Going Back to School... Is it Worth it?
Hey there WSO community,
Currently 3 years out of school. Can best be described as a "senior analyst" with a large CRE private equity shop in an asset management (with some underwriting/acquisition work) role. However, I'm looking to move into more of a development or acquisitions role, either with a REIT or mid-size real estate PE shop.
Reasons why I'm considering leaving my current role:
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Many of my managers/mentors were 'let go' in 2020. The team is now fundamentally different, and options for growth seem limited (although they are basically promising me an associate-level promotion at the end of 2021). Associates can get stuck in that role for 5-6 years and it is completely dependent upon whatever the funds are doing at that immediate point in time. Additionally, I do not like who is now in charge of our team and they have zero vision for the future.
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Work/life balance sucks. Management has completely unrealistic expectations for turnaround times and workflow processes. Because so many were 'let go' during the year, we are definitely understaffed and there is no long-term outlook to hire new, junior folks. Frustrating to say the least. It just feels like a revolving door of people since I got here. Not really a place I'm looking to invest the next ~10 years of my life.
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Pay is good but not incredible. Think right around 6 figures (and based in Dallas). And bonus structure is lackluster. My hourly pay makes me sad when I do the math (lol). I get depressed thinking about friends of mine who are getting paid a good bit more than me and doing what seems to be half the work...
All this being said, I have recently been accepted into the following programs:
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SMU MBA (decent $)
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TCU MBA (full tuition)
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UNC MBA (no $)
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Columbia MSRED (no $)
Ultimately, I do believe I want to end up/stay in Dallas long-term. I love it here, and all of my friends and family are here as well. Would love to get the CRE community's thoughts (good and bad). Does it make sense to pay full price for a Kenan-Flagler MBA if I can go to an MBA program in DFW for much less ($)? The Columbia program intrigues me a lot, but I fear a masters in real estate development is too specific and not as well-known as an MBA. Furthermore, I suspect all of the opportunities in that program are NYC-focused, given the location and alumni network. For me, grad school is now or never. If I don't go now, I'll just look to get a new job. However, I do think grad school can help me take this next step in my career (and "check another box" on the resume, if you will).
Please feel free to spout your thoughts below... open to all helpful commentary (and even some "monkey shit" too).
Thanks!
Hey! When did you hear back from Columbia?
My circumstance was unique, but I believe folks should be hearing back today/tomorrow.
As has been mentioned, RE tends to be regional so I would focus on SMU and TCU. You'll be a competitive candidate coming out of any program given your experience. If I were you, I'd attempt to leverage a bit more from SMU given your TCU full ride. Can't go wrong with either choice here.
RE is definitely regional; however, there is a large cohort of Tar Heels in Dallas (and across the country for that matter). I think I could get back to TX if I really wanted to - it'll just take some real legwork on my part to network. The Kenan-Flagler RE program speaks for itself, I'm just not thrilled at the idea of paying "sticker": ~$180k (all in). TCU is interesting but the employment stats are not very impressive (almost the same as what I make now for the 2-year grads) and the real estate emphases is only 2-3 courses. Obviously the big pull there is that it would be free! Hard to totally pass up.
Also - SMU is already aware of the TCU full ride.
A free MBA that doesn't get you the job you want is just two years of lost wages (and the fun MBA times, but ignoring that). There is a reason people are willing to pay top dollar for the top MBAs, because they place top jobs. I paid full tuition at a top 15 MBA and my post-tax, post-loan income is still well above my post-tax income pre-MBA (I was working construction management), and that's not saying anything about the long-term increase in earning potential. The MBA can be very useful if you know why you're getting it, but too many people think it's just a band-aid, "oh I'll get an MBA and everything will be good", and it doesn't quite work that way.
Based on the info you provided, I'd recommend UNC, it's a top-notch RE MBA and I'm sure you can network to find work back in Texas. I have MBA friends that found work in Texas from my program, and we're also a coastal program. PM me if you want to talk more about it.
For the MBA, UNC-KF is the strongest program out of the ones you mentioned: no question. However, does the incremental benefit of the UNC MBA justify the incremental cost of $180K in tuition + $>200K (assumed) in lost wages? That's a question I'll let you decipher internally. The decision would be much more clear if it were a Harvard/Wharton/Stanford/Columbia/Northwestern/UChicago. Not to knock UNC-KF at all, but more of an equivocal answer.
Thanks, this is useful. The Columbia MSRED is quite expensive (even though it is a one-year program). Their website ballparks the total cost at ~$140k. That's roughly $40k less than UNC would be, but again it's only a one-year program vs UNC's two year program. SMU would be about $80k all in, just FYI.
If you can land an associate role and do the mba part time in town that'd be the best from a career advancement perspective. You'd pick up 2 years of work experience. I think your as qualified for an associate role now as you would be coming out of a full-time mba program.
Given your strong work experience in CRE already, I think you will find a MSRED quite disappointing and a waste of money. You won't learn anything useful, the brand name is helpful in NYC but I think your work experience is what will get you hired at this point, not the MSRED, and you can't learn development in a classroom. Development is ultimately project management. There's nothing a classroom can teach you unless it's basic terms such as FAR. Honestly I don't think school is going to help you much (an M7 might if you apply to firms that love prestige). If you do want to go back to school at one of the options you named, then I'd suggested UNC because of the brand recognition or one of the local bschools if they are well respected in your area, but ultimately I think your work experience trumps everything else. I don't see why you wouldn't be qualified going straight to a developer or some other RE investment shop working in acquisitions/investments rather than going back to school.
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I have always had the mindset of getting to where you want to be with as little education as possible. Graduate degrees can be a nice feather in the cap and are good for networking but the lost income, lost promotions and added debt are a tremendous financial swing that should be weighed, especially in real estate which is not as much of a prestige/pedigree driven industry. If not having an MBA will hold you back from advancing then that would be the main reason to get it but if you can have the career trajectory you want without the degree that would be the preferred option. In my mind it would need to add a material boost to my earnings power or check a big life goal box because it is probably about a half million dollar degree when its all said and done.
My recommendation would be to stay until you make associate and use the next year to network hard. If you set up 1 call or meeting per week then you would probably be able to build a better network than through the MBA.
As far as school selection, I have always heard that unless you're going to H/S/W then its better to go to the best school in your region for networking reasons.
If the above is important to you, then I think it's just a debate between SMU and TCU. Staying in market will maximize ability to network, intern, and well go direct to work. I agree with the above about leveraging the TCU offer to get to SMU. For Texas (and certainly Dallas), both are great. I think SMU may "edge" TCU but I kinda doubt it's a big enough deal to overlook a free ride to TCU. Either way, you will do fine.
I think your rationale for leaving is reasonable, and your overall plan, well thought out. Plus, a free ride for an MBA at a legit regional powerhouse program, you cannot pass that up (or decent $ to probably the top local private school).
By and large school is not worth it unless you are trying to get out of your industry (you're not), your job requires it (RE generally does not), or you got in H/S/Y/W etc. and you think you'll get enough brand recognition/make enough connections for it to be worth it. So... no, it's not worth it for you.
Don't go to school, a lateral from AM to dev/Acq. shouldn't be that difficult at your level.
Why didn’t you apply to UT McCombs if you want to stay in TX? It’s easily the best program in state and one of best in the country. They have student run PERE and REIT funds and dedicated real estate finance and PE concentrations as an MBA. Full disclosure I went there, and it’ll get you an interview almost anywhere in DFW, Austin, at Houston and the network you’ll build there is connected to top firms in those cities as well...
Currently waitlisted at UT-Austin, so I'm assuming I won't get in (or know) prior to my offers above exploding.
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