Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 4 Discussion (Spoilers)

justphresh's picture
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Alright everyone I'm back. Let me start off this by saying that if you believed Episode 3 made sense narratively then you weren't following the story well. After episode 4, I understand what the show did. This will be decently long but the TLDR is: The Long Night is the true ending of the show and they changed it for $$$.

The ending makes sense if you work back from this key point. The reason nobody could die in episode 3 and it felt like EVERYONE had unreal, jarring plot armor is because... they did. That was because they COULDN'T die because that fight wasn't supposed to happen yet. That battle is supposed to be AFTER the battle with Cersei (Or more like Feagon in the books as it would be a Targaryen invading westeros led by the true King Feagon (a Blackfyre loved by the people and makes Dany going mad make way more sense as she is effectively an usurper)).

Why was Tyrion an idiot and "trusted" that Cersei would send her army when she OBVIOUSLY was not going to and it felt forced? Because there was no army and there was never a stupid plot of going beyond the wall to get a wight to show to her. None of that actually happens but it had to in order to change the plot from the real story. Cersei is dead and her armies were dead before that long night coming up in these episodes. Wouldn't it make more sense for Jon (or Feagon) to Unite the Seven Kingdoms after everything with Westeros happens? Uniting the realm against a singular threat after being shown to be the true ruler.

The show runners did not or COULD NOT create the final the way it was supposed to be with the Long Night. But guess what HBO is doing? They're creating a prequel about the white walkers..? That's weird isn't it? Why would you do that after neutering that entire storyline seemingly out of nowhere? Because its the actual ending they'll repackage to milk the GoT cash cow. Yes, the Arya storyline of her killing the NK felt JARRING and out of place, that's because it was. It was done for money/time management reasons. If you work backwards from this theory, the entire story falls into place (as much as a TV show with a budget can).

We can discuss this more after the series is over. I think people will start to jump on board with this theory as we finish out the show. Remember, think BACKWARDS from the idea that HBO wants as much money as possible because... they do. Why wouldn't you carve out a huge part of the story (the ending), repackage it, and serve it back to the viewers as "DLC" ( like Mass effect 3) for the real ending?

Think of Episodes 4, 5, and 6 to be the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd episodes. Also, remove any of the whiter walker storylines happening the past 2-3 seasons and episodes 1,2, and 3 not happening yet. Put all of the Great Other plotlines near the end to AFTER these final 3 episodes.

TLDR: This is the "real" ending before the Long Night. Watch this as if the characters are the characters from the books with all their powers (Book Euron can DEFINITELY kill dragons).

Thoughts?

Comments (36)

Most Helpful
May 6, 2019

Man, I just think GoT really went downhill. Last nights episode was so weak and full of plot holes.

How did Dany not see the fleet of ships while on top of her dragons in the sky?

How in the hell did Euron manage to so accurately hit Rhaegal with only a couple of spears (while firing on a ship on water from hundreds of meters away), and then manage to miss like 50 shots at Dany right after?

Why didn't Dany fly behind or above the fleet and light them on fire (surely the scorpions aren't that maneuvarable to cover all those angles.)

How is Jon not going to pet Ghost before his final goodbye??? (I bet they removed Ghost from the show cause CGI budget)

How did Cersei not take advantage of eliminating Dany, her dragon, and her small force when they approached the gate? We know Cersei is a ruthless witch, who wouldn't think twice before dishonorably eliminating her opponents like that.

Brann is lame. Cool wheelchair lore bruh.

I didn't mind Jaime's arc because I think he is going back to Kings Landing to kill Cersei.

Anyway, shits weak. I just pray some of the spoilers that leaked don't come true because that would crush my soul.

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May 6, 2019
mgaT:

Man, I just think GoT really went downhill. Last nights episode was so weak and full of plot holes.

How did Dany not see the fleet of ships while on top of her dragons in the sky?

How in the hell did Euron manage to so accurately hit Rhaegal with only a couple of spears (while firing on a ship on water from hundreds of meters away), and then manage to miss like 50 shots at Dany right after?

Why didn't Dany fly behind or above the fleet and light them on fire (surely the scorpions aren't that maneuvarable to cover all those angles.)

This is because the ending is the book ending. In the books Euron is OP AF. He can hide his fleet with magic, he has a horn that can bind dragons and take down the wall in the North, and is basically a wizard with otherworldly powers. It feels weird because he SHOULDN'T be able to kill a dragon like this based on the show, but since they're using Martin's ending (this part at least) Euron has to be OP Euron from the book.

mgaT:

How did Cersei not take advantage of eliminating Dany, her dragon, and her small force when they approached the gate? We know Cersei is a ruthless witch, who wouldn't think twice before dishonorably eliminating her opponents like that.

Yeah this was dumb and done for drama. It wouldn't be done like this in the actual story.

mgaT:

Brann is lame. Cool wheelchair lore bruh.

That's because if you read what I wrote, they got rid of his plotline. He will end up being the lead character (Maybe King, probably more likely he leads the realm in some democratic way) when the show is over and it won't make any sense. It will be because the Long Night is still to come and Bran is the focal point for humanity in the upcoming battle.

mgaT:

Anyway, shits weak. I just pray some of the spoilers that leaked don't come true because that would crush my soul.

I also read those spoilers and if you use my theory all of them fit perfectly and make sense.

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May 7, 2019

@justphresh I appreciate your first response here, but I am still pretty agitated by the screenwriters . I know I am not alone (and possibly not even in the minority) when I say that I didn't read the books, and therefore, had no idea that Euron was the fucking lizard king. The fact that the show completely failed to mention that this dude had some supernatural powers was a bit frustrating, and I am sure most people (like me) were stunned that Rhaegal got absolutely torched. To see one of the three most menacing beasts in the show get iced in two seconds, out of left field, by a seemingly avoidable enemy just felt lazy. I mean come on, getting hit by 3/3 massive arrows from serious range? And then to miss every single shot on Dani, when literally 25+ ships were all focused at her as she flies DIRECTLY at them. This whole scene was maybe the most suspect in the entire season for me, and made me take a step back in frustration. I think @mgaT really summed up my frustrations for the episode well tho, +1 to each of you

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May 7, 2019

Spoiler: Gilly will sit on the iron throne.

May 7, 2019

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May 6, 2019

Jesus, just when I thought it couldn't get worse than the last episode, Dumb&Dumber went ahead and outdid themselves

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May 6, 2019

Pretty impressive when a show that costs $15 million per episode and is off air for two years leaves a Starbucks cup on the table in a televised episode. If it wasn't apparent to fans that Dan and Dave are mailling it in and already on to the prequel, look no further.

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May 6, 2019

The general plot of this episode (in Westeros) made sense if you read my theory.

May 6, 2019
  • Only half of the Dothraki died? So we're just ignoring the charge in episode 3.
  • Only half of the unsullied died? Didn't they sacrifice themselves to protect the retreat?

There are so many examples of this and I am starting to realize I am just the dumbass for expecting any sort of consistency, this show has been falling to crap since season 6.

Also seemed like a middle finger to the viewers to have Davos ask about what the lord of light wanted and wanting an explanation and Tyrion basically saying we don't talk about that.

May 6, 2019

Exactly. At the end of the last episode there's clearly 50 people AT MOST (and that's being generous) left in Winterfell.

May 6, 2019

Did you read any of what I wrote? The reason for that is because that battle wasn't supposed to happen yet.

May 6, 2019

I thought the first half was very strong. Back to the politicking and scheming and less of the zombies vs. dragons. The second half wasn't awful, but it was way too sped up - weeks worth of plot points stuffed into 30-40 minutes. They really did themselves a disservice by not having both seasons 7 and 8 a full 10 episodes. The proper passage of time would have fixed much of the writing.

There are so many overreactions to these last two seasons, which, IMO, is still some of the best television available even with the decrease in writing quality.

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May 6, 2019

Extra time would not have changed the writing. Did nobody read my post damn it lol they CHANGED the plot for $$$ in order to sell you a prequel.

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Funniest
May 6, 2019
justphresh:

Extra time would not have changed the writing. Did nobody read my post damn it lol they CHANGED the plot for $$$ in order to sell you a prequel.

I don't really care about your fan theories. I'm talking the episode in general.

And yes, adding 7 more episodes in total would have, by default, changed the writing.

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May 6, 2019

If they wanted to make a prequel about the White Walkers then seems like your logic is a bit backwards... why not make that the final battle and make it a huge deal, with tons of Night King and Bran lore and intrigue that is left unfinished at the last episode of the show?

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May 6, 2019

Because they ran out of time/money. They can only do so much with the limited time frame that they have. Also, it's full of prophecies and complicated storylines. The average viewer legitimately think's Dany's name is Khaleesi. They aren't going to understand the parallels between Azor Ahai, Missa Missa, the Long Night, the significance of Arthur Dayne protected Jon Snow (born under a bleeding star being his sword), etc. etc. This ending is WAY easier to understand but I GUARANTEE you after the final episode airs you will think back to this post. The end won't make sense for what the characters because it will be a set up to fight the Long Night that the real story has.

May 6, 2019

Episode full of plot holes as detailed in other posts. GoT will never be as good as it was for the first ~5 seasons but I will still enjoy it till the end. 7/10 for the episode.

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May 6, 2019

Someone made a good point that there are episodes in S1 - S5 that have similar plot holes but the books give enough extra context to resolve those issues.

I've seen people argue the writing is no more or less filled with plot holes, just the support to plug those holes is no longer there since we are well past the books.

May 6, 2019

I disagree. Would have to go back but these are pretty massive and completely nonsensical. Like the killing of Rhaegal - just bad writing. They could've found a more plausible way to do it. Then they follow it up with Cersei not letting off with her giant cross-bows during the standoff... what?

May 6, 2019

Your theory is fucking retarded and if it comes true I'll cap myself IRL

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May 6, 2019

How is it retarded? What part? I would love to hear what part is bad and defend it. The reason I watch shows is to figure out the story. The reason I was devastated by episode 3 is because it was so jarringly out of place and made no sense in the context of the story. By applying what I said all of the storylines fit damn near perfectly.

May 6, 2019
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May 6, 2019
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Ty