Germany vs France- where to study MSF and work?
Hi everyone,
I don't speak French or German, and I just want to get a sense of direction as to which country is friendlier when it comes to issuing working Visa and hiring foreigners, so I can decide which country I am going to focus when I start applying.
I am looking to accomplish 2 transitions at a time by doing the MSF:
a) Career path change. This is my second busy season at big4 accounting firm, and I wish to switch to corporate finance at the next stage of my career.
b) Location change. I plan to stay and work in Europe after doing the MSF (I am a Taiwanese citizen).
So if I really want to stay and work in the area of corporate finance, which country would you recommend and why?
Also, when I look at FT ranking, not many German schools appear on the radar except for Frankfurt School of Finance & Management. But I don't suppose that means they are not as good as French ones, such as HEC and EDHEC? After all German capital market is huge as well. Would somebody please shed some light on which schools in Germany offers MSFs that are very reputable in Germany? Thank you very much for your time and efforts.
On a final note, I am planning to start learning one of the 2 languages very soon. This is one of the reasons why I want to first get an idea which one is the better investment of my time. Or do you think there's no need for learning the language to increase the likelihood of employment?
Any thought on the topics are very welcome.
Definitely start learning (seriously) one of those 2 languages, it will massively increase your employment opps.
Also, I would pick Germany. Plenty of good schools there.
Without being very proficient (almost native) in the local language, you'll have a very difficult time to get jobs in corporate finance. If you apply to front office roles (and it sounds like this), your employer expects you to be able to liaise with clients in their native language. So get ready that not only you'll need to study hard to end up top of your class, it will be worth nothing if you can't speak the language...
Now my opinion on which country is more friendly towards foreigners, I'd say probably Germany. The French system is quite elitist (Grande Ecole degree holders hold most of the top management positions) and language skills are extremely important. Now Germany is not much better but at least the university landscape is a bit more versatile.
German schools with good programs and placement: WHU, EBS, Mannheim, LMU Munich, Frankfurt University, Cologne University, Frankfurt School of Finance (not scientifically ranked but should be a fair representation).
Now all that being said, maybe give some thought to the UK where at least the language barrier might not be as high...
pm me if you want to chat german schools. Nevertheless I agree with above (in all aspects of post), stick to UK if youre not fluent in german/french.
At a german target, PM me if you have any questions.
Most of the work done is in English but yea German is a prerequisite. But if you bring some special to the table (Mandarin/Russian speaker) you can land an internship at a top bank/boutique.
Recommending WHU or Mannheim over INSEAD or HEC? Seriously? It's so ridiculous that I suspect the recommendations in this thread are coming from German users who're naturally biased towards 'their' schools (their appearently good knowledge of the matter supports that hypothesis) - Don't listen to them. Don't get me wrong, those German schools mentioned sure are good and may get you a foot in the door within Germany (however, that'll be true for almost any German school and will depend mostly on your language skills), but on an international scale they don't compare in any way to the French schools.
Btw, if you're interested in that region, you may also take a look at Switzerland. They have good schools as well, eg IMD (I'd say in between Germany and France), and both languages are spoken in the country.
INSEAD or HEC are incredible institutions which rank among the highest in Europe/the World. However, I didn't see anyone recommend any German school over them. I feel that where the best universities are is not really the question. Alek-Hsu's question is based on job prosects in countries and a university choice connected to it. I hope everybody can agree that attending university in a country where you don't speak the language in order to enter the job market in a different country in which you don't know the language either is a very risky strategy. In both France and Germany, great language skills are a necessity for job search and I think that should be taken into account. You simply will have such a better chance to learn German/French when you are surrounded every day by native German/French speakers... The choice of university follows thereafter I guess.
The link by entertainmentquant is actually quite interesting, thanks for that.
I think saying no German school is worth attending is a bit extreme. As someone who is at WHU, I would say it's a very solid choice. It just doesn't get much love because the finance alumni is not very spread (most people don't want to do finance here). I can confirm CS, DB, JPM, PIMCO did on campus interviews and know classmates who were invited to GS/MS/etc. London
I'm an American from a BigTen school, and I studied at Frankfurt University (Goethe Uni) from 2010-2011. Every global bank has a presence in Frankfurt, and I actually interviewed at UBS, Citi, Baird, and Commerzbank- all for investment banking internships. The opportunities are definitely there. Every bank also recruits hard on campus (Goldman to Deutsche Bank). Germans love foreigners- aside from Turks and North Africans- and you will get interviews, but you WILL need to speak the language. Some of my interviews were conducted entirely in German. EuroLocust has a really good handle on the best schools to attend. I would stay in Frankfurt to be closer to all of the banks and further increase your chances of interviews. Best of luck... My time in Germany was the best of my life.
Sent you a PM.
Maybe this helps http://tinyurl.com/n2baqby
also (but it is in German) http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/135700/wie-die-absolventen-einzelner-hochschulen-den-deutschen-ma-arbeitsmarkt-unter-sich-aufteilen/
Hi everyone,
First of all, thank you for your contribution.
EuroFocust, thank you for clarifying the subject of the thread for me. This is exactly what I was asking.
So I guess I need to start learning German now. Admittedly, this is quite a risky strategy, but I guess it's still a viable path?
As a person who will be facing your dilemma soon, I would say that German is much easier to learn. Speaking of quality and reputation, however, I have not researched much, but the French options available seem to be more reputable indeed. I have no idea how they weigh in terms of quality though.
I'm currently in your position and am thinking of applying to Mannheim and Goethe. Their biggest selling points to me are:
I'm also applying to St Gallen in Switzerland. Tuition is very reasonable and its a great school from what I hear.
By the way, I am facing this dilemma too, I would raise the issue of particular case:
ESSEC GE program
ESCP GE program
EBS, Msc.Finance
any idea about those school?
My background: I am Chinese student, don't speak French or German, with five months China PE internships and willing to work in PE in Europe
...that will be a clear differentiator in the recruiting process given the number of people remotely willing to do the job.
All jokes aside, you can't work in thou try unless you are fluent in the language, so go with whatever has the best reputation in china
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