Goldman Sachs/ Morgan Stanley vs the rest
Hello All,
So I am very curious because I have noticed there is a lot of talk about Goldman Sachs and MS. But I never really hear about the other competition is that because there is some major bias towards those banks or ultimately since they pay well they are most talked about?
I wanted to ask if schools do truly make a difference in terms of where you land or ultimately it’s who you know and how you network?
This was out of curiosity and also what are people’s thoughts on Oaktree and other value investment firms?
Thank You!
then lurk moar
Always looking and reading. I meant in the wider WSO community.
Bro are you trying to compare GS & Oaktree? That's like comparing Walmart & Dick's Sporting Goods
Maybe slightly bruh only reason was Oaktree was bought by Brookfield and I figured that only made them have access to a larger playing field.
Can't speak of Oaktree firsthand because, honestly, I don't know much about them at all - maybe that's just me being ignorant...
In terms of your "GS / MS vs the rest" question, that's quite a broad field you're trying to cover - are you talking in terms of a specific division (e.g. S&T, M&A), overall prestige, etc?
What, however, I will say is that a lot has been made the past week (what with US earnings) of - in particular - Morgan Stanley's performance vs, say, that of Bank of America (i.e. one of the last, pure-play investment banks, reaping the rewards of a relatively well protected trading division when other IBs were cutting, vs a "universal bank" with far greater retail lending exposure). I think - from, at least, the perspective of S&T - looking at the minutiae of prestige between these firms is overdone: BAML has great traders, as does Citi, as does JPM, as does Credit Suisse, etc. While some trading divisions at specific banks will do well some years, the case will be the same at different banks for others - it's a combination of both the then-current structure of the bank (e.g. exposure to retail lending), the business focus of the bank (e.g. equities vs fixed income), as well as the strategic focus of the bank (e.g. CEO wants to pivot to wealth management instead of S&T). There's little point worrying over what the best banks are now in terms of where you would be best placed to start your career - focus more on getting in at any good shop.
Ultimately, the long-and-short of it is this: the kudos that comes with working at any of these firms is significant - and, yes, some may be considered better than others, but that will change quicker than you expect over time. It simply isn't lasting. I remember when Goldman used to reign supreme, before they were then arguably surpassed by JPM, and now, it seems, by Morgan Stanley. Remember, there was once a time where working at Lehman Brothers / Bear Stearns / Solomon Brothers / Enron / Barings-fking-Bank was considered the hottest ticket to the big leagues.
I was given the advice early in my career that there's no point trying to pick the lows of a market to enter (e.g. equity trading), nor exclusively aiming for what is then perceived as the most exclusive / prestigious firm - if you're excellent at your job, you'll be compensated for it and, ultimately, likely have a reasonable chance later in your career when it arguably matters more of gaining entry to the most sought after / influential seats of near any firm.
Thank You for this response! I know a little of Oaktree I often read Howard Marks investor letters from time to time. I know they were recently bought by Brookfield Properties.
In terms of GS/MS and the other firms, I was talking about the S&T along with the environment and the level of prestige. I did see the quarterly earnings for the large firms and they were on point. That means all the traders were firing on all cylinders and are having a nice pay check that is for sure.
Is it fairly common for the strategies to change for the S&T? Would you say that makes it slightly difficult to adjust and then continue at the same pace? Also if the firm becomes more client based does that take away for the traders in the sense they are not able to take much riskier trades?
That is some solid career advice and it does make sense when it comes down to everything it could be JP/MS and Goldman reign supreme this year and the next could be a completely different set of firms making the news.
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