Watched the FYRE documentary over the weekend (the Netflix one, not HULU). Did anyone else see this? Wanted to see what everyone else was thinking. Mainly, it's crazy how people think they take/scam people out of their money, and also, how people get scammed out of their money. Made me think about how ponzi schemes of MLM marketing still exist today; how can people not be smarter? Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
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Just watched it last night. I'm rarely use ig or fb so I didn't really hear about the fyre festival until the famed cheese sandwich picture made the rounds on mainstream news sites. The doc did a good job explaining the issues leading up to the event.
Overall, it could've been a success but the team behind it bit off more than they could chew and failed to recognize the key milestones missed as trouble markers. It didn't start off as a scam and I think Billy had the best intentions of putting on the festival as advertised.
I will say, I was surprised on how well the influencer marketing strategy worked. Anecdotally, I've heard that people, millennials mostly, were putting more stock into what their favorite "celebrities" post on social media, but I didn't realize that the reach and influence was at this scale. It's almost scary how well the strategy worked.
At the end of the doc, they touched on the latest scam with Frank.... that's straight up fraud.
The Netflix doc was better than the Hulu doc anyhow.
What surprised me was how easy it was for that doofus to raise money. No matter what, he could always fly back to NYC and get a couple hundred thousand or a couple million from these investors like Bobby Jain's wife "Carola" who "believed in him" even though the entire time he came across as a used car salesman with ADHD.
Anyway, a bunch of dumbass rich kids gets getting scammed always brightens my day, and I thought the documentary was very entertaining. Pretty fucked up what they did to the locals in terms of non-payment though. I really felt for the restaurant owner who blew through her only $50k in savings.
They set up a go fund me for her after the release of the documentary. Last I saw it was sitting at 200k. Hopefully the money actually gets to her.
agreed, but 2 points of clarification: 1. Carola is also CMO for Spartan Race so she's not exactly a housewife to a rich financier 2. Not everyone who got screwed was rich. The few shown in the documentaries were easy to hate rich kids, but there were a lot of others who wouldn't fit that bill. I saw some stories online of more middle class kids who saved up $2k for what they thought was going to be an epic trip with friends. In retrospect they look stupid, but cant hate on trying to take a party week with friends.
Thought the kid was a marketing genius but comically bad at execution. They straight advertised for a festival without securing the venue first...? I watched the netflix one first and then watched the Hulu doc because I was intrigued. No real comment on which one was better. I thought both were interesting.
Also, 100% guaranteed we hear from this guy again once he's out of jail.
Can't wait for movie starring Ben Affleck and Morgan Freedman with facial de-aging technically.
He will definitely get some fame, Wolf of Wall Street style.
I couldn't really blame the kids that fell for the scam. I mean cmon, who doesn't want to go to a festival with hot chicks on a island in the Caribbean? The influencers also played a much bigger role in the deception than the story lets on too. It reminded me of a scene from Silicon Valley where they're unveiling the new Hooli product but no one tells Gavin Belson they're months and months behind schedule. It's blissful ignorance at the top and fear at the bottom of the pyramid. All in all dude should be in jail for much much much longer than what he got and I doubt he gives up scheming even after serving time.
On top of that, you really can't fault the new yuppies who saw $1200 for six days in the fucking Bahamas and all these "influencers" telling them that yeah it's totally legit.
This isn't a bunch of BB interns, high off their ass on coke spending 3/4 of their money on a music festival. This was a bunch of goddamned 25 year olds wanting to feel cool and gettin fuckin scammed. Kinda sucks don't ya think?
Yeah no joke, all that fuckin money lost cuz some dude wanted to feel like he was on top of the world. The one good thing that came out of the documentary is that Bahamian lady finally got paid through a go-fund me after she burned her life savings paying all of the workers.
I just made the comment above without seeing this, but you're exactly right. A lot of these kids were just trying to party with friends....can't hate on that.
I think it all boils down to a lack of execution (to the 1,000,000th degree). All we hear about is the great leaders these days "figure it out" and Jobs/Bezos/Musk just push employees until it works. Well Billy and his team of idiots were never going to make this work, but by the time they realized this it was too late.
Here's what I don't get about McFarland. Why on earth were folks lining up to give him money or cooperate with him?
You're an event planning expert and you know it takes 18 months to plan a festival. He wants to do it in 4. So you sign on? WTF?
He has no venue or infrastructure. You know this. So you stake your reputation on this project anyway??
You're an investor. You've seen Magnisses go down in flames. You've not seen a single person successfully book an artist on the fyre app. There's no evidence that anything he's done has been successful. So you keep cutting him blank checks??
Whatever happened to KYC?
Two things I think:
Everyone wants to get in the group floor, and sometimes people jump in with both feet, kinda like the ".com" boom. Also, if you talk to people who have money but don't necessarily know about music festivals, they just connect the dots between Woodstock and glimpses of what they see on TV or hear, it's probably pretty easy to get their money.
It's easy to get people's money when you actually lie to them. Better if you can back the lie up. For example, "hey, I have $20mn in FB stock, lend me money so I don't have to sell it, and if things go south I'm backed by the stock." Not bad, except when that $20mn is only $2k, you got a problem. (Think about Madoff-smart dudes invested with that guy)
I think people would be surprised at how little diligence some people do before investing in start-ups, especially if the founder is a great salesman. If you've read Bad Blood (highly recommend) Rupert Murdoch invested $120mm in Theranos basically from meeting with Holmes once.
Like some of the festival goers, I think both the investors and that consultant got caught up in FOMO given what this theoretically could be. I think the consultant even said that he had talked to others in the industry who said this thing was legit (in the early stages) and the fact that they had already sold out the entire festival was proof enough for him to sign on.
Talk about putting the cart before the horse... not fully taking into account the existing infrastructure of the place and also thinking that any solution can be solved by just throwing more money at it when you don't have experienced people to execute logistics. SMH
I worked with a guy 5-6 years ago who knew Billy from high school. Billy came from a very well-to-do family (I'm not sure what their background is ) which enabled him to drop out of college and start a series of "start-ups." I use the quotes because of the golden parachute he had around him.
That being said Magnises took off. When the guy I worked with mentioned it, I thought it was the dumbest millennial sounding shit I had ever heard of; mind you I am a Millennial. I know a lot of people love the allure of exclusivity, but come on. They would pay attractive, outgoing girls and guys to be a part of the brand so you could feel cool by paying for it. Next Step Realty is another company that does this; they pay the hottest seniors at good colleges to convince dudes that they should use Next Step and maybe have a shot with the chicks. Came back to edit this - Next Step is actually doing well and not a scam, I just think the model is grimy.
Why anyone was paying $500 a year or whatever it was to have a fake thick credit card mimicking the black card is beyond me. I guess it's human nature.
Real estate developers. Smh
It really is. I feel like it is the modern day keeping up with the Joneses.
I think it was in the Netflix doc when Billy said something along the lines of, "we're selling a dream to middle class no bodies". It's kind of sad that people want to belong that badly.
It's not even human nature it's just flat out idiotic. The point is to be rich not to look rich.
Pretty sure it was a lot less than that, but lets extend it. Why does anyone buy knockoff brands? Hell, why does anyone buy luxury brands? I could spend $50,000 on a Patek Philippe watch or $500 on a lesser brand that has effectively the same reliability and functionality. It's a status issue. AMEX Centurion is a high-prestige brand, it's completely natural that people want to imitate it and feel good taking it out at Starbucks; after all, the person there might not catch on it's not the same.
You could argue that even Starbucks is a status issue. It's a own franchise built on I'm better than you because I paid for a trendy coffee.
I went to a small expensive private college and holy shit Next Step Realty was EVERYWHERE. Talk about a blast from the past, everyone was a "Brand Ambassodor" for that shit.
Anyone know what the Calvin Wells guy does? Doc said he was a financier and he mentioned he worked with some of the artists Fyre tried to book
Seems to work for AGI which seems to be a lower middle market PE. Think somewhere during his interview he was wearing some Ole Miss type clothing
https://www.bloomberg.com/profiles/people/18991535-calvin-wells
I saw that too but couldn’t make the connection to how he knows the artists. So I thought maybe that wasn’t him
Hotty Toddy
That Marc Weinstein guy went to Wharton and was in BB IB for two years before becoming a "festival consultant", according to his LinkedIn. Interesting career path to say the least.
Damn. Yea, just checked him out. Wild background
Worked with him during that IB stint. Good guy. Hopefully this episode doesn't drag him down too much. Haven't seen the doc yet.
Looks like he’s now with Wave Financial, an early stage investment / consulting services focused on crypto companies.
So he was an ex IB analyst-events consultant-yoga instructor-crypto investor / advisor. That’s definitely unique. Maybe you can get him to do an AMA here
I knew a group of girls that fell for the scam. Very nice girls, but also, you know how you have that subset of your friends who you are just less sympathetic for? Like, I want good things for you but I also kind of wouldn't mind you getting knocked down a peg once in a while?
That's who these girls are for me. They're straight out of central casting: all 25 years old ex sorority chicks working in Wall St sales, getting paid good money mostly due to their looks and bubbly personalities. And as if that wasn't ego-inflating enough, they're also led to believe they make that much because they're smart and possess finance acumen that other hot chicks don't have. Right.
So while I still want good things for them in life, don't think I didn't love it when the leader of the pack texted me from Miami about how her weekend got screwed because her influencer friends gave her bad advice on attending this music festival. Moments like that get me through long weekends in the office.
Not to get off topic, but these chicks will always be around...they get more annoying when they start to have kids, posting shit on IG like every other chick isn't capable of doing the same thing. Can't wait until they all start going through their divorce cycle.
Also hate when they do the "fake" IG pic, i.e. they want a natural picture of them laying in bed or "working hard" but it's not a selfie (not that I agree with those); you literally made someone take this picture of you
The divorce cycle will be entertaining.
The instagram influencer thing really drives me nuts. I have a natural skepticism about most things but when my gf constantly shows me these fashion bloggers she follows and all the expensive purses/jewelry they show off and wonders how they afford it all I lose it. Maybe some of them earned or married money and its real but I truly believe its the instagram marketing machine selling the luxury lifestyle. I tell her its all a facade to get you to buy stuff you realistically should not be buying unless you have really made big bucks. Not to get all Holden Caufield over this but its ridiculous what my generation will do to pretend they have made it.
tell me more about these girls.
Also, obligatory pics or it didnt happen
Um. It happened. There's two documentaries about it.
How delicious was the schaedenfreude on a scale of 1 to 10?
I liked both but thought the Hulu one was better. IMO it illustrated the true nature of the scam a bit better, and the interview with Billy was very illustrative since he came off as completely scripted.
I have no sympathy for any of the “investors” in Fyre. They should’ve done their KYC due diligence and realized that Ja Rule was straight off a two-year jail sentence for tax evasion. Thoroughly enjoyed the documentary as it’s a pretty legit expose of “influencers.”
That Billy Mcfarland guy was simply a fraud. I don’t really buy the narrative that “omg he was a great entrepreneur and marketer who made mistakes.” Listening to him string 1-2 sentences together had me convinced he’s not smart. The guy didn’t last a year in college. Ceteris paribus, don’t trust college dropouts.
I watched both and thought they were exceptional in their own rights.
For real though both of these nearly gave me a friggin' anxiety attack. Billy is driving full speed into a brick wall and is acting like everything is wine and roses.
Billy meet reality, reality, meet Billy...
I just want to know who that chick Corolla is and why she sucked him off so much. People can't plan weddings in 6-12 months let alone a festival!!!!!!!!!!
She’s the wife of Bob Jain, a former CS executive, which is wild....
Also, his gf is a smoke and apparently they're still dating even though he is in jail?
She must be a russian mail order bride right?????
Read somewhere she started dating him after Fyre became a shitstorm. But given the above posts talking about him coming from a well to do family, guess she figures there’s some pay off sticking around.
The Hulu doc apparently paid Billy for the interview, which has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way (fraudster getting richer). I didn’t see the Hulu version but reviews all more or less echoed the same thing - that his interview didn’t really provide any new information, and he was cagey about the details.
Obviously Billy is a fraud, but why not just do the festival 18 months out? I mean it was such a simple solution why did he have to make it happen right then and there? Anyways he is a snake and all the people working there are snakes too because all of them kept saying "We told Billy there is no way" but then they kept trying? Dude quit and stop wasting your time with this festival!
Is no one gonna talk about the guy prepared to "take one for the team"?? He even said the festival wasn't gonna happen and he was still willing to do this. Who admits to doing something like that on television haha goodness man
Your questions are good ones. I have a few guesses at answers but they're just guesses.
Why not do it 18 months out: Biggest reason I think is that it allows too much runway for other people to come up with similar ideas and crowd out the novelty of the whole thing. Also, there was a pretty big working capital problem in this case. Artists, staff, the seller of the island, consultants . . list goes on and on of the various people who need to be paid upfront to some degree and if the money can't be recouped quickly then it's a big chunk of debt (or debt posing as investor equity).
Andy, aka Mr. Take One For the Team - how zen is that guy? At first I had the question you did, like how could he say that. But he seems so insanely at peace with himself I kind of want to know what he takes or what kind of yoga/meditation stuff he's into.
The main thing I don't get is that there's no mention (that I can remember) of hard drug use by Billy and his team. His delusional behavior in the final days (trying to save the impossible event even when it's clear he could reduce his pain by canceling) is hard for me to imagine anyone doing without some good chemicals in the system.
My favorite (subtle) part of the Netflix documentary thats not getting love on this thread is that after Fyre Billie went on to start another, possibly more fraudulent venture called NYC VIP Access. This venture just used his previous company's email list and tried to sell tickets and experiences they didn't have. Straight up fraud.
I love that Netflix showed Angelo Roefaro participating in the fraud. Who is Roefaro? (you might ask). CHUCK SCHUMER'S FUCKING PRESS SECRETARY!
One of the better parts (besides the dude talking about going to perform the sexual act) was listening to Ja Rule explain how the festival wasn't fraud.
Might as well listen to Wesley Snipes tell you how to avoid paying taxes.
The way in which Ja speaks is hilariously typical of low-moderate intelligence, high confidence men who have a lot of energy and want to be in the fray, but have no idea how to execute. It's so adorable to listen to him speak.
Once that came at the end I was like 'wow f this guy!!!' big time lol
Wasn’t fraud... just... false advertising
The thing with Schumer’s press secretary, coupled with the fact that Billy invited a film crew to videotape him committing felonies while on bail is actually more interesting than the rest of the documentary.
One of the things that makes this such a good doc is that so much of the actual planning is recorded in some way, so you get to watch everything happen as it did in real time. And you can see how/why so many famous people got involved in it through the social media campaign.
But there is simply no explanation as to why Billy decided to record his team calling Fyre attendees to sell bogus tickets, or why Schumer’s staffer is in on this two-bit scam. I would love to find out more about this.
You're right, there's more to be told here. The story made sense when it was a smart, impatient, overly ambitious young guy with poor judgment chasing big ideas that he can't execute. But then same guy just frantically starts selling blatantly fake shit in front of a film crew while on bail. It's like the criminal version of going on tilt.
"We aren't a problems group we are a solutions group" - Billy
It's all about execution.. Billy had a great vision, but couldn't execute.
His vision was shit and so was he.
You can't sell a $5000 experience for $600-$1200.
Yea...it’s funny though because you look at something like Netflix or telsa (not the last two quarters), you can in a way look at them as fraud, providing a service/running a company at a cost to the consumer less than it actually cost.
But you could also look at a lot of things and think they resemble pyramid schemes in a certain light.
Yeah it's actually kind of funny, because at that price point you want to sell at $5,000 experience for $5,500-$6,000 and offer flawless execution so that lazy people will constantly use you in exchange for the markup haha
---------------------------
That's true, but the real question is could they have pulled it off regardless. You could say that about anything- Madoff's problem was he scaled too quickly, if he started small...
I mean, they had a 23 year old who never booked an entertainer trying to get Blink-182 and other high profile groups. They sacrificed experience on their team for control.
That's a bit like saying the great recession came down to liquidity. The point of the event WAS all the unnecessary bs, but he couldn't afford anything he planned-venue, infrastructure, housing, catering, talent, etc. There's a reason why Coachella and Burning Man are run by billionaires. This thing had no shot in any capacity. It was telling how he fired that pilot for nagging him about important details like bathrooms/sewage treatment or suggesting a cruise ship to house guests. It was just easier to completely deny reality.
Exactly... the NFLX doc said food was going to cost ~$6mn, and they only had a budget of $1mn. How do you overshoot your budget by 500%?
I watched the hulu doc and it was evident to me that Billy has psychopathic tendencies. Fyre was one of a long line of frauds he created since he was a young kid. Similar to a Bernie Madoff type.
It will be interesting to watch his next ventures once he emerges from prison. People with brains like his can never stop. It is compulsive.
I agree, I mean he went straight back to committing fraud right after he was released for bail on the fyre festival charges.
Shocking what people consider “influencers” Just a bunch of narcissistic idiots using “spreading positivity “ as an excuse to post a picture of their mug on Instagram and flaunt their parent’s money. What’s worse is the drooling idiots that spend hours of their lives gawking at said “influencers” social media instead of getting after it and start building the life they want. Rich or not, the people didn’t deserved to get scammed by that border-line sociopath. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a good time
Saw a meme the other day that said "the internet is just people without jobs telling people with jobs to quit their jobs and take chances".
"Influencers" are going to have to be a crazy think to explain to the grandkids--> "yea, they were people who sold fit tea, took pics of their ass, and arranged bagels in a certain way."
Reading this again, I agree that people shouldn’t be scammed no matter how much money they have.
However, there are people who literally will buy something strictly on the sense that it’s elite, or luxury, or upper class.
I sincerely hope this doc and the american meme cause people to chill the fuck out with social media. probably not gonna happen, but a bro can dream right?
I don't think it will chill out until we're able to put our real thoughts on social media. It's like a rule that everyone has to be nice. Not saying we should be mean to everyone, but people are deciding to make things public, why can't we express our true feelings.
You mean it won't burn out until it's as socially acceptable to call out people's social media BS as it is to post social media BS? I don't think we'll reach that state of equilibrium given that it doesn't work that way face-to-face, either.
I watch both this past weekend. My God, that was crazy, i felt adrenaline the entire time and kept asking myself "is this even real?". Yes people are that easily influenced i don't say that in a condescending way as much as I think people secretly wanted it to be true.
Let's tease the fantasy out a bit, you are an individual who doesn't want for anything because money is plentiful/always had it and you find out there is a historical event taking place on a deserted island. Everything that aligns with your value system is going to be promoted/exercised and rewarded. That social status that you worked so hard to portray on social media is finally being praised. You DESPERATELY want it to be true. You are getting that attention that you value so much. You start to overlook some obvious things, a few corners are being cut, etc. The rug is slowly being pulled from under you, the pot is slowly beginning to boil. Before you know it your flat on your face/cooked and you are running for a FEMA tent while carrying a wet mattress on your back.
I am not rich, never had been. I only have social media to keep up with friends. I almost never post. But there are people in this world who need it, like a junkie needs crack/coke/(whatever your fancy). Their logical mind could have told them this doesn't make any sense but they wanted to believe it was true and they did.
I think the bigger point here isn't that people are that stupid but man people can be persuaded into believing just about anything with the right resources by the right people.
Absolutely agree. Maybe people are just that stupid nowadays.
I guess a quarter of a million+ Ivy education can't buy basic brains or morals.
(Skimming on mobile so ignore if this has been said, but...)
What about that Justin Liao guy (one of the attendees) who was bragging about how he and his bros didn’t want neighbors by their tent. Then went on to ransack and destroy all the neighboring tents, and pissed on any spare beds to ward people off?
What a douche canoe.
He apparently has an explanation for it on his instagram. But if you look through the rest of his instagram you’ll see that he is, in fact, a douche canoe obsessed with his image. I think it’s linked somewhere on reddit or in this thread
But we're talking about him, right? That's what matters, right?
Lol literally don't feel bad for people like Justin Liao. Honestly, he is no better than Billy in this situation. What is really f****** scary is that people like Justin/Billy actually have influence/money in this world that they not only spend on dumb s*** but use to destroy people's lives. Justin may not be a criminal yet, because he destroyed a little property and got away with it, but hell he is no better than a common looter or a burglar. Other influencers too. What a bunch of dimwit ignorant little shits with perfect hair. I only wonder what does this make us for listening to them and giving them our attention of the day?
I just watched the Hulu one and it was way better/provided a lot more insight. Apparently the Netflix one was made by FuckJerry, which actually heavily promoted the festival and is trying to avoid any liability.
in fuckjerry's defense, he was the highest donor to the restaurant owner's gofund me, over $30k if my memory is right
Oh wow, 30k
I think I’d have more of a problem with Hulu paying $250k to Billy for his interview. I could be wrong, maybe I need to review exactly their involvement, but FuckJerry just felt like they were also hired to do their promotion job (were told this is going to be a paradise party where planning is in the works), and then misled or taken on the ride like everyone else.
Besides the initial shooting of the video on the original island, was FuckJerry actually involved in the logistics or were on the new “island” when things went south?
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