Gender in Email Signature
I've been out of the US for a while but am now interacting via email with a large number of US based people. I've noticed a fairly large number of them (probably 1 in 5 or so) put their gender / gender identification in their email signature,** i.e. Josh Smith (him / his)**. This is the first I've seen of this and genuinely wanted to better understand:
- Is this common?
- Are there really a high percentage of people that identify as another gender (and not the one they were born of) that it makes sense for society to move towards this?
- Is this considered normal / expected of people in 2020 in the US or is it fine to not have this? I would assume the latter, but it would be great to hear what others have to say.
No
That’s some pussy shit.
My pronouns are
he/him/BDSM
Lmao
Yeah, real hard asses call random people on the internet "pussies" from behind a keyboard as an anonymous intern.
Coward.
Thank you token WSO lib. My main goal was definitely to be a “hard ass” and certainly was NOT to make a joke!
It's really not a big inconvenience and makes some people more comfortable — like, is taking 34 seconds to put pronouns in your signature actually harming you in any way?
Nah I’m just not gonna give into/normalize the delusions of people who think they’re a different gender from what their chromosomes say
Thank you.
“Delusions”? Excuse me? I know this is a forum for finance bros, but I’m shocked that so many people would support blatant transphobia.
20 years ago, people would have said the same thing about “those people with DELUSIONS” that they’re attracted to people of the same sex. I think that most people - at least, most educated / wealthy people - now can at least accept that gay people exist, and you would never call being gay a “delusion”. And if you would, for the love of Christ read a book or something and take yourself out of the 20th century.
Not normal practice at all. People who do that are likely to make their entire personality about being gay/trans and, like much of the overly liberal population (think Cali) are absolutely one-dimsensional and sufferable to be around because they can't even fathom someone disagreeing with them. Honestly if one of my friends announced his pronouns like that I'd beat him over the head with a stick until he stopped. I'm ready for the MS.
Edit: you guys better enjoy this post while it lasts before mods delete it
you say this as if finance bros don't make their entire personality about being white and wearing vests
this is going to trigger a lot of kids who put "Incoming IB Analyst" on their linkedin
"Scum" Or "S Cum"?
Hang on, how is your post rated as most controversial?
My post has 20 Bananas and 8 MS, but yours has 33 bananas and 4 MS...
Damn you sound like a triggered snowflake
I’ve heard of kids pretending to be gay so they can join diversity programs. And surprisingly the get in.
Why the fuck not lol. On my next apps I'll do half as bisexual and half as someone with a spanish grandmother.
It doesn't matter but retards/snowflakes like the guy above me will reeeeeeee about it so I wouldn't do it (unless you know the person you're reaching out to is "woke," in which case it's a positive that will help you). In 10~ years it'll probably be more common.
rich handler (jeffries ceo) does it so that should be a major indicator that it’s a cringy marketing tactic used to virtue signal
but he's so cool and relatable on instagram
Edit: someone can’t detect sarcasm
he's so cringe, making it look like people at jefferies are not slaving away like other IBanks
some women put (Mrs) after their name to avoid being addressed as Ms. the only place I’ve seen she/her, him/his or it/that is on twitter profiles but then, I’m just a pond-scum intern, what would I know.
+1 for self awareness. i wish more interns on here displayed the same kind of humility more often.
So, to actually answer your question in case it hasn’t been made clear yet:
People are putting their pronouns in their email signatures for 1 of 2 reasons.
1) They do not identify as a man, but on first glance would be normally perceived as a ‘man’ in person. (Or Vice Versa) So most people when meeting for the first time would refer to them as “him” or use “his”. This is completely normal because we’ve all been raised to assign physical characteristics among other things to only two genders: Man and Woman
2) They DO identify with the gender that most people would normally perceive them as, but are putting their pronouns in their email to remind people that even if you think that someone who “looks like a man” is a man, you should not assume so. Both reasons point to the increasing acceptance of transgender (people who are born as a male, but their gender— or how they feel in their soul, is a woman) and non-binary (people who don’t identify as a man or a woman) people who are now coming out the closet. Think of it as similar to the 80’s where is was a cardinal sin to be gay in public in the USA, you could actually lose your job or be kicked out of the military or even put into a psych ward because it was thought be a “severe mental illness”. Now (for the most part for people who are not willfully ignorant or just asshats) it’s “generally acceptable” to be gay in society. People will definitely still judge you, but you can get equal access to health care and jobs without fear of losing everything because of your sexuality.
There’s a lot tied into this, and it doesn’t make sense unless one understands that sex does NOT equal gender and then personally accepts this as truth so they respect the existence of other people who are, no matter if you like it or not, are transgender or nonbinary.
I’m definitely simplifying it, but it’s for sure in the early stages of being normalized in the United States (particularly in liberal places — like many colleges and cities and stuff). There’s a LONG way to go but that’s it in a nutshell. With all this being said, even I as someone who is still working through fully accepting this reality myself because I do identify with the gender I was assigned at birth (cisgender) I do what I can to show respect for those who don’t because it really does make the world at least a little safer for them with no skin off my back besides maybe a little discomfort.
If you have serious questions about this, because it is confusing upon first exposure, feel free to PM me any time.
lol aren't you the same person from the affirmative action thread
lmao yeah I’m not the type to hide behind anonymity
Outside the whole debate around transgender acceptance, it’s also just helpful when someone has a name that could be either gender. Nothing worse than emailing a Jamie without a profile picture on their LinkedIn and trying to guess if they’re a Mr or a Ms. I personally don’t have my gender in my signature but I have a clearly male name, but if you have a weird name or something that could go for either gender it’s honestly nice to get an indication of gender.
Then why not just put Mr. Firstname Lastname / Ms. Firstname Lastname in your signature? I never understood the importance of adding pronouns to your identity if you fall under traditional gender norms. If you're trans/etc. then sure go ahead but it really seems pointless otherwise.
People put Mr./Ms. in front of their names? I thought that's only done with titles like professor or president.
I've never understood this. if I am speaking to you, I will call you by your name. If I am speaking about you and I don't know you, I will refer to you by your name. If I do know you, I may use something else like "that sexy piece of ass Jake" or "that smelly Chicago fan Chris" but you can avoid all of this nonsense by just calling people by their first name/preferred nickname.
and for those who are thinking of cold-emailing and wondering about use of Mr/Mrs/Ms, just use the first name, nobody cares unless they're currently negotiating a shovel handle in their anus
I mean yeah, this is basically bulletproof, however, not all people will act like you lol. Working under the idea that you're acting in a right way, not all other people will take the same actions as you...
“Hey man, who do i talk to about the office mixer later, that guy over there?”
“No, it’s Jamie/Charlie/Jordan over there”
“Who’s that man? You mean her over there?”
“No dude, it’s Jamie/Charlie/Jordan!”
You see, how useful pronouns could be?
Maybe try using their last name instead? A bit awkward, but bulletproof.
If someone’s androgynous, pronouns don’t help at all. I’d just say “I’ve never met them, introduce me please”
Problem solved
Less common in banking / finance. More common with philanthropic Boards / other industries.
People indicating 'pussy shit' and 'snowflake' will have a rude awakening when they get to a real job. Best to remove those comments from your general vocabulary now - quick way to get canned.
Don’t warn them, let them get canned. I’d rather know of someone’s lack of acceptance explicitly rather than having it be under wraps
Fire the pronoun users!!
Yep definitely going to behave the same way in the workplace as an anonymous forum.
Hello Mr. Managing Director in IB - Ind
It confused me at first so I looked into it and it's basically done to make those that identify differently more comfortable. I don't have an issue at all with it. Doesn't hurt me and if it makes someone else more comfortable, why not? Not something I'd mandate at our organizations but I think it's a nice gesture.
NO because being a kind and considerate human being at no detriment to myself is GAY and my father didn't love me enough to teach me that you don't need to be an ASSHOLE to be successful in the world
I agree with this. At the very least, this problem isn't a hill to die on, and at the very best, if it takes 10 seconds to make someone else feel more comfortable at your firm, why not?
Edit: I misread your comment
To actually answer this: 1. No, is not common and won't be in the near term but who knows 2. No its not a common thing so might make sense to list the pronouns if you look like a dude but identify as a woman (or vice versa) 3. Its fine to not have this - the large majority of people understand if they are a man or woman and think this is a complete waste of mental energy. Regardless if your confused, just used the person's name to avoid any issue - Trans people get HIGHLY offended if you mis-gender them so best to just avoid conflict
Let’s remember, putting gender pronounces help recruiters know the genders of kids in the U.S. with foreign names
Next, we'll have disclaimers in our email signatures acknowledging (and hopefully apologizing) that our office is located on stolen indigenous lands :)
Trans people literally kill themselves bc they're unable to be treated as who they really are Way to let us know you put your inability to deal with bigotry over the lives of others.
Wah wah you didn’t put pronouns in your bio so I guess I’ll go kill myself. insert Jonah Hill gif from this is the end
Nah you really don't understand how being trans works
Hmmm... Are you saying that transgender is a genetic mutation that will not survive natural selection?
Holy shit that just made a lot of sense. Gay & Transgender people by nature won't reproduce as much as straight people.
My pronouns are gender/is/binary
It definitely is not common, but there is no harm being done in doing so. I've seen people who pass as their gender include it, and in their cases, they are doing so to convey their understanding and open-mindedness regarding gender. I have also, of course, seen people do it whose genders are more ambiguous, whether that be due to their appearance or their name.
I have to say, I'm a little shocked to see that there are comments (highly upvoted ones, too) which are extremely narrow-minded. Given a lot of the people here attended top universities which work to foster inclusive environments, it is upsetting to see that these same people here are making egregious comments about gender identity and the LGBTQ+ community. While I wish your opinions were different, it is another thing to outwardly put down people who are a part of these communities. They are not hurting you, so why target them? What exactly is in it for you to tell people that gender is binary? It is truly the biggest flex to both work in a well-paying, prestigious industry AND be a kind, accepting, and inclusive person; the two need not be mutually exclusive.
If I convey my understanding and open-mindedness on nonscientific touchy feely gender positions, do you think that will make people view me as a more intelligent, more accepting, and all around better person? What a great idea!
The fact that your interpretation of my post is that I'm encouraging performative activism is a clear example of the issues I'm trying to address.
To answer your question: no, but if you are outwardly ignorant and unaccepting, then you may come across as the opposite of all of the things you just mentioned. It's a potential lose-lose situation for both you and the communities whose oppression you are perpetuating, so I genuinely do not see what the point is in being discriminatory in any way.
Perhaps you could benefit if you are expressing ignorant and discriminatory views with someone who also agrees with you, but think about the marginalized communities whose already difficult lives you are making worse off by openly encouraging this kind of mindset. We are all better than that.
Very well put
Just another example of how going to a target school isn't everything...or even anything
Hey I'm here for the LBGTQIAPK Modeling course - did I come to the right place??? (his majesty/his majesty's)
I've noticed the Karen ones are usually girls. And Jenny McCarthy is their queen.
![https://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200709/20070918/20070918_105_350x2…] [https://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200709/20070918/20070918_105_350x2… https://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200709/20070918/20070918_105_350x2…
Absolutely incredible what universities can sell kids on these days - troll job of the century.
This is a strange topic. I would think what would make the most sense is to put your name, your title and company.
Which you immediately did yourself
Nice
???
You've followed your own advice!
Sigh
This is a decent question, OP, but so many responses to this thread are predictably stupid.
No. It is more common in left-leaning companies or left-leaning areas, but it is not the norm. Personally, I've never even seen it in business communication, as opposed to somewhere like twitter.
No, there are not a high percentage of people who are trans or gender fluid, or for that matter, any part of the LGBTQ+ community. That doesn't mean that they matter any less, though.
It is perfectly fine to not have it, particularly if you are straight, because people are going to default to what you want to be called, since what you want to be called is the social norm.
People who put their pronouns after their name are either trans/gender fluid, work for a company that has trans/gender fluid people and want to show solidarity with them, or are making a general show of solidarity with the community. People here can scoff at the last group as "Social Justice Warriors" who are "Virtue Signaling" all they want, but for the first two groups I mentioned, it's better to just be understanding.
I'm not trans and don't know anyone particularly well who is, but that has to be a pretty damn hard life. Imagine mentally being something that you physically aren't. Given all of the uncertainty around what to call people of that community, I genuinely appreciate someone letting me know ahead of time. I'm sure I'll still mess up from time to time, and I'd hope they don't hold it against me, but I would never go out of my way to troll them by calling them something they don't want to be called either.
It has nothing to do with being "woke" or thinking you're a combatant in some "culture war." It's just empathy and human decency. Be good to one another and try to be understanding. Life is complicated, difficult, and simultaneously long and far too short. Best not to get wrapped around the axle about things like pronouns.
I don't have much to contribute here, but wanted to let you know your efforts to be a voice of moderation in this cesspool of a forum are much appreciated CRE. I know the majority of these posters are too cowardly to say any of this in real life but it's still disgusting to see and I'm glad at least some people in finance oppose it.
CRE, thank you for this. I can not believe the hypocrisy on this thread where people are telling the trans/genderfluid/ally community to not force their "lifestyles" on them, when in fact these same hypocritical people are forcing their narrow-minded ideologies onto these marginalized communities.
No it's not normal and it's just people encouraging other's mental illness
So comically ignorant.
Even if it was a "mental illness" it would hardly be something to be antagonistic about.
Do you go out of your way to stress someone out who has an anxiety problem?
Do you try to fuck with someone who is depressed?
Do you make fun of someone's weight when you know they're anorexic?
No? Then if you think it's a "mental illness," don't be a prick about this either.
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