelated note, the broker my firm makes me use charges absurd commissions, so I wouldn't be able to trade anyway). On the other hand, you certainly can do productive things while you're waiting for publishing to give you your turns; for example, if you're an analyst, then 15-20 minutes is enough time to crank through a good portion of a section of the GMAT.
In theory, if you want to be productive during your downtime, then you should find something that you can focus on for a couple of minutes at a time, but in reality, most analysts end up taking care of odds and ends or grabbing coffee during downtime.
I understand it's sporadic but that's not a problem, I'm just curious if it's realistic to use the time productively when it comes. I've even heard of people who put on a pager and go play squash/work out, etc, so if that were the case it wouldn't be terrible IMO. Not that I'm idealizing it and dreaming to play squash, realistically I'd be studying for CFA, learning languages, other type of studying. I'd be looking at a post MBA gig theoretically
You can certainly go to the gym in your downtime (or maybe not, depending on your firm/group's culture and the need for face time). Most of the guys I know who work out do a lot of cardio, since you're sitting around stagnant all day and it's easy to be in and out of the gym in under an hour if you just go for a quick 20-30 minute jog. Note that you shouldn't be doing this during business hours... either go before work in the morning, or at night if you get off early.
"Note that you shouldn't be doing this during business hours... either go before work in the morning, or at night if you get off early."
You probably shouldn't go to the gym during 9 to 5 hours. But I know plenty of people who go to the on-site gym in the evening (e.g. 6-7, 7-8, or 8-9) and then return to the office later that evening to finish any outstanding work.
need something to do in your down time at work? (Originally Posted: 05/27/2014)
Enjoy
//www.youtube.com/embed/eh7lp9umG2I
I'm dying
amazing
"oh my GOD do I try"
This is a really old video from back when I was in college. Just thought I would throw it out there for any of you younger guys who haven't seen it.
Down Time at Work (Originally Posted: 10/29/2009)
i have heard that there is a lot of down time in banking before 12pm as you wait for assignments. is that true? how much of your time do you spend "unproductively?"
Depends. Not every day, and certainly not predictably. The bigger pain in the ass is working on shit that you know will never make it in a pitch/client presentation/offering memo. Sometimes you know before you start an assignment...and you think to yourself, "My MD is going to change his mind three more times before we finally get something useful out of this," and three more times = 8-10 lost hours.
Jerk it in the bathroom.
Some days the downtime is huge, other days you can barely spare a minute to pee - it really just depends. There is a difference, however, between downtime and being unproductive. There are time that you will want to just relax for a minute, usually after a pitch has finally left the desk and out the door and you don't have something else immediately pressing, for example, and there are times when the day is going slowly from the boredom and you want a little something to think about or do. Rather than be unproductive, you can do some thing to get ahead, or take care of issues outside of work (while still at your desk). Check out this article for a few suggestions on downtime activities: http://www.bankonbanking.com/2009/05/12/job-downtime-%E2%80%93-take-a-n…
Beyond that, I would have to agree with F9 - it is definitely more annoying to work on something (pitch, big model, etc) that you know will never even make it to credit, or get passed credit. For example, you know it's probably bad when a senior banker drops something in your lap and says "this probably won't go anywhere, but we need to run these numbers (put together this pitch, etc) for XXX client - they want to see what this will look like." Those are days that I prefer downtime.
IBanker www.BankonBanking.com [email protected] Interview Prep, Resume Revisions, and the New Survival Guide – The most common interview questions and answers revealed! News, Articles, Products, Services and More - Stop by Now!
Down time - Recently started my gig (Originally Posted: 08/13/2014)
Recently started my gig, and have done some really interesting work. However, The nature of the beast is that as an analyst, I do support work, create a product, then the associate/manager refines the product, then the work is done. So after that there is no immediate work for me to do, and I feel like I'm in this awkward stage for a day or two of either waiting for the client to respond so we can continue working, or wait to start a new project/engagement.
Anyone else find themselves in that situation? What do you do to make it look like you're not just sitting there twiddling your dick? I've started looking for potential new opportunities for the group (but wtf do I know) and building models for practice.
Though I do enjoy twiddling my appendages, I'll usually read ER reports and primers, hf letters/speeches/research, practice modeling, study for any upcoming tests (CFA, online courses, etc). Best to be seen and not heard from complaining about lack of work
OP - depending on your office / firm, you are often expected to contribute to the practice i.e. "extra-curriculars". This can range from:
All of these are the kind of stuff that separates the top bucket from the middle of the pack. Your performance and ability to lead these (often you'll get more responsibility with these kinds of things since managers/partners have no time to deal with them) is critical when you are an analyst associate.
To be more involved, ask your leadership. Ask your slightly more experienced peers. Everyone in consulting is a keener - we can't help by be involved like we were in school :)
What to do during "down time"? (Originally Posted: 12/29/2013)
I imagine there must be some lulls during a 16-hour day, so what do analysts do during those periods. Do you have to feign going through an Excel spreadsheet or re-re-touching up a presentation you've already sent along, or can you browse excel tutorials, read an article on NYT, read about current deals, or even something like browse reddit or go on YouTube?
Stare at excel and hope someone puts you out of your misery
Is that true? Is reading even something like DealBook frowned upon?
Watch beck videos online and do jumping jacks (for the ladies).
Strip clubs, drugs and blow a load at the casino. (i know, i am fucking alpha)
Use it to get ahead on the following: 1. Personal to-do's (clean up inbox, dry cleaning, HIT THE GYM, etc)
You're probably on several projects (live/pitches/etc), so you can use it to get ahead on of these other items
Socialize with the senior guys. Ask them out for coffee. Your staffer and MDs pound the table for you come bonus time and they're not going to remember you (and hence, can't fight for you) if you don't make yourself known and prove your worth. Chances are there's a very well-known and widely respected MD in whatever group you're in, so make an effort to know him and have him know you
If all else, go through models that are pretty nuanced about different transaction structures and spend some time going through them to get familiar. Or maybe spend some time creating spreadsheet macros that'll make your life easier come work time
Maybe start planning exit-opps? So if I were you, I would try making myself a better investor as I am interested in HFs after my IB analyst stint.
Best use of down time? (Originally Posted: 04/04/2008)
A lot of my posts focus on how to become a better analyst. Here's another...
Many people have posted about down time and how a lot of time at the office is spent waiting on other people to review your work and give you feedback.
How do the best analysts use their down time? Reading up on the industries they cover? Double and triple checking their work? Networking while somehow staying in the office? What is the most efficient way to use down time?
Browsing WSO?!
I recommend having a pair of dumbbells by one’s desk, as solace during those interminable conference calls.
GMAT - CFA - GYM
read read read
I usually take a stroll to see what everyone else is up to and just shoot the breeze...
Facebook --> CNN -->You Tube -->BBC -->WSO ; Repeat
my number one being...if you're experiencing increasing down time in length or frequency, talk to your associate/staffer and ask what else you can do to contribute...you'll come across as eager and interested - but pace yourself of course, sometimes you need a little down time "just to be", in which case you should:
those are my tops....
Winton since you haven't even gotten your first bonus yet, how do you know your tips will "go along way to improving your overall perception at the firm"???
I usually jerk off to iPod porn in the bathroom stall.
relieves stress and rejuvenates the mind and body.
(dont forget to lay some newspapers down...)
"are you trying to get a rise out of me, agent Kujan?" comes to mind....
It's all there, read my posts - PROPERLY this time. I speak on what I know and that's mostly from experience.
I think I'll have a cigarette now.
After that, you can apologize.
Down time - Downtime in the office (Originally Posted: 07/07/2009)
What does everyone do during their downtime in the office over the course of the day...
I can only check my gmail, ESPN.com, WSJ etc so many times...
I actually put out an article on this very topic a few weeks ago on my site that touches on some of the more productive things you can do during job downtime. If you're interested in the less productive and more fun, I often go with Excel pacman, excel mini golf, excel sonic, use bloomberg to visit different blogs, news sites, and even hulu once in a while.
IBanker www.BankonBanking.com Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking
www.redhotchess.com
I research and trade stocks. Helps make up for this year's light bonuses...
Don't banks make you disclose EVERY single trade you make for your personal account???
engadget.com is good for techies.
subscribe to a bunch of blogs in google reader and you'll never get bored. I guarantee
Yes. Most trades must be preapproved except for ETFs and open-end mutual funds. Most banks also have a 30 day minimum holding period to prevent short-term trading. There is also usually a blackout list of stocks you cannot trade (clients of the bank).
My bank is far less restrictive, as are many others that I know of. It depends on what group you're in. Since I'm in M&A, we have a few clients on the blackout list, but as long as our group doesn't have material nonpublic info on a company, I can trade the stock. I imagine this may be different if you were in ECM or on the trading side.
The "preapproval" is automatic - it's basically a web form that checks the ticker against the blackout list. Nothing that really cramps my style.
Managing down time (Originally Posted: 12/14/2013)
Hi everyone,
As many of you know, a career in investment banking comes with unpredictable hours. After my summer internship I realized that part of the job (at least in my group) is also putting in face time even if you don't have work. I spent most of this time reading the news, reviewing old models, and creating my own models, however I can't see myself doing this while I'm a full-time analyst. It got old really fast and I would rather do something more useful with my time than creating repetitive models. Instead I'm considering learning how to code or developing a potential start-up idea.
What do you do with your down time? Or do you full-time analysts even have substantial down time to do anything?
Thanks!
wait you sat around reviewing old models during your internship all summer long? really? wow... i was surfing buzzfeed, reddit, and watching movies in my downtime after the first week.
your order is backwards
Make yourself a better investment analyst
Go to the gym midday, take a long lunch, grab coffee with people in similar jobs or adjacent jobs in your industry, screw around on the internet, watch sports, catch up on a TV show.
Most of these aren't advisable in your first six months. By that time, your work product will be established. If people know you work hard when needed and produce great work, they aren't going to bitch about you watching Suits on one monitor while your deals are slow (still good to have Alt+Tab ready though).
As has been stated, you should be trying to get as much stuff done as possible during your first six months and shouldn't be spending time at work on stuff that isn't work.
But after six months, start studying for the CFA, make sure you are getting enough exercise. If they need you to be there 16 hours/day but only need 12 hours of work, don't waste those other 4 hours.
How are you guys able to do this? My bosses sit right behind my cubical all day. I'm hesitant to even check the weather.
Hahahahaha, LOL. That sucks, bro.
place your body strategically to block parts of your screen from behind you
Can you not get a privacy screen?
Funny I run into this question when 80% of my day was downtime today (Recently wrapped up a few pitches and engaged deals are even paced for now). I read a bunch of articles from different places (Grantland, Deadspin, and some other places). The problem with downtime in IB is that is really is sporadic (even though today was the rare exception). You make the most of the downtime, if lucky to have it...
You get the same issue with consulting, the workload varies massively from week to week, even day to day.
I tend to run personal errands, surf Facebook, read the news, go for a walk, grab coffee, chat to colleagues.
But on the more work related side I will email colleagues who work in areas I'm interested in getting into, research relevant/interesting topics, basically do stuff that will help my career growth.
This is probably a dumb questiom. But lets at you are one of those creative types and use your downtime to write a book on a company computer. If you were to later sell said book would your company have rights to sue/ take some of your income?
How would they know?
I had absolutely nothing to do last week. It was like a little reward for having pulled all-nighters 4 days in a row a fortnight ago. Don't remember how I spent my downtime, but I'm fairly certain it was meaningless. Wasn't Facebook access restricted at work btw?
If there's a gym nearby, is it possible in IBD to go do a 45 min-1 hour session instead of doing mindless BS at your desk?
for those of you entered banking during down times (Originally Posted: 06/28/2008)
Can someone who has had experience in banking during the tough times such as 2001 comment on this? I am going to be a first year analyst right now and lots of people are start telling me that it's not worth it doing banking anymore because bonuses are gonna be nothing in the upcoming years and banks are not going to recover its profitability in a while.
Do you think it's still worthwhile to do it for the exit opportunities? Did you stay in banking during the recession years and do you think you made the right decision?
Thanks
No banking sucks when markets are bad, you should quit now.
Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend
dude, stick with it if u have it. yea, its gonna suck 4 a while but when times are good, it will show u were commited and it will matter. however, if u are young, do it until u figure out the next move. a job is better than no job, especially in banking. if this is really what u want then stick with it. another good option is to get a jd/mba from a top tier school and re-enter the business world. times are tough and u dont want to make a drastic move and regret it later. if u dont want to do banking anymore then atleast have a clear and concise plan.just my 2 cents.
this is probably the best time to get into banking. when times are better, you'll be higher up on the chain. next time there's a boom, you'll be able to ride the wave as a vp
bonuses are not close to nothing. bonuses are still in 50-60K range which means you still make about 120K which is a lot more than you would make in any other job as a college grad.
You don't do banking for the comp in the first 2 years anyway. You do it for the comp that follows in banking or in a myriad of other opportunities that banking experience opens doors to.
Besides a 50k bonus instead of an 80k bonus is still pretty damn good for a 23 year old.
Just be grateful you got in while lots of other qualified people didn't--just bad luck of graduation year timing.
I was one of these people who wasn't able to get in during the last downturn because recruiting at my non-target dried up. Fortunately, I was able to break in down the road and then move over into a successful PE career. But it wasn't easy--I had to scrape my way back in.
The train left the station and you got on just in time. Be thankful.
As one of those who had a job and lost it before I began, I would give anything to be in your shoes. Finding another job right now is miserable and I agree with mlamb, hang in there now and by the time the economy recovers, you will be at the level where the pay really matters. At that point, the comp will make up for whatever you may have lost in these first couple of years. Stick it out... or let me trade positions with you, you can search for new jobs and ill gladly slave over a comp for 2 years for "only" 120k per year.
In the interviews didnt you say you wanted to do it for the challenge, not the money?
Ok, now prove it.
Jimbo
Interviewers still buy that? Hilarious...
If you're doing I-banking for the money then don't get into the game. Even when times are good one has to have some strong underlying motivations greater than money to withstand the very real tradeoffs of poor romantic relationships, cancelled vacations, personality changes, and harsh treatment by "strong" personalities. When the hours are tabulated junior I-bankers can make less than minimum wage. You can make more money doing something entrepreneurial if your motivation is money... imagine what you can do if you worked that hard for yourself.
Having said that, I-banking is a great environment to learn business from the periphery as an advisor or by raising capital. It instills or strengthens work ethic, attention to detail, analytics, negotiation skills, etc. I stuck it out during the 2001-2003 slow period and made it beyond 7 rounds of layoffs and through my analyst program. The deals I worked on then as well as the experience of making it through a fearful and paranoid environment is now paying career dividends.
"Low" bonuses are better in your early years when you get 50k instead of 90k, then when you are higher up and you get 500k instead of 2mm.
Considering how many people are getting laid off and how many more qualified people are not getting any job opportunities, you should look really strong 2-3 years from now when you are looking for your next move. You'll be one of a small group of people who survived the credit crisis with a job and therefore will have SOME deal experience to show to PEs/HFs/MBA programs. It might not be the deal experience guys 2-3 years ago were getting, but it's a helluva lot better than 95% of people right now, since they won't be in IB at all.
And as for the pay, you're getting a $10k sign-on, $60k base, and likely a $50k bonus in a year. That's $110k all-in. Even factoring in the brutal hours, you're still earning around $20-25/hr, which is way better than a lot of people are getting. I know several smart kids whose only options were taking a $20k job with Fidelity or working construction.
"Fidelity or working contstruction"- bullshit.
You could at least get a better non-finance job: assuming, of course, you were really as smart and motivated as ibers are supposed to be.
And of course interviewers don't buy "its not for the money." They know you wouldn't be there if you made $60k a year. They were in your shoes a while ago.
If you're starting of as an analyst, as far as I'm concerned, your bonus doesnt fluctuate that much when you're at the bottom of the foodchain. Bank bonus pools are bank-wide and not based on each individual dept. So sure the credit depts will drag you down a bit but all in all, you'll prolly make 100% bonus or so im guessing. Or around $50k im pretty sure.
What do you do doing your down time? (Originally Posted: 05/14/2014)
Banking involves a lot of down time when you are sitting around waiting for comments or staffings, so what do you do with all of your down time to make it productive?
Study undergraduate math subjects via MIT's OpenCourseWare (http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm).
Leaving random comments on this site.
I tend to do that more when we're busy and I really should be doing work.
I do all of my MBA reading and homework. Go on various blogs/forums. Text/facebook/twitter. I have a lot of downtime.
Free online courses, reading e-books, CFA prep, WSO. The usual.
Fap/jerk-off...am I right???
what the fuck man...it's just "fap break". Nothing more. Jerking-off at work is so disrespectful. "Fap breaks" are very different things.
Could you please elaborate on the difference between "Fap breaks" and jerking-off?
One is more dignified than the other. Please see the differences below.
BAD : "Yo bros, pretty beat over here, gonna go jerk-off and blow a load on the wall in the bathroom to get me going. Anybody wanna join?"
GOOD: "Good morning Mr. MD. I completed your 100 page presentation last night and a fresh copy is on your desk. I'll be in the restroom on a quick fap break to release a bit of stress. If you need to contact me, my blackberry will be by my side."
Totally different.
SSits, check out two quantitative concepts which have mastered the abstract syllogisms of finance, but that are generally unaccepted by less ingenuous finance pros. Google and research "Ito Calculus" and the "Black-Scholes Method (or "Black-Scholes" equation).
@"Countess Capital LLP" - Thanks for the tips.
Black-Scholes - I covered this in CFA, although without much understanding of the underlying finance maths. I look forward to approaching it with better understanding.
I'm less "aspiring to embark on a career in finance", more "banker in his late 30s doing this for fun".
"Fun " an excellent description my man...
When studying Balck-Scholes think about options (futures) and how they are required and/or related to preparing an Initial Public Offering.
Down time: how’s yours going? (Originally Posted: 11/26/2010)
Thanksgiving is over and black Friday is coming to a close.
Two days away from the computer screens, two days away from editing slides, two days away from the trading floor stress, and two days away from another pitch book mess.
Two now done and two more to come.
Among the things to be thankful for, this long weekend surely is one. So aside from the festivities, how have you guys been spending yours?
I for one have embraced my inner guy on the couch, wasting my days watching DVD’s between the gastronomic revelry and customary scotch swills with friends and family.
Layer Cake was
by the way.
Thinking of Fight Club for tonight.
My 4:30am alarm doesn’t sound but I still wake up for it.
No early workout for me today, or yesterday for that matter.
After the usual checks and reads I’m flummoxed for not having anything to do, so I go say hello to an old friend; the 4 hour siesta.
Rinse. Repeat for tomorrow.
How about you guys?
Have you been bumming around as well or have you been up to something more intrepid?
And to those who had to work today, here’s to you; Salud.
Have a great weekend guys.
Jorge,
My Thanksgiving has been spent toiling away on a few things that I need to do coupled with spending time with friends. It's rare that I can actually enjoy a few days off instead of working through the holiday like I did the last three years.
In terms of leisure, I have been catching up on some movies I haven't seen in a while. I broke out Yojimbo (A Must See for anyone that loves classic Westerns), The Man with No Name Trilogy (Classic Clint Eastwood under the direction of Sergio Leone) and Le Samourai (Eddie, seeing as your in Paris, you might appreciate this French Minimalist Neo-Noir film by Jean-Pierre Mellville. For everyone else, this is a tale about a perfectionist hitman whose hit goes wrong. An outstanding piece of work, this film definitely made it's mark on both Hollywood and Hong Kong, influencing directors like John Woo, Walter Hill and Jim Jarmusch. Woo paid homage to Mellville in his film The Killer and Jarmusch's tribute was in Ghost Dog, where his wandering samurai had an "electronic key" to break into any luxury car akin to Mellville's Jef (played by Alain Delon) and his massive collection of keys made to break into any Citroen DS on the streets of Paris. If you happen to like this, then you must see Le Cercle Rouge, also by Mellville and staring Delon). Outside of movies, i am nearly finished building a rather large (48'x48') coffee table. I finished the top earlier today and now have to sand it down to 220 Grit and stain it.
All in all, this is a good thanksgiving.
Good call on Layer Cake by the way. It was extremely well done. When I saw it back in 2004, I knew Matthew Vaughn would have a successful career producing films. This has a Pre-Bond Daniel Craig proving how much of a bad ass he is. Colm Meany, Sienna Miller, Michael Gambon, and Tom Hardy (if you haven't seen Bronson, see it now and you'll understand how awesome Hardy really is) help round out the cast and make for an interesting choice of characters. For any of you Bond nuts, this film is one of the biggest reasons why Craig got the role of Bond.
Stop throwing meatballs in my sweet spot bro...Le Samourai, wooooow! I grew up on Delon and Belmondo. Hard to believe French dudes we're once the epitome of cool and masculine.
Lately been rehashing the Westerns and two that stand head and shoulders above the crowd are Unforgiven and Once Upon a Time in the West. Surprised you didn't comment on Claudia Cardinale's pic when I posted it a few weeks back (now that I know you're a buff).
Of all the stuff you mentioned, nothing gets me like "The Killer". Still get goose bumps when I see a dove thinking of that final shootout.
It has been a skiing adventure... More runs open next week (season is official in December).
DVD recommendation for you: Children of Men. It has very impressive cinematography, to say the least.
EDIT: typo
Absolutely, 100% agree here. One of my favorites. Anyone who hasn't seen it should get their hands on a copy
James, where are you skiing?
James,
Enjoy the slopes and when you speak of Clive Owen...speak of "Croupier"!
Every man, woman and child must take time out of their year to ski "The Greatest Snow on Earth."
Searching Netflix now.
Just because I'm a film buff doesn't mean I need to all Harry Knowles on the world. I also don't like bringing it up unless the opportunity presents itself.
If I really wanted to discuss Cardinale, I would have brought up Fellini's 8 1/2, the original The Pink Panther w/ Peter Sellers (another comic genius) and of course, Once Upon a Time in the West, another great film by Leonoe. Unforgiven is great, but there are so many better films.
I will admit that I am still learning, but everyone that is a buff should still admit to learning new things.
I finally rewatched Hard Boiled and I forgot how good Woo's work was back in the 80s. He really understood the finer art of cinematography and fight choreography.
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