End of elitism
Something I've witnessed working for almost 3 years in the industry is the beginning of an end of elitism in banking. I'm at a BB and it's not just ivy league finance majors getting in. No, we've hired some finance majors from nontarget colleges, there's even some marketing research analyst folk who joined us (I think they did some certifications in financial analysis). From the conversations I have with people in the biz, it seems like the trend is toward educational meritocracy.
Your thoughts? What's your experience like?
Well more importantly, has the quality of the work (and the employees) gone up or down?
In my S&T SA class, a lot of schools from across the country were represented which was a breadth of fresh air. However, the majority of the kids still hailed from the New England area and were raised in a privileged environment. I'm not sure I would call tit elitism.
Correlation =/= causation
I think this may just have come with the evolution of the internet. Now that banks open up applications to the general public online and with sites like WSO, more kids from different schools are finding out how to get a job on Wall Street.
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Am I the only one who thought this was a troll post based on the way it was written?
Second
Second. And third.
I guess it depends on your definition... I think most incoming classes are probably at least 75% made up of kids from what would be considered top 25 schools.
Although if you broke it down by school, the top represented would still come from Ivys by a good margin.
Getting into banking is systematic. Before the Internet there was a big knowledge void and you got in by knowing people. Now you can have your resume dialed in, pound out emails from linkedin and interview and model prep from a number of Sources. If you're committed and prepare you can break into banking.
The micro coffee drinking, American Spirit Smoking, fedora wearing neck beard hipsters are finally taking over. Students are leaving school saying " why not just work 50 hours a week at a startup, and make a ton of money in a few years on an IPO". Now you can be rich and look like the pringle's man at the same time apparently. As for me, I'm still fighting the good fight to break into good old Wall Street
Lol at your hipster description, that would annoy me too. i've been away from the usa for too long.
I'm of the group to work for a startup, or at least in tech, so you guys know how I feel on that aspect
re: "I'm still fighting the good fight to break into good old Wall Street" - just curious, what's your main motivation?
Main motivation is making enough money to just buy all the pussy i want instead of marrying for it... Cause when you marry for it it's like taking out a mortgage for one pussy
Outside of money? 2 reasons really... 1. I actually found M&A to be rather interesting. You can learn so much about how to run a business, how to pitch an idea, and really influence a companies decision making process.
Chances are i'm not going to have a shot at IBD again until after an MBA. Didn't receive an off after Internship.... still looking for work. Also that description of Silicon Valley was just a joke. There really are some very bright people there. I wonder why they don't have a Silicon Valley Oasis lol
Good points. I agree with most. Just to add my view. Not to get philosophical, but I feel like IB is adjusting to the new world. It's a world where educational credentials matter increasingly less and less and employers just want proof that you can kill at the job. An extreme example of that are coders who can make fucked up amounts of money without ever having even gone to school. I know IB is very different, and is probably the most conservative industry still out there. But we're changing, guys. And maybe it's just my limited perception, but I feel like "target schools" will be a thing of the past.
PS I've got no horse in this worldview as I finished my finance & econ honors at a Canadian target.
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Look at any elite HF/PE fund. The percent of Ivy/Ivy like schools if crazy. I'd easily say like 85-90% at a lot of these shops. I'm talking Associate level. I don't think its the end of elitism but yes, more and more schools are able to get access than in the past.
Two trends are responsible for this.
First, the top students from the best colleges are not going into banking like they used to before the crisis. They're either going into tech, straight into buyside, or Phd programs, also MBB to an extent. Second, at least in S&T, given the move towards algorithmic trading, banks are looking to hire kids with strong mathematical and programming skills and value that skillset more than the college on their diploma. Of course, a strong CS kid from say MIT/Stanford will have no problem going into S&T, but school alone is not the defining criteria.
I think this is healthy in many ways. It's dangerous when recruiters at top firms basically delegate their vetting process to admissions officers at our best universities. Sure, admission to those schools send a signaling effect, but that presupposes that college admissions is an objective meritocratic process, which it certainly is not.
Ok; that surprises me. I thought S&T desks have moved towards hiring almost exclusively STEM kids. When I talked to S&T desks while in my mba program, they all said that they prefer hiring undergrads from STEM backgrounds since they can do the work that MBAs do while being half the price.
^haha loser.
Exeter -> Princeton -> Goldman Sachs -> KKR -> HBS -> Unpaid intern at a boutique bank in Queens checking in.
My boss basically said every non-target intern that has come through our shop has sucked, but he always liked giving kids a chance. If you can learn and have drive you're valuable. The problem was that all the non-targets just wanted to do finance because they liked the idea of making a lot of money, they weren't prepared to actually contribute and use their brain. Therefore, my boss has given up on non-targets.
I never said I personally believed that. My boss comes from a 'non-target'. Everyone is just throwing shit at me for being the messenger. I have friends who work at top shops (the BB's, the MF's, etc) that are non-targets. The problem is that the ratio of prepared kids to unprepared kids at non-targets is a lot smaller than at targets. Have I met people who went to HYP who I think are complete morons? Absolutely. I'm sure WSO has a ton of prepared kids who come from non-targets that will eat anyone's lunch any day of the week. However, at the end of the day it's a numbers game people; stop being butt hurt for Christ's sake.
Yeah cause the targets aren't in it for the money, only the non targets are.
Lol you're funny kid
And while the median intelligence level is probably higher at top schools, there are still extremely smart kids who literally don't even know or care what "prestige" is and go to non targets for a multitude of reasons
I was not implying that only non-targets are in it for the money. Everyone is in it for the money. But the non-targets that we interviewed just didn't have the same drive/depth of knowledge that the targets did. Is this always the case? No. That's like saying everyone who goes to community college is retarded -- which is false. The top CC kids could very easily compete at the top private colleges and universities. There are non-targets that would kill to have half the chances some people on this forum have and have done their homework. The ones we have come across apparently just suck, but my sample size is limited. The general attitude from the non-target kids was sort of a 'Oh I saw Wolf of Wall Street, it seemed pretty sick and I want to make a lot of money'. Half these interviews are bullshit, but at least have the decency to make up a good story. Someone told me they got their news from the reddit econ section-- seriously wtf? We gave a non-target an internship because of a family connection, and I had to stop what I was doing to explain what an investment bank does, and what EBITDA is. I don't mind explaining, but at least go on investopedia before you ask me such basic questions to make both of our lives easier. However, I digress--going back to OP's question: it's exactly what theebreadwinner said...the median intelligence level at top schools is higher. I can pick a random kid out of a hat and they'll be a better candidate 90% of the time. As long as this is the case, elitism will exist on the street.
Honestly, I'm just bitter that our interns have contributed a net negative output and most have happened to be non-targets. Correlation is different from causation, but I think a bit of both are at play here.
In my very brief career - and having recently been in the job market - this often arose in conversation. Coming from a non-target, I always had a tough time competing with the kids from the Ivys - on paper. When I was able to speak with someone, whether it was on the phone or in person, it was a bit of different story.
During my internships (ER, trading (buy side), and ops) as an undergrad, I spent time with some absolutely brilliant kids from Wharton, Princeton, Hopkins, Michigan, ect. Some of these kids, although extremely smart, felt that they were "above" completing menial office tasks. For example, if pitch-books needed binding or an analyst needed coffee, they'd pretend not to hear the request until someone else complied. I was also told that when you're spending banking hours with someone, good personality traits are equally valuable.
Also, I think @MBAGrad2015" is correct. Many of my friends who studied in areas that could have easily translated into a career in banking, elected to go toward toward tech or pursued MBAs in engineering. The stigma of wall street has changed and the faint of heart are searching for job security + work life balance.
If you're great at what you do you will be found and you will make it. It doesn't matter what colour your fucking skin is, what fucking school you came from, or what your fucking last name is. (albeit, they can be somewhat advantageous) Point is, shits getting more and more competitive out there which is good for the industry IMO. Get out there and work like hell and make a name for yourself. Do what your boss asks and surpass his expectations. If he asks you to take a shit, you ask how big?
Strong username and avatar. And strong post content to username ratio.
Generally I see more non-target folks roaming around today than when I first started but having a good school on your resume absolutely helps during hiring/interviews/networking. It doesn't have to be undergrad though, it can be masters or mba, but having an ivy league or ivy-equivalent institution in your profile definitely makes you stand out, all else equal. I don't think that will change.
There are kids willing to eat your dinner if you don't.
Connections, college and overall eliteness can be reduced to nil by someone with enough hunger and a decent networking email format.
It's not really elitism if students at the most demanding academic institutions self-select, and by virtue of their competency beat out other students for banking jobs, now is it?
Good thread, but the "mortgage brokers are scum" thread from yesterday was better.
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A lot of smart students prefer the Google's / Apples of the world as well as other tech firms. And the Tech sector is so cash rich that they can pay talented junior developers very competitive base salaries, not to mention better hours and perks than is offered at IBs. This has been the trend since the crisis. A lot of the brightest grads head to Silicon Valley over Wall Street.
Yeah....also keep in mind that there's a few schools out there which are technically "non targets" due to a lack of any OCR but still will reach out to the school's career services offices to see if there's any current students who are interested. In some cases it's due to location, in others it's due to low enough numbers that it just isn't worth the flight. They'd rather fly out the one or two candidates from that school who make the cut.
Ironically enough I've heard the exact opposite assessment of "non targets". As I've mentioned before my main point of contact in my professional association hears repeatedly from recruiters that they're interested in expanding their non-traditional recruiting pipelines due to the entitlement mentality and declining work ethic that they've found to be endemic among alumni of "prestigious" schools. The difficult part is finding sources that reliably provide the kind of mental firepower required.
High Five, OP!
(Finally five years later, I no longer look like a fool for running around saying state schoolers make good hires and engineering is not a bad choice of major)
And five years later, you still have a chip on your shoulders. Will you stop bringing up state school engineering programs in every thread that remotely has to do with school? At first it was funny, but now it's getting obnoxious and reeks of state school insecurity. You remind me of those girls who were ugly growing up and then blossomed into hotties and now rub it in everyone's faces. For someone as smart as you, it's unbecoming.
I don't think there's any insecurity associated with going to a state school... I'm very proud of where I went to school, as are you. Nobody gets accused of being insecure for being proud of going to an Ivy, and I don't think going to a state school should garner the same accusations, especially when state schools outrank most Ivies in Engineering. :)
So... what is there to be insecure about?
At the MBA level, the decline of finance - and the lowering of standards - is pretty shocking. At Kellogg, 88% of people who applied got IB offers - only people who failed were those with poor english skills. Even at worse programs in the 15-20 range of MBA (e.g. UT), most people seem successful.
As I've mentioned before, some of the programs in the 15-20 range have gotten VERY good at identifying candidates with potential for IB, grooming them to be interview well and be technically competent, and using their alumni network to get jobs. I know of one school in that range which placed 100% of those seeking IB jobs into front office roles.
Yeah everyone at my school who wanted banking got it. But it's important to note that the top bulge brackets (GS, MS, JPM) and boutiques (Evercore/Lazard/Moelis/Greenhill/Perella Weinberg/centerview) were still pretty selective.
M7? HSW? Just wondering
I can only speak for London and the rest of Europe but it seems you have a point. Whereas traditionally, London was filled with LSE, Warwick, UCL and Oxbridge kids (and the odd from continental schools) we're seeing a larger influx from a wider range. ESCP, Bath, Durham and even Rotterdam are placing well.
a troll account made just for me when I don't even have 200 posts? I should be flattered.
Ivy nerds,
Get a fucking life college is over bro
The butthurt from non-Ivy scrubs is strong here.
yeah, elitism is definitely not over - it simply that more kids from target schools want to go work in silicon valley or non-profits. Their daddy already went to BB killed it and they don't need to worry about dick measuring anymore. their family already has the nice cars and the yachts. That means you need to go elsewhere to fill the ranks. Those new kids will have to work 3x as hard and lick more ass than anyone and still will be looked at down the nose. simple as that. call me a cynic. call me an asshole. call me a ninja in a zentai suit. truth is truth ( dramatically drops mic on stage and leaves).
Love this post lol
Non-targets are also trying to break into tech, because it's a booming industry in a way that banking is not. Has nothing to do with whether their parents are wealthy, because tech workers, at least at the entry level, make on par with entry level bankers and with way, way better perqs. And there is absolutely no trend of rich kids going to work for non-profits more so than at any other time in the last century.
There are so many forms of connectivity now beyond word-of-mouth that cultural power has been diffused, which had always been the populist American dream. So the elitists will still tell us what we ought to like, only no one has to listen anymore because everyone has his own opinions and the means to share them.
Well at least the denials are getting more sophisticated.
Part of who I am is that I enjoy shoving my non-eliteness in the face of a guy who has trolled relentlessly about prestige- with thousands of posts about ridiculous resumes, fake emails from HBS pals, MAD SWAGGER, etc. That's not insecurity, that's just Rodney Dangerfield having fun with Judge Smails at Bushwood Golf Club. I own my lack of prestige, my thrift, and my cheap vehicles.
Back to my rusty honda. (Parked in the middle of the seventh hole fairway. No, I'm not worried about the tire tracks.)
The real insecurity here is Brady not just owning being Brady. Dude's our local celebrity, right up there with Eddie, Ant, Dick, etc. Own being the heel and they will love you, Brady, or at least love to hate you.
AndyLouis, do I get an award or a free t-shirt for most shat on post?
lol i've seen 25 monkey shits before (a brady comment) but sure we'll send you a trophy
From my personal experience, my hs band class sent multiple kids to every single top 15 school. But the ones who went to lower tier Ivies are the biggest brand whores of the bunch.
Also the difference in student quality at Ivies and top tier non Ivies like Duke or Chicago is decreasing fast. I remember when I was applying to college 5 years ago there was still a sizable gap in the SAT/ACT avg. (I think the midtier Ivies had a range of 33-36 and Duke would be a few points below). I think test scores are nearly identical now.
Most of the kids from non-targets that got SA offers at BBs just took it on themselves to be elitist and pretend they were god's gift to financial services, even though it was their family connections who got them a middle office role. And like it was said before, a lot of kids from top schools chose to do something in tech or a non-finance field, and those in finance were a lot more nonchalant about it.
Really it depends on the person but there are definitely compensation issues.
Seriously my time in NY left me convinced that insecurity about and obsession with prestige is maximized for students who missed Harvard by an inch.
I think the elitism and arrogance isn't centered around the school, it's around the person and what they want to do with their lives. I've met an unbelievable number of prestige-desperate people at state schools. Whatever's hot at the time, Wolf of Wall Street, Bulge Bracket (cause wtf is Citadel right?) or bust, the whole "incoming summer analyst" thing on Linkedin, it's all there. I have connections at Ivys that do the same.
Those are the finance/econ kids. The tech kids are a lot better, because they always seem to want to go to a place where their work will help the company the most (i.e. growing startup). Obviously Google/FB/Uber are cool but within the CS program no one really worships them like econ kids do BB.
The last group are the STEM kids who are very bright but don't care at all about prestige. I like them the most because they don't bs you, and pump you full of crap about recruiting/prestige/status. They like the work they do/academia. Also they're the most genuine out of all of the people listed.
Those who obsess over prestige and status are kids with chips on the shoulders/insecurity about what they bring to the table. If you know you're good and don't have a chip on your shoulder because you aren't in the Ivy League/a BB, it's whatever.
Outside of Startups/ Getting stock compensations in Tech...... who is walking away with more money these days? Kids in the Valley or Wall Street?
Fresh graduates can nolonger 'make it big' in S&T due to regulatory requirements and automation.
M&A is doing well but will it impact analyst/associate bonuses, by how much, and is the deal flow here to stay?
Banking is no longer a get rich quick opportunity like the old days. Tech entrepreneurs are the new barbarians at the (logic) gate. The growth rates and payouts from IPOs are crazy. Established players also pay really well.
Tech companies become more popular/selective, hire more targets, thus leaving room for more non-targets to enter IB.
How does it surprise anyone that Ivy league students are targeted by investment banks? Hm let's see - who was a better student in high school and did better on the SAT? A (non-legacy) Harvard undergrad, or one from the University of Wisconsin? It isn't elitism - it is a straight up meritocracy.
Like I said before though, it's a false comparison. I had the chance to talk to some Badgers and it sounds like Wisconsin does a decent job with it's IB prep program. Increasingly programs like that are used to screen for the kids who are as capable as the Ivy Students and who are interested in Investment Banking. Hell, I know about one state U's IB program that is placing people in GS/JPM/ML and Blackstone every year.
Who cares how they did in high school while their parents were looking over their shoulder, though? How did they do when they were on their own? About 20% of the seats at HYP are for sale to the highest bidder through the schools' development programs, and as referenced by other threads on Asian admits (I am not Asian) undergrad admissions is hardly about hard work or academic or intellectual merit- things a meritocratic hiring process should be looking at.
More importantly, this ignores the fact that you're only as good as your last job/class. Nobody cares about what I was doing three years ago. Why should I care how a college junior did in high school? I am more concerned about your college GPA.
That's not to say it shouldn't be a surprise when 30% of Wall Street comes from an Ivy- just to say that school shouldn't necessarily directly factor into merit.
When computers were just for nerds and large corporations, Elite could get away with arrogance, insularity and sexism. They were building products for people that looked just like them.
I do not understand why this thread became a shit show. Tech is sexy now and the financial services are routinely demonized in the press. Kids from top schools have a wide variety of premier and well paying jobs to choose from. They are choosing tech or other "prestigious" jobs right now and fewer of them are going into banking. Non target kids have less of these "prestigious" options and tend to seek out the highest paying of them (aka finance in general). Also, investment banking isn't a technical field. Finance grads from state college can't break into Google or Lyft without technical skills. They can break into investment banking though with a standard and formulaic approach.
Tech will blow up and people will cycle back into finance, legal, medicine, whatever. Career choices ebb and flow.
As for prestige and snobbery, who cares. Make good money, save some and live your life. At some point in everyones life they just need to accept what is and make the best with it. You can't go back in time and the more you dwell on the past the more you waste value time you could be improving or enjoying your life.
Very well put. I was thinking about posting then this.
Solid post
Don't know about BB, but top hedge funds and top PE are still very very selective. Citadel, highbridge, GSO, KKR etc do not fuck around.
Now is everyone Ivy there no, but they are usually pretty damn impressive.
As a whole I think the industry is still pretty selective
Depends on the firm. Spoke to someone very senior at a very prestigious pe firm and he could not care less about what university someone went to.
If you can do the job, you can do the job.
I work for a fund like one of those mentioned and we definitely hire from state schools. Actually one of our most successful researchers hails from UIC.
At the level some firms hire at, credentials often go well beyond school. This isn't necessarily to give the college senior at UW OshKosh with a 3.3 GPA hope that he can get hired tomorrow- just to give him reassurance that a lot of people in his shoes did something amazing and wound up somewhere awesome a few years later. And the right kid studying engineering at UC Berkeley, Georgia Tech, UMich, UT Austin, etc can get hired into a QR or FO dev role. (A PhD is sometimes helpful, but there's nothing wrong with a SUNY undergrad, Berkeley PhD)
Harvard, Yale, and Princeton can't really predict how successful you'll be in 5-10 years because they can't predict how hard you're willing to work for that success. That's something that really only YOU can predict. And I think students at those schools would be surprised to find out how many people are willing to work harder than them.
Also claiming that UIUC, UT Austin, UMich, UC Berkeley, Georgia Tech, UW Madison, (aka non target) etc graduates don't have awesome options in tech- perhaps better options than most Ivies- is a bit silly.
There's a very good reason UC Berkeley ranks #1 (four way tie) for CS and Harvard ranks #30. That Google recruits more heavily from Berkeley than any Ivy. Berkeley graduates know their shit. They're not busy reading Moby Dick and the Odyssey. And while Princeton and Cornell have excellent CS programs that can at worst hold a serious candle and at best compete at a level playing field with Berkeley, they're at a huge geographical disadvantage.
I suspect that in 100 years if tech replaces finance, the new acronym could easily be BSCM (Berkeley, Stanford, Caltech, MIT) to replace HYP. New targets will get created and old targets may be replaced.
I wonder if that has something to do with their headquarters being next door and the amount of interested students
If I am looking to hire someone for a technical role I want to make sure they at least have the basic level of technical skills needed. But, given two candidates with a roughly equal level of technical skills, I would be looking for something more
I'm not sure why there's this defensiveness coming from target schools. HYP are still at a huge advantage... but the gap has narrowed somewhat. I don't think any of the order statistics are changing... just the distribution and perhaps the weight on the tech rankings vs. finance. Having more diversity of educational backgrounds in the front office means better ideas, so I don't see how this is bad news for anyone.
Well stated. Take a look at the current ranking of top 10 engineering schools: the only "prestige" schools on the list are MIT and Cornell.
A lot of people don't understand that most Tech positions have fundamentally different requirements than finance/consulting jobs. Most techies work in "back office" technical jobs with little client interaction. There's also a massive cultural difference. One thing that's going to be extremely difficult for folks on here who've never lived outside the North East to understand is that most areas of the country don't really give a rat's ass about "prestige", with a few subcultural exceptions (Asians to be honest, Southern Preppies, to name a few). In a lot of areas which golf club you belong to or which church you go to matters a lot more than which school you went to, and if you get into fields where the mentality is more hipsterish( like Boulder) they don't give a flying fuck that you went to a "prestigious" university, lived in the "prestigious" dorm and were a part of the most "prestigious" extracurricular clubs on campus.
Hell even some of the older tech companies are like that. I've got a friend who is making 6 figures at Microsoft, with a day of work from home privileges, and who get her degree from the "non-prestigious" Oklahoma University.
Lot of great points in here but SBs for Illiniprogrammer ...seems like a true middle class man like myself
By no means does seemingly more non-target kids getting into banking spell the end of elitism on the Street. Sure there are more schools represented in bigger numbers than ever before but this isn't killing elitism. Instead it expands the traditional view of the elite Ivies+NE schools ruling the financial world to now (somewhat) include these other previously non-target schools. So now they are seen as being at least in the same ballpark as the traditionally elite schools and thus can be considered, in a way, "elite" as well.
I definitely agree with what others have said in that this greater diversity is brought on by: 1) kids learning (through WSO/career center/whatever) what it takes to get a job on the street, 2) more ivy grads preferring tech jobs, 3) the industry realizing that anyone with above average intelligence can learn how to do well.
[quote=da chief]
By no means does seemingly more non-target kids getting into banking spell the end of elitism on the Street. Sure there are more schools represented in bigger numbers than ever before but this isn't killing elitism. Instead it expands the traditional view of the elite Ivies+NE schools ruling the financial world to now (somewhat) include these other previously non-target schools. So now they are seen as being at least in the same ballpark as the traditionally elite schools and thus can be considered, in a way, "elite" as well.
/quote]
That's a good way of putting it. It sipmly expands the pool to include non ivies that have good relationships or good IB programs.
I'm in the southern hemisphere and nothings changed. Top target/ high GPAs/ EC's only. I've probably seen in my lifetime, less than 10 coming from "non-targets".
Hoping that Australia will move out of elitism, it sucks.
The fact that this debate is even taking place reinforces elitism
If you really think we are ushering in the end of elitism, read this article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/recruitment-resumes…
I was going to be done with this thread, but saw this article and saw the above article and felt compelled to chime in one more time.
1) The best jobs are easily obtained from top schools - Fact and isn't going to change. With affirmative action and Ivy's trying to socially engineer their class rooms it is "easier" to get into these schools without going to the best private schools, etc. Also, lets just be honest. The standards to get into a top schools (AA aside) are pretty damn high. Sure, being rich helps a lot, but that doesn't mean the kids aren't smart. That's just life.
2) There are plenty of very good schools that provide ample high earning jobs. It isn't just 10 schools in the US that can place you in finance or tech. There are probably 50-100 schools US schools (maybe more when you consider regional schools) that can place into these blue chip jobs assuming you are smart. If you went to West South Dakota state and have a 2.5 GPA you probably aren't getting into the best jobs. I fail to see how this is somehow unfair and not reflective of effort before and during college.
3) Life doesn't end if you aren't in the 1%. If you aren't in NYC and you are married to someone of equal intelligence and education, you can easily be in the top 5-10% of earners by your early 30's. Two accountants can be making a combined $150-200K pretty easily after a number of years. Assuming a modest lifestyle you can own your own home and save a lot of money.
This site and this country and become too fixated on what the rich do and how life fucking blows unless you are making millions. You don't need a G wagon and a private jet to have a nice life. It is absolutely ridiculous this concept. The American Dream (house, two cars, savings) can happen easily if you marry someone educated and work in any number of careers. The issue is college students max out their student debt for low paying jobs, complain cause they aren't rolling deep 24/7/365 and then bitch how their life isn't as good as their parents.
Or on this forum people complain that if they didn't go to Harvard they should kill themselves because life isn't worth living without a million in the bank. I attribute the absolute comical disconnect from reality promoted on this site because the majority of the posters are college kids watching Wall Street and Wolf of Wall Street.
Go to a good school, study, try and minimize how much debt you take out and work hard at a good firm and build up your resume and network. Savings > Debt and enjoy life in moderation. And with the multitude of masters and graduate programs being offered by top schools, if you feel a brand is the absolute necessity, save some cash and go get it. Anyone of us could easily slap a top 20 university on our resume if we wanted to part with some time and some cash. Life is way more than a brand and way more than working in NYC.
Seriously people, get a grip.
God damn what a great post.
GOLDEN
I grew up poor as shit and went to a bad high school...The top 5% of my class all went to good or great undergrads, and got access to the recruiting and industries they desired (business, engineering, medicine). There's very few smart kids from poor areas not going to top schools - there's a ton of financial aid and scholarships, even if you're white like me. People who go to state school in general are people who did worse in high school, either due to worse work effort or lower intelligence.
Sure, this is a societal issue - being poor puts a lot of pressure on people to be lazy, not motivated, and has a lot of anti-intellectualism going on. But, I fail to see how corporations are to fix this - If you hire the average person from a non-target state school, they're going to bring this laziness to the company. Habits are engrained in childhood and early adulthood.
The government needs to make our schools more equal, but corporations hiring under qualified people isn't the answer, it'll just cause us to be globally non-competitive.
TNA you are my hero
this is pointless.
lolwut, I love how state school has become synonymous with alabama southwestern bumfuckfille state. Lets just ignore UCLA/ UCB/ UIUC/ UW/ UMICH/ UNC/ UT/ A&M/ UF/ OSU and I am sure I am missing a bunch of great state schools that kids go to because it is a.) cheaper b.) has better programs in their major or c.) closer to home
I was referring to non-target state schools...although I'd argue only half of your list is a top school, the rest do fairly poor in recruiting.
Dude, finance recruiting is not the end all be all, my cousin went to a super-regional (ie. way below the schools mentioned) in electrical engineering and has a cushy job with a tech company, this site gets tunnel vision so bad its ridiculous
Just interviewed for an internship at a family office (500 mill+ AUM) where the CFO/ Head Porfolio manager didn't even go to college, dude is clearing over 500k a year.... lol @ prestige hunters.
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