Early Career Switch Conundrum

Longtime lurker, making my first post as I start to take action on a career change. Couldn't find much on this topic via the search bar and would love to get some opinions on my situation. Thanks in advance for any insight!

Background: Currently 25yo (2017 grad) living in a major southern city (DFW/Atlanta), Finance degree from a large state school with a reputation for partying. First job out of school was a trade support role at a major broker-dealer, second job was a sales role at a tech startup primarily targeting general contractors and developers working on MF and hospitality projects. Been in that second role for ~2.5 years and received a solid promotion.

Situation: Covid brought on a quarter-life crisis and I started gearing up heavily to switch into an industry I'm passionate about (CRE). The last few months have been spent learning as much as possible, getting the REFM certs, tearing through the Linneman book, and modeling deals found on Loopnet. I'm pretty confident in my knowledge and think I could perform well in an entry-level role - problem is, because I'm a few years out of UG I'm not getting looks for entry-level roles. Additionally, I've moved around a few times since UG and have no network in my new city, although I do plan to stay. Had a few conversations with recruiters and they suggest I look at more sales oriented roles which I have no interest in. 

LT Goal: Get a few years experience before 30, go back to school for MBA, leverage MBA into an acquisitions or development role. 

I'm not picky on where I get my start (lending, IS, brokerage, V&A, etc), more-so just concerned with getting a foot in and getting some deal reps. With that in mind, I'm curious to know if anyone has any insight on certain roles and/or firms that may have a reputation for being open to hiring folks with non-RE experience? I've had a lot of experience reviewing construction docs (project manuals, material takeoffs, arch drawings, etc.) but that's about my only relevant professional experience. Planning to start cold emailing HEAVILY after new years and would love to get ya'lls thoughts on where to focus.

TL:DR - 25yo with loosely related RE experience looking for advice on where to focus networking/job search efforts. 

 

I think that with your background you should be able to network your way into an IS analyst role at brokerage shop. You will need to work on your story about "why real estate", but that shouldn't be too hard of a story to spin based on your current job role. The main hurdle you will face is the perception that you don't have the analytical/ modelling skills that they are looking for. I would look into getting ARGUS certified if you have the means. While I know its expensive, and you will most likely learn on the job anyway, if it comes down to two candidates that I am looking to hire as an analyst, with all else being equal, I am going to choose the kid with the ARGUS experience. 

 

Appreciate the response. I've definitely considered pulling the trigger on Argus but would hate to drop 1500 and end up breaking into a role that doesn't use it. Now I'm thinking I might subsidize it with my stimulus check.

Sounds like you might have some experience vetting candidates. Any insight on how someone a few years removed from undergrad is viewed vs hiring fresh grads? Would mid-market firms be more likely to consider it as opposed to the JLL/CBREs?

 

In my opinion, I don't care if you are fresh out of undergrad or you are coming to me with a few years experience as long as you have a passion for real estate, you will grind and be able to perform in the role, and I don't see you as a flight risk. As it has been repeated on this board many times before, RE is a relationship business, and you need to play up your skill set and network like crazy.

As for mid-market firms vs. JLL/CBRE/etc. it really depends on which city you are in. Certain teams are stronger in certain markets, you may have a better shot at a mid market firm, but the role might be a lot of cold calling and not much modelling vs. an IS analyst role at one of the bigger brokerages. Really depends on the experience you are looking for.

 

Look for a valuations role, the others will be very competitive, and that’s for those with relevant experience.

Valuations was my foot in the door and looking back three years later, it’s done wonders. Most underrated first job and gets unnecessarily dogged on this site.

Edit: network with whoever you feel like, there are no wrong moves and you can pull the “new to RE” card and can ask beginner questions to seniors. Cast a wide net and I’d bet you’ll find something with some effort.

 

Thanks for the insight. Gotta admit it's definitely the function I've done the least research into. I saw some job postings for "Transaction and Advisory" roles at Big 4 firms, is this the kind of role you got started in? Appraisal?

 

T&A at the Big Four are more or less the same as an appraisal job, but I think more emphasis on taxes and value advisory? I really don't know as I didn't start there but I know people have gone that route and successfully exited. To answer your question though, yes I started in appraisal at a small boutique firm in the Midwest.

Wasn't much but it was honest work and got me tf outta the Midwest.

 

If you're trying to break into a CRE job with your current experience, then I definitely agree with the other 2 posters that IS or valuations/commercial appraisal is the easiest way. As TheDiplomats mentioned, valuations is seriously underrated and is actually a great place to start. Alternatively, if you are planning to go back to school anyways, I think your background is the type of background where an MSRE will help you a lot (you could get an MBA down the road if you really want to). The pros of an MSRE from somewhere like Columbia/NYU is that it is easier to get into than a top MBA, you can take CRE internships during the day, especially since you'd be in NYC, while taking night classes, it is cheaper and can be shorter, you get a solid brand name, and you can break into a decent CRE jobs faster than an MBA. The cons are that firms that really value brand names may ding you right off the bat, so it depends on what type of firm you want to be at at the end of the day. If you are a megafund REPE or die type of person, then you'll likely need a top MBA. If you are happy with pretty much any other firm/role outside of megafunds (MM REPE, development, CRE Lending/originations, etc...) then an MSRE will give you a solid shot. However, as I've mentioned in many previous posts, the most important thing is to get relevant internships during your MSRE. Your background is pretty similar to mine when I was first applying to MSRE programs and although I didn't learn shit at the MSRE, the network and "rebranding" helped me land really great jobs in dev and REPE. Feel free to read my previous posts on this topic or PM me if you have any questions

 

Awesome info, great to hear opinions on MSRE vs MBA. I've actually got no ambitions of megafund life (not a cultural fit for me) and have looked into some in-state MSRE programs that seem to be relatively well respected at least locally. I'm giving myself a year to try to network in and if that falls flat I'll go back to school. Thanks for weighing in and I may PM with some questions about your experience on the dev side

 

I went the MBA route, came from construction, and needed the finance knowledge. My two cents is that a) MBAs aren't only for the megafund types, and b) the network is what will determine the long-term value of the degree (outside of the name brand). What you learn will help in the short term, securing internships, interviewing and the like, but after that is where your network really comes in handy, and networks are very geographically centered. If you want to stay in the area and the in-state MSRE programs have a large alumni base locally, then that's great. If the alumni aren't anywhere impressive or where you want to be (geographically and professionally), then you'll likely just be traveling down the same path. 

 
Most Helpful
Mike_Wazowski

Finance degree from a large state school with a reputation for partying.

So you will never realize this browsing the pages of WSO, but the vast majority of people working in commercial real estate started very similarly to you. I quoted the state school finance degree part because that is literally where I started from (and a good portion of my close friends in the industry who are alum and now in senior roles, amazing what 10-15 yrs post graduation can do). 

There was post in the last few days with a title like "advice for the younglings" or something like that. In summary, my advice was simple, START. The best job is the one you get offered. All that matters is you get in the game. Where/what doesn't matter much. 

Personally, to your situation, I would advise two things:

1. Leverage your construction experience (reading docs is legit) - Owners and developers have roles that can be defined as "project management" or even part of "property/asset management" that can benefit from this directly (i.e. you can talk to the the AEC professionals they hire). This can also be known as being an "owner's rep". It's not just "big" ground up projects, but tenant fit-outs and capex require competency in this area. Merge the finance degree background, and you are a good fit for these roles (still requires excel modeling and merging up with budgets, proformas, and the whole "investment" side). 

2. Leverage your alumni base. In a big southern city, a large % of the real estate professionals will come from state schools (Ivys don't carry much weight like in the NE and west coast). So, using LinkedIn and other sources, find alum from your school working in CRE and focus energy there. Don't limit to just "finance UG" people, search all degrees and grad programs as well. Should also see if your school as a real estate program, center, board, and/or student club (all could be helpful, even if you didn't participate while a student). If this doesn't land you something in 6 months, you just didn't try hard enough. 

Finally, I would say to be very agnostic to firm size, brand name, or other fun stuff that WSO debates passionately. A small shop is perfect, let them teach you and you work your ass off. You can move up and around, which is easier than it looks in big cities not in the NE or other "major" markets. In the end, an MSRE/D or MBA could be very smart, but I would suggest you get at least a few years of CRE experience beforehand to make really worthwhile. 

Final "bonus" tip..

- Join the big CRE organizations in your city (you probably qualify for cheaper young person membership)  - One's to look into include NAIOP, ULI (I feel these are the best in most cities), ICSC, CCIM, BOMA, IREM, and anything else that may have a local focus. Once "in" volunteer on committees and projects, great way to meet people and essentially be looked at as "in" the industry. Do not wait to get a CRE job to join, you can join now and use it to find a job, it's a smart move.

Good luck!

 

You're the man! Thanks for the thoughtful response, your logic seems very similar to how I'm rationalizing my next moves and that feels a bit reassuring. 

1) This is great and something I'll def look into. Wrote it off because I assumed dev shops/owners would only poach hires from analyst programs and the major GCs. 

2) Definitely. I have a list of about 50 alums working in RE in my market that I plan to reach out to in early-Jan after everyones shaken off the holiday hangover. I have noticed that about South in regards to how Ivy backgrounds are less "necessary", which I love. I think growing up around DC and working in the Bay Area really skewed my perception of what's possible with a state school background. 

I'm pretty simple (just want to earn an above-average living while working on the finance side of building shit or buying shit others have built), so I don't put a premium on size, brand, or other "prestige" factors that WSO loves. Definitely wouldn't be averse to a small shop - might even prefer it. I suppose those opportunities aren't typically on the job boards though

 

Sounds like a good plan. I'll note note point 1, there are smaller owners and even large owners that manage small properties and have to manage tenant turnover, fitouts, major capex, etc. This is also a third party business for a lot of prop mngt/brokerage shops. At the "lower" end of complexity and size, I don't think it will be as competitive for jobs like large scale, ground-up development. 

 

I wanted to come back to this and let ya'll know how things worked out. Through some heavy networking I got three interviews, one MF IS, one agency lending, and one build-to-rent SFR acquisitions. Interviews were sourced through alum connections and cold emailing team leads or department heads while applying. Dinged after second interview with the IS team, guy interviewing was a Princeton grad and I got the feeling my degree set me back here. Didnt get to a second round for the lending gig, which was fair tbh, I didn't know enough of the jargon.

This leaves the SFR role which I just got the offer for. A little outside of CRE-proper but seemed like an interesting niche space to be, so I'll be modeling B2R community development and existing community acquisition deals for a joint venture with a well known REPE firm. Comp landed at $70k + 20% target bonus, meets what I was looking for and seemed pretty fair for someone with no RE background. 

Might be underwhelming for the "billion-dollar skyscraper or bust" crowd, but I'm pumped to get a foot in the door and figure a transition to MF development or working on MPCs could be in the cards after grad school. Thanks again to everyone who offered advice!

 

Don't be discouraged by the fact that it isn't MF REPE. This forum, while EXTREMELY useful, tends to favor the REPE50 firms in NYC or LA. The vast majority of the CRE world doesn't have the pedigree or prestige that everyone here praises. I know plenty of people who clear $500m/year with a non target UG and no MBA

Reading through this thread... I had a very similar transition. Got into the industry around 24. Similar educational back ground and hurdles that I faced. Based on what you've put here, sounds like a great role in a niche space that is getting a lot of attention. Even better that it's got a JV with a REPE firm. Now you're in a position where you're getting direct experience and can move up or lateral after a few years. So, congrats! The hustle paid off

 

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