Firm Compensation

Now that recruiting is coming to a wrap, does anyone want to begin compiling how much firms are offering in terms of first year comp? (Base-Signing)? This could apply to both banks (S&T) and prop trading.

 

JSC: 125K SIG: 100K IMC Optiver DRW: 85K

Don't forget 125K in NYC = 85K in Chicago in terms of COL. But first year comp really doesn't matter in prop shops. You can easily pull out 200~300K in your second year in these prop shops (for IMC and Optiver, where you can start trading after 3 months).

 
QWEigniteR:

You can easily pull out 200~300K in your second year in these prop shops (for IMC and Optiver, where you can start trading after 3 months).

Where do you get that number from? I finally got in contact with someone at one of the 3 shops you mentioned, and I don't hear anyone "easily" pulling in those numbers. Not to say it's unthinkable, but by what you're saying, you're saying it's normal.

I've also talked to people at some other shops and they don't seem to be rolling in money either. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think that's inaccurate saying that normally kids who go in are making 300 grand right off the bat. I know from speaking to several people in these places that they're not - at least not consistently

 

I work at one of those shops. Unlike SIG and DRW where you are an assistant trader for more than a year, you start trading much faster in IMC and Optiver. If you are good and not fired, you can make shit loads of money. Traders who worked there more than 3 years literally made a million post-tax at 2008 crisis (their bonus is paid by euros).

 
klaasv:

Not sure if it was "easily" but average salary for all 619 imc employees was 285k euro over 2013. IMC has maybe a little bit more skewed distribution compared to Optiver. See also: http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2013/03/details-bon...

I never trust anything like this that's just randomly posted. It could be complete BS

I think the main takeaway is this: If you're looking to make tons of money, I don't think trading is necessarily the best path. Things like real estate, business ownership, or others can have higher success rates. This isn't the early 2000's where you see 24 year old kids driving Maseratis because of all the money they made trading. For every person that even actually MAKES it into one of these groups, even much fewer still break into the high levels of income. And when you think about it that way, is it any different from going and working at a bank or getting a corporate job? There, too, only a certain portion will ever get up into the upper brackets. That being said, I think trading is absolutely fascinating, I read tons of books on markets, and try to study to learn as much as I can. But is it probably the best path if you just want to make loads of money? I think there's more sure paths that are more easily tread...

I've heard of guys my age making money in tech, heard of guys making money in real estate, heard of guys making money in businesses....I hear more of these stories than I hear today of young traders that get into the business and make tons of money. Is there really a reason to fight an uphill battle (trading)?

 
Best Response

I completely disagree. Trading is one of the few endeavors that is designed to give you and your team a revenue generating platform from inception, which is the basis for any role that brings in outsized compensation. Trading gives you access far earlier than other career paths.

Secondly, being successful at trading is just like being successful in life. It is boring, tedious, monotonous work that is built upon a sound foundation day after day. I've found nothing glamorous or enchanting about trading but many give it this mystical/mythical aura. It is a job/profession like any other but it is a results and performance based business. If everyone in the world that had a job were paid for performance most people would starve. Trading gets a bad rep because "trader" is a very vague title that ranges from the Ivy league educated professional with 15 years of work experience who just landed a PM role to the unemployed waiter that joined an "arcade" prop shop. The ease of entry skews results, you'll notice the higher the bar of entry of different "trading" roles, the higher their respective success rates.

Don't romanticize about opening a business, competition is thick, margins are low and it is incredibly difficult with just as high of a failure rate. Though you'll see a higher success rate among professionals with decades of experience who branch out on their own vs a techie at a "start up" or the 7-11 owner. In short, the successful people in any industry are all cut from the same cloth and must overcome similar levels of adversity. The only way to improve your odds of success is to find out which platform is suited to your skill sets.

 

Optiver's bonus primarily depends on how the firm does as a whole. Not sure if you guys have heard of Optiver's "marble" system. Each "marble" is determined by profits in euros, so some it also depends on the dollar/euro exchange rate.

regarding marbles.. i have a source who is a friend that used to work at Optiver.. i might be mistaken so please correct if you know exactly. its been a while since my friend told me this so at Optiver the way you get bonus is two fold as a trader, you can be lvl1, lvl2, lvl3 (partners i have no idea how that works) lvl1 gets 100 marbles, lvl2 gets 400 marbles, and lvl3 gets 900 marbles each marble is worth something that reflects how well the company is doing finally, you get rated from 1 to 5 (1 being the best, 5 worst) by your supervisor in your annual review most people get 3’s if you get a 1, you get 200% of your allotted marbles if you get a 2, you get 150% of your marbles if you get a 3, 100% 4, 50% 5, 0% (4 and 5 might be 75% and 50% but im not sure since you rarely hear of this instance)

Trainee bonus is around $40k.

 

Minima in non nesciunt. Voluptatem autem occaecati saepe incidunt qui. Exercitationem maxime sit omnis quos. Nesciunt consequatur ullam dolores ad accusantium dignissimos fugiat consectetur. Modi est consequatur qui officiis ut dolorem.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”