Genetically Modified Foods

I know little to nothing about organics vs GMOs and I'm going to keep it that way. I eat what's easiest, cheapest or best-tasting, that's all there is to it.

While I personally prefer organic foods, GMOs are fucking amazing. It's a food source that makes food costs manageable for a lot of people. People who talk about banning GMOs are usually also talking about how we can solve world hunger. Well, listen up asshole, you want to solve world hunger then you damn well better not ban GMOs.

If I were a guy living below the poverty line, I'd be pissed at those fucks.

Not all GMO's are created equally, and I'm sure that given the profit motive there are some plenty bad ideas that are making it to market. For the most part, I'm in favor of them. People have been modifying their food supply for about 20,000 years....why blink now that we can literally pick and choose what genes are in our rice?

I have yet to meet a person against GMOs who understands an ounce of the underlying molecular biology

I think GMO typically connotates with Monsanto, whom most people aren't too fond of.

this is more of an issue with meats right? most veggies, organic or not, aren't genetically modified?

heister:

Do they even realize that more people die every year from organic foods, than have died from GMOs in the history of GMOs.

Not questioning you or doubting, but do you have a source or link with a particular study you are referencing? Would like to read about it tonight.

Thx.

Just want to say I am against GMO's. Mostly, because of how the companies that market their GMO crops do so in predatory and unethical ways and because my philosophy is that humans have not evolved to eat the kinds of crops GMO's produce.

Google search for the studies done regarding pig bellies and strict GMO diets. (too new to post links)

But I'm always skeptical of things that sound to good to be true. Cheaper, less water, healthier, greater yields, AND the solution to world hunger?! ... for some reason i think the solution to world hunger and poverty is a little more complex than allowing GMOs.

I think the jury is still out, in regard to long-term epidemiological evidence. I think the anti-GMO people need to tone down their angst as they tend to be way more vocal than the pro-gmo crowd. I think it is a nuanced issue, while there are many great benefits to GMO's, there seem to be at least some risks suggested as well.

I am indifferent. If we want to feed the masses we need GMO. I already avoid all of that shit, but my income can support it.

We need to air drop birth control everywhere. That would stem the never ending tide of humanity and allow us to actually grow normal food without having to engineering everything.

I can just imagine a bunch of hipsters bitching about GMO's while smoking cigs, drinking PBR and eating everything wrapped in bacon.

Don't smoke, don't be a fatass, do some cardio and watch what you eat. You'll live a normal life span with minimal issue.

We've been modifying our food for centuries. This is simply the next evolution. I suppose we should go back to salting everything because of evil preservatives.

Remember, GMO standing for Genetically Modified Organism, is very different from GE - Genetically Engineered Organisms.

GE has been going on for millions of years view processes like selecting seeds of stronger plants, grafting...etc. GMO on the other hand is a very recent thing being first approved for sale on the united states in the early 90's. GMO involves things like shooting radiation into a bunch of seeds and hoping/selecting a few of them that show beneficial mutations. Another method of GMO involves shooting the DNA of completely unrelated organisms into the seeds and hoping that the DNA mixes and the plant takes on some of the characteristics of both organisms. This can be the shooting of pesticides, spider DNA, you name it.

This is a very new science that has not been adequately tested. And I know this, if a donkey is sterile, what do you think will happen to you if you eat GMOs that contain a worse combination of various species?

Anyway, it is good to read about this stuff, it is very enlightening and you see that the truth, as always lies in the middle...

It's all these housewives that sit around home watching Maury and as soon as one of them yells out how Monsanto's evil, they all jump on the wagon and start doing it, meanwhile not a single one of them can tell you what's evil about it until someone says "oh its uhhh...gmo's! It's got the words "genetic" and "modified" in it, so it's obviously terrible for you, I saw it in a movie!" and then they're off again, citing pseudo-science on blogs written by their likeminded bored housewife-neighbors with liberal arts education. They don't know science, but they have decent writing skills and the ability to cite each other, so it must be true. Fucking housewives.

The simple fact is, there's 7 billion people to feed on this planet. That will not happen without GMO's, period. Or meat for that matter. If you're worried about eating healthy, then by all means buy your overpriced organic food. You're still probably gonna get cancer at some point, and ceterus parabus, you'll still most likely die in your 70's-90's.

The only writers for big newspapers that I have seen writing the arguments in the "pro" category for GMOs are lawyers working as lobbyists in Washington, DC.

GMOs grow their own pesticides in the form of Bacillus thurengiensis (Bt), I will have to dig and do some research in order to defend my argument better on exactly what pesticides GMO's grow themselves.

If you are investing or doing deals with Monsanto or other such companies, I would recommend being wary of the creditworthiness of these companies, as they are losing a lot - in terms of market share, revenue, growth...etc Most of these companies are combating this by buying small organic food companies and making some small changes to them - like Pepsi bought Naked Juice, Cocacola bought Odwalla and many more...

and pesticides are not necessarily man-made, there are many naturally occurring pesticides, actually, many plants create their own pesticides as a form of defense to prevent or deter other organisms from eating them. A very crude "pesticide" is a thorn that causes injury or harm to an animal trying to eat the fruit of a plant, although it does not kill that animal, it does cause them to seek food elsewhere. Another "pesticide" is found in the flavor of the fruit of the plant. For example, have you ever eaten a raw potato? Well, it isn't really that palatable and you have to cook it in order to break down all of the natural defenses built in by the plant before you get to its nutrients. Anyway, I don't want to digress any further.

So yes, a plant that grows its own pesticides, especially those found in GMO corn is not good for you, just as it is not good for the insect eating it. Yes, your consumption of such pesticide will not kill you, but it will cause you pain and discomfort in the longer term. Many people experience this in the form of gastrointestinal disorders, aka Crohn's disease, GERD, among other stomach pains/disorders. See, your body has its own natural defenses against these pesticides, they are known as your lymph nodes, your kidneys, your liver... and when you ingest such food, your body organs get to work cleaning out those poisons from your system. Until of course they get overloaded and you get diseases that are related to a weakened liver, kidneys...etc Oh, btw, Allergies comes from overloaded lymph nodes

And they don't "cut" a gene out of anything, they microscopically shoot DNA particles from one organism into another. Yeah, maybe they do something to the original DNA to say that it no longer has property A or property B, but the end result is still the same. Try doing some research on exactly how gene-splicing occurs, there isn't much information out there because it is a trade secret and of course, they don't want the general public to know. but if you knew they disable certain genes by irradiating the DNA you would not be so turned on to GMOs anymore.

and the only real organic food is what you grow in your backyard (or balcony/terrace) using soil that you took from the forest. Every company claiming "organic" is doing the absolute bare minimum in order to use that term as per the FDA regulations. So yes, we are all screwed, we just have to do our best to minimize that risk.

As for higher crop yield, first you must realize that the US government highly subsidizes the cost of GMO production, especially corn. Was it not for this subsidy, the cost of GMO corn would be the same as regular "organic" corn. That is the first part, the second part is the massive waste generation from GMO crop production. Of course this waste is transported to other places and not included in their calculations. (see Hog Farms of North Carolina)

Also, land is not, nor was it ever intended for the mass production of just one crop. See Oklahoma and all of its dust fields for an attestation to that. Land is supposed to be used for various crops in the form of crop rotation. One season you grow corn, the next you grow lettuce, during the winter crop C and D. If you do not follow this law of nature, all hell can break loose because you are disrupting the delicate balance of nature. As for feeding people in Africa? Well, if left unhindered they can grow their own food and survive, we just try to push it there so we can increase revenues at the previously mentioned big food "producers"

Also, the rest of the world, especially Europe and lots of Asia, despise the use of GMOs. Ever wonder why the people over there are nowhere near as fat as us? Or have low cancer rates...etc? anyway, again, it's your choice. At least take the opportunity to be informed, I will try to provide the most information that I can here.

I don't have any fancy studies or anything, but I can say that every european I know is generally much more active than my north american counterparts. It's a lifestyle thing, not a GMO thing.

I also don't understand how your crop rotation has anything to do with GMO's....My family runs a significantly large seed farm, I grew up in it and am connected to some of the largest seed farms in the country (Canada, but probably not that different than the US) and around here, crop rotation is a rule to everyone in the industry, not an option.

And again, what does higher crop yield have to do with subsidies? The gov't subsidizes them BECAUSE they produce more food, so they're motivating the producers to grow it as it's the cheapest way to get a decent food source to the most people. And the waste being sent to pig farms? Somethings got to feed the pigs, otherwise your bacon's gonna be hard to find.

The majority of corn and soy beans grown are used for industrial purposes. Be it ethanol production, cattle feeding, or corn based sugars. The fact that you even said the left overs are fed to the pigs proves you know nothing about the industry and causes me to highly discount anything you say about GMOs, I can make a study say anything. I can take rats that have cancer and breed them and use their off spring for a study about something I want show "causes" cancer. I tend not to believe 90% of what a study proves, just because you can not factor out the bias of the person who did the study.

Wikipedia is not trustworthy.

And those same organizations see nothing wrong with Aspartame and diet sodas. Go figure...

Dude, respond to my post. You threw a lot of words out there to look smart but so far they're pretty empty. You discuss the GM process sure, but that means nothing for or against GMO. Then you throw a bunch of agricultural lingo around that also mean nothing. So far looking pretty ignorant...

okay, with regards to the US government subsidies, well, if you take into account the cost of a GMO product at a local grocery store without the US government subsidy taken into account, well the cost of the GMO product is much cheaper than your typical "organic" product. Whereas if you did take into account the cost of US Government subsidies, the cost would be the same. Most people make the assumption that just because GMO products are cheaper that they also cost less to produce. As for crop yields...etc well, that is a different topic.

I do not have any sources for that one at the moment, but I have read many times that production is similar.

As for the crop rotation, that is something that anybody who grew up in a backyard should know about. Did your parents plant the onions and tomatoes in exactly the same spot each year? no. They always move things around because plants do not do as well when grown consistently in the same area because they deplete the source of certain minerals and nutrients. Then another crop is grown there which again will deplete the soil of a different nutrient. And when those crops biodegrade they leave some more nutrients in the soil which are suitable for the next crop.

Somebody mentioned industrial uses for GMO soy and corn. Yes, including feeding of animals. Everytime you buy a plastic container of Fage or Chobani Greek Yogurt you are getting milk from cows that were fed corn. Cows were not meant to eat corn, cows were meant to eat grass, for they have a 4 chamber stomach suited for that purpose. So these cows are not eating what they are supposed to eat and you get the result... It just doesn't make sense to me. I think the problem is that people believe in a new religion known as "science" which doesn't live up to the hype.

I'm not trying to look smart or impress anybody, I am just trying to defend the anti-GMO crowd and to hopefully give some useful information to a bunch of people who may be suffering from a disease or condition that is brought on by eating such food.

And if you really trust the EU and the US FDA...etc, I recommend that you actually read one of their scientific papers. Once inside, you will see that it is just lying with statistics.

Aspartame was not approved by the FDA for seven years because they found it to cause cancer in mice. Then when Reagan got elected he appointed a new head to the FDA and all of a sudden Aspartame was found to be "safe". Cancer is not the only side effect of consuming it, there is a plethora of other conditions associated with it and you can find them by going into the FDA's website and looking at the complaints, just google the term "fda complaints aspartame"

I used to drink diet coke as well, and I kept getting skeptical at the claims, so I decided to do some exhaustive research and I did not like what I found so I decided to stop drinking Diet anything. In fact right now I don't even drink sugar cane sweetened soda. The fact is that humans, whether you believe we were created or evolved over millions of years were not meant to consume as much sugar/sweeteners as we do today and that is why we all get sick so much. Yes, the Europeans walk more than we do, but if you add up the calories burned by their more active lifestyle it does not compensate for our extreme overweightness.

Even my far-left colleagues in other labs are ashamed of these ignorant attacks on GMOs. Usually it's the right that peddles anti-science bullshit.

I did not change my set of facts throughout this posting. The only facts presented by anybody in this article was me when I referenced an actual study claiming that GMO's need to be studied in more long term trials and that GMO's were found to be dangerous for rats in the specified study. Which btw, the rats are traceable to a specific strain and are used by studies throughout the world.

I do not know how to farm, I have never lived on a farm, like most city-dwellers. Not living on a farm is why most people don't know what real food looks like, tastes like, and how it is grown. If you are from a farming background, then surely you must have tried some tomatoes that were grown in a true organic way by yourself or your parents, and surely you must have tried some of those same tomatoes that were grown in a mass-produced way/fashion. If you cannot tell the difference, well, then I think you are probably eating it with too many other foods. I remember when I was little any food that my mom grew in our backyard tasted several times better than what we got from the grocery store. I have tried olive oil that was made by small-time olive tree growers in Greece on the island of Crete and I have tried many expensive bottles of olive oil from whole foods. The difference? Once you try the real thing you can't go back. I think the same is true for GMOs. Try McDonalds, get a hamburger without any condiments. Can you even eat it? It is disgusting. Now go buy an organic, grass-fed cut of meat and cook it in the same fashion, and tell me, can you eat that one? McDonalds is GMO, organic, grass-fed is the real thing, it tastes better because your body can sense the nutrients in the form of this thing called "taste"

The EU has not banned GMOs, the people simple reject them. The rest of the things you mentioned are all part of the GMO process. Just saying, I hope you read more about GMO's because it is a threat to your health.

motherearthnews.com:

So does the study close the case? Are GMOs dangerous? Predictably, industry-aligned scientists are questioning the study, but even longtime critics of GMOs, including Hansen [senior scientist, Consumers Union], have concerns. Hansen says that while the new study was longer and better designed than any of the industry GMO safety studies, the sample size — 10 males and 10 females per group — was too small to draw conclusions from.

If we're going to start looking at the shit this country shovels into its collective face, the genetic composition of the 3 vegetables the average hamplanet eats every year isnt really where we should start.

I try to eat meat once a week that I get from whole foods that has an animal welfare rating of 4 or more. It is too hard to find meat rated 5 or above. Actually there is this butcher in Astoria queens called Butcher Bar that has truly top notch meat that I sometimes go to instead of whole foods.

Then during the week I eat veggies from my CSA.

Ever since I cut the breads out and started following this diet I would lose weight without feeling hungry or pain. I got used to the no sugar ...etc and the weight just melted slowly but surely. Of course I can't patent this technique and i can't sell a pill for it. That is why you won't see this advertised on television or in magazines... BC there is no money to be made, which leads back to GMOs and why they are considered "safe" by top experts

By "pure organic" he means, read the labels on everything you buy, and just because it says on the produce "local" it doesn't mean that it is organic. And you have to check who certified the product as organic as well, the best is Oregon Tilth Organic.

Also, there are many local smaller grocery stores spread throughout the city that have organic food as well, but here you just have to ask them where they get their stuff from. If they can't answer your question, or if you see a "US Foods" or a "SYSCO" trucked parked outside of their place don't shop there and let them know why.

This isn't a fad anymore, this is going big, I mean when CitiField has a "Farm-to-table" night, you know things are going mainstream...

here's a forbes article discussing the flaws of another paper written by the same group: http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/09/24/does-genetically-…

I love this article (found it linked from the comments of that Forbes article)

(from 1999 though) http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/gm-food-banned-in-monsanto-can…

(GMO food is banned in a canteen at Monsanto)

lol

Remember, most GMO "safety" studies only lasted 90 days, this one lasted 2 years. Statistically significant or not, the rats fed GMO corn got cancer faster and more severe... that's enough for me

the forbes article is not convincing also because he says "if rats die from GMO's, then why aren't human beings dropping like flies?" Well guess what, we are dropping like flies. All I see is people taking medications for this, medications for that, girls I went to elementary school with (I am 33) already with breast cancer. I mean, wtf? Everybody "marches for the cure" but when is somebody gonna read the truth - found in these papers - and start doing something about it? We just have aholes who automatically dismiss GMO's as safe and make fun and look down on people like me who are anti-GMO. If you want to eat GMO, go ahead, but you can't say you weren't warned.

BTW, what do you think of the flu shot? Do you think it is effective and based on "science" If so... I can show you proof that it is a money maker with one sentence.

People given the flu shot got the flu at a rate of 1.2 % while people who were not given the flu shot got the flu at a rate of 2.7%. (See the Lancet study http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2811%297…)

And then they tell us that the flu shot is 60% (or whatever the math is) effective! Complete BS. (And that is the study that they publish... nobody knows how many studies didn't show that good numbers that they didn't publish)

A real, scientific study, which you cannot find anywhere on the flu shot would be: (1) Vaccinate 1,000 people (2) Expose control group to flu (3) Expose vaccinated group to flu (4) Gather results

oops... no scientist can do that. Ask your doctor if they know how effective the flu shot is the next time they just smile and tell you "oh, you must take the flu shot, it's good for you and totally safe!"

I was at a dinner party / cook out recently and I was talking to a friend there about organic food and I said the word 'GMO' and then the girl to my right, a lawyer turns and says to me "what's a GMO", then the girl sitting across from that is a doctor repeats her words asking the same question, and finally the 3rd girl, a private school teacher said the same thing. That is why I don't have any faith in Doctors... at least the 4th girl that was there that is a doctor as well said that she knows what a GMO is and that she watches Portlandia.

Then one time I took my mother to the ER because she was having flu like symptoms and just feeling real bad. The doctors prescribed antibiotics. So I asked the doctor, did you identify any specific virus from my mothers blood trst that you just gave her? She said no, we just give antibiotics to hopefully kill whatever virus she has... now that's what I call science!

Doctors don't know a thing about nutrition or any remedy that is cheap or free.

I bet you everybody reading this believes in one homeopathic (aka non-pharmaceutical) cure for the common cold... It is called "airborne" - you know, invented by a school teacher. It is a combination of herbs and other vitamins and minerals. So the next time you get sick, you can either take some airborne, or some robitussin. As for me? I don't get sick anymore.

I'm not a homosexual, but many homosexuals do take care of their health and what food they eat, and I think you have no class to lump me into a category just because I eat healthy. I bet you that you will start eating healthy organic food soon too, and you know why? Because you will want to impress a girl.

And antibiotics kills and destroys the entire balance of good and bad bacteria living in your gut. Surely you know that bacteria lives inside your intestines that has a symbiotic relationship with you, just as cows and other animals do as well. So antibiotics destroys that, so hmmm, I wonder what happens then? There is a reason why the expression "trust your gut" exists... Bc that balance is necessary. So if you take antibiotics, try to replenish that balance by eating food full off probiotics. That's pro, as in pro life, versus anti, which is anti life.

LOL @AstoriaMan he called you a homosexual because you told a story about being at a dinner party.

Bringing up airborne was an A+ idea. The company that settled a bunch of lawsuits for false advertising when they had no credible evidence that their product reduced one's chances of contracting a cold. That'll really bolster your argument.

Whatever. Maybe I have an actual life and that is why I am not responding so quickly.

I say this, I know a lot of investment bankers suffer from acid-reflux, heartburn, and/or ulcers. The next time you get that sharp pain in your stomach, instead of reaching for the tums or seltzer water, take 16 ounces of water and dilute 2 teaspoons of organic apple cider vinegar and drink it. Just make sure that you shake the bottle first and buy the kind that has the "mother" as in "mother culture" in it.

Then maybe you will start believing... in natural food, cures and remedies.

Note: you can even find organic apple cider vinegar in Chinese supermarkets. It is all over the city in supermarkets.

As for the flu shot, I am simply pointing out that statistics without logic are flawed. Sure, 2.7% vs 1.2% shows a statistical significance with a confidence interval of blah blah blah, but the truth is that the flu shot did not make a difference in the lives of at least 97% of the people who took the shot. (In the studied groups of course).

I have a friend that works in clinical research and if his research shows that a certain drug does not benefit people , he won't get anymore funding. So he has to play with the numbers and to massage then to show a benefit. And if he doesn't do that, he has to go work at whole foods making 15$ per hour move in with his parents and continue to pay off his student loans at a super slow pace. So don't you think that there is a has exhibited by him to show that drugs are good for you, whether it is voluntary or involuntary?

I mostly like/believe in the European vaccination schedule. (Northern European, Italian, French - not English) Here in the USA we give kids about uh, say 27 vaccines before they turn 6, and another 20 or so before they turn 18. (see http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/)

Our European counterparts such as the Norwegians take only 15 (see http://www.fhi.no/artikler/?id=90915) and they make it clear that all vaccines are not required or compulsory. Here in the United States they scare you into thinking you are going to get paralyzed from Polio if you don't take the shots... brought to you by Merck/Pfizer/Glaxosmithkline...etc

Again, for the flu shot, do you remember the Swine flu aka H1N1? Remember how they were scaring the crap out of us that we are all going to die if we don't get vaccinated as soon as a vaccine is available? Then one person got it and died, and buried at the bottom of the article was the tiny little detail that the guy already had gout.

So with regards to vaccines, I think they are useful/helpful, but only if they don't contain so many chemicals. There are ways to make them clean/cleaner, but that drives up the cost. Also, a small child's body cannot successfully detox all of the heavy metals (aka heavy metals acting as preservatives) that are contained in vaccines and that is what results in them getting sick, which leads to worse ailments. That is also why many parents claim that their children were damaged with an autism spectrum disorder, seizure, paralysis, among other things - just see the warnings on a vaccine to know... etc from combination vaccines such as MMR. An older child or adult can successfully handle such a vaccine, but a small child or infant can only handle one vaccine at a time.

And most importantly, I think that before anybody takes a vaccine, they should read the insert, and take note that there is a special court in the United States for compensating victims of adverse reactions caused by vaccines, and the amount of money which that court pays out each year to victims should be transparent. But most people don't read the inserts, and don't know the risks associated with a vaccine, and the doctor just smiles and says they are completely safe.

And for GMO's, I don't think they should be outlawed no more than McDonalds should be outlawed. If people want to eat them fine, but I think labeling them is a fair request. And the US government should stop subsidizing them as well, so the true cost of GMO's would become transparent to the public.

As for starving kids in Africa, I don't think when you give money to a charity that they go ahead and ship over trucks full of grain, I think they use a lot of that money for "vaccines" and medicine that is completely unecessary in a plot to try to gain future business in those countries. Remember Haiti? They were trying to push anti-depressants on those people because they were suffering from "depression" after the earthquake. Let me tell you something, the only people in the world suffering from depression are Americans because we have too much of what we want. Those people down there don't need anti-depressants, they deal with things the way a human being is supposed to - get sad for a while, then pick up and rebuild your life.

And natural remedies/cures only work if you look at a persons entire lifestyle, which is why it is called "holistic healing". If you have too much stomach acid, drinking some apple cider vinegar with water will offer you some temporary relief, but you still have to stop living a stressful lifestyle, get more sleep, stop eating too much meat...etc. So yes, natural cures work, but only if you know how to use them.

Antidepressants are a whole other story, they drive people into insanity and cause them to have and act out violent thoughts, including suicide. Again, just read the earning label.

And most mass murderers were on them...

And Haiti is not in Africa

Sorry to hear you have Gout, try the Paleo diet, it might help your body with the symptoms. (Caveman diet) just think 'would a caveman eat this' before you pick any food. The logic is that if we evolved over millions of years eating diet a, and all of a sudden we started eating diet b, our bodies have not had enough time to evolve into that new diet.