Entering New Era With China

The Covid-19 disease, or Chinese Virus, is one of the many diseases to have come from China in the past few decades or so, please see: SARS and Avian Flu. These diseases are a product of their exotic animal markets, but the spread is purely a function of the dysfunction and corrupt nature of the Chinese government. Can you even believe that there are high level Chinese officials trying to blame covid 19 on America- their country is out of control and we have gotten too comfortable with relying on them for our supply chain.

Thankfully Trump has made the US less reliant on China for our supply chain with many products now being manufactured in Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. However, we need to ensure that our nation is never reliant on the corrupt Chinese ever again- or ANY country for that matter. Free trade is good for the textbooks, but when national security is at hand, we need to draw the line somewhere.

I think we need to place heavy sanctions on China when this all settles, and renegotiate the trade agreement- China needs to pay for the horrors that it has brought to the world. I know I am not the only one who shares this sentiment and a rapidly growing portion of the US and World is realizing the evil of the Chinese corrupt government. It will only be time until they are finally confronted over this after everything passes over.

WSO Elite Modeling Package

  • 6 courses to mastery: Excel, Financial Statement, LBO, M&A, Valuation and DCF
  • Elite instructors from top BB investment banks and private equity megafunds
  • Includes Company DB + Video Library Access (1 year)

Comments (68)

Controversial
Mar 19, 2020 - 2:55am

Your mindset is pathetic... i got tired of typing so just gonna paste my thoughts from the other thread on the same topic:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/if-china-recovered-quickly-from-…

*I work in APAC equities (yes despite my username) and tracking Chinese factory/consumption resumption has been a common practice. China's industrial utilization level is already back to 50-70% of normalized level. Workers have been back to work since 3-4 weeks, and have not had a second wave of confirmed cases. It's mind boggling the Chinese govt was able to pull this off. To those who refuse to believe any numbers out of China or that China has done a good job - congratulations, you're brainwashed by western media and good luck living in your own bubble.

How about we just accept the fact that China has handled the situation better than any other country in the world? Sure the Chinese numbers might be under reported, but I don't believe for one second that US/European countries are truthfully reporting theirs. Remember 2-3 weeks ago when CDC tried to change the disclosure from reporting number of cases per state to reporting "Yes/No" for each state, before changing it back due to complaints?

We were laughing at China 2 months ago when this virus first started, and now US is the laughing stock of the world for 0 demonstration of leadership (Trump trying to shift blame didn't help - come on, why calling it Chinese virus when people don't call H1N1 the American virus). Maybe it's time to be humble and accept that US has done a poor job about this virus.*

Mar 19, 2020 - 4:15am

Yes China tried to cover up initially... as any other country would. Didn't Trump say this virus is just a hoax 2 weeks ago when US already had confirmed cases? Not saying the Chinese are saints, but hey they took responsibility to protects its people and they came out ok so far despite the shitty hand they were dealt.

Mar 19, 2020 - 7:38am
pbaik829:

You also left out the fact that China initially attempted to cover up the virus, allowing it to spread even more, causing a worldwide epidemic.

Let's get it straight.

It was a 2 week delay due to the cover up. It was end of December when human-to-human transmission was found, and the government started closing down the city mid January.

In the hindsight, you can say they should have closed down the country earlier, but who in the world would have the gut to do that? There are 11 million people in Wuhan alone. Not to mention that it was right before the Chinese New Year, when hundreds of millions of people were traveling home. The social and economic impact would be enormous. For a virus that back then, we didn't know how fast it would spread and how deadly it would be yet, to shut down the entire country immediately would be unthinkable. Just look at how many people, on this site alone, are complaining about the economic loss due to the shut down here in the US. There are posts debating whether we should just let old people die if the economic impact is too much.

Another fact to point out. The world was made fully aware of the nature of this virus mid to late January. The rest of the world had almost 2 full months to react, but still couldn't contain it. I don't blame Europe, or the US for that matter, for failing to control the virus during this 2 months because this virus spreads so fast, and to effectively contain it, it would require shutting down everything very early, which will hit the economy enormously.

You can say it's wrong to cover shit up, but that is nowhere near why this virus is all over Europe and spreading in the US.

Learn More

300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses.

Learn more
Mar 19, 2020 - 7:19am

Ya my bad, I thought H1N1 started in the US from quick reading of Wikipedia. Seems like we only later found out it originated in Mexico. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1#2009_A(H1N…

My point was Trump's focus on calling Covid-19 a chinese virus is a pathetic attempt at shifting blame to cover his own ass. I mean '000s and potentially millions of lifes are at risk and Trump is using this humanitarian crisis for his political agenda instead of taking actions and protect the American people.

Mar 19, 2020 - 12:17pm

The factor is China was an accomplice to the global spread & could have prevented thousands of deaths & this economic downturn. Boasting that China has recovered from it quicker than anyone is a very dangerous message that the ability for a government to lie, deceive & then recover by control of its citizens is somehow a better alternative to a free country that has its citizens as its first interest

Mar 19, 2020 - 4:30pm
fixedincomekid:
How about we just accept the fact that China has handled the situation better than any other country in the world?

Eh. I think OP is full of shit too, but I think South Korea would like a word with you about this.

Not to mention, South Korea had to run their response via a democratic government.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

  • 2
  • 2
Mar 19, 2020 - 9:57pm

How much are the communist Chinese paying you for this propaganda? Pretty good gaslighting since you start off with the increase in industrial utilization level before going into full propaganda mode.

You conveniently left out the fact that the Chinese government knew of the virus outbreak in December and deliberately lied and suppressed information. They refused to let in U.S. CDC inspectors, allowed several million of their citizens to travel abroad, and shut down brave journalists who were getting the truth out. The WHO bought their lie on the risk of transmission being low, as late as mid-January. The Axios article that came out yesterday said that if China had acted 3 weeks earlier, the # of global infections would be lower by 95%. So the Chinese government, through its devious lies and corruption, fucked up the world. That's a fact.

As for the Chinese "handling" this well, let's assume that their reported data is correct (it's a stretch but I will play along). The Chinese imposed true quarantines where the military shut down cities larger than NYC. People were not allowed to enter or exit, every person was forced to wear masks when outside, and cops actually placed barricades in front of apartments of infected people. So they suffered inside their homes, unable to get help.

Mar 19, 2020 - 11:01pm

I have read that research. Two things:

  1. The research is based on data from China being 100% accurate. Since we all believe that the actual numbers are higher than what the government reported, the so called early "action" would have much lower effect.

  2. Your word is "acted", while the research calls it non-pharmaceutical interventions, which is essentially banning all travels. There are 11 million people in Wuhan alone, not to mention that it was right before the Chinese New Year, when hundreds of millions of people were traveling home around the country. Back then, we didn't know how fast the virus would spread and how deadly it would be yet, and to shut down all travel immediately after the virus was verified end of December (the so called 3 weeks earlier) would be unthinkable. In fact, just look at how many people, on this site alone (yourself included), are complaining about the economic loss due to the shut down here in the US. There are even posts debating whether we should just let old people die if the economic impact is too much.

Now, for Trump's reaction, which you praised, let's look at the timeline:
Jan 13: First coronavirus case reported outside China
Jan 21: First case confirmed in the United States
Jan 31: Italy bans travel from China
Feb 4: Trump bans travel from China

So if you are going to say China's response is 2-3 weeks late, let's agree Trump's response is 2-3 weeks late as well.

Mar 20, 2020 - 12:23pm

Hey take a look on my username! lol
Mercy on you flexible anal cavity who is brainwashed by western media haha.
Shut up your barking mouth when your undeveloped brain has nothing right. [doggie face]
I hope you are safe and sound since the # has climbed out of china while china left the group chat :)

Mar 19, 2020 - 5:15am

Speaking of solution to get US out of the economic shithole it's sprinting into, I honestly think the last thing we need is to keep playing tough with China.

For one, they have the medical equipment (protective gears for doctors/nurses) we need immediately. This is not high tech stuff, but 50%+ of global facemask production capacity was already in China pre-virus and this number must have increased by a lot in the past 2 months. China has already donated millions of masks to European and African countries. For two, a softer trade deal is more effective than another 500bn worth of bonds buying program cuz trade will actually let the economic machine running.

Although I think there is 0 chance the above happening given trump's ego and the rising cold war mentality on US/China relationship. There's is an argument for hostility against China to prevent it from becoming a global superpower, but this is at the expense of potentially hundreds of thousands of American lives.

Mar 19, 2020 - 6:47pm

The Chinese should be thankful to America for making it into an economic powerhouse.

After the Coronavirus is contained, I hope US companies diversify their supply chains out of China and preferably in the US. The quality in China licks balls, and the Chinese workers are abused and exploited (including young children, women, and the poor). We think income/wealth inequality is bad here in the US? Imagine China's spectrum.

Mar 19, 2020 - 6:51am

What I see is that polls said Trump would loose to Biden, he's making a fool of himself with this crisis + everyone has argued for months already that if the economy in late 2019 or 2020 was heading into a recession there was no way Trump would get re-elected. I don't think that it changes the relationship with China whatsoever. At the beginning the issue was just a chinese issue, either globally we should have said lets ban travel on anyone wanting to leave China, but now it's a global issue so we need to fight it all together not each and everyone of us fighting our own war on our own. Because shutting down an economy for 2-3 weeks js tough, but what if there is just one person coming back from an other country after the lockdown ends that still has the virus and kicks off the spread again? Well you're back at the starting point...

Mar 19, 2020 - 8:05am

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Sometimes bad things happen. It's nobody's fault, but everyone's responsibility.

Placing heavy sanctions on China when this settles won't do anything good, especially not to the economy. I also like how you put "the US" and "World" as if they were two separate things. Both the US and China are part of the world and we should fight this thing globally, rather than country by country.

I don't know... Yeah. Almost definitely yes.

  • 13
Mar 19, 2020 - 12:13pm

This guy gets it.

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
Mar 19, 2020 - 1:29pm

username checks out

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

  • 1
Mar 19, 2020 - 1:57pm

OP is relatively delusional but I'm surprised at how much faith/trust people seem to show in the Chinese government/media/state. Xi Jinping declared himself president for life and their censorship is well-documented (eg. disappearing bookstore owners, Google searches, etc.). Not to mention what they are currently doing to the Uygher population (re-education camps? for all we know it could be as bad as WWII).

Anyone who believes the Chinese state media is honestly reporting coronavirus/covid-19 figures is patently delusional.

Mar 19, 2020 - 4:01pm

It's honestly baffling how some posters here can hold water for China, a regime that literally puts Muslims in concentration camps and withholds world changing public health information from global health teams, but they'll take every chance they can to scream ORANGE MAN BAD at the top of their lungs.

Some people must really really like buying cheap plastic shit from China, that's my only explanation.

Mar 19, 2020 - 4:11pm
Pmc2ghy:

It's honestly baffling how some posters here can hold water for China, a regime that literally puts Muslims in concentration camps and withholds world changing public health information from global health teams, but they'll take every chance they can to scream ORANGE MAN BAD at the top of their lungs.

Some people must really really like buying cheap plastic shit from China, that's my only explanation.

Or you're simply misrepresenting peoples' points of view and acting, in bad faith, as if China can't have a terrible authoritarian government that misled the public for two weeks, directly leading to this crisis in the world AND Trump can be an incompetent moron who lied about COVID-19, spread misinformation and downplayed the virus, and was negligent in his absurdly slow response, directly leading to this crisis in America.

The world is far more complicated than "You're either fer Trump or fer communist dictatorship!!!1"

Commercial Real Estate Developer

  • 6
  • 2
Mar 19, 2020 - 3:39pm

Replies are somehow even worse than the OP.

1) China lied, everyone acknowledges it, yet some now believe ''China has got it under control and is doing better than the US''. Are you guys serious? How many times do you need to be lied to, to stop trusting someone?

2) But Trump. Trump's initial approach was wrong and he radically altered it. That's hardly bad. I don't see why especially those on the left are hating the fact that he's doing a larger bottom-up stimulus than Obama did. The guy is going for a short-term UBI. That's the left's dream. Andrew Yang and all that. So now it's bad because Trump does it?

3) But ''xyz'' underestimated it. Ok let's go with the World Health Organization:
On January 29th, they were still undecided on whether this was a public emergency of international concern:
https://twitter.com/DrTedros/status/1222543539587964930

30th January: contagion outside China was limited (this turned out totally false)
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1222944438181335040

30th January: no reason for countries to interfere with travel and trade (this is hilarious considering now people can't leave their houses)
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1222969858574430217

23th January:
Not a global emergency
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1220413117001322497

So, who didn't fuck it up? The experts? Global coordination? Nah. S. Korea and Singapore? The most disciplined countries in the world.

4) ''Muh Chinese virus''. I don't think you guys realize how it badly the sole existence of the ''controversy'' makes the US look. Is that your priority? Apparently, it is. Just call it fucking Italian virus, I'm the only one related to Italy in the thread, I won't get offended, nobody gives a shit.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • 11
  • 1
Mar 19, 2020 - 4:21pm
neink:
4) ''Muh Chinese virus''. I don't think you guys realize how it badly the sole existence of the ''controversy'' makes the US look. Is that your priority? Apparently, it is. Just call it fucking Italian virus, I'm the only one related to Italy in the thread, I won't get offended, nobody gives a shit.

People do give a shit because of the reason behind calling it that. There is no reason to do so other than to troll people and refocus their attention. Everyone in the world calls it the coronavirus, or more accurately, COVID-19, except Trump and now right-wing media.

Why is that? Let's examine the reasons.

  1. Trump loves framing "Chiiina" as the enemy because it is politically useful for him to have an "other." Whether that other is "the fake news media," "the do-nothing Democrats," or "Chiiiina," Trump rallies his base with an us vs. them mentality because they respond to that.

  2. Trump has specifically shifted to calling it "the Chinese virus" to wind up his base and distract from the terrible job he has done managing the crisis. Now, instead of focusing on that, Trump is attempting to reframe it to a national discussion on "political correctness," which right wing media is happy to rally behind. Instead of focusing on his incompetence, talking heads on the left get to bring up how much of a racist dogwhistle it is while talking heads on the right get to bring up how "stupid the libs are" for caring what you call it. It's all incredibly predictable.

It isn't a priority, and frankly it's annoying that it's even a thing because it's so mind-numbingly stupid, but Trump started this whole "controversy" simply to fire up his base since he can't downplay the virus anymore and blame the Democrats for playing it up to "impeach him again," so now we have to deal with it. We have a president who tips his cap to racists in order to change media narratives because racists love him and Trump understands the media and how bad this crisis makes him look far better than he understands the presidency.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

  • 7
  • 1
Mar 19, 2020 - 4:47pm

Fair advice: ignore him. He'll stop. And I'm intentionally keeping this short to show how it's done. Stop caring. Fuck him. There are a hundred more important things to discuss Coronavirus related.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • 1
Mar 20, 2020 - 3:17am

Of all the points made you chose to pick a part this one? Frankly I'm the same mindset as Neinke. Who gives a fuck at this point? I'd rather focus on the more pressing matters than the emotional arguments consuming people about whether we call it the "Wuhan Virus", etc. I try to stay out of political commentary on here but at some point you've gotta stop allowing your personal bias against Trump to precede objective observation of a scenario. Do I believe Trump did well fresh out of the gate? Absolutely not. I believe people wanted answers on the virus (not the economy) and he was slow. Did he realize his fuck up and start rapidly changing his stance and agenda? I believe the sequence of events in the last week and a half support that.

Going to have to agree with Neinke on another point where you just gotta ignore the guy because that's how he won in the first place. Find racism and point it out and I'll fight it with you. I agree it's a horrible thing but people are sick of a world that is saturated with PC everywhere they look and when there's a group that takes Trump's arguments and pivots them as anti-PC rhetoric all the time it just rally's more support for the guy.

Will also add that you make some fair points on here in other posts about Trump so I'm not rallying behind the guy's every move. But damn dude not every thunderstorm is Trump's wrath from above.

Mar 19, 2020 - 6:02pm

My friends are big believers that this is a biowarfare attack by China on the older community because they have proved to be the biggest road block to the economy/technological innovations. Their reasoning is that Wuhan is where all of China's labs are and apparently either a bat or some animal that carried this infected someone or even escaped. They sent me their case through snapchat so I can't go back and look but it was some pretty decent evidence. I have no input on this topic or OP post

Mar 19, 2020 - 7:18pm

Completely baffled by people in this thread who 1) believe ANYTHING China says (like literally ever) and 2) fail to acknowledge how problematic it is that the U.S. is essentially dependent upon a third world communist shithole country for some of our most necessary goods.

It's apparent that November 2016 was the biggest shock in some of y'alls fragile lives, but the fact is that China has been ripping us off for decades. They've been buying off our politicians and the entire world for far too long - do you think it's a coincidence that Italy and Iran, countries that have recently received enormous "investments" from China, have been hit the hardest? (Or an even better example - look around at your college campuses lmao...). Not to mention the goods that they steal from the U.S. to backward engineer and steal our IP.

And yes, this virus and its spread is 100000000% China's fault. They are not our ally, and we should be completely independent from them. It's like being dependent upon live saving drugs from the Soviet Union during the Cold War... makes no sense. Right now, as a nation, we've been moving towards energy independence - should probably follow suit with other vital goods.

Also, any large corporation that wants bailout $$ from the government MUST promise to move supply chains and jobs back to America. Absolutely nothing wrong with putting American needs first.

Mar 19, 2020 - 9:59pm
anthro123:

Completely baffled by people in this thread who 1) believe ANYTHING China says (like literally ever) and 2) fail to acknowledge how problematic it is that the U.S. is essentially dependent upon a third world communist shithole country for some of our most necessary goods.

It's apparent that November 2016 was the biggest shock in some of y'alls fragile lives, but the fact is that China has been ripping us off for decades. They've been buying off our politicians and the entire world for far too long - do you think it's a coincidence that Italy and Iran, countries that have recently received enormous "investments" from China, have been hit the hardest? (Or an even better example - look around at your college campuses lmao...). Not to mention the goods that they steal from the U.S. to backward engineer and steal our IP.

And yes, this virus and its spread is 100000000% China's fault. They are not our ally, and we should be completely independent from them. It's like being dependent upon live saving drugs from the Soviet Union during the Cold War... makes no sense. Right now, as a nation, we've been moving towards energy independence - should probably follow suit with other vital goods.

Also, any large corporation that wants bailout $$ from the government MUST promise to move supply chains and jobs back to America. Absolutely nothing wrong with putting American needs first.

Yeah, it is amazing to see Americans praise communist China and believe their propaganda because ORANGE MAN BAD. The Trump presidency shattered their brains, preventing them from thinking rationally about policy.

Mar 19, 2020 - 11:18pm

Short term penalties on China can only risk retribution (such as dumping our Treasuries as apparently a top-level Communist suggested) when we can little afford it. However, I think this should be etched in our minds to drive a consistent diversion of manufacturing away from China. Freedom is not free, and hopefully we recognize that some costs for security are worthwhile.

Whining about referring to it as "Chinese" has no credibility when it was discovered that the party repeatedly buried the story starting in early (!) December (i.e. practically manufactured this situation). You are either grossly naïve or thoroughly brainwashed (a term derived from the Communist Party's own term) to think you can trust a totalitarian regime (and that's the literal situation there, unlike the figurative state that Leftists bloviate about here). You cannot afford to live life this ignorant and expect to help those around you.

  • 8
Mar 20, 2020 - 3:33am

Dolore eveniet alias tempore architecto. Aut culpa assumenda quae veritatis earum magni. Ea ipsa dolorem recusandae iusto. Ut necessitatibus ipsum fugiat eaque doloribus ea et. Sequi consectetur consequuntur blanditiis inventore.

Maxime pariatur ipsum eum. Ut ut accusantium vitae dolorem quaerat. Beatae magni totam laborum numquam omnis doloremque. Quaerat aperiam ut atque dolores molestiae.

Et unde voluptatem at et in qui unde. Reiciendis eius ex consequuntur. Et labore est sint odit.

Nulla placeat et suscipit culpa id. Dolorem doloribus totam perferendis quia et officia quia. Occaecati facere repellat iste voluptates quaerat. Ut vel laudantium amet cumque id et debitis.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn

Mar 20, 2020 - 12:23pm

Nesciunt sunt iste explicabo labore odio neque. Explicabo enim accusamus omnis dolorum. Id iure minus non eum facilis. Ipsum architecto quo illum vel sed repellendus reprehenderit. Dolorem nemo consequatur labore. Saepe dolor esse et nemo atque.

Itaque fugiat ad et nihil cum et consequatur. Laboriosam voluptatem culpa aut distinctio saepe aut repellat. Temporibus tenetur inventore dignissimos quia quis. Voluptas quae earum saepe quia.

Start Discussion

Popular Content See all

Oncycle is a fucking joke
+187PEby Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Dating smart girls
+139OFFby Analyst 2 in Consulting
How often do you get "matches" on apps?
+134OFFby Associate 1 in AM - Other
I want to quit already…
+106IBby Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Have you ever sued your employer?
+95PEby Principal in PE - Other
The Qualifications of an EB
+83IBby Summer Associate in IB-M&A

Total Avg Compensation

September 2021 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (10) $853
  • Vice President (38) $367
  • Associates (219) $232
  • 2nd Year Analyst (133) $153
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (30) $147
  • Intern/Summer Associate (103) $143
  • 1st Year Analyst (483) $135
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (376) $82