Comments (61)

Funniest
Nov 21, 2019

When I read your title, my mind immediately jumped to the thought that you were referring to going to bars by yourself. So clearly no, I've never thought about going to open my own firm.

    • 19
Nov 21, 2019

Any particular reason as to why not?

Nov 21, 2019

Don't like the risk, love my job, enjoy working in an office with a large amount of people, can make a really great income if I just stay in my chair for the rest of my career, etc.

    • 1
Nov 22, 2019

Are you the actual Bert Breakfast from Money Shot Invitational?

Nov 22, 2019

Yes and former captain of Hofstra lacrosse

Nov 22, 2019

My roommate and I were discussing this. It's not an obvious answer for lifestyle/income.

We know people we think are getting crushed, working long hours, boring jobs, little pay. Why not just risk it, what kind of career is that?

We also know people that are working great jobs, great lifestyle and raking it in.

It totally depends on the person and going out on your own can be pretty binary as opposed to working at a company where there is more of a spectrum of success however you may define it.

    • 2
Nov 23, 2019

It really is a numbers game.

Nov 21, 2019

Yes. It is a huge motivating factor in my life.

"The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary." - Nassim Taleb

    • 1
Nov 21, 2019

I thought I was the only one.

    • 1
Nov 22, 2019

What's your liquid number to make the leap? I'm thinking $250k to try and go syndicate a deal.

Nov 22, 2019

I think it depends where I'm at in my life. I'm mostly focusing on acquiring specific knowledge in various areas to determine what I want to do. I'm also big on investing in RE. I think cash flow is what allows me to feel comfortable going out on my own. So once my cash flow + wife's income cover the expenses, the risk is mostly eliminated. Or have enough savings that my projected cash flow burn will be okay. Then I can go out on my own.

Thankfully I am about to get married to someone who is completely fine with this and doesn't play status games on spending money to show off to people. She also understands short term pain for long term gain.

For RE Development specifically, which I assume is what you're referring to, it really depends on the fees I could collect if I did that. The math would be:

Fees = Livable salary

Fees = Acquisition Fee (pro rated) + Asset Mgmt Fee + Development Fee (unless you defer some)

All fees are a % of purchase price (acquisition = 1% x duration, AM = 1%, Dev = 3-5%)

Equity = Purchase Price * 30-40% (depending on LTV requirements)

Cash needed = equity * 5-10% (depending on JV requirements)

Plus your livable salary into excel with this basic structure and it'll spit out an answer

"The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary." - Nassim Taleb

    • 3
Nov 21, 2019

I did just this. I'll admit it; It took me passing up two opportunities before I did it out of desperation.

You can always make new connection but lookout where you go. I wish I could leave the country for grad school or work for a couple years. Meetup.com is pretty good when its not all over 40 singles and 55+singles groups, unless that's what you want.

I want to leave the country now.For grad school perhaps.

I tried.
    • 1
Nov 22, 2019

I honestly think about this 3-4 days a week and have been actively building the foundation to make that happen. You're certainly not alone

    • 1
Controversial
Nov 22, 2019

My father's 54. Never ever had a BOSS.

When I was 10 he told me about mice and men. Not the fucking book. The two types of people: you are either a mouse or you're a man. Not sure how it translates, if you get it you get it. For example, Bert_Breakfast sounds like a mouse (see his comments above. He may become rich but he'll never be truly in control of his own path.

My mother hasn't had a boss in like 30 years.

It's a different type of pride knowing that your parents have the freedom to do whatever the fuck they want to do, even if they're not multimillionaires.

Even the big hitters and CEOs got bosses. Investors say "jump", CEO says "how high?".

There's nothing better than having the freedom to pursue your own ideas and vision, especially when you notice that you are better than others and you bring too much to the table.

    • 16
    • 10
Nov 22, 2019

Looks like some mice hit you with MS! SB for telling the truth

"The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary." - Nassim Taleb

    • 1
Nov 22, 2019
straighttohellxo:

My father's 54. Never ever had a BOSS.

Maybe your dad could've had a BOSS if he worked for someone and made more money?

    • 1
Nov 22, 2019

My parents are very comfortable with their 3 story houses in prime locations, thanks.

His & Hers.

    • 8
Nov 22, 2019

No I got it immediately. And SB to you.

Most Helpful
Nov 22, 2019

even though my paychecks come from a company, it's remarkably entrepreneurial, no set times to come into office, no performance reviews, just 100% based on revenue brought in, you eat what you kill.

the first several years will be the most difficult, you'll constantly doubt yourself, wondering if you should've just accepted stability and if you're really free when you're working 12 hours a day on a slow day. one day you'll wake up assuming you've made it and think "I could never go back," and that's a sweet fuckin feeling man.

that said, don't let anyone think you're ever 100% free, because everyone has to respond to their clients, regulators, tax people, counterparties, suppliers, etc., but when you get to choose your clientele, the nature of your work, your schedule, take off whenever you want, etc., that's freedom.

go for it. entrepreneurship is what makes america great. even if you fail, your only regret will be that you didn't try.

    • 14
Nov 22, 2019

^This.

I cant imagine going through life constantly asking yourself "what if?"

Nov 23, 2019
thebrofessor:

even though my paychecks come from a company, it's remarkably entrepreneurial, no set times to come into office, no performance reviews, just 100% based on revenue brought in, you eat what you kill.

the first several years will be the most difficult, you'll constantly doubt yourself, wondering if you should've just accepted stability and if you're really free when you're working 12 hours a day on a slow day. one day you'll wake up assuming you've made it and think "I could never go back," and that's a sweet fuckin feeling man.

that said, don't let anyone think you're ever 100% free, because everyone has to respond to their clients, regulators, tax people, counterparties, suppliers, etc., but when you get to choose your clientele, the nature of your work, your schedule, take off whenever you want, etc., that's freedom.

go for it. entrepreneurship is what makes america great. even if you fail, your only regret will be that you didn't try.

This. Especially the last bit.

Good luck

    • 2
Nov 22, 2019

why wish? plenty of us have gone out on their own on this forum.

I am on my own at the moment and trying to make it happen, but at some point if it doesn't work out I'll get another job with a pay check and just try it on my own later on in life. The hardest thing is during my grind people are approaching me with jobs, and it's tempting... Just two days ago, I am pitching an investment where I am trying to get someone to back me on it. At the end he goes - "we are looking for someone like you to work with us". I looked at him and said, I am looking for you to back me on this right now...

It's nice. Everyone tells you how amazing that you are giving it a go etc... They just don't know how hard it is to motivate yourself in the morning to go and achieve. In a job you have objectives to achieve, when you work for yourself you have a vague idea of what you want, but you have to try and define what it is you want to do.

Ha fuck it - am rambling now.

    • 7
Nov 22, 2019
Disjoint:

Everyone tells you how amazing that you are giving it a go etc... They just don't know how hard it is to motivate yourself in the morning to go and achieve.

this is where a support network is helpful, you need to regularly talk to people you can be vulnerable with. it's difficult to fake it til you make it during the dark times, you need to be able to vent. spouse, close friends, etc., you have to open up to someone though

    • 2
Nov 22, 2019

Kick some ass out there @Disjoint !

    • 1
Nov 23, 2019
Dedline:

Kick some ass out there @Disjoint !

Thank you :)

Nov 22, 2019

It's certainly a motivating factor. But I'm also a huge pussy.

    • 3
Nov 22, 2019

Pretty comes down to how well you can sell. Everything else can be hired out.

Whether that means you are making 300 cold calls a day, or walking out from a job with multimillion dollar contracts with your old robodex -- you need to be able to get deals.

Array

Nov 22, 2019

Absolutely, its why commercial real estate was so appealing to me once I fell into the industry (almost entirely by accident). I knew I'd never go back to regular finance.

Nov 22, 2019

Most of the guys I know in RE own or invest in some of their own properties or ventures. Some are partners in other small groups along with their full time positions.

I know people who made the leap straight out of undergrad. I know of another who made the leap around age 40 in 06', got crushed by the recession, weathered the storm and is now closing in on 1 Billion AUM.

Conversely, I had an interesting conversation with a guy last week that made me think a lot. He holds an executive position with a large local developer which pays a large salary. He worked at another firm for 20 years prior and still holds ownership on multiple deals he did with them. He started his own firm with a partner after leaving the prior company, then got poached by the developer. He is still a part owner of the other firm he started in addition to the role with the developer. Outside of that he sits on multiple boards and teaches at a few universities. Combined, the boards and teaching net him around 150k annually which he called "free money" because the time he spends on boards and teaching take very little of his regular 8-5:00 schedule. You could almost call him an entrepreneur with a full time job, salary, and benefits. It sounds really simple and obvious but prior to talking with him I had always viewed going out on my own as a choice between stability and long term reward. For many, it is. His approach gave me an interesting perspective in that there are ways to have both. Rambling a bit, just thought I'd share.

    • 6
Nov 22, 2019
JVRE:

Conversely, I had an interesting conversation with a guy last week that made me think a lot. He holds an executive position with a large local developer which pays a large salary. He worked at another firm for 20 years prior and still holds ownership on multiple deals he did with them. He started his own firm with a partner after leaving the prior company, then got poached by the developer. He is still a part owner of the other firm he started in addition to the role with the developer. Outside of that he sits on multiple boards and teaches at a few universities. Combined, the boards and teaching net him around 150k annually which he called "free money" because the time he spends on boards and teaching take very little of his regular 8-5:00 schedule. You could almost call him an entrepreneur with a full time job, salary, and benefits. It sounds really simple and obvious but prior to talking with him I had always viewed going out on my own as a choice between stability and long term reward. For many, it is. His approach gave me an interesting perspective in that there are ways to have both. Rambling a bit, just thought I'd share.

Moral of the story - you don't need to own or start your own shop as long as you get to a position where you have carry on individual deals. It's ownership of assets that leads to major wealth accumulation, so being able to take 1-5% of a deal while also being paid six figures of cash compensation is pretty much an ideal spot to be in.

    • 2
Nov 22, 2019

I thought people in finance would naturally skew towards being risk adverse. I'm glad I was wrong. CRE seems overrepresented tho.

Nov 22, 2019

i went out on my own once. lost my keys and my wallet. found myself driving around at 3am in a polygamous plumber's van drinking old style. wouldn't recommend it.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 3
    • 1
Nov 23, 2019

I could never work for someone else. Never found it interesting.

Nov 23, 2019

It depends...

If I'm already in a solid career, I will do it gradually on the side. No reason to throw your name off a payroll.

If I'm in a shit career with no upside, then I will probably just go off on my own and see what sticks.

Nov 23, 2019

If you are OK with 3-5 years of working your ass off wondering if you are going to make it, you'll be fine in the end with talent and determination. But if you already know you'll quit when it's grim, stay where you are and keep dreaming

Vol

Nov 25, 2019

Starting a company costs a lot. The idea that anyone with a good idea and work ethic can build a company in this day and age is total B.S, you also need a lot, and I mean a lot of money. Lawyer fees alone will eat up all your savings very quickly not to mention other costs. Most successful entrepreneurs already come from rich families hence why they took huge risks.

    • 1
    • 1
Nov 26, 2019

That isn't true. It's something you tell yourself to justify your aversion to risk.

Nov 26, 2019

Aversion to risk? Dude, I just explained inherent risks to starting a company and you're telling me nothing I said is true and that I'm being risk averse.

??????

Nov 27, 2019

we're not talking about a factory here bub. I've seen numerous examples (because they're my clients) of people starting up shop with nothing more than updating their linkedin, an insurance policy, and making an LLC, no need to trademark something if you are the product and it's just a DBA, but if you do, that's not even $500.

if you know what you want (insurance, biz structure), don't need real estate or staff, you're looking at <$5k in startup costs, so no, it won't destroy your savings. if you want to start a capital intensive business with employees, real estate, equipment, sure, but that's not what all small business is.

and on the coming from money part, I could make that argument with literally any career, but if you don't come from money there's not a better country on this planet to give it a try. the sheer volume of rags to riches stories here in america is a great reason to give it a shot, if you want to.

there's risk in starting your own company, yes. I've seen it firsthand where a business folds or stutters for a while and the founder goes back to a corporate gig, but that doesn't mean they're worse off, they gave it a try. there's risk in being an employee your whole life, you're at the mercy of your employer, you have no freedom, and your upside is capped. all paths in life have risk, just because the entrepreneurial one isn't as clear cut as going into many of the jobs this forum salivates over does not mean it's not worthwhile.

if you don't want to hang up your own shingle, fine. but don't spread misinformation to the others considering it themselves.

    • 4
Nov 25, 2019

Build up the capital while on the side working on the business/start-up. Unless you have the credit to make large loans.

    • 2
Nov 25, 2019

It's very simple, you're either a "company person" or not. Work that out real fast. Lick ass or conquer, it's your call. Just make sure you lick ass like a champion, or, conquer... for everything else, there's Master Card - #deep. Personally, I found I wanted punch ass-lickers in the face. Having said that I buddied a supreme ass-licker as a grad and now he's a salary partner at like 30 with a serious global, based in NYC. The point being, he worked-out he was an ass-licker. I respect him for owning it, but, still want to fly-kick him.

    • 2
    • 2
Nov 27, 2019

Not sure why people feel the need to denigrate those working at jobs for a company as though you've "figured out life" by doing your own venture... I for one have barely started my career but isn't it essentially the same conversation as those who chose family etc. to work 9-5 vs. those that slug it out in IB --> no right answer just figure out what your values/mindset are and go from there?

Nov 27, 2019

So, my background is M&A, PE and Family Office (mine). Bro, I guess I could have sugar coated it...? I'll reframe. Work out whom you are and do it fast. There's no right answer. Play the long game, play averages and always keep a "sleeve" xo

Nov 26, 2019
Comment
    • 1
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Nov 27, 2019