FX Salesperson vs. Equity Sales-Trader
I know exactly what an equity (cash) sales-trader does, but I am quite interested in FX (spot and options) sales.
I hear rumors that FX sales quite quite different from sales in other desks.
Could you guys shed me some light on how an FX salesperson's role may be different from an equity (cash) sales-trader or bond sales?
Thanks a lot!
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soo, what does a cash sales trader do then?
Sales trading and sales are completely different. Sales trading is agency trading - a sales trader enters the market to execute a client order and takes absolutely no flow position. They do not really manage risk like a true trader. They cannot express their opinion of market moves with prop positions.
FX sales is exactly like any other FICC sales role
the question was actually directed at OP. but you did a good job explaining the essentials. however, i would like to add a few points.
a sales trader communicates with the buyside traders/ pms and discusses how the trade should be executed. he also gives the client updates and is generally just closer to the market than the ordinary salesmen but also pitches trade ideas. so you could say that they act as babysitters to execution traders and tell them how to trade the stock + to some extent they also act as salesmen. the aim is obviously to sell/buy at the best price possible - beat the vwap (volume weighted average price)
these are common phrases you hear on the trading floor: 100k 55 big figure top, 30% over the day, consolidated 50k 110,75 low, ice berg 1000 until were done
its a pretty cool job, with limited risks and a great way to gain understanding of the markets. you get to meet all the traders and pms which makes it a lot easier to network and get a job on the buyside. you may not be able to get a job as a quasi prop trader at a hedge fund but you'll have a great shot at landing a trading job at one of the bigger asset managers.
dont forget that these guys can monitor their "prop performance" by entering trade ideas into systems like two sigma... this is becoming increasingly important platform and is even used by fund managers like marshall wace to find the best sales talent out there (maybe this little guy in arkansas can do a better job than the yuppie down at morgan stanley). there are even hedge fund strategies built on these sort of systems.
My comment was directed at the OP - I hadn't read any of the comments when I posted. He seems to risk categorizing two very different roles together. I do commend you on your attempt to get him to demonstrate his research - I wish I hadn't commented, so that we can see what he actually knows.
'sales' (note theres no salestrading in FI) in Fixed Income is closely related to a salestrading role in equity cash or derivatives.
research sales, or just 'sales' (equities division only) is a whole 'nother animal.
i am not in FX and have not heard why FX sales is different from the other sales/salestrading roles in FI or equities.
Thanks guys!! Especially nauprillion and gammaovertheta. No worries. Like I said, I know exactly what equity sales-trading is. but from your conversations, it seems like even bond sales is quite different from equity sales-trading.
All I know about the role of bond sales is that it is a sales job hybrid of both equity sales (research) and sales-trading. I know that bond sales involves more client entertainment than sales-trading but not as much as research sales.
It'd be really great if you guys could further enlighten me on what it entails to be working in bond sales (or fx sales). Thanks!!
equity sales trading is extremely client centric and involves at least as much client entertainment as any other sales role. heck, i'd even argue that they spend more time with clients than research sales. however, this largely depends on the culture of your bank since many have become very strict with client entertainment budgets and require extensive documentation and justification.
since I'm not active in the FICC space at all, I'm not in the position to elaborate on either of them.
I've only skimmed this topic, but at my bank (non-US based):
Equity sales: pitch research ideas to portfolio managers Sales trader: receive orders from the respective fund's dealers and work them in the market. Also pitch the research to the dealers who may or may not have their own discretionary account at the fund. Some senior ST's pitch directly to PM's though.
FX sales is split two ways - Corporate FX: Spot/Forward/Option/Structured product hedging solutions for corporate clients. Institutional FX: As above in addition to pitching out right trading ideas to hedge funds, other bank's trading/prop desks etc. Typically of larger size and complexity than corporate FX.
FX Sales: Comparisons to sales in other desks? (Originally Posted: 04/17/2012)
Hello everyone! I want to break into Sales and Trading!
I've searched all over this forum to find anything related to FX Sales, but I wasn't able to gain much information on what it is that makes it so different from sales roles in other desks.
Could you guys please explain to me what the major differences are?
One of the comments of the topics I found on FX sales said that FX Sales is very different from what other sales roles are. He said something like constantly informing clients the market information instead of actual selling. I didn't quite catch what it really meant, though.
Do FX salespeople have very similar role to equities sales-traders and fixed income salespeople? or do FX salespeople more similar to equities research salespeople? or do FX salespeople have a completely different roles in addition to whatever other salespeople do?
Thank you so much guys!
one more quick question:
How does FX sales and Equity Derivatives Sales compare to the Fixed Income sales in terms of compensation and profit/bonus potential?
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Please help!
Please?
the search function is an elusive beast
Bump
There's nothing much different, except it's a more thankless job, as bid/offer is very tight etc...
The job description for FX sales varies widely depending on the financial institution and end-user. Are you referring to a bank like Citi or a bank like SunTrust? Are you selling to corporate customers, institutional investors or hedge funds?
I can shed light on the industry and answer any questions.
essentially the spreads are very tight, very competitive industry. you go around pitching ideas/throwing suggestions but the buy side guys dont necessarily have to purchase from you. they rip off your ideas and go for the firm with the best spreads. true story.
Equity sales-trading handle the flow - they relay order requests from clients to the traders and then relay the traders given prices back to their clients. Equity research sales is more of a broker role, trying to broker ideas generated by the in house research team which in turn creates flow for the trading desks.
Now to compare FX sales to the two roles described above....
Firstly it depends on which type of FX sales desk you are on. At my firm it is split as such; FX Corporate sales (deals with large corporates, mostly hedging their FX exposure) , FX investor sales (deals with real money and hedge funds, more directional & speculative trades) and FX banks (deals with banks who mostly use FX for hedging and to roll their swaps to ensure capital requirements are met, spreads are very tight due to strong competition).
Each FX desk has a different role. They will all relay prices to given by their traders to their clients but some are much more advisory than others. In FX corporate sales, you are dealing with people who are not FX experts, therefore your views on where the market is going are considered to be very valuable and you serve as an advisor as to what hedges need to be made etc. In FX investor sales you are dealing with very experienced investors who likely know more than the FX salesman , the salesmen in FX investor sales give less trade ideas and advise. They are used to relay prices given to trader back to client and their most important value add is to give clients market colour in terms of flows. This is the only way HF and real money fund get to know positioning in the market. Finally in FX banks you are again relaying prices, and will likely do powerpoint presentation on certain markets that clients have requested e.g A middle eastern bank may have requested the banks view on turkish lira and hedging strategies that could be implemented. Of course in this role again clients will call up and ask for general market views and flows.
I hope this helps. Feel free to ask any other questions.
How quantitative is a FX sales desk? (Originally Posted: 04/01/2015)
Looking to pick a desk for my summer, and am interested in macroeconomics, the big picture, etc. and have enjoyed the people I've spoken with from the desk. My only concern is that the desk may be a bit too quantitative for me. The desk is pretty generalist and while they do spot, swaps, etc. they also deal with FX options and seem to do a bit of structuring as well. For someone who isn't as mathy, would this be challenging to pick up? Thanks
Is it corporate FX sales or institutional?
Institutional
It's very unlikely that an FX desk is going to be very quantitative...
In general, not quantitative. If you're interested in the more quantitative side, FX offers some of the deepest exotic derivatives markets of any product, so there's plenty of room. Otherwise it's very macro.
My $0.02 - Rotated on a BB FX Sales desk as an SA and received a FT offer. My mores and preferences were similar to yours (OP).
If you like the macro stuff (which I did), FX Sales can be a very satisfying space. You will most certainly have to keep up with global affairs. However, I'd recommend having a solid grasp of macroeconomic theory, so you can actually interpret events according to a model, rather than simply regurtitate news items.
However, beyond macro fundamentals, you still need to understand the products you're selling, since their payoff profiles are how you're going to express your macro views. You might like China, or dislike the Euro, but then you'll be asked "so what's the trade?" and you'll need to tender. more than one recommendation.
As for how quantitative it is, the general answer is "not very, but in some areas it is". If you have a distribution curve of quant complexity of different S&T products (with Cash Equities being at the left, and certain kinds of Credit Derivatives at the right), FX Sales is in the bulge, likely a little left of mean, with the caveat that because Options are very common in FX, that component can up the complexity factor. For example, if you really like macroeconomics (as you say you do), you should understand yield curves, and if you understand yield curves, you should be able to get started as a junior in FX Sales. Remember also that the BBs will already have their pricing models written - your job is to know how to use them. Start with what you understand and then supplement with studying in your own time - don't try to talk about deeply OTM Put Skew if you don't really know what you're talking about, they'll be able to smell it right away.
One more thing about the regular use of Options and other derivatives in FX - you should welcome this. That is the more likely area for IBs to make money in FX, and compensate for the money they likely lose in Spot.
FX sales vs. FI / Equity Derivatives Sales ?? (Originally Posted: 04/18/2012)
Hello everyone!
Could you guys shed me some light on how FX Sales job might be different from the Fixed Income or Equity Derivatives Sales roles?
I am thinking about sales in both FX spot and FX options.
Thank you!!
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Please help!
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