11/20/06

Did anyone here start From Operations (back Office) to front office?

What are the chances of this happening, or once you in Ops, you are locked in. Which divisions do you have a better chance to move to from operations. Any bankers or traders here who began in Operations?

Comments (127)

11/20/06

You would have to jump as soon as possible. The longer you stay in Ops the less likely you'll land a job in the front office.

Some traders do come from Ops background from my work experience at a BB bank, though certainly not a big percentage.

Investment Banking Interview Course

11/20/06

Is a 'trading assistant' position a step-up from a trade support position (back office,operations)?

11/20/06

from operations to IB it is very hard to make the move. Almost every single person I spoke to, said to not even bother with operations.

To <abbr title="investment banking

">IB guys you are nothing more than a paper pusher and its very hard to get rid of that label.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/20/06
aspiringmonkey:

from operations to IB it is very hard to make the move. Almost every single person I spoke to, said to not even bother with operations.

To <abbr title="investment banking

">IB guys you are nothing more than a paper pusher and its very hard to get rid of that label.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

At least they are pushing paper, and real paper unlike your office shit job.

11/20/06
buysiderules:

At least they are pushing paper, and real paper unlike your office shit job.

did someone sign an offer for operations hoping to get into IB

I didn't say I feel that way about operations, but thats what the IB guys feel like.

Oh and did you just compare my part time job during college to a full time job one gets upon graduation?

your mom should have swallowed

11/20/06
aspiringmonkey:

your mom should have swallowed

I think you've used that one before. Hope this helps.

11/21/06
zala rules:
aspiringmonkey:

your mom should have swallowed

I think you've used that one before. Hope this helps.

its a good saying

12/6/06

it is fuckin funny indeed

12/6/06

In the past people used to be able to move from back to front office, but much much rarer now, more than likely stuck in the backoffice

1/10/07

Jumps from the back office to front office are getting more and more rare.. one's best shot is to be a whiz kid and hope that you get a respected boss or even MD who will voice up for you. I worked at a bank in ops and out of 5 interns only 1 was allowed to move on with interviews with other more lucrative sides of the bank.

It is obvious but worth mentioning when taking a ops job in hopes of switching to the front office realize that ur best bet is with the group you are supporting, so if you support PWM your best hope is to impress the people you support there, etc .

Lastly I agree that the trend is moving further and further in the direction of where front office banking doesn't even really recognize (nor respect for that matter) the back office as a contributing part of the bank. When I interned at a bb firm in ops the firm had actually been outsourcing much of the work we did and also flirted with the idea of selling the entire division and paying for the services.

12/8/06

It is indeed very rare. I actually had a friend this summer who went from back office to front office in Goldman of all places. She said the way she did it was through her sorority connections who then referred her to the Goldman women association network and after having had lunch and remaining in touch with like 5 different people (all VPs, Dir, or MDs) they finally put her in a front office position. Im sure it takes A LOTTA networking and a lotta luck and im sure it helped that she was good looking too...

1/10/07

what is back office....

1/10/07

Back Office refers to IB Operations.

(Trade Settlements/ Confirmations/ Customer Service related/ etc.)

  • I will search for a related query.

Thanks.

Give it a try...

1/10/07

There was a thread on this topic. Search for it.

1/10/07

Non-related to IB:

Is an FMP role considered a front office position?

1/10/07

It's possible, but it really depends what bank you're talking about. At BB's it's very difficult, from what I hear. Middle market/boutiques make it easier, but heavy networking is required and you have to impress the right FO people, remind them you're there, without becoming a thorn in their side. You then have to impress your ops managers and let them know you really want to get into a revenue-generating position, but you have to let them know that without shitting on ops. It's an interesting line to walk, but it is definitely possible. Take it from someone who did it.

Just make sure you don't get pegged. Gotta your moves quickly...

Step 1: Dream the Dream || Step 2: Live the Dream || Step 3: Rinse, repeat.

12/10/06

...and have posted about it before so i am not going to repeat. Bottom line: it is a 100-1 shot at BB firms but is fairly common at smaller firms. U will need to be the absolute best at every job you do and get very lucky.

1/10/07

to my knowledge, this has never happened in the history of finance... ever....

just kidding, do a search on the topic. been discussed on plenty of forums. the bottom line youll come across is "tough, network you @$$ off"

1/10/07

Its actually been a while since I have seen this question pop up. In S&T it happens more frequently than other places. I would still not count on it. Everyone says they will network endlessly and do whatever, but the plain fact is once you start doing a job you get sucked into doing the job and everything falls to the side.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

12/11/06

how can there be anything lower than a banking analyst? it boggles my mind, why can't ops move to being an analyst? i still don't get it

1/10/07

Any idea what the Ops position would be? If you find yourself in something like trade support/trader's assistant, and really bust your ass, you have a shot

"Major in economics; use your economics degree to get an analyst job on Wall Street; use your analyst job to get into Harvard or Stanford Business School; and worry about the rest of your life later"

1/10/07
teddy brosevelt:

If you find yourself in something like trade support/trader's assistant, and really bust your ass, you have a shot

Nothing at that point, duh.

1/10/07

The Ops position would be with the iBank. Not really to sure about the specifics regarding day to day duties.

1/10/07

Let's say I work in Ops at GS for a year or two. What are my chances of moving into an analytical position, if any?

1/10/07

Do a search. Moving from MO --> FO is difficult, moving from BO --> FO is even more difficult.

1/10/07

Very tough and very slim, unless you network, get lucky, and theres an opening on a team / desk
(general view on this forum)

1/10/07

Thanks for the feed back guys.

1/10/07

you could do two years ops and go for your mba and then try to find a fo position

1/10/07

i had a friend who did ops at GS for an internship and then worked at interactive brokers and arrow electronics in the treasury there and now hes at GS AM but f course that is a special case in a way and not direct from BO

i agree with nikhiln a bit

1/10/07

i did it.. search as i have a post on it

1/10/07

I did it too, just make sure you are taking a ops job that has some sort of transferable skill.

1/10/07

Don't get discouraged by people on here - plenty of people have moved from BO--> FO. If you can get into GS in any role, if you work hard and reach out, you have a much better shot in getting a FO position than someone outside of the bank, say from a non target or no relevant work experience. Also, once you have GS on your resume, it will also be possible to move to say MM IBD / boutique / lower tier BB. Take the gig and leverage being an insider @ GS - there are much more terrible places to be.

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"

1/10/07
JimmyDormandy:

Don't get discouraged by people on here - plenty of people have moved from BO--> FO. If you can get into GS in any role, if you work hard and reach out, you have a much better shot in getting a FO position than someone outside of the bank, say from a non target or no relevant work experience. Also, once you have GS on your resume, it will also be possible to move to say MM IBD / boutique / lower tier BB. Take the gig and leverage being an insider @ GS - there are much more terrible places to be.

also much better places to be

1/10/07
monty09:
JimmyDormandy:

Don't get discouraged by people on here - plenty of people have moved from BO--> FO. If you can get into GS in any role, if you work hard and reach out, you have a much better shot in getting a FO position than someone outside of the bank, say from a non target or no relevant work experience. Also, once you have GS on your resume, it will also be possible to move to say MM IBD / boutique / lower tier BB. Take the gig and leverage being an insider @ GS - there are much more terrible places to be.

also much better places to be

Correct

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"

1/10/07
JimmyDormandy:
monty09:
JimmyDormandy:

Don't get discouraged by people on here - plenty of people have moved from BO--> FO. If you can get into GS in any role, if you work hard and reach out, you have a much better shot in getting a FO position than someone outside of the bank, say from a non target or no relevant work experience. Also, once you have GS on your resume, it will also be possible to move to say MM IBD / boutique / lower tier BB. Take the gig and leverage being an insider @ GS - there are much more terrible places to be.

also much better places to be

Correct

just giving you crap.... i agree with your post

1/10/07

Also there are other ways besides the MBA...you can get CFA, caia, frm and all that crap to make your self a better candidate

1/10/07

BO... ITS A TRAP

Best Response
1/10/07

if i get 20 bananas I will post my story

Investment Banking Interview Course

12/11/06

There are mainly three different functions in an ibank. I will not explain what they do but they can generally be classified as front office (FO), middle office and back office (BO). All entry level positions in the bank called "analyst" but the career paths are different.

What most people are shooting for here is an analyst position in the FO i.e. banking analyst. As mentioned, you could start as an analyst in operations and move up the ladder all the way to MD even. You'll get a decent salary but the work, prestige and salary are not equivalent to their FO counterparts. Hence, why most people say that ops is lower than banking analyst is because once someone starts in ops, it is totally different career track altogether and the chances of moving over and working in the FO is very slim.

You get it sometimes when people say that they work at some brand name firm to try to impress the chicks, but later find out they are only in operations.

1/10/07

Very difficult. Especially as a FT. Best would be to FT at a MM or boutique

Banking.

1/10/07

It's been done many times from what I have seen. I know that plenty of BAs at BBs and non-BBs have moved into the Analyst role after 1-2 years of solid performance.

1/10/07
ivoteforthatguy:

It's been done many times from what I have seen. I know that plenty of BAs at BBs and non-BBs have moved into the Analyst role after 1-2 years of solid performance.

PM'd you

Get busy living

1/10/07

it's not entirely impossible, but it's pretty close...

as MrV said above, you're 100x better off with any MM or boutique experience, or even an accounting type of role

1/10/07

much easier to do as a summer intern lol

1/10/07
ambition56:

much easier to do as a summer intern lol

And if you're 4 years removed from undergrad and can't get an interview for a SA?

1/10/07

Knew a trader at the BB i interned at who moved from BO to FO. It's definitely possible with some hard work.

1/10/07

met so many people in my two summers that have moved from BO to FO... if you're ambitious and do you job well and you network...

1/10/07

i should add as a corollary to my post above: it seems that this is not quite as difficult to do for s&t, based on other threads i've read on wso.

for ibd, though, i can tell you from personal experience that it's far from an ideal path to take. i've been flat out told by recruiters that they'd be happy to interview me if my experience were more relevant to ib, rather than the mo finance that it is (which is closer than ops probably, too)

12/12/06

i would imagine there are several reason why you can't move to the front office. for starters the analyst position isn't a job like most other companies where you can just stay there and keep moving up if you so choose. its a 2 year program and when its done your done with the company. the recruiting process is very well defined and every year they have a new crop of kids coming in to replace the ones that left, thus they don't really have a need for kids outside the structured process. additionally, they know that you probably didn't make the cut while you were in school, so why should they take you now as opposed to someone else that matches their profile. i'm sure they are well aware of the many people that try to back door their way into the front office and because of that shy away from it. another thing is that the skills you develop in the back office have nothing to do with the skills you develop/use in the front office does, hence although you have been working for the same company you will still be raw and need to be trained just like anyone else, leaving you no more desirable. also assuming you kick ass in the back office why would any of your bosses want to help you to get to the front office; one they would be losing one of the best work horses and two they probably have a chip on the shoulder about the front office and feelA A insulted that you want to leave.

these are just some of the many reasons why its almost impossible to make this switch. that being said if a back office job is all you can get, by all means take it. at the end of a day your a college kid trying to get a job, so take what you can get and i'm sure you will not regret your decision. you will still make good money, work at a good company, learn some shit and have a much more enjoyable lifestyle.

1/10/07

work on your engrish

1/10/07
TropicalFruit:

work on your engrish

LULZ. second that

More is good, all is better

1/10/07

You got a bachelors in business with a 3.2 GPA at a shitty school. You have no chance in hell of getting into a MFE or neither a respectable MSF program. You spent 4 years in BO.

Sorry friend but you're going to be stuck in BO the rest of your life. What's your compensation like?

1/10/07
chubbybunny:

You got a bachelors in business with a 3.2 GPA at a shitty school. You have no chance in hell of getting into a MFE or neither a respectable MSF program. You spent 4 years in BO.

Sorry friend but you're going to be stuck in BO the rest of your life. What's your compensation like?

You are a total tool. You shit on everybody asking for help. Just shut up already.

1/10/07

damn...thanks for destroying my dream..my compensation? not good....

1/10/07
Kenktwang123:

damn...thanks for destroying my dream..my compensation? not good....

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/new-to-finance

Read the above post and keep your chin up. If I can make it, I'm convinced that ANYONE can: it just takes time, effort, and the ability to think outside the box. Bschool sounds like your best bet.

Any system can be exploited.

Get busy living

1/10/07

Seems like you will have to do a lot of work to get there but anything is possible.

First, reach out to as many people in FO positions as possible. It could be your friends, friends of friends of friends, past classmates or alumni. Believe me they exist, but you need to really search and come up with good reasons for them to meet with you.

Second, if you in BO, you need to have at least a CFA to show that you know the financial field well, but since you need to move i would try for an MBA in TOP school because it can open doors to FO recruiting.

Lastly, I don't know your situation, but don't just sit around and work. Study, network and prepare your application for business school. You'll need to get into a respected school for it to pay off.

It's easier said than done, but good luck.

Do what you want not what you can!

1/10/07

The easiest (and, probably, best) way to move to FO is through b-school. If I were you I'd hold off for a couple years and try and get something good on your resume. In a BO role I can't imagine you working more than 50 hours per week, that leaves you a LOT of free time to start a business, start a non-profit, or whatever. In addition you should think about getting CFA designation, it'll show interest in finance and your ability to perform.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

1/10/07

hey Thanks alot for the advise guys!!! i really appreciate it, i wasn't sure before but now i'am pretty much very sure what i should do now!! it's a great feeling, Lol. Anyways, thanks!

1/10/07

gotta get into an MBA program with good recruiting, thats about the only way I can think of. CFA and what not will help. Also work on your English.

1/10/07

Advice is spelled with a C, not an S. First time gave you the benefit of the doubt that it was a typo, but you clearly have no idea how to spell.

1/10/07
Dubsfan7:

Advice is spelled with a C, not an S. First time gave you the benefit of the doubt that it was a typo, but you clearly have no idea how to spell.

British spellings use '-ise' for the verb form and '-ice' for the noun form of a word i.e. advise/advice. The OP is probably a foreigner living in a UK/former colony or was taught Anglicized-English.

1/10/07
Solidarity:
Dubsfan7:

Advice is spelled with a C, not an S. First time gave you the benefit of the doubt that it was a typo, but you clearly have no idea how to spell.

British spellings use '-ise' for the verb form and '-ice' for the noun form of a word i.e. advise/advice. The OP is probably a foreigner living in a UK/former colony or was taught Anglicized-English.

sigh

In America we also use "ise" when you use it in verb form, e.g. I advise you to do reread his sentences. He was using it as a noun form, hence he should have said "need advice" and "thanks for the advice" not "need advise" and "thanks for the advise".

1/10/07

Good luck man. Don't let the hater hold you down!

1/10/07

Give him a break. Its obviously not a first language for him and most of you probably are not fluent in other languages yourselves.

1/10/07

I don't give a fuck about his grammar usage on a forum.

The guy's grammar is off because he "is probably a foreigner living in a UK/former colony or was taught Anglicized-English."

Americans do not use the same distinction, i.e. licence vs. license, practise vs. practice, etc... while this may apply to the common usage of advise/advice this is not a general rule of thumb.

1/10/07

Solidarity, just stop while you are not as far behind as you could have been.

More is good, all is better

1/10/07
Argonaut:

Solidarity, just stop while you are not as far behind as you could have been.

Why do you have to resort to degrading another user's grammar, especially when English is obviously not his first language?

Just doesn't make sense.

1/10/07

Hey Ken, I sent you a PM. can you share your experience in ops with me please

1/10/07
financialnewbie:

Hey Ken, I sent you a PM. can you share your experience in ops with me please

hi there, i replied you~ hope you think twice before you take action!

1/10/07

you guys are right!! i'am from Hong Kong... a small asian city.Lol
sorry for my english....i have tried my best, but still you guys can tell the different.hehehe
anyway, i really appreciate all the comments and replies.
damn! i wish Hong Kong had a forum like WSO!! Lol

1/10/07

I work on the 13th floor. Most buildings don't even have one. This is my life.

Most buildings may not have 13th floor, but they better have the 13th floor elevators!

Gawd, I am so corny

More is good, all is better

1/10/07
Argonaut:

I work on the 13th floor. Most buildings don't even have one. This is my life.

Most buildings may not have 13th floor, but they better have the 13th floor elevators!
Gawd, I am so corny

Nope, I park my flying suacer outside my window and climb in. When the weather sucks I use the teleporter.

Ok, I think I should change my screen name, I'm having too much fun and heading towards the nerd zone, if I'm not there already.

Seriously though, even people at other locations within our firm think I'm trying to be funny when I tell them to send stuff to the 13th floor. Many other buildings skip thirteen and just call it a 'lobby'. The floor is symbolic of the unusual state of my life, and so I celebrate this period or strangeness.

TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER, or the bar, whichever you prefer.

Get busy living

1/10/07

"13th floor elevators" is one of the earliest psychedelic bands. XD

More is good, all is better

1/10/07

I would look into getting the CFA, if you can. That always looks good on your CV and shows dedication. I would also try to network with someone in the FO. Start asking them questions about what their job is like and what advice they can give. It's always good to approach people who are senior to you (both in age and position) and try and make them a mentor. Many times you'll find people enjoy doing this and will give you great advice.

On a side note, I would ignore a lot of the insults you hear on this forum. The majority of them are idiots who feel that by acting like e-thugs they can boost their egos and feel better about their shitty real lives.

1/10/07

^ Thumbs up to last advice!!!

Do what you want not what you can!

12/12/06

"additionally, they know that you probably didn't make the cut while you were in school, so why should they take you now as opposed to someone else that matches their profile."

lol. to get FO you bascailly need to go to a top 20 school and be above the median and have good interviewing skills. Most of the BO people were top 10% at their college at a big state school. Its crazy to say these people didnt make the cut in school.

1/8/07
sleepyguyb:

"additionally, they know that you probably didn't make the cut while you were in school, so why should they take you now as opposed to someone else that matches their profile."

lol. to get FO you bascailly need to go to a top 20 school and be above the median and have good interviewing skills. Most of the BO people were top 10% at their college at a big state school. Its crazy to say these people didnt make the cut in school.

it is not about making the cut. when GS came to ur school, they were specifically recruiting for certain divisions. most people applied with a future intention of moving from the divisions to other better divisions, just like having your foot in the door kinda thing.

1/10/07

It might be a very critical decision in your life.

Do you have the balls or not?
Do you like to play safe and accept something you arent much interested into?

Its your choice, at least you have one.
However, once you say no to the FO at that bank, you should start looking for another bank FO - I dont think that you will have much chance there, I mean, you obviously made up your mind.

1/10/07

I would keep this BO offer and apply for FO positions at other firms. Is that an option?

1/10/07

Thank you both for your replies. Black Jack, yeah it is an option but so far haven't heard anything back from the other few banks that I have. I believe my complete application for this BB was also the strongest and losing this would be a big blow, as I also don't have many others left.

Just to also mention, I have an AC at a good position in another bank in early December. I prefer this to the BO position but not to the FO. If I was accepted by this in early december after the AC, would it be possible for me to ask the FO team at the BB to reconsider my past application (is it not too late)?

1/10/07

Keep your BO position. Even though FO is what you want, this is a good backup so somehow, if you don't get any other offers, you'll still have something finance-y for the summer.

Apply to other FO positions at different banks. Even if you did move forward with the FO interview process at this bank, word gets around, and they might think you're a little strange or untrustworthy for reneging on your BO offer at the very same bank.

Remember, once you're inside you're on your own.
Oh, you mean I can't count on you?
No.
Good!

1/10/07

dream dream dream all I ever do is dream

1/10/07

spaceagecowboy:
dream dream dream all I ever do is dream

Clever kid.

We all dream, but what are you willing to do to make it happen?

1/10/07

I currently work on the trading floor, and I would suggest seeking one of the traders for their advice. You'll only get a spot on the desk if there is an open spot. Since you are coming from back office, I would suggest doing something in risk analysis in middle office. There have been two traders on my floor that have transitioned from middle office doing risk analysis and into their current roles. Show the hunger, and the desire to have client interaction. PM if you want more details. Hope this helps, and good luck!

1/10/07

MY NAME IS NERO AND I AM FROM CANADA, I WAS HAVING NO MONEY AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR , BUT NOW I AM A MILLIONAIRE DO YOU KNOW HOW IT HAPPENED ? I MET PROPHET IKPEFUA ( A SPELL CASTER) ON THE INTERNET WHO CAST MONEY SPELL FOR ME AND NOW I AM RICH , I THANK PROPHET IKPEFUA BECAUSE HE IS THE BEST , YOU CAN REPLY ME AND I WILL GIVE YOU PROPHET IKPEFUA'S DIRECT CONTACT

1/10/07

Meet and network with as many S&T guys as you can. Get to know them, tell them your story, and let them know what you want.

1/10/07

So you are still in school?...... then this thread makes no sense. you don't work in back office, interning there is very different then being stuck there as a fulltime employee

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

1/10/07

yeahright:
So you are still in school?...... then this thread makes no sense. you don't work in back office, interning there is very different then being stuck there as a fulltime employee

This.

1/10/07

thanks guys, that's what I want to hear lol

1/10/07

what?

1/10/07

Hey guys -- I'm 13 years old and delivering newspapers for a living. Any chance I have time to switch to front office by the time I graduate from college or am I stuck delivering newspapers for the rest of my life?

1/10/07

Riiiiiight

So were comparing juniors in University to preteens now.

Anyways, the reason I asked was because I came across a comment in an old thread where somebody mentioned a back office summer analyst (Jr.) likely being looked at badly if it came to grad recruitment. Figured I'd inquire too

1/10/07

Nudie:
Riiiiiight

So were comparing juniors in University to preteens now.

Anyways, the reason I asked was because I came across a comment in an old thread where somebody mentioned a back office summer analyst (Jr.) likely being looked at badly if it came to grad recruitment. Figured I'd inquire too


It seems ridiculous that a 13 year old's future would be determined by his current job, right? From my perspective, it seems just about as ridiculous that a junior in college thinks that way.
1/10/07

seen

1/10/07

Nudie:
Riiiiiight

So were comparing juniors in University to preteens now.

Anyways, the reason I asked was because I came across a comment in an old thread where somebody mentioned a back office summer analyst (Jr.) likely being looked at badly if it came to grad recruitment. Figured I'd inquire too

The preteen would likely have a better chance at getting into FO than you.

1/10/07

word?

1/10/07

SirTradesaLot:
Hey guys -- I'm 13 years old and delivering newspapers for a living. Any chance I have time to switch to front office by the time I graduate from college or am I stuck delivering newspapers for the rest of my life?

No chance, sorry sister. Actually, do u mind if I point out u r in fact 17?

The Auto Show

1/10/07

Nudie:
So I didnt land the job at the BB but nonetheless the Director said my interview went well, I presented myself well, thought through the technical questions well but it was just very competitive and htheres nothing specific i did badly. I pushed for some sort of a concrete reason for getting dinged though and he said one thing he noticed was students from my school werent as comprehensive with their DCF valuation question in comparison to targets i suppose.

[...]

1. I know its competitive but if an interviewer says comments like his for feedback, how serious should I take em. Is it a, "they're just not into you situation..." where theyre letting you down nicely or a matter of continuing to improve upon oneself and do better next time? For instance I feel like I might need to work on the "hook" as they say although i thought It was in.

I think you may have just been unexceptional. Consider an academic test, where if everyone gets each answer correct, everyone gets an A. In such a case, the "correct answer" is not exceptional. Now, a professor isn't necessarily trying to identify excellence - he's trying to teach the class something. So, if everyone learns it and proves that, fine - they all succeed.

Interviews (at least in a recruiting context) are inherently different. By definition, not everyone can be successful. Thus, mastering the "material" is not enough.

You might understand this stuff as the "fit" component of an interview. This is what you get for relying on a book. "Fit," as you might understand it, is a gross mischaracterization. In reality, the whole interview is fit. The "technical" portions gauge your ability to do the work, and ore importantly your commitment to the job as demonstrated by having learned the "technical." In reality, both are components of your overall "fit."

Ultimately, a successful applicant has to stand out. People lose sight of this in the pursuit of the "correct answer," especially on this board. But ultimately, you have to transcend "correct" and be unique in some respect. And this necessarily implies that (a) your method of successful interviewing will not resemble most others', and (b) you can't find the answer here. This is where having a mentor, with depth of professional experience and a developed eye for this sort of thing, is profoundly helpful.

Nudie:

Like Jay-Z said, moral victories are for minor league coaches.

Moral victories are worth what you make of them. And you can certainly benefit from them if you take the right lessons. You may have some growing up to do, but that's fine, you will.

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."

1/10/07

that's kinda what I figured. it all went well, but i didnt do what it took to stand out whether fit wise or with answers.

thanks.

1/10/07

jesus, this thread actually makes no sense. I am just plain confused.

1/10/07

packmate:
jesus, this thread actually makes no sense. I am just plain confused.

that says more about your reading skills. I mean it isn't the most eloquent thing, but it's still straightforward.
1/10/07

People like SirTradesaLot are the reason I still read WSO.

Talent is hitting a target no one can hit.
Genius is hitting a target no one can see.

1/10/07

Determined:
People like SirTradesaLot are the reason I still read WSO.

Aww, shucks.

Thanks.

1/10/07

Go for what you want and don't look back.

I'd continue to apply elsewhere as well. Get your resume ready.

1/10/07

ManyHenny:

Go for what you want and don't look back.

I'd continue to apply elsewhere as well. Get your resume ready.

Yeah I agree. I mean a few people have told me that everyone in BO wants to go to FO and when they get there, the only thing they want is to go back to BO. I don't think that'll happen to me if I manage to make the transition.

I really think I could thrive in the high-intensity, high octane atmosphere of IB front office.

Will definitely get my resume ready and include my current position.

1/10/07

Start networking with the ECM group is possible. Say that you are an intern and just started, and you're interested in learning more about what they do. Have lunch, coffee, whatever will give you facetime with them. When it comes to interviewing for that internship it should give you a leg up.

1/10/07

electriclighto:

Start networking with the ECM group is possible. Say that you are an intern and just started, and you're interested in learning more about what they do. Have lunch, coffee, whatever will give you facetime with them. When it comes to interviewing for that internship it should give you a leg up.

I know everyone says this on this website but is that really how it's done? I've talked with many interns - almost all of them had BO/MO positions and nobody said they did this.

This might sound stupid but why would an ECM guy who already works tons of hours have the time and will to sit down and have a coffee with a BO intern?

Couldn't I start by contacting someone from ECM and tell him that I'm interested in the ECM business and if he could share with me with some documents about the industry, the job in itself, the current state of the business,...I think that's a good idea.

I'm relatively new to all this so I'm still trying to figure all this out

1/10/07

Any other tips?

1/10/07

Bump (cause I am in a similar situation and have a interview with the same bank in the same location you're at, next week and I was hoping to ask you some questions but I don't have enough bananas to PM you)

1/10/07

I know it seems daunting at first, but reaching out to people (cold emails, cold calling) is important in a BO/MO situation. The worst they can do is ignore you or say no. That's it. Nothing more to it. So don't fret, get out there and ask. Most people are just happy to talk about themselves for a half hour.

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