Myth: All target schools are superior to non-target schools
Fact: Schools such as Moorehouse, Spelman, Howard, NYU, Villanova, and, at one time, even Baruch (before a certain bank went bankrupt) are considered target schools at one or more banks. Schools such as Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Hopkins, and, yes, even MIT are considered non-targets at the majority (perhaps not all) of the BBs.
Takeaway: Idiots who try to boast “I’m from a target” (i.e. that moron SoulSearching) are merely demonstrating how retarded they are. In all likelihood, they come from a half-assed target such as UofM (i.e. that moron SoulSearching).
Myth: It is difficult to break in from a non-target
Fact: Banking is easy as shit. I come from one of the non-targets listed above and had absolutely no trouble breaking in from a non-target (multiple offers, top banks and top groups). When people say that it’s difficult to break in from a non-target, they mean that it’s difficult to break in from a tier-3, “my-SAT-score-is-lower-than-my-credit-rating” university. Why is it difficult to break in from Southern Connecticut Community College? It’s not because your college is crap, it’s because you are crap. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be at that school in the first place. Don’t make up stupid shit excuses like “I couldn’t afford a better school,” “I was a slacker in high school,” “The school gave me a good scholarship (basically, all financial excuses are crap),” etc.
Takeaway: I’ve found that 90% of this forum has an inaccurate perception of their candidacy and chances at banking. You need to realize that, regardless of your school, if you are quality, people will give you a shot. You’re likely not quality.
Myth: You can use Hong Kong as a stepping stone to NY.
Fact: This is the oldest trick in the fucking book. Don’t think that we don’t know that HK is the easiest market in which to land a position – all you need is black hair, brown eyes, and to be under 5 ft tall. Each market hires for its own business needs, and you were probably hired for the HK office (despite that you couldn’t hack it in NY) because of your ability to translate mundane documents and because nobody who’s worth a damn would ever think about applying to the Asian markets (so your competition is essentially nonexistent).
Takeaway: Why are there so many fucking Asians and Asian-Americans on this site? I’m guessing it has to do something with little-dick insecurity complex and the inability to meet the parental pressures and the constant feelings of disappointment and discouragement at failing admittance to med/law school (yes, you, startarbmonkey).
Myth: A boutique "no-name" IB/PE/etc. with relevant experience will look awesome on your resume come FT recruiting
Fact: No one gives a shit that you worked out of bumblefuck, IL doing DCF and comps analyses and putting together pitchbooks. Maybe during the heydays this would be enough to get you noticed, but, in the worst market conditions of the past decade, your crappy boutique experience won’t get you a first round.
Want to know how I (and most other bankers) currently screen resumes? We look for brand names. We don’t try and justify why you are a good candidate for banking – we try and rip apart your resume and find reasons that we shouldn’t interview you. We get enough quality resumes as it is that we don’t need to search for a reason to give someone an interview – we need to whittle down a stack of hundreds of resumes to a handful, so we have to find reasons to ding people. For example, I’ll screen the employment section for a blue-chip firm. If I’ve never heard of the employer before, I’ll completely skip over all bullet points underneath. If I find a name such as Merrill Lynch or UBS, I’ll check the person’s title/division to see whether they actually worked in IB or whether they’re trying to pass off a shitty PWM internship as something quality. I’ll quickly glance for retarded exaggerations listed under the “Activities” section, because I know that 99% of college ECs (outside of varsity sports) are bullshit, so I’ll want to see how big of a tool the dude is who listed that he “increased his investment club’s portfolio 300% over 1 semester”
The only time a boutique, no-name experience will help you is when 1.) you have a connection who tells a screener to pay special attention to your resume, or 2.) market conditions dictate that we must extend beyond our usual pool of sufficing talent.
Takeaway: Stop making retarded resumes. Creating a resume is probably the easiest shit in the world, yet, so many of you morons do it completely wrong. Stop giving retarded on WSO about how “boutique IBs will place you in an excellent position for FT recruiting”.
Myth: You’ve read enough on WSO and vault interview guides, and have an ops internship locked up, from which you’ll immediately jump to front office full time. You are the all-encompassing source of knowledge for all things banking.
Fact: You’re a fucking college sophomore/junior who hasn’t worked a day in his life and will, with a 90% likelihood, not step foot in the IBD of a BB bank in the next five years. Stop giving advice.
Takeaway: 95% of the users on this forum are ignorant rubes. I remember that kid Alphaholic who talked as if he knew everything in the world – where is he now? Some crappy no-name consulting firm. Why do so many unqualified people speak with such authority and self-confidence? I don’t understand it. This site is truly the best fucking example of the blind leading the blind.
Myth: Using industry jargon will make people respect you and trick people into thinking that you have a plethora of knowledge and qualifications regarding your given industry.
Fact: When you say that you want to “sell xyz” or that “I’m a buyer that some dude will close his account” you basically sound like a fucking retard. No one cares how you talk, trade4size, people still realize that you went to a tier-20 college and can’t get a real job for the life of you. You have a 5% chance of sneaking your way into a chop shop, so, all of a sudden, chop trading trumps all other industries in all respects. Chop traders can think analytically and quickly, while bankers are overworked, private equity guys are monkeys, fundamental hedge funds are unprofitable, yada yada yada. Prime example of sour grapes, you fucktard. Get one of these jobs first, and then talk shit - and try to do it with proper grammar and spelling (especially with extremely simple words) - then maybe I’ll be impressed.
Takeaway: Don’t be impressed by someone who tries so desperately to impress you. Also, trading is a joke of a job and any 3.3 from SCCC can get one of those jobs that T4S can’t seem to land.
Truth. Now that I'm actually working in banking, I agree by and large with what has been said above. I have been reading wso for 2 years now and have realized over time, how few posters here are legit.
Well that was enlightening. How do you have the time to post this stuff being at a top BB in a top group and all? I didn't think rockstars had so much free time on their hands.
First of all... Target schools are superior than non-targets. Yeah the day that Howard and Spelman are superior to Amherst and MIT...you are absolutely off base. Yeah kids from non-targets get in, but it is because they are great, not good, great candidates. MIT is a STRONG target by the way. I would probably rank it in the top 5 or 7.
I fully respect kids from 'non-targets' trying to break into IB...99% will be unsuccessful, but it is very difficult to break into IB from a non-target. Even from semi-targets, you have to have a great GPA and an awesome personality.
In interviewing, we definetely prefer kids that have had some 'boutique experience'. It is not about the experience itself, it is about whether or not they can handle the hours, and deal with people. Even an internship in PWM is better than nothing.
I HIGHLY doubt you had 'multiple offers' and that 'banking is easy as shit'. I went to Cornell, and I had 3 offers (out of maybe 20 interviews). This was back when the economy was booming.
It's clear that this post was written by someone who went to a non-target...
b2 isn't worth humoring. I mean shit, he spends his morning writing up these threads and sitting around reading class books to argue with a sophomore. This kid is a joke.
If you don't look at boutiques, and with the big names you only look at whether they did IB, you're basically saying that you will only look at candidates that had an IBD summer analyst position at a BB? I'm not sure I follow you.
Aside from that, great post. Can you perhaps elaborate some more on what you DO look for in a resume and in an interview? I go to a target and the few people who got IBD summer analyst positions seemed to me like the least qualified candidates (one girl didn't even know what an LBO is).
So what does it really come down to? Obviously you need to have good grades, some good internships, etc. But what really separates the people who get hired vs. the people who don't? Is it chance, great personality fit, or who you know?
B2,
Are you for real? Do you ever read your posts the following day and ask yourself "am i perhaps the biggest blowhard on WSO?"
Your so called fact are full of half truths and contradictions. You say that target schools don't matter, but then you admit that when you screen resumes you usually don't look past a former employer's brand name. Guess what, the same is true of many screener's attitude toward schools. Implying to people that it's just as easy to get into a top tier job out of Spelman (i have honestly never heard of it) as it is from MIT is just plain wrong. It sounds to me like you have a deep seeded inferiority complex about your school and having it pointed out wounds your ego. Get over it - its sounds like you actually made it - drop the chip from your shoulder and stop giving people crap advice.
You sound so desperate to be seen as a badass who beat the odds but you just sound like a tool with too much time on his hands and not enough real work to do. As a matter of fact I wonder if you are even who you say you are. Why isn't there a star next to your name?
As loathe as I am to agree with b2, he's right about some of these things (about trading, mostly, and I was a trader).
So why do I feel like I need to take a shower after reading this post?
The WSO Guide to Understanding TARP
b2 is a moron that should be banned already. I'm not Asian but why bash them ? They're like the least offensive ethnicity on Wall Street or anywhere else.
Morehouse and Spelman are third tier schools that have avg SAT's (25%/75%) of around 990-1180 they are dumb people that get recruited because they are URM.......
Well, WASPs have dominated The Street ever since it’s conception, and due to several factors, minorities, and even underprivileged White people have not been able to break in.
Dude, the chosen people dominate the street... didn't they teach you at bible camp that all jews are money grubbing heathens who will do anything for a dollar?
from one non target BB IBD waste of life to another, great post
a
isn't b2 asian? i thought i saw a post of his where he was interviewing for hk offices and considering working there. so why all the asian hate? i'm not asian but just curious
sad to say i agree with almost all of the points in a b2 post. most of the things he makes fun of are a bit extreme cases calling out some of the biggest tools on this board though (soulsearching, trade4size, etc.) which aren't necessarily representative of the wso community.
there is a lot of bullshit advice thrown around here though.
and what banks is mit not a target for? just curious - they seem to have pretty good representation at my bb this summer.
man I hope b2 is asian.
b2 must feel very entitled to make a post like this - he does have every right though. He has got it made in investment banking and life.
While his colleagues in investment banking are working on deals/doing cool adult things, b2 very graciously humbles us by posting his knowledge on WSO. He devotes many hours of his super important life to the 500+ posts he has here and creates well-formatted posts with Myth/Fact/Takeaway.
I want to thank you b2 for taking to time to post here.
making fun of boutiques is so 2006... pretty sure most rainmakers today are fleeing bulge brackets like the plague.
I love how semi-target and target students discuss chances of non-targets getting into banking. Don't you worry about us, worry about yourself.
bwahahahahaha i made it into b2's post I feel so special now. Welcome back we missed you.
I do not care about banking/pe and fundamental hedge funds got TORCHED last year. Making fun of me is not going to make others think you are cool. You add no value to the site, who is the tool again?
"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
I'm actually surprised that you didn't make some retarded market and then quote some asshole from Market Wizards.
Have you read Market Wizards? Do you realize how much money those guys make/made? As usual your comment makes no sense.
"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
I'll throw in my opinion on some of the above stated Myths, Facts, and Takeaways:
Believe it or not, we give significant credit to someone who has prior investment banking experience over those who do not. You claim that having a brand name is more important, but I completely disagree. The quality of the experience is far more important than the name of the company. I know that when we screen resumes, we look for people with a demonstrated interest in i-banking and not for bulge-bracket experience. I think you're applying your personal style and limited experience to the whole market.
While I haven't gone through the recruiting process since Fall 2006, I can tell you that it is incredibly difficult to get noticed if you didn't go to a target school. Despite the job not being challenging, there are limited spots so banks are going to grant interviews to the MOST qualified applicants, not ALL qualified applicants. This pushes those at the designated target schools to the top of the list and leaves those at the non-targets left in the waiting queue. This includes those at high-quality non-target schools as well as low-quality non-target schools. While I will agree with you that most of the resumes that come across my desk from the non-target schools are "crap," even those with incredibly strong resumes are at a disadvantage.
As for the other comments, I generally agree with them, with the exception of the HK comment. However, I've learned that some New Yorkers think NYC is the best thing since sliced bread and refuse to acknowledge that there are people in the world that DO NOT want to live or work in NYC. As a result, it's probably not even worth arguing this point.
~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker
I will take some time to address some points made (ignoring the idiots who aren’t worth my time) and then not respond again to this post.
@ MonkeyKingdom: What the fuck is wrong with your reading comprehension? I guess that's what you get with your shitty Cornell education - another prime example of how crappy some target schools can be. Where the hell did I say that Howard and Spelman are superior to Amherst and MIT? Are you really that dumb that you can’t understand a very simple, straight-forward post? “It's clear that this post was written by someone who went to a non-target...” No shit, fucking Sherlock: “I come from one of the non-targets listed above and had absolutely no trouble breaking in from a non-target”
@Spinner: I didn’t mention anything about screening schools (although the quality of school had entered my mind when I was writing the post) because, if you have ever done a day of recruiting in your life (which you obviously haven’t), you know that recruiting teams are split up by target schools. As such, a stack of resumes that I will be reviewing will all be students from the same small handful of 2-3 target schools. There is no reason to screen for schools when I have a stack of 30 Harvard, 30 Wharton, and 30 Duke. As I have already mentioned in my post (if you have any logic skills at all) you will see that top-tiered non-target schools (Amherst, Williams, Hopkins, etc.) resumes will be separated from traditional target school piles, and must find a way to gain attention (as I mentioned, via a contact who tells a screener to pay special attention to your resume). You still don’t seem to get my point that non-target schools are not inferior to target schools. My alma mater was 1000x more intellectually capable than many of the target schools (Hopkins/MIT vs NYU/Villanova, really??) just as I am 1000x more intellectually capable than you are.
@aardvarkaa: It’s because you’re smart that you agree with me. I’ve read your previous posts and I can tell that you are among the minority of users on WSO who actually has the ability to break into a white-shoed firm, if you haven’t already. Regarding MIT, I’ve interned/worked at 3 different BB banks (two of which the rubes on this site would deem “top-BBs”) and two of the three did not target MIT in their recruiting.
@compbanker: If I recall correctly, you work at a boutique IB in Charolette? I don’t know how your recruiting works, but I’m sure it’s a different recruiting process between smaller firms and BB banks. You have less resumes to screen, a less formal application process, etc., that allows you the luxury of going into more details with each one you review. When I get a stack of 100 resumes from kids that all went to H/W/Y that all have some sort of background in finance (be it no-name, boutique, MM, elite, BB, etc.), we’ll need to find a more efficient way of whittling it down. Furthermore, our recruiting is group-specific, and our group looks to take on an average of 2 new analysts every year.
Regarding breaking in from a non-target: I didn’t say that it was easy for everyone; I said that it is easy if you are qualified. By qualified, I mean that 1.) you go to a decent non-target (i.e. the ones I listed above or other elite liberal arts/top not-traditionally-finance schools), not some third-tier-toilet, and 2.) you know what it takes to get into banking (i.e. GPA, experience, network, etc.) and you are able to go and obtain those credentials – as any decently intelligent person from a top-tiered non-target can do.
It’s not difficult to call up alumni, build a rapport and get them to push for your candidacy. That’s easy as shit – you make a few phone calls and send a few emails, fucking whoop. It’s difficult to break in from a non-target if you don’t know the process, but, as I mentioned, once you know the rules of the game, it’s a completely different story.
Regardless, I’m tired of arguing with the ignoramuses on this site, because it’s impossible to win. No matter how correct I know that I am (and how correct those who have an IQ over 30 know that I am), I will never be able to convince the retards of WSO that I am right, because they are just. that. stupid. As a wise man once said, “the most difficult part about arguing with someone less intelligent than you isn’t being right; it’s asking someone of a lower intellectual caliber to see from a perspective that is beyond their intellectual capacity. This is beyond their means.” Why do you think there are always two distinct schools of thought responding to each of my posts? Read about the credentials of those who agree wholeheartedly with me and then backtrack for the credentials of those who don’t; you’ll see an underlying trend: those who agree with me are generally smarter, go to better schools, and able to break into elite firms or have worked in banking at some point in their lives, whereas those who don’t are 3.2 GPA’ed kids from shit schools like Ivey.
Honestly, arguing with the idiots on WSO is like Einstein talking to Joe the Plumber about nuclear physics. No matter how simple Einstein thinks the concepts are, and no matter how basic he breaks it down, Joe the Plumber will never understand.
I disagree with you on two of your points b2:
1) By definition, a non-target is a school that is NOT targeted by any of the larger banks--hence the name "NON"-target. ASU would be a great example of a non-target school. NYU, on the other hand, would not. NYU is a target school for some banks and not for others, thereby making it a SEMI-target, not a non-target. The same goes for some of the other names you listed.
It is indeed very difficult to break into banking from a non-target, while it is significantly more achievable to do so coming from a semi-target. I think you may have your definitions mixed up...
2) While I have never been on the other side of the recruiting table, I've found that, at least for internships, quality experience trumps brand name (to a certain extent). Doing PWM at Merrill is not going to beat doing banking at some small boutique, granted that you get a strong experience. I think that same logic would apply in full-time recruiting: why would a brand name office bitch (PWM) be better than someone who has relevant experience (no-name boutique IB)?
[quote=PussInBootsI think b2 meant that brand-name banking > no-name banking, same as brand-name PWM > no-name PWM. Comparing no-name banking and brand-name PWM is hard because PWM gigs are relatively easy to secure, even for non-targets.[/quote]
You're right. I didn't read it thoroughly enough. I just saw him putting down boutiques then talking about brand names and PWM popped up. I think I'd have to agree with him then. Having JPM IB beats out having a no-name boutique, even if the latter was a stronger experience. It's too hard to distinguish between a and b, given that both know how to write a resume.
What's wrong with Ivey? Or do all Canadian schools just suck (in my opinion they do compared to a lot of US schools)?
threads like this being so popular make this forum look really, really bad. and the fact that so many people agree with everything OP said is even more pathetic.
I'm really new here, but why does it make the forum look bad? He's no worse than the pseudo elitists who got into Harvard as a legacy yet talk shit about public schools.
fuck you b2. just fuck you.
haha nice
b2, Your attempts to downplay my rebuttals to your outrageous arguments, are more laughable than your screen-name, b2. Your overall comments are a combination of ridiculous, biased, false, and clearly from someone who doesn't work in the industry. Also, the way you wrote your prose in such a rant-like fashion, is rather disturbing, almost as if you finally got laid off from your back-office role.
The main issue I have with this site is when people like yourself attempt to correct people that have already been in the industry. Sure, I don't mind if someone disagrees with my opinion on something, as long as they have some relevant experience.
It is funny to me how bitter the kids who make into banking from a non-target get. One would think they would appreciate their 'elevated' status amongst their state-school peers, but as we have witnessed with b2, the inferiority complex which they possess is simply overwhelming.
b2 is a fucking joke.
This is why people who work in the industry actually have stars next to their names...you have 0 credibility. I am this close to deleting this entire thread because: 1) makes the site look bad 2) with 2 clicks, I'll be able to delete the 2 hours of work you put into wiriting all that BS
Haha, love it!
... maybe he will go away?
on the other hand perhaps we should just send his racist rants to his HR department. given his voluminous posting history and lack of self control i bet it wouldn't take much to finger the little prick ... thoughts?
I've already gone through his older posts. From what I remember, he works(ed) at ML, did a stint in asia (funny how he bashes HK), and started fulltime Jan of last year.
This was a while ago so my info could be incorrect.
Or....Patrick can fork over his I.P., and we can trace it directlty to his bank/location, and possibly even send it to HR/IT departments and let them figure it out.
because that would be a great way to convince more certified users to come out of the woodwork.
It just took me about 20 minutes of searching his previous posts to figure out which group he works for (that bit about a sub focus on Och-Ziff and Fortress did the trick), which analyst class he is in, where he went to undergrad, and some which PE/HF opportunities he is interested in. I don't know who he is exactly but I have good friends in PE who are from his bank so it probably wouldn't be too hard.
B2 - if you are listening buddy I suggest you tone it down a bit.
I think some people even reported his ass to the SEC. He "overheard" a few MDs talk about non-public info at his bank and then decided to post it on this board; that thread is still floating around I think.
Why the fuck do you guys get kicks out of this? What do you gain, except to convince people to remain as anonymous as possible? Mez, quit threatening to delete posts. Last thing anyone wants is a Nazi mod. I still don't see what he posted that was so bad, albeit a little unorthodox.
B2 why all the hate dude?
IBD = glorified sales job, after all
in the greater scheme of things you are as inconsequential as a speck of sand in the Sahara and all of us on here are too. We have a few decades to wander around on the planet, possibly bear offspring, and then with a probability nearing 1, we'll all be forgotten forever.
Sure his views are somewhat unorthodox, but I don't think this reaction is warranted. Chillax ....
EGO BOOST! TURBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's that little gem:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/overheard-at-my-bank
This kid used to get beat up a lot. And whats up with Asian bashing from an asian? Strange, very strange.
why are there so many pissed off asians on this forum
I think he mentioned before that he was at GS SSG or PIA, I forget which.
also, I agree with dipset, I don't see what's so offensive about this, lol, but then again, I'm not Asian nor come from a non-target.
fair question. check out the year-long posting history. it's unbelievable.
I agree with BrownBateman, people need to simmer down and stop getting all riled up about stupid Internet grudges and squabbles.
On a side note, I will real life fist fight anyone who cares to disagree with me.
It's tough to believe someone who diminishes their own credibility from one myth to another. Boutique experience does matter and its something people enjoy seeing just like the name of a target school on a resume.
Believe me, I went to a very non-target and get no credit outside of the area for having graduated from this particular school. However, I've received a truck-load of responses specifically naming my two internships despite being boutiques (pe and vc, not ib) because the managing partners are established and well known.
First of all, this is poorly written. there are lots of grammar mistakes...clearly, writing isn't your forte.
i am assuming you are unemployed (Thursday 10 AM)... he's yet another non-target trash...i am guessing Baruch, what do you think?
Only thing I agreed with in there was about that prop trading guy being annoying as hell.
All target schools ARE superior to non-target schools, and there is a spectrum of quality of schools inbetween... ie. Vilanova vs. James Madison
It IS difficult to break into banking from a non-target. But everyone has taken note of how easy it is for you... b2=BSD, noted.
I don't know anything about Hong Kong, so I can't comment.
A boutique no-name IB/PE with relevant experience will look awesome on your resume? This affirms my suspicion that there is no way in hell you work in finance. While I previously suspected you were a troll college student, now I suspect you're a college graduate/drop-out and IBD-wannabe who never made it and is instead working in operations. While having Evercore, Lazard, etc... on your resume may get all 4 of your bullet points examined instead of skimmed, thats as far as it goes. Having RELEVANT work experience is key. I've seen tons of resumes from from Rothschile summer associates, I don't know if they recruited heavily from a few of the schools we focus on or if they just took ALOT of summers, but the name doesn't do shit when your a summer associate spread transaction comps for 10 weeks. If there is no name PE experiecne on a resume, and the experiecne consists of executing 3 solid deals start to finish... that speaks for itself. Its all about the RELEVANT EXPERIENCE not the name, while the name does help to get you noticed or help you edge out someone else., all else equal. A boutique internship will make you a better candidate than no internship or ML PWM internship, like the one you got dinged form b2.
The takeaway is actually that b2 is a bitter troll who knows next to nothing about the way things actually work. The one thing he has made very clear is how easy everything is for him, like writing a resume, landing a job, and trading.... I'm curious to know the experience you have trading. Also, b2, let me clarify something that may not immediately be clear to a 3rd rate d-bag who strives for mediocrity... nearly everything in life is easy if your standards are low enough, actually being good at it, is a whole different story. So while playing golf, trading securities, working in PE, and going to college may all be VERY easy, actually having standards and being the best at it, is not so much. This is one thing I don't expect you to understand, and it is the reason you will spend all your years a miserable impersonating troll.
I disagree with trading being "a joke of a job," some products are very simplistic and more what you are referring to, but not all. Not to mention its not like you have to be a genius to succeed at banking either for the most part.
I spoke to Patrick a while ago. He discourages the deletion of posts unless its under extreme circumstances. This specific post was offensive, but not as bad as some of the other stuff thats posted here.
I wanted to delete b2's post because it would have pissed him off after he spent 2 hours writing all that garbage...I guess it was more personal.
Again, b2 is a fucking joke.
Bullshit, you delete my posts all the time.
settle down.
nobody's posts are getting deleted.
everyone just take a breath.
I am one of the only mods who deletes posts?!?! Stop pulling these lies out of your ass.
When have I ever, EVER, deleted posts (other than my own)? Patrick has the records, he can back this up.
I don't understand what you're getting all rattled for. If you come on here spewing racism and hate, your anonymity will eventually get compromised (anyone remember London).
I brought myself down to b2's level, my mistake. To everyone else, b2 is a clown show, dont take any of his posts seriously.
While I don't agree with the tone, most of the content that B2 posts is pretty accurate. When he says we don't give a shit about boutiques, we don't care about places that nobody has ever heard of, they might as well have been made up. MM boutiques with reputations, i.e. Sagent, RW Baird, Peter Solomon, and Stifel Nicholas will get your resume read at the very least. school rankings are all relative and in the eyes of the evaluator. Everyone knows about H/W/S, when I began, I didn't know much of anything about the LACs, much less where they rank in relation to other target schools. Therefore, if I didn't know the school, it went in the trash. Lucky for most of you folk, IB is well represented with people who obsessed over this kind of stuff in HS/College, and know the rankings like the back of their hands. I also agree that a lot of the stuff written on here must be laughable to anyone that has gotten beyond the one week stage at a major bank when the glory wears off. Best advice to everyone here is to network your ass off. How will you know when you have actually made a friend? When the bankers are bitching about their job rather than telling you how great it is. Finally, analyst work is very easy (understanding the ideas and strategies behind the addition and subtraction are a bit more complicated), but definitely should not be a significant barrier to entry. There are plenty of guys with shitty GPAs, but they have a lot to show otherwise. They have legit networks. Not the type where they wrote a thousand emails, and had a few awkward phone calls. They are likeable people, who were able to become legitimate friends with the right people. Not everyone can do this. If you come off as a douche on this site, you probably are in real life, and you can't get in this way. You better hope that your brains impress the hell out of someone in the interview, otherwise, you won't get your ass in the door. There are major trade offs to working in this industry, many of which are glossed over on this site. Until you have worked 110 hour weeks (40 of which you are sitting around waiting for an email or on a conference call), don't tell me that you know you can handle the hours.
I like how these threads liven up the forum...
I agree with some points, it's a mix of truth and it depends.
I'm curious about the HK part, to what extent is that true? I understand that it is "easier" to break into HK, but why wouldn't it be a stepping stone? I think it's more relevant than say a no-name boutique firm, but then again I don't know the type of work one would be doing in Asia. Does the difficulty or type of work at a BB vary dramatically between U.S. and H.K.?
Mez I have only ever deleted spam post. While I think his post is shitty and should be gone, it is not our place as mods to do such a thing. Just let him troll, and if he is half of what he says and continues to spew his bullshit, people will find out who he is.
Small_talk-gone LondonE1- gone spaceship/tetris/big_polo-gone B2-.....
Agreed.
I don't take b2 seriously, hence, I posted something that was inline with what I thought of him.
I love how I get singled out in his post... since when does he add any type of value whatsoever? He throws a fit because I went to a tier 20 school with a crappy GPA yet still know what im talking about? Its sad this post got this many responses as someone above me said you all played into his little game. He is one super successful troll I give him that...
"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
...I recently had a birthday and for the next year I promised my yoga instructor that I would be a more positive person, but nevertheless I will respond to b2's "trading is a joke job" remark. As an aside, I will say that I generally like b2 and admire his ability to get the group here riled up and he seems to actually at least have a job in finance which is a nice change. Also, anyone who would even consider reporting him to the SEC for a stupid comment about Barclays is a complete tool. I think we have all heard people at work speculate about the solvency of various financial institutions its really no big deal.
However, B2, in making comments like this it clear that you have a warped sense of what defines success on wall street...or perhaps we just differ in that definition. I would say that I am probably 5 years older then you and I would also strongly guess that I have made more money in the last 5 years trading liquid markets at a hedge fund and a bank prop trading desk then you will over your next 5. Further, I have pretty spectacular opportunities to do better in the coming years as I have a good job and a track record that makes it fairly easy to get a job anywhere I want even if my current one stops working out. I also probably work half the hours you do in the office, although i do alot of reading/work outside the office. So what's the joke in that?
I think the reason you (and other bankers) look down upon trading, even in cases where it is clearly profitable and provides a better lifestyle then the one they will have even if they are successful is that bankers are generally people who like hierarchy and do not like to take risk. You prefer to have a safe job that your parents can brag about to their friends as opposed to being in this business to make money, have a good lifestyle, etc. That is fine, a smart person once said that everyone gets what they want out of life, even those who seem like failures. I will keep making more money then you will while trading/running money and you will keep getting a sense out of prestige out of banking. We both are doing well in our own way.
I'm glad the self-control mechanisms of this forum still seem to work.
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