First Presidential Debate

Alright boys and girls, first debate tonight at 9pm eastern time. I think it's going to be good, I wanna see how both guys go head to head and how they defend their positions now that their both face to face and can't be behind a screen. I think Trump will 'win' based on his bombastic nature even if Biden makes good points. 
Also looking forward to more memorable debate moments for this election cycle. We had the classic, "only Rosie O'Donnell..." in 2016 and "You'd be in jail" was a great one too. 

I should add, I hope for this thread to be more of a discussion of the candidates polices,what they say in the debate, what we think of them and what we'd like to see done in the next 4 years. I know we have some strong opinions about POTUS and Biden but let's try to stay civil, there is enough anger out there.

Comments (135)

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 8:05pm

Anyone watching the pre-debate discussions?

I tried watching both CNN and FOX but they are both so cringe that I want to throw up.

I hope that the debate is good. I have a hope that it actually might be pretty civil and thought provoking. But I'm probably wrong and it's gonna turn into 2 senile men cat fighting one another.

But yes, at least we should keep this thread civil.

 
Controversial
Sep 29, 2020 - 8:37pm

Biden.

His healthcare, economic, and immigration policies are actually economically sound and promote well-rounded growth while having goodish social safety net (except for the social security part). I have mixed feelings on his foreign and education policy stances though. Also no no on raising corporate tax. But considering that bunch of Nobel Prize winning economists are supporting Biden, I'm at least willing to give a shot on economic policies I don't agree with.

Only thing Trump has going for me is low corporate tax, school choice (idk if he's doing it right though), Bill Barr trying to get rid of Affirmative Action, and trying to reduce Social Security. So far Trump only delivered on the corporate tax. Trump is a disaster on healthcare and immigration IMO. Not a big fan of his "non-interventionist" pretense, it only really benefits China. Also, Trump's penchant for anti-science stances is a huuge turn off.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 8:31pm

My favorite liberal.

jk. I agree, even as a republican, I want to see bullshit getting called out. Hopefully, they don't let either side off easy.

The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:10pm

I would have liked joe rogan to moderate.

"woah... yeah it's entirely possible. You ever try DMT, Jaimie pull that video up of that guy that got mauled by a deer, they're crazy animals man."

The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:16pm

Ugh same, I was expecting 2016 debates Trump. I was expecting Biden to have a shitty performance, and The Donald was going to rip him to shreds (don't hate Biden, it's just what trump does). I think Biden got this win, hopefully Donald can come come back in the ones coming up and give his views clearly.

The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do.

 
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  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:12pm

I feel like Trump is like 1/3 of the people I've met on Wall Street: Rich daddy that bought their way into a target and then goes around telling non-targets "don't ever talk to me about being smart"

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 2:45am

But can you really blame him? 

All his life, his father groomed him into believing that: 

1) He's übermensch - genetically gifted and superior to everyone else. He's spouting racehorse theory, throws around "good genes" all the time, and what not. It perfectly aligns with what his nieces has said about him, and his father, along with what his Wharton professor said; that Trump came to the University, believing that he knew everything, with zero will to learn.

2) There are only winners and losers, and that it's a zero-sum game. Losers, in any form, are simply weak humans that deserve to get killed off by predators - and again, this probably ties in with the above, where he simply assumes that he's some kind of genius, and all failures in life must be the result of someone else. 

 

Trump is the kind of guy that would show up to a job interview, get asked "What's your biggest weakness", and reply "I have no weaknesses. None." in a 100% serious manner. 

 

 
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Sep 29, 2020 - 10:23pm

I really cannot comprehend how someone can support Trump when he literally refused to condemn the KKK and other hate groups after being asked more than 3 times to do so. Cannot wait for the fact checkers to come through and show how everything Trump said is Bullshit....only to be disgusted when the 70% of Americans without a higher education vote for the same dude who is fucking them with healthcare.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:44pm

Trump has condemned them, numerous times. His performance tonight was weak, not at all like Trump. He kept saying the same stuff over and over again. With that said, a lot of people that vote for Trump are not uneducated, they're just tired of the same old promises that go unfulfilled to them. In Trump they see someone different. Someone who'll stand up for them. He hasn't done as much as many thought he would. Still  they're still going to vote for him because he's not a Washington insider but Biden is the definition of what half the country doesn't want anymore. 
Does he lie? Yes he does, bullshit has come out of his mouth and he probably isn't the best person either from what we know. However, he isn't a monster like the left portray him as.

You bring up healthcare, over the years I've come around on issue myself and think we need more affordable care, it's crazy how in a developed nation, people get life saving treatment, only to be destroyed financially by the medical bills. I'm not for socialist style care, but something where the poor and middle classes can get decent, affordable care.

The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do.

 
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:14pm

I thought Trump's performance was him being more "Trump" than ever before.

 

But on a second note, I see in your previous comments in the thread that you would vote for Trump. So if just looking at the two different stances on healthcare, why does it not make sense for you to vote for Biden? What is more important than that single issue that makes you want to support Donald Trump?

 

From an objective POV, the logical candidate is Biden. Everyone sucks each other off on this forum about resumes and stats. By simpling comparing the two candidates, it is extremely illogical for someone to vote for Trump. As finance professionals, we make sound decision, so why is voting for a leader any different?

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 3:06am

I've done some digging into this for the past months, and from what I can see, the fervent Trumpers seem to fall into these categories. 

1. Single-issue voters (guns, immigration, taxes) that simply see democratic rule as unthinkable. 

2. Party-over-country voters. These are the tribal-voters that stick with Trump, no mater what, because he's the only guy on the ticket. 

3. The ignorant voters. These swallow the propaganda raw, and just trust him blindly. These are in the "too far gone" category, because they will take Trumps word for gospel, and nothing in the whole world will change their minds...It's like those online scam victims, that still believe, years later after being defrauded by some Nigerian prince, that the money will arrive. 

4. Nationalists, racists, etc. that believe Trump will push their agendas. 

etc. 

Most of the "critical" supporters seem to fall into the single-issue category - I've lost count how many times I've observed people say/write "I think it's horrible that he did [X], but issue [Y] is simply too important for me". 

 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:50am

tackytech

I've done some digging into this for the past months, and from what I can see, the fervent Trumpers seem to fall into these categories. 

1. Single-issue voters (guns, immigration, taxes) that simply see democratic rule as unthinkable. 

2. Party-over-country voters. These are the tribal-voters that stick with Trump, no mater what, because he's the only guy on the ticket. 

3. The ignorant voters. These swallow the propaganda raw, and just trust him blindly. These are in the "too far gone" category, because they will take Trumps word for gospel, and nothing in the whole world will change their minds...It's like those online scam victims, that still believe, years later after being defrauded by some Nigerian prince, that the money will arrive. 

4. Nationalists, racists, etc. that believe Trump will push their agendas. 

etc. 

Most of the "critical" supporters seem to fall into the single-issue category - I've lost count how many times I've observed people say/write "I think it's horrible that he did [X], but issue [Y] is simply too important for me". 

 

Spot on. I could've fell into the first category too at one point in my life. But then I grew up and stepped outside of my bubble.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:26pm

Biden acted professionally and in a dignified manner. I am not sure how to describe Trump's performance.

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Sep 29, 2020 - 10:27pm

>They are not debating they are just shouting over each other

>Trump put on a bit too much fake tan

>Biden's tactic is to stare at the camera and refer to "you the people"

>Trump's tactic is to shout over Biden when Biden is about to make a good point

>Biden got really triggered over his son

>Moderator just happened to swoop in and save Biden just as he was getting killed over law and order

>You would have thought that the moderator would actually moderate, and maybe even fact check

 

Winner: the people who decided not to watch this shit

 
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Sep 29, 2020 - 10:45pm

All three did a terrible job.

I'm generally very tolerant of Trump's antics, but he was way to harsh this time. "Don't every talk to me about smart." "Your son got kicked out of the military on cocaine." Holy shit.

Biden was Biden.

Chris Wallace could have stayed more neutral. He sometimes made it seem 2v1.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:54pm

Ha, I was expecting the Trump we usually get in these debates. Boy, I was wrong. Biden did a better job then I thought he would.

If you're referring to me as a Trump supporter, I'm not really at the level of those you're talking about. It's why I put win in quotes.

The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:57pm

MaxEpic

Ha, I was expecting the Trump we usually get in these debates. Boy, I was wrong. Biden did a better job then I thought he would.

If you're referring to me as a Trump supporter, I'm not really at the level of those you're talking about. It's why I put win in quotes.

Older people, probably some who are much more bland than me--classical music lovers and such--are going to act like Biden stooped to his level, it's so bad. But at the end of the day, he met Trump where he is, and as the incumbent, he has dragged the country down with him already. Doesn't make sense for Biden to try and remain 20 ft high, while Trump is sub sea level; Biden would miss the fight every time if he did that.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:55pm

One thing that stood out was the racial sensitivity training stuff. I don't think Trump really knew what's so dangerous about post modernism. In fact, I doubt he actually knows what it even is.

If he did, Trump would have pointed out some of the actual crazy beliefs that are being taught instead of just saying "they're crazy". Then Biden would've been forced to say that he wants to reform sensitivity training.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:00pm

Me too. If Trump was actually smart and knew what he was doing I'd actually consider supporting him.

For a brief moment during Trump admins first year I actually had high hopes that Trump might be a smart president who actually knows how to run things. Him appointing people like Mnuchin, Tillerson, and Mattis were good signs. Lowering corporate taxes was another. But then the rest happened and I was disillusioned pretty quickly.

 

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:58pm

Not for nothing, it was like watching a boxing match. 

Trump was just trying to throw junk at Biden early to see if he would stumble. 

Biden was trying to keep his cool, look into the camera, and look "presidential".

Not really a winner, we all lost that of everyone in the country we keep going back to the well. 

Bill Burr said it on his podcast last week, 99% of the country already knew who they were voting for in 2016. 

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:07pm

ironman32

Not for nothing, it was like watching a boxing match. 

Trump was just trying to throw junk at Biden early to see if he would stumble. 

Biden was trying to keep his cool, look into the camera, and look "presidential".

Not really a winner, we all lost that of everyone in the country we keep going back to the well. 

Bill Burr said it on his podcast last week, 99% of the country already knew who they were voting for in 2016. 

In 2016, no one knew who this guy Trump was except as a reality tv show runner. In 2020, everyone knows his style. Biden would've been a fool to not understand that he was going to be subjected to name calling, constant interruptions, and wild storytelling. I think he came prepared to take what he could get. There is no real debate with Trump because he can barely even construct a sentence. So, what's the point? Talking to the camera was the only time Biden could put his impact on the debate as it pertains to the American people. The rest was just necessary engagement over 1 1/2 hours with a bully.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:16pm

Hmm? Maybe in 2016.

But I went to a school in the Midwest and I know far too many 2016 Trump voters who said they'd vote for Biden if he runs or would consider voting for Biden because what they lose in some policy preferences they'll gain in presidential decorum and leadership.

It remains that there still are a lot of undecided votes. Lots of them want to see if Biden will be presidential enough to lead a country. A lot of them want to see if Biden is actually dementia ridden or not. A lot of them want to really see if Biden is really gonna be the "radical left puppet" or not. And they also want to see whether Biden will actually bring on some change.

I think Biden hit on the first 2 points pretty well. He was mostly professional, showed leadership, and was fairly articulate minus minor gaffes.

Mixed on the third point though. Biden tried to distance himself from "defund thr police" by explaining his plan to put more mental health support for police officers (which is literally the way to fix police brutality that politicians have been ignoring for a long time). He also tried to distance himself from the Green New Deal by trying to explain why his plan is more realistic and actually good for the economy. But he didn't hit all the points. His message was very subtle here though. Maybe that was intentional. But who knows. 

Weak on the 4th point. Trump could've had his way with 47 years in Congress vs 47 months of his presidency if he smbrought it up at the right moment. But executed poorly on Trump's part. This might be challenging for Biden to answer. I think there's an easy answer there though, "I was one of 100 Senators. I did my best. Because I know that wasn't enough, I'm and I have tried running for president. " or somewhere along those lines.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:18pm

People can't ignore it, but they're still gonna vote for him. You heard about the 'silent majority'? Basically that most of the country is against the radical left and will support trump this time around. 

The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do.

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 1:32am

Exactly. However there is something that scares me about Trump in terms of how detached from reality it seemed of him becoming president during the previous election and then watching it actually happen. Pretty irrational but I just can't shake that feeling. 

On another note, why do some people think that a Biden win will be worst for equities than a Trump win? Don't think necessarily Trump getting reelected will hurt the stock market but wouldn't Biden winning and Dems taking the senate be a big medium/long term boost for equities as that would mean serious stimulus will be passed? The Fed keeps harping on how important that is and the moments when equities seemed to be correcting recently seemed to be spurred by investors realizing that there is no chance of this happening until post inauguration.

Array
 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:21pm

One final thing and I'll go to bed.

I think it was very tactical thing for Biden to try to show the clear disparities btw him and Trump in terms of their compassion and empathy.

Trump came off as an self-important ass. While Biden came off as a genuine person who cares about people.

Not sure how much votes that'll sway but it's definitely something that some people wanted to see.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:31pm

My two cents trying to be unbiased as possible (and full disclosure: I hate Trump as much as anyone on this website)

 

Trump was who he is - a bully. Has not once shown the temperament or respect for our country and the electoral process that we should demand from our President. He debases the office he holds every day, and tonight was no different. He articulated no vision, and just showed up to argue. He refused to condemn the Proud Boys (who are currently celebrating online) and continues to hit Biden with a low blow on his son Hunter Biden, who is case you forgot, is not running for public office. Absolutely terrifying this man holds our nuclear codes. He all but demanded that his supporters contest the election, and I expect one of the ugliest chapters in American history to play out if he loses the election.

Biden was..fine. He clearly isn't as sharp as he once was, trips over his words, and struggles to 'hit back' and think on his feet. He's by no means senile, but I think we'd all wish both candidates were 25 years younger. That being said, I prefer his composure, call for unity, and vision far more than Trump. I'm not sure what else he can do to denounce the Far Left - he spoke of supporting law enforcement, denied support for the Green New Deal, and denounced violent responses to police brutality. If you continue to believe he is a puppet of the Left, nothing he nor I could say would convince you otherwise.

Chris Wallace sucked, but was put in an impossible situation with Trump refusing to shut his trap for more than 5 seconds. I don't know why they can't cut the mics when they're not supposed to be talking so we the American public can actually hear and learn something.

In summary, no minds were changed tonight, and you saw what you wanted to see. If the polls are truly Biden + 8, then that isn't changing, and this election is already decided.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:53pm

I disagree that no minds were changed. I lived in the Midwest for a while (during 2016, in college) and I know too many 2016 Trump voters who hated voting for him. Good number of them explicitly told me that the would have voted for Biden or would have considered Biden if he ran. 

With the "radical lefr" now being a big political concern, I'm sure many of them are still undecided. 

I think Biden really spoke to this group of undecided swing voters. Could've explicitly condemned the radical left, but I guess Biden wants them to vote for him so maybe it was a good move talking about his solutions instead of attacking the people.

 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:55pm

Milton Friedchickenman

 

I think Biden really spoke to this group of undecided swing voters. Could've explicitly condemned the radical left, but I guess Biden wants them to vote for him so maybe it was a good move talking about his solutions instead of attacking the people.

I'll repeat what I said above - I'm not sure what else he can do to denounce the Far Left - he spoke of supporting law enforcement, denied support for the Green New Deal, and denounced violent responses to police brutality. If you continue to believe he is a puppet of the Left, nothing he nor I could say would convince you otherwise. If voters think AOC tells Biden what to do, then there's nothing Biden can do or say to convince them otherwise.

Meanwhile, Trump couldn't bring himself to condemn white nationalists, which is the easiest layup any President will ever have.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
 
Sep 30, 2020 - 12:05am

It's not really about changing minds at this point, but about base turnout. If Trump can generate a few zingers about the radical left and dem run city destruction, he can a. generate organic content on social media without having to pay for ads and b. show the appearance of momentum. Momentum matters - forgot where I read this, but it's why cables news with political leanings see their viewership fall after their party loses.

If I was a Trump staffer, I would have said that Trump had an A debate from the following:

-Spent almost no time defending his record on COVID at all which objectively is about as bad as it gets - when prompted to do so, immediately turned around and said Biden would have been worse

-Talked over Biden whenever Biden was about to make a point / Trump was going to get attacked, muddling up as many chances of Biden generating the same 15 second news clips as possible

-Threw in as many insults as possible to generate the Twitter one liners

-Spent almost no time talking about policy details - only broad generalizations. In general, when Trump starts getting into policy, he becomes unable to coherently utilize the English language (see - 2016 campaign, White House briefings, Sean Hannity question on second term agenda). With attacks, especially personal attacks, he is much more coherent and sounds a lot sharper

-Threw out a bunch of stuff on Biden's son to turn around two huge attacks against Trump back onto Biden: Russia and family dealings

 

The presidential stuff really doesn't matter to Trump world. At this point, it's just a straight trade-off between base turnout and suburban vote bleed. 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 7:32am

Interesting point.

Although I don't know if Trump did the Covid thing well.

At one moment, Trump said Biden would not have shut down the economy and how him "doing it early" saved lives. 10 minutes later, Trump went on to say how Biden would have shut down the economy for so long that the economy would've been very bad.. Hoped that Biden would catch on to that and call him out on his contradiction.

 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:50am

I was not enthusiastic about voting for Biden until last night.  The contrast between the two of them is striking.  Biden acted the way a POTUS should act while Trump acted like a toddler.  It was very difficult to watch and I am not looking forward to the next debates.  I think that some minds were changed last night.  For Trump, any hope of getting the suburban mom to vote for him was lost last night.  Trump already has an issue among females and last night made it worse.  

http://www.series65examtutor.com
 
Sep 29, 2020 - 11:39pm

Why has no one on this thread mentioned the integrity of the election (at least that I saw)? Feel like more than anything, promoting democratic norms and peaceful transfer of power is the most important issue. If you lose that, any policy nuance becomes irrelevant. Policies can be overturned in 2-4 years with a new congress and president if they turn out to be ineffective.  Our democracy, however, is fragile and can devolve. Let's hope it doesn't. 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 1:27am

I don't think the debates will change anyone's mind. Biden was OK (not great, but not as bad as I thought he'd be, but the 2 big takeaways for me are 1) how riled up Trump got (to the point where the moderator had to scold him multiple times) and 2) how he didn't throw down the alley pop by simply saying he condemns white supremacists. The man knows saying that would alienate a chunk of his supporters, but holy hell I can't believe a US President would implicitly endorse white supremacism on national TV (that flubbed question and the Proud Boys comment). The talk at the end about electoral integrity was pretty scary - if seems like he'll do anything to hold onto power at this point. 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 7:44am

So wait, are you guys advocating for Joe Rogan to moderate a debate as interviewer Joe Rogan or as MMA Joe Rogan? I think the second debate format would generate ratings as high as the world cup in soccer or the Super Bowl.

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 8:17am

MaxEpic

Alright boys and girls, first debate tonight at 9pm eastern time. I think it's going to be good, I wanna see how both guys go head to head and how they defend their positions now that their both face to face and can't be behind a screen. I think Trump will 'win' based on his bombastic nature even if Biden makes good points. 
Also looking forward to more memorable debate moments for this election cycle. We had the classic, "only Rosie O'Donnell..." in 2016 and "You'd be in jail" was a great one too. 

I should add, I hope for this thread to be more of a discussion of the candidates polices,what they say in the debate, what we think of them and what we'd like to see done in the next 4 years. I know we have some strong opinions about POTUS and Biden but let's try to stay civil, there is enough anger out there.

Bump

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:15am

1. That entire debate was an embarrassment to the country. Thoroughly unprofessional and un-presidential. 

2. Trump may have given his dumbest performance yet. You think that helps him with suburban women? You think going after someone's kids is what the American president should be doing? You think telling far right militia groups to "stand by" and then advocating voter intimidation at the polls is going to win him the election? Nah. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:32am

He's already given up on suburban women tbh, not even his supreme court pick can save that. Now it's all about rural white turnout.

Voter intimidation is a core part of his strategy - when states are won by margins in the thousands, poll watchers and voter suppression become critical to ensuring low voter turnout in key swing states, especially in areas with a high percentage of blacks and hispanics. 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:16am

Joe Biden is a blithering old fool in a clear state of mental decline. He's an inauthentic panderer, as his entire professional life has been spent in politics, by definition a career of pandering to the largest cohort that can get him elected / re-elected. I fear for the sanctity of independent and critical thinking if a majority of voters view Biden as a viable presidential candidate. 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:50am

It is interesting you equate voting for Biden as showing a lack of critical thinking. I am not sure why it would surprise you that many people would vote for more or less anyone that isn't actively sowing doubt about our democratic processes, refusing to denounce white supremacist and nationalist groups, is loathed by our own intelligence communities (I don't know how a flag gets any larger or redder than this), and surrounds themselves with felons (when has this ever been normal?).

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:50am

The talking points you cited are very tired at this point, disingenuous and quite frankly lazy. Our democratic processes are firmly intact and will continue to be as long as we are a democratic republic, regardless of the sitting president, barring a second civil war. Separately, both sides of the political isle are often associated with fringe extremist groups which do not represent either of the parties or candidates. 

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:50am

iggs99988

Joe Biden is a blithering old fool in a clear state of mental decline. He's an inauthentic panderer, as his entire professional life has been spent in politics, by definition a career of pandering to the largest cohort that can get him elected / re-elected. I fear for the sanctity of independent and critical thinking if a majority of voters view Biden as a viable presidential candidate. 

I don't understand why Trump can walk around like a two year old with a poopy diaper throwing around insults, but as soon as an adult punches back, he's a "blithering old fool". In 2016, you Trumpers ate his BS up, but then act like he owns a monopoly on old men throwing temper tantrums. People wanted to see Biden unable to stand for 1.5 hours and pass out. Well, he didn't, and he went blow for blow, even had Trump in a rope a dope, so desperate to sound strong he was scared to let Biden speak. Trump should be in jail for his taxes, and every gun-toting, deranged white supremacist supporter should be thrown in after.

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:50am

Biden was pale as a ghost yesterday and appeared visibly senile to anyone watching without bias. He awkwardly bungled his sentences by repeatedly stammering mid-sentence, confused medicaid and medicare, was frequently unintelligible or otherwise hard to follow, and was generally very uninspired. I'm sorry for you if you think that the voting American public, the adults -- not the anti-culture, woke Tweeters -- are so stupid as to be conned by popular media narratives of the moment into voting for Joe Biden. Why do you give voting Americans such little credit; do you really think they're that dumb to not recognize a lemon when it's presented to them?

 
Sep 30, 2020 - 9:50am

I have never seen a debate with such a clear winner.  Biden talked about issues when asked about them and showed restraint when it was not his turn.  Trump randomly talked about issues, sometimes relevant and sometimes not.  Trump's random comments about Biden's education and his son's drug issue were difficult to watch.  Someone has to tell Trump that Hunter Biden is not running for POTUS.  Trump is not running against Biden's family.  It would have been totally appropriate for Biden to talk about Trump's family members because they are part of the administration .   Trump interrupted every 5 seconds and when he was not interrupting, he was pouting.   

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