Duke vs U of I

I am debating between Duke and U of I engineering in hopes of breaking into IB or S&T at a top firm on wall street or Chicago. I would easily choose Duke if it weren't for the extra 100k it would cost me to attend, a total of 240k for an undergrad degree. I got into U of I bioengineering but will probably switch to ECE. At Duke, I would probably do BME/ECE or EE/economics- whatever would benefit me more to break into the business world. Duke's prestige and networking are the reason I'm contemplating spending the extra 100k. Would attending Duke be worth the cost differential or should i just go instate at U of I? What are the differences in % of engineers who get recruited into business at each school?

 
Best Response

1.) In both cases, are you sure you want to study Engineering or CS?

2.) Are you sure you want to go to Wall Street?

If yes to 1 and if there is at least some uncertainty about #2, it is difficult to make a case for #20 Duke Engineering vs. #5 UIUC.

My answer would be different for Duke Finance vs. UIUC Finance. But for Engineering, UIUC is a school that has placements comparable to MIT, CMU, and Stanford- and that includes placements into the high frequency and Quantitative Strategies space, which seems to be where finance is going.

I think the tricky part is going to be what if you're not sure you want to study engineering. Engineering is an exceptionally versatile degree, but if you want to study something else, Duke is going to be better for Econ, for instance. (However UIUC has an excellent Accounting program that places folks into a lot of MM firms.)

Duke is a great school. If you're doing Engineering, I think UIUC will save you $100K, make you a better engineer, and get you a better job out of undergrad.

 

Yes I want to study engineering as I enjoy math and science but I want to go into IB or trading, hopefully landing in NYC or Chicago. I've heard that top firms see Duke as a target school for recruitment of consultants and investors which is why I'm considering it. I don't know if I'll be able get into IB for top firms at U of I. Will I have similar opportunities to get into wall street from U of I and duke as an engineer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Duke's overall prestige will give me a better opportunity. But exactly how large is that difference and would duke be worth the extra?

 
ApothicPaul:

Yes I want to study engineering as I enjoy math and science but I want to go into IB or trading, hopefully landing in NYC or Chicago.
I've heard that top firms see Duke as a target school for recruitment of consultants and investors which is why I'm considering it. I don't know if I'll be able get into IB for top firms at U of I. Will I have similar opportunities to get into wall street from U of I and duke as an engineer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Duke's overall prestige will give me a better opportunity. But exactly how large is that difference and would duke be worth the extra?

U of I ECE or CS will get you into Citadel, Jump Trading, Getco, or perhaps DE Shaw. It will get you into a Strat role on Wall Street. It will also get you into Google or Microsoft, of course. All of this is contingent on your overall competence, of course.

It will be tougher to get into IBD, though. If you're aiming for IBD, Duke Econ will open more doors than UIUC Engineering.

In terms of prestige, within Engineering, UIUC blows Duke out of the water. Outside of Engineering, Duke wins, but not to quite the same extent.

If you had told me you wanted to do high frequency or work at Google, I'd be telling you that there shouldn't even be a debate about this, that UIUC wins hands down before we even get to tuition.

Given the weird situation here, where you're not set on IBD or trading, UIUC will be stronger in some situations and Duke will be stronger in others. UIUC will give you a better shot at the quant shops and high frequency firms; Duke will give you a better shot at IBD. For S&T or Research in NYC, depending on the role, UIUC may be a bit stronger or Duke may be a bit stronger. UIUC will generally win in the roles that require quantitative competencies and Duke will win in roles that require branding.

So I've laid out the strengths and weaknesses of both schools. I guess I need to throw the question back at you. Which of these is better?

UIUC:

-Save $100K -Have an advantage for engineering or coding roles -More prestige in engineering circles. -Have an advantage for high frequency and Systematic Strategy roles -More flexibility to change fields without changing degrees.

Duke:

-Have an advantage for IBD -More prestige outside of engineering, at least in the US. -Have an advantage for non-tech consulting -More flexibility to change majors without changing schools

 

Abacab, sorry but could you clarify on what you're suggesting is the safer route. If you're referring to Duke, I would say the cost is a huge risk, but could potentially pay off. Also, Are you recommending studying just econ at duke? It's just that I've worked hard in math and science and I do enjoy it, so I'd wanna continue that and it'd also be a great backup while also advancing my analyzing skills. I'm beginning to slide towards U of I, clinging to the fact that if I work hard, I'll have opportunities. Am I wrong to think this?

 
ApothicPaul:

Abacab,
sorry but could you clarify on what you're suggesting is the safer route. If you're referring to Duke, I would say the cost is a huge risk, but could potentially pay off. Also, Are you recommending studying just econ at duke? It's just that I've worked hard in math and science and I do enjoy it, so I'd wanna continue that and it'd also be a great backup while also advancing my analyzing skills. I'm beginning to slide towards U of I, clinging to the fact that if I work hard, I'll have opportunities. Am I wrong to think this?

Pretty much what Midtown guy said. Almost all banks recruit at Duke and take 5-6 or more kids every year. If you don't want to do banking, all consulting firms are there too. If you are set on doing banking (or even consulting), I don't know how engineering adds value. Yes, it's respected, but the downside is pretty high too. I was EE and grades suffer. Going into college, everyone thinks they will work hard and be the top dog. Idk how awesome you are in math/science, but at a place like Duke, most kids got 750+ in their SAT math, took Calc BC or AP Physics (or IB counterparts). Most of your classmates in college are about same caliber and things don't work out as planned for everyone, whether at Duke or UIUC.

You, me or no one else can predict how things will turn out for you in 3 years and how hard you'll end up working. Off campus recruiting isn't fun (just see all the threads here). EOD UIUC or GaTech are good engineering school, but not a feeder for bulge bracket banks or MBBs.

 
abacab:

There are some confusions around if IP started in what would be generally considered a back office support role. EOD more people go to Wall Street front office jobs from Duke compared to U of I. Unless you are some math/programming genius ready to win Putnam competition, go the safer route. Don't do EE and blow your GPA at Duke though.

Well, there's confusion because I don't know if Lehman Fixed Income Analytics was front office (Most fixed income traders over 29-30 on the street will have heard of this group.). I'm not sure it mattered. The job paid like front office and people left for PM roles at hedge funds like it was the front office. People turned down trading offers at MM firms and lesser known prop shops for this job like it was the front office. A few people also left for trading roles at high frequency firms. Back then, we worked for traders developing strategies for them. Today, we have traders working for us to execute our strategies. It certainly wasn't IT, but it wasn't a client facing role either, though it was a market-facing role.

So I don't call it front office but I don't go around calling it back-office either.

Today, banks will have teams called Strats that do similar work to what I did. Most of these groups are client facing. IBD Strats teams will execute deals for insurance companies without the involvement of general IBD. Trading and Research Strats teams will develop and market their own strategies, although some groups will still work for the traders. A UIUC CS or ECE major with strong communication skills would have no trouble getting hired into these groups, assuming they have the GPA. (If they don't, they can go work for Microsoft. Microsoft hires folks from UIUC who barely manage to graduate but can do well in a coding interview.)

Today, you don't have to go the Analytics route. Citadel, Getco, Jump, TMG, Blander will all hire you straight out of undergrad. If you go to Wall Street, you can earn $150K your first year; if you go to Jump, you can earn $500K your first year.

Or, if trends in tech and big data continue at the going rate, you may very well be able to earn $200K/year when you graduate in CS or ECE working 45 hours/week in a low stress job. That's the beauty of an ECE degree. You're cut out for being a quant, being a consultant, being an engineer, being a trader, being a programmer, or being a PhD student in ~30 different fields. (For the record I studied CS.) And UIUC vs Duke on ECE is like UChicago vs. Tulane. Tulane is a respectable private school; Duke is a respectable school and does not turn out bad engineers, but why go there when you can go somewhere so much better.

And we haven't even gotten to tuition yet.

 

There is a consistent precedence of UIUC engineers (particularly ECE) getting placed into ibanking analyst programs at BBs for over a decade. Those opportunities will not be spoon fed to you, as on-campus recruiting will not be as stong as it will be at Duke. As long as you have the GPA and a personality, you will get a shot at an interview, and at the EOD that's all you can ask for, even coming from a target school. Unless you're absolutely sure about doing engineering, you should still consider Duke (despite the cost). If for whatever reason you have a change of heart (very possible while you're in college), or your GPA starts to suffer from the engineering courseload and you feel like you'd be more competitve majoring in something else (also possible), getting a non-engr degree from Duke will give you a much greater shot at Wall Street.

 

You realize that IlliniProgrammer is a UIUC grad right? His posts are incredibly biased. Duke is a much, much better school. They aren't even comparable. The only reason Duke's engineering school is ranked 20th is because it is really small (Harvard suffers from the same issue). If you look at faculty productivity per capita, Duke's engineering will blow UIUC out of the water.

 

IlliniProgrammer's posts are on point here. The OP is interested in studying engineering, saving money, and working in S&T (or IBD).. And it just happens that UIUC engineering is outstanding and checks all these boxes. The per capita argument simply isn't compelling enough, although Duke recruiting is better overall (and is a much better option for breaking into IBD).

 

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