Feel Guilty about not doing IBD anymore
Barely two weeks ago, I was over the moon about starting my new IBD job at an investment bank.
A week ago, I was surprised that I was sent to Corporate Solutions (For some reason it's classified under the Capital Markets group in Investment Banking, it's FX and Rates origination + Sales)
Now, now I wake up at 7am, yawning as I head into work, choking down some stale bread as breakfast, trying not to throw up eating at lunch and return home at 8pm, just in time for dinner that I won't be able to finish.
I used to be an energetic, active and extremely motivated person. Now I barely want to get out of bed. I think about throwing myself in front of a bus just to get out of work.
I feel guilty about it. My new team was expecting a bright-eyed, inquisitive intern, clueless but hungry for more.
They've been as accommodating to me as possible. I get to work at 8:30am and leave at 7pm. The other interns are lucky if they get out before midnight.
I feel guilty about missing my family, that I want to leave early for them, but they've been accommodating me by pushing their own dinners later just so they could eat them with me.
I feel guilty about having a job that most people would kill for.
I feel guilty that I'm so privileged that I could consider quitting this job because I don't actually have to worry about putting food on the table.
I feel guilty that I'm all talk and nothing inside, that I could talk such big game about being an investment banker only for me to crumple immediately under pressure.
I already know that I'm not going to accept a return offer even if they give one to me, but what do I do afterwards? I feel nauseous looking at the markets, Bloomberg, the news.
Any advice from anyone who's had something similar? Or from those more mature in the industry?
So it sounds like you were hoping for IBD classic but got placed in a S&T role? Whatever the case, you are an intern. It's only 8/10/12 weeks. Just suck it up, get your offer, and pursue whatever you want for FT.
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Try and create as good an impression as possible during your internship to get the return offer. Some sacrifices may have to be made in the short-term but the good news is it will be only be for a couple of months.
After your internship, try and leverage the offer to something that is better suited to you - whether that is another part of IB, wider finance, or something different altogether.
You don't need to feel bad that you aren't enjoying your internship as much as you thought. You did the hard work to get it, so you deserve to be there, and you can use this as an opportunity to decide what you want to do (or don't want to do). While it is a stepping stone / pipeline for a FT offer, it should not be forgotten that it is equally as importantly, a great learning experience that will help you understand where your interests / strengths lie.
a) you deserve to be there, don’t beat yourself up over the fact that you don’t enjoy it
b) it’s only a SA position, you don’t need to work there FT. BUT, if you can, try to leave the best impression possible so that you get a FT offer (even if you don’t accept it). Ending on a good relationship even if you don’t come back can be a big deal for you in the future. It’s a short program, so try to find any bit of it you can enjoy until it’s over
c) just like the comment above me, it’s just a job. if it’s really ruining your life then you can step away. dontbeat yourself up about it.
Also; it is important to be grateful for the opportunity you have and not to take it for granted, but shake the attitude of guilt you feel right now. You deserve to be there and the moment you think you don’t is the moment you’ve lost
Good luck bro
I'm confused on what the problem is? It sounds like your hours are better than most people in IB, but they're obviously still a lot and it's too much for you. But also it seems like you'd rather be on an actual IB team and not this hybrid S&T team. If it's more the latter and you think you won't mind the extra hours if you switch to a better group, then sign up to switch groups when you get the FT offer. I went that route and my placement was a million times better. But if the hours right now are killing you and the thought of working more is terrible, then get out of IB. Hype up your resume and use your banking experience to get a FT offer where the hours are 9-5. The pay won't match IB but if you hate your life now, then getting out is the best thing you can do.
Interesting to hear that people from the IBD side consider Corporate Solutions to be on the S&T side of things. People on the S&T side consider Corporate Solutions to be more IBD work. Almost all of the people in S&T who have worked in that group have disliked it. I guess Corporate Solutions is just universally despised... (Edit, this is from the small sample of analysts whom I have spoken with)
And yes, the guilty feeling of having a job that most people would kill for but still want to quit is present in that set of people as well.
OP your post is strangely relatable, as I have the same issues except the guilt is in signing up for S&T, being excited to be a markets professional, stare at markets and Bloomberg all day, but end up doing banker work. Maybe the work in this group is just uninspiring for all?
What does your day to day look like? How does comp scale in your group versus traditional IBD? i.e, what do ASO's & VP's make in a group like this? Curious because Ive never heard this kind of work mentioned (obviously it exists, just interested in more info).
OP here, if you really wanted to know:
7am, wake up, get on commute to work
8:30, arrive at the office and begin reading about last night's events
9, send out the daily market report as the full timers arrive
9:30, get 'feedback' from the full-timers, of which they are semi-contradictory (one wants it short and sweet and one wants elaboration and explanation). The full timers read the reports from the research team at this point, and basically ignore what I've written save the Asshole VP trying to 'mentor' me by saying "back when I was in trading, I got in the office at 7:30am."
10, clients begin calling in, I ask them to leave a message if the full-timers are busy, in the meantime I work on Excel doing a risk analysis on M&A deals (What I did was a linear regression a la factor model)
11, I get to hear the Regional Head get chewed out by the Global Head about our revenues this year, Regional Head looks at the picture of his wife and two sons, smiles before he books more meetings.
12:30, I get up and leave for lunch in the company cafeteria. Occasionally I'll be taken by the Associates to meet former colleagues who've all left this group
13:30, return to the desk and get coached on how to use a propreitary derivatives pricing system
14:00, inevitably call IT as something doesn't work
15:00 With the system fixed I get to do some small, safe trials with the pricing system
16:00 Full timers work begins to slowly die down and they have more time to talk with each other, I spend it looking up research for the intern project and asking them for help.
18:00 Finish up a market update slide the Asshole VP wanted, give it to him. He tells me to wait a little as he hops on a call with an MD to kiss his ass about doing him little favours like putting him on the deal registers
19:00 Asshole VP is done, deletes all of the commentary I wrote, retypes it and emails the text it back just for me to copy-paste back into the slide just to send it back to him
19:30 Leave the office. Some of the full timers already left at 6:30 but I have to get some Facetime in, or some get offended.
20:30 Get home, shower and eat dinner.
22:00 Have a little time to work on my hobbies, before I have to go to bed.
The full timers spend more time trying to lock down clients and pitching them our FX Forwards, Cross Currency Swaps and Interest Rate Swaps as a hedge.
Compensation wise, it's the same as all of the other IBD teams for base salary, which is street comp.
Bonuses are usually decent, somewhere between S&T and IBD bonuses, but judging by how they look this year I don't expect a high amount.
very interesting
I would avoid being overly specific if I were u
This happened to me also a few years ago and I was devastated. You can lateral after the summer.
Is it your junior year SA? If not, check your ego and recruit again for next year. If it is, check your ego and pick your head up. Being upset about not being an ‘actual’ banker is going to do nothing but hurt you. You’re not gonna be able to focus on work and the little work you can focus on is going to suffer bc you are dragging yourself down.
You CANNOT change the position you’re in for this summer so you might as well stop worrying about it and try to be the best intern you can think of. Your best bet is to at the very least secure a recommendation from your team. If you secure an offer, even better. This will make your story look better when you’re FT recruiting - banks want candidates that other banks want.
What you CAN do is focus on FT recruiting. If you haven’t started networking, you need to start today. Polish your resume and start reaching out to your network. Banking is quite literally an industry that requires repeatedly failing until you don’t. This is one of those situations but look on the bright side - you’re one step closer to IB and you’re getting paid.
Good luck
Curious because I never did IB - is it standard across the industry to get an IB internship or FT position without knowing your group beforehand? You guys go in knowing there's a 10% or whatever chance you might get shafted into a role like this? Or did HR not communicate this was a possibility?
I can't prove it, but at least in my experience, you got the job as an investment banking intern before you knew what group you were going to be working at.
HR does ask you for your preferences after, but the Bank will still entirely ignore it if they want to.
I.e. I put Capital Markets last and still got assigned anyway. The group heads said that they got an excel sheet with our preferences and ignored it.
But there's usually a relatively low chance to get shafted, as a majority of people get somewhere they're fine with
Ok, sorry to hear that. I did S&T as an intern and based on the desks I met with during the interview process, I had a good feeling they liked me and I'd be placed with them if I asked (which I did). That's why I wondered how one could possibly be so blindsided.
Anyways for FT I joined what had historically been one of the best / most profitable desks. For various reasons it was a horrible experience but I managed to parlay that into what eventually became a dream job.
Hope that gives you some encouragement that even if you had gotten the exact group placement you wanted, there's a million things that can go wrong that are out of your control. And conversely, even if you find yourself in a crap situation with seemingly no outs (certainly felt that way to me), you can always make your own way.
Like others have said: tough it out for a couple more weeks, put on a happy face and good attitude, and leverage that into something else closer to your end goal. You're just getting started, you have a long runway and lots of doors open to you. It's ok to be pissed but don't let this early setback get you down permanently.
man up
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