How to deal with getting fired?
Greetings,
I used to work for a real estate finance company that mainly offered third party services to banks doing real estate loan securitization. As I'm sure you all know, that market is currently tanking, and today I was fired, although it is unclear whether my firing was linked to the state of the market not. They told me that they would give me written and verbal recommendations. I recently passed level 1 of the CFA, and one of the things my bosses told me was that they did not feel I was interested in real estate (which is true).
My question is:
How do I deal with this when applying for new jobs? I would like to work in ER/AM, but it is kind of hard to imagine ER/AM firms hiring someone who was fired from his last job when they have so many qualified applicants from which to choose. What should I say when asked about why I stopped working at my last firm? How much harder is this likely to make my search for an ER/AM job? Any input from people who actually do hiring in those areas would be invaluable to me.
Lastly, have any of you personally succeeded in getting a good job you desired after being fired previously?
Thanks for your help.
First, i've never been fired but that's besides the point.
Second, sorry that you were fired. That sucks.
Third, I would ask your old firm if you can stay employed without pay so that it looks like you are still employed with them as you lateral to another firm. [I know of this happening with a friend who worked for a HF a few years back before his mba, he said he wasn't compensated fairly, and they said he's fired but he can still say he's employed so that his resume looks continuous)
My advice is to do this, and good luck with your search.
p.s.- Out your firm
It may be too late, but you really should ask to find out the "official" reason. Request an "exit interview." Because interviewers will ask you the reason. And it won't go over well to say "I don't know" or "I never asked them".
On the bright side, it doesn't sound like you were fired for "cause." People who are fired for cause don't generally get recommendations (I'm assuming that they meant what they said when they offered recommendations).
Never heard of the employed-without-pay thing. I cannot imagine taking a newly fired employee, allowing him access to the building and resources, and not paying him. That's HR suicide.
Sorry that you're going through this - it must feel like a kick in the face. Good luck and keep going.
an add-on question, when people get laid off, is it safe to lie that he quit instead of fired?
well i got "fired" / "let go" from the first PE firm I worked for 6-7 months after I started with little to no explanation (in boston). even worse, they wanted me to sign a release that they had no fault / wrong doing, etc. and they were going to pay me $10k. I rejected the 10k (joke) because if I sign that piece of paper then I have no leverage, and out of principal what they did to me was completely wrong. i was not going to sign something saying that i agreed with what they were doing when they gave little valid explanation / warning.
I managed to get another PE job in NYC and I've been here doing great for 2 years. (i worked for 2 years in ibanking with a guy that was at the NYC PE shop and he vouched for me that i work my ass off).
when it happens you feel like you're career is screwed, but if you are up front/honest and become an interview guru you can turn the situation around.
turns out, about 6 months after i left, a bunch of the large investments headed toward bankruptcy, the partners had a falling out and the investmenst professionals were basically cut in half. (from i think around 16-17 to 8)...interesting that i was cut right before all of that went down. maybe they decided the easiest way to get rid of thier employees was LIFO.
overall, not cool.
NYChimp, thanks for the advice. What did you say in your interviews about the termination of your previous employment?
Interviewing after getting Fired/ Discharged (Originally Posted: 04/30/2013)
I was a buyside analyst and got fired/ discharged after a dispute with a broker/ sales coverage rep where I basically got pissed and blew up on him.
Any thoughts on how to navigate this in an interview situation? Many have said stuff like this happens all the time on the Street.
Do I have to worry about future background checks or references?
Any advice on how to approach an interview situation and deal with this would be much much much appreciated as I am shting bricks.
Don't mention it at all. It's a total no no if you're applying to any firm that you can't discipline yourself and not talk shit back to your managers.
I should be afraid if I were you... :( Chances are, most HR will do a reference check and call your previous employer's HR. And if you are applying for another buyside position (I'm assuming that you are), the chances of that happening is roughly 110%.
Man, I really hope you can find another gig. Everyone deserves another chance. Too bad most employers are narrow minded and act like they are a better person for not screwing up while being on the clock - fuck them.
Why take someone who has screwed up when you could take someone else who hasn't?
As a completely anecdotal bit of encouragement, I know someone who got a pre-MBA MBB consulting gig shortly after getting fired from her first post-college job.
The world probably won't end, OP.
Wait...you're the buyside analyst and got fired for yelling at a broker who I'm presuming doesn't even work for your company??? That's a bunch of bullshit. I thought the difference between buyside and sellside was who gets to say "fuck you" when...
There's a difference between a politically-said fuck you and losing your cool.
This was my first thought when I read it. I am generally respectful and appreciative of my sales coverage but when/if they are being obnoxious I'm not afraid to be rude. What did you possibly do and how did it get back to your employer? The salesperson tattled on you for getting his feelings hurt? I can't think of anything I could do our sales coverage that would get me fired from my job but not sent to prison too. Please elaborate.
Inevitably this will come up. Assuming your prospective new firm knows someone where you got iced they'll get the low down.
Shit happens though. I was fired from BB BO and ended off much better
Have your story to a t and be vague. Someone will give you another chance.
Something is fishy about this story. Doubt this is the full story, just the "pity" version.
Got Let Go (aka fired) (Originally Posted: 10/13/2014)
Hello WSO, I posted once but without reply.
I worked at a small family office as one of three full time employees and was fresh out of college. I've worked there for about 2 years though I also was still in school (though still able to work 50+ hours a week). However, because of personal reasons as well as general abrasion from my boss (and his lack of belief in any sort of financial work which led the fund to go from massive returns to negative returns in 3 months), my work suffered and I was just let go.
I've reached out to my network and started applying and going to recruiting agencies and the what not. Do you guys have any tips? How fucked am I?
have you approached them about being able to say it was mutual decision or you left on your own accord rather than having to tell future employers that you were fired. It will be tough explaining that reasoning above to someone else and have them want to hire you where because you disagreed with something it influenced your work so dramatically you had to be fired
They've sort of gone far enough (we haven't discussed in full since my ex-boss was out of town) to allow me to keep "present" on my resume.
alright then you should be fine just get a good answer as to why you want to leave your company without ratting them out
If you worked at a bigger bank/firm with a separate HR group, you would've been safe in that a) most big firms nowadays only reveal your dates of employment and your title and b) more importantly, can't reveal why you left.
Since this is a family office, you need to:
1.) Make sure your boss/reference says you got laid off or as above, lets you use "Present" on your resume. Seems like you got this covered. 2.) Shoot your resume out everywhere, especially to recruiters
Good luck.
Fired From Job/How to Explain What Happened In Interviews, Please Help! (Originally Posted: 02/28/2011)
So I was fired from an ER position in November for a violation of company policy. I worked there for 6 months and accomplished three very solid research reports. I recently interviewed with a boutique investment bank and the interview went well until I was asked why I dont work at my previous job.
I told the associate exactly what happened and the company rule that I broke. I explained how I wasn't aware of the rule and have learned alot from the mistake. Additionally, I was working with no contract and have not taken the Series 7 or 6 so I have no U4. However, I received an email from the firm saying that their compliance officer could not get comfortable with the issue I had at my previous job and would not interview me further.
What should I do? One option is to just keep telling the whole truth about what happened and hopefully some companies will look past it. Another is to just say that I was laid off. Since I was in reorganized equities this would be very believeable as the default rate has gone to 2007 lows. Thanks in advance.
-VT400
what was the rule?
I traded a stock in my PA that they claimed I was doing research on at the time.
Say you were laid off. I believe if they call your previous firm, the firm can only confirm dates of employment, not the circumstances surrounding you being laid off.
ok SAC, thanks for the advice. Thats what I plan on doing in future interviews.
They did background checks for bschool and I am pretty sure all the former employers can disclose are salary, title, and dates of employment. Plus they do not want to say too much anyway in fear of getting sued.
TB, im not worried about a background check as my record would come up clean. I did not break any law, just violated a company policy. If its true that former employers can only disclose salary, title, and dates of employment than I plan on saying I was laid off.
Oh sorry I misunderstood there, but I think you are in the clear with saying you were laid off. Good Luck
Just got fired. Now what to do? (Originally Posted: 09/29/2014)
I got fired from the workplace after couple months of working. After I got hired, the interviewer later told me that every interviewer wanted to hire me before anyone else, but I was only allowed to work on translation from one language to the other after I got hired. The other people, who was hired at the same time with less impressive resume, on the other hand, had so much opportunities to work on different projects. I thought it was not fair so I told my managers that I wanted to be involved in a variety of projects, but they ignored my opinion. I came a little stronger, and finally they fired me. Yeah, I admit that I came a little aggressive...
I am searching for jobs now, and I am soo stressed out and upset. Is this end of the world? Does everyone face such obstacles once in their life time? For those who went through similar experiences, do you have any advice how I can get out of this miserable time?
Many thanks!
I haven't personally been fired, but I have known others who have been. It is definitely not the end of the world. Keep your head up pal. This kind of stuff happens to the best of us. Sounds like the work environment was pretty poor too, if you got fired for expressing yourself.
Calm down. Here's what you have to check up on:
1.) Can you get a positive reference from anyone from your previous company? A positive one from a co-worker can work well if your boss says no. 2.) Most big firms can only confirm a) dates of your employment, b) your title, and c) if you're eligible for re-hire. The last point may be tricky to navigate, but it's not a dealbreaker. 3.) Update your resume, shoot it out everywhere, and reach back out to your contacts/continue networking. 4.) Find something in the meantime to take up your time while you apply for jobs. Go hard at the gym, pursue some new hobbies/interests, etc.
Thanks guys I actually heard from my colleague that my dept. is going through enormous restructuring. I was not the only one to be fired but there were couple ahead of me, and there will be much more. I worked for one of the Big 4, and I've never heard any first yr workers getting fired in Accounting industry... since this is not IB...
Your English gives me the impression you are an international student or a foreigner. Is there a chance the way you asked was not culturally appropriate?
The above suggestions are good but I think it will help you far more in the long term to learn how to be a good fit.
IMO comparing your colleagues' opportunities the way you did in your post just seems unprofessional.
FIRED - your advice needed (Originally Posted: 01/06/2012)
Hi all - I entered a boutique ibank as an analyst mid of last year and my company was in serious sh*t because of the Euro crisis. They then stopped and fired their entire S&T division, and now I am their last victim.... got my notice last month.
My boss assured me they didn't let me go because of my performance. The reasons I was given: 1. Budget constraints 2. I'm the most junior guy in the team and the least "painful" to let go since they have the least invested in me
Therefore i'm currently looking for another fresh IBD Analyst (boutique) or Investment Analyst at a PE, and obviously recruiters ask why I left my last job.
Should I tell them the truth? Or as a way to avoid any suspicions that I was fired because of my performance should I make up an excuse (ie the work culture wasn't good). All this aside, is there ever a time when you should lie about why you are no longer with your former job?
Be nice to this recently unemployed guy... Those who are/have been in my position are welcome to share!
GWB
Def tell the truth, try to get references.
Tell them the truth. Let go because of budget constraints, though your performance was high quality. Offer references to back this up.
Always tell the truth, never good to lie.
PMd you
Living and working in Singapore
Everyone is firing. People realize the market sucks and it won't be a mark against you.
FYI, I'm in the same boat.
Get a letter of reference...
You will be fine, unless you lie and they find out.
I was in the same situation three years back post Lehman - and to this day I am honest about it. Maybe it hurts my chances, but with a lot of people it is something they don't count against you because the whole industry was cutting, and my bank more so.
First piece of advice, file your unemployment claim immediately.
Also stop speaking like a leprechaun (referring to the typo in the thread topic). But seriously I'm not in a very different boat. If they made cuts all the way down the poll, meet up with a VP with whom you worked directly and who also got the axe and see if he will give you a rec. If you were at least a likable guy and you worked hard he probably wouldn't hesitate to throw you a referral as well if he hearss about an opening at the analyst level. I did this recently and my VP gave me some great advice which I now bequeath to you. He said "JulianWells, you aren't the guy from Wharton who was doing 2 years in GS TMT when he got laid off. Cast a wide net, get yourself in front of as many people as possible and when somebody does hire you, make everybody like you and work your ass off."
Maybe you were that guy from Wharton and you were at GS. If so just flip your resume out and you'll be fine. Either way, good luck man. Hope everything works out.
tell the truth, get references, from looks of it on some boards boutiques are looking, what city are you in?
Tell the truth definitely. I'm in the same boat as well. Just got my notice yesterday.
For those of you who got notices...
Are you in a structured program? Boutiques, BBs?
Ah, so they use LIFO on their employees. Makes perfect sense..
I prefer firing based on the "Specific Identification" cost method.
sorry to hear, dude. also, what a shitty firm that you work at to be firing people left and right. This thread is a good reminder of why working for a more prestigious employer is important. I couldn't imagine GS or MS getting rid of their entire S&T guys on top of firing junior guys in IBD left and right. In short, this firm is really fucked up.
Prestige has nothing to do with layoffs nowadays; everyone does it.
Were you on the street in 2008/2009? Were you on a trading floor in 2008 at any major bank? You have no idea what you are talking about it. It has nothing to do with the firm or prestige. The nature of the business is over-hire and over-fire and all the your so called "top frims" do it.
tell the truth as it is not because of your performance it's the firm's shitty performance. As long as it's not with cause for your termination recruiters won't count it against you. I am not sure about IBD, but from my experience in S&T juniors and people with a weak book gets axed first.
You were not fired. You were laid off. There is a big difference. Being laid off is a part of life, say the truth say you were killing it but the bank's traders blew up shit.
You sure it wasn't your fault at all? http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/slacking-as-a-new-hire-ib-analyst
Anyways, definitely tell the truth. You don't want to make things worse.
And feel free to PM me. Had a family member go through a similar situation.
Good luck!
LOL. looking at that thread, I think OP was in danger of getting fired from the moment he started his job... the workflow at his firm must have sucked, and it is really no fault of OP that shit like this happens. I mean, if that firm doesn't have work for him to do, then it is a pretty good sign that he's about to be laid off sooner or later...
Almost all the FT class hired in 2007 in S&T for Bear Stearns had their offers rescinded. They didn't even get a chance to step on the floor before being axed. This firm at least gave him a couple of months on his resume...another way to look at it.
I'm actually curious what kind of person this guy/girl is to have such a screen handle.
He's clearly retarded
You were laid off, not fired. No big deal. Just be honest and upfront when interviewing.
Why the hell would you say you were bad at your job when you weren't? What on earth makes you think I or anyone else would want to work with someone like that? Believe me, "culture" is not an excuse. I've been several places I absolutely despised, but I still killed it and ranked at the top of my class.
Dude, this thread is quite old :)
how to approach interviews when fired from previous job (Originally Posted: 08/17/2013)
.
You do know it is fairly easy for them to verify your previous employment? Either their HR can directly verify or they could use an outside agency to do some digging. Sounds like you f*d yourself...
HR confirmed they would not disclose the reason why I left. like i said... I worked hard and did decent work while I was there. I feel like they knew I wasn't committed to staying so they found a reason to fire me.
Sounds like me. Now I'm screwed for b-school apps. Note: Unless you're in banking, never ask your boss for a recommendation!
Getting fired (Originally Posted: 07/10/2011)
Any advice on what to do / how to behave once getting fired in IB?
I found some old threads with firing stories. It looks like many folks were caught by surprise. In reality though, especially in banking, that is fairly common. So if one day that happens to me (touch wood), wanna be prepared - so any suggestions how to behave? Negotiate bonus (possible at all?), negotiate gardening leave, ask for recommendations, thank for cooperation, ask for..., etc?
Very interesting topic--always something that I've wondered.
BUMP
Read Monkey business. I think when your MD or HR tells you something like: "hey xxx, do you have a minute? can you pop by my office. we need to talk", you should just say no.
get back to your desk. delete all your mail, web history etc and get your private shit out of the drawers and get ready.
It'll be really funny if you do all that and it turns out they wanted to promote you.
this happened to me but instead of getting fired i got my bonus number
This is exactly what I did.
Can't IT check your deleted emails/web history?
Make sure you find a way to smuggle out all of the contact information (phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc.) you are going to need.
This is a scary thought
Thanks for opinions, but any more tangible advice on what one can/should ask for while being fired would be appreciated. Specifically things I have already referred to: 1) Can I negotiate bonus (assuming I'm getting fired during the year)? 2) Can I negotiate longer gardening leave? 3) Can I negotiate some sort of other compensation (doubt)? 4) Should I ask for recommendations/referrals? 5) Should I say anything else / ask for anything else?
A few things...
If you are signing any sort of General Release, then definitely counter whatever money/benefits they are offering you and ask for more. Depending on what clauses are in the General Release you should negotiate for money. If the money is paid in the form of a salary, (as opposed to a lump sum bonus-style), then you will have to wait that period of time before claiming unemployment benefits.
A lot of times, they'll just call from a conference room. If you see a Conf room ID pop up on your phone, do all of the aforementioned.
I would say if anything, keep an updated resume handy and make sure someone (preferably a superior) can give you a good rec. regardless. Nowadays, banks seem to be laying off and re-hiring almost simultaneously. Most places know that if you get laid-off, it's not always because you were a bottom performer.
deleting emails doesn't work anymore. All emails in financial institutions are archived in the backend. haha
How hard is it really to land something else after getting laid off? Had a friend get laid off at BAML and literally interviewed a month or so after and eventually landed a gig at a top MM bank. He says it was the best thing to happen to him as far as hours/culture go.
Does this happen often?
Tan - perfect! Thanks a lot - exactly the advice I was looking for.
constantly have all the documents you ever worked on/needed uploaded to google docs.
i'm getting fired. what do i do? (Originally Posted: 11/06/2011)
Its that season in the banking world....firing season.... I know its going to happen (FO S&T job). Everything points to it ( behavior etc...). they still need me for now cause if I left they would not be really functional. . I'm pretty sure this will happen anywhere from 2 weeks from now to a day before bonuses are paid out - I dont really care, i hated it anyway...completely disgusting atmosphere, and now i've grown comfortable with the idea
What would you do? Apply elsewhere?
I'm thinking of applying and perhaps even getting hired elsewhere...but i'd have to tell them I cant start before mid Jan....so that if i don't get whacked (slim chance) , i'll politely renege and excuse myself for inconveniencing them and continue chasing more bonunses at my current firm. Problem i see is that if i do get fired, what would I tell my "new employer"? this blows,,,,
BP
the industry is a smash and grab buddy. if you were in it you'd know. If you can stay you stay, period.
im asking if i should start looking around right away, and if there are any pitfalls to this....
how long have you been in the position?
Tis' the season. I know that feeling (with the exception, I'm the reason why some are going bye-byes). I just haven't showed up to work In the past couple of days since everyone has been getting whacked. The underperformers really HAVE TO GO. Remember kid MONEY DOESN'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS.
BP - is this a BB or prop shop? Also second the question of how long you've been there. Thanks.
If you're certain about getting fired, start looking for a job you can see yourself doing and quit as soon as possible. It's better to leave with your head (slightly) up than getting canned. If you do get fired soon, be aware that it WILL be a conversation topic with future recruiters. They always asked about previous employment. Good luck.
as they say, easier to get a job when you have a job no idea how experienced S&T hiring works though
Start looking now so that you'll land something on time. If they fire you, you get severance and you'll have a new gig on top. Dunno if some firms have a clause where severance is only partial if you find something earlier than a certain period or not, but yeah - easier to find and land something while you're still employed. So start making some calls.
almost 2 years...not very long
This doesn't make sense. Yes, it is "that season" on the Street but what's going on is massive headcount reduction. If you're getting fired, it's not because they're bringing in someone to replace you.
what company is this?
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