GPA vs GMAT, which carries more weight?
Just giving a hypothetical, is it possible to get into a Top B-school if you went undergrad at a Top-25 school but your GPA was low (under 3.0) because of a bad fit for the initial major your chose but lets say you get a 720 GMAT, what about if you get 750+? for the sake of arguement we'll say that you are involved in a good amount of extra curricular activities/community service and an active member of the community. for work experience lets say something very quant related risk analysis (for a major credit card company) or sales associate for a AM company like BlackRock 2 years exp. any thoughts??
A high GMAT can help make up for a low GPA. Good work experience, professional performance, and strong recommendations will also go a long way in making the GPA a less important factor in your application.
That being said, if it is as low as you say, you need to focus on explaining in your applications essays why it was so low and why that won't be the case in Grad School. Not sure what the story is, but you need sell it.
Agreed. Make use of the optional essay to explain your particular circumstances, and then make sure you ace all the rest of your application, and you'll have a shot.
I've heard that if you've recently graduated college, and have limited work experience - your GPA is weighted heavier.
The GMAT on the other hand is widely considered the equalizer and will carry weight regardless of how long ago you graduated...
If you are applying for top few, both matter.
Hi GMAT can make up for low GPA.
GMAT is usually wieghed more heavily as it's more recent/relevant.
Here's the deal:
For the most part, GPA and GMAT have little bearing on admission. Both can help to the extent they're really high, much as the brand name of your school and/or employer.
Example: "This kid got a 790 GMAT. Wow." That helps you, but not much more than that. Stack up a bunch of those, and your probability of admission goes up. However, a 740 versus a 690 doesn't change your profile meaningfully.
Why is that? Because above an "acceptable" level, everyone goes back into the pool and the battle is really won or lost with the essays. Once we looked at your GMAT and said "good enough", we forgot all about it.
A low GMAT or GPA begs a question: why? So explain it. Be short and concise, and don't dwell on it. Apologizing too much for it WILL hurt you. We can see from the other stuff that it probably doesn't reflect who you've become. Move on.
ghengis have you worked in bschool admissions?
As an MBA student, I read essays and was a student rep on the adcom. Now I just interview New York City candidates at the request of my school. Interviewer input is mostly focused upon determining whether you think the candidate (i) has good reasons for wanting to go to b-school, (ii) wanting to attend OUR b-school, (iii) would be a good fit (ie would you want to be his/her classmate). Qualifications are judged by the adcom, not the interviewer.
The whole process is much more formalized than most people realize. Our program, for example, has an adcom handbook that is supposed to help make the review process for essays and applications more uniform. I suspect most other top programs have similar handbooks, perhaps stressing different aspects more.
GhengisKhan, where did you receive your MBA from?
High GMAT/low GPA (Originally Posted: 01/06/2010)
High GMAT (750+) yet low GPA (3.5) at ivy with 3 years experience at BB in S&T equal a shot at H/W/S? Simplistic/reductive, I know. Would appreciate input all the same. Thanks.
GPA is fine, esp given your GMAT...you've cleared the bar on those measures...prob need a work experience in which you got promoted or demonstrated some leadership (if thats happened in your 3 years, then go fer it)...the trend for bschools has been to recruit younger, so I think your set if you have a good career progression story
You're fine, search for a guy named Gordon.Gekko, he had a 2.9 gpa from a non target, much lower GMAT, and still got an interview at Wharton. You're miles ahead.
Thanks for the input everyone.
Yeh I wouldnt consider a 3.5 low especially coming from a target school. B-schools usually look at GMAT and work experience more anyways so I'd worry more about performance during the interview as opposed to actually getting the interview because it seems like you should be fine.
Importance of GPA and GMAT for top schools? (Originally Posted: 11/14/2011)
If you had to assign some weight on GPA/GMAT (stats), how much weight would it hold? Maybe 20-30% of the application to a top business school like HBS, GSB? I think a strong part of my application is that I will be a 3.9, PBK, summa cum laude, HYP grad with probably an above average score on GMAT (720+).
Or is it almost entirely work experience, extracurriculars, accomplishments, and subjective factors?
Holistic approach. GPA and GMAT wont matter if you were mediocre at your job.
Your stats will certainly help, but it will hinge upon your experience, extras, recs, essays, etc., once your numbers are good enough. I'm going to assume that you have job lined up at a top consulting or financial firm, given your pedigree and gpa. If so, you're in a great spot. Just make to distinguish yourself by getting involved in community service, international work, interesting hobbies, etc.
You will be a frontrunner with that kind of academic pedigree, but it won't be enough to get you in.
Both schools have a fairly long list of "favorite employers" (feeders), of which McKinsey, Teach for America and the Army Rangers are probably at the top (I deliberately chose one corporate, one service and one military feeder, but McKinsey and other corporates claim the lion's share of the entering class). Choose one and you will be a lot closer to getting in.
The last point is demonstrable leadership (which is sine qua non for HBS) and community engagement (which is very Stanford).
If you've got these down, admission is yours to lose.
Thanks for the responses. I will be going to a BB IBD, not sure if I'll have time for community engagement but hopefully if I have 10-20 hours of free time per week if/when I'm in PE I'll find something that interests me and engages the community :).
Hi notatrollatall,
If you ask most MBA admissions committee members, they will tell you that your application is the sum of many parts. Your numbers can help push you into the consideration set. While a 600 GMAT or a 2.7 GPA may raise red flags at a school like Wharton, a 700 and a 3.5 make you a solid, reasonable applicant. However, your numbers cannot get you in. Average or above average numbers will not push you over the edge at a top school. Even an 800 and a 4.0 can meet rejection.
Although it is hard to assign “most important” status to any one component, I will tell you that while strong essays, recommendations, and interview can compensate provide context for low numbers, the reverse is not true. Strong numbers will never compensate for weak written materials or a sloppy, negative recommendation.
Hope this was of help.
Best,
Conrad and the Stacy Blackman Team
Actually, I disagree a little bit with the above poster.
In the grand scheme of things, more often than not, a stellar application from a traditional candidate (finance, consulting, engineering, corporate) will not overcome lower-than-average GMAT/GPAs. If you're a traditional candidate, you don't need super high numbers, but lower-than-average numbers can be fatal. The reason why is that the days of "atrociously executed applications" are more or less over. There are so many resources on the Internet, admissions consultants, etc. that for many traditional candidates almost ALL will have strongly executed applications (or executed well enough to get them in).
In other words, as a banker, if your GMAT/GPA isn't in range and there's nothing truly extraordinary about you (i.e. beyond just having a blue chip resume), you'll have a tough time simply because there are more than enough bankers of a similar caliber (resume, essays, etc) AND who have stronger scores. Guess who's ends up in the front of the line and who has to hang out back?
I wrote a blog post some time back (you can check it on my site) about how the admissions process is like getting six-pack abs. The GMAT/GPA is akin to having proper diet - without diet/nutrition as a base, no amount of exercise (applications execution) will give you those six-pack abs. Of course there are genetic freaks (in admissions and body DNA) but they are exceptions not the rule.
Now, if you are a non-traditional candidate (i.e. from western Europe/UK, or you work in nonprofit, the military, sports, etc.) they will cut you more slack. This is where it's more likely a lower-than-average GMAT/GPA can be overlooked. Frankly, this is where a LOT more can be overlooked (even the quality of the application itself).
I've seen sloppily executed applications get the nod (example: folks who have referenced the wrong school in the essays haha and still get in). Of course that doesn't mean you should just put in a half-assed application, but it goes beyond just how well you execute the application - if they like you enough, they will be willing to overlook a lot of things. This kind of thing doesn't always happen just to non-traditionals (I've seen mainland Chinese corporate dudes get into Stanford with essays that are compelling in terms of narrative but grammatically atrocious), but again non-traditionals tend to be given more slack simply because there's less people they can be directly compared to. The flipside of this is that non-traditionals are even more of a wild card and unpredictable (i.e. some stellar nontraditional candidate doesn't get in because they truly are a bit too unique or exceptional to the point where even H/S wonders why they are even applying to b-school, while some random person teaching poor kids in Cambodia gets in).
Strong numbers (GMAT/GPA) can compensate for mediocre applications - if your raw profile is compelling enough to them (i.e. you're likely a non-traditional candidate).
So in short, it really depends on the kind of candidate you are. If you're traditional, what separates those who get in and those who don't has become virtually indistinguishable. Yes, the bread and butter candidates at H/S/W and elsewhere are Asian and Caucasian bankers, consultants, engineers and corporate types, but these people also make up a huge chunk of the applicant pool as well - and when so many of them have similar GMATs/GPAs, similar resumes, and applications that are all well executed, it's not about one "strong" aspect compensating for a "weak" one -- everything has to be strong.
In short, while it's been true for a while that a high GMAT/GPA won't get you in (but low scores can keep you out), it's now true for the quality of the applications (namely the essays and interviews): stellar apps won't get in, but crappy ones can take you out of the running.
GPA Vs. GMAT (corrected) =P (Originally Posted: 02/14/2012)
Hi, I am currently an undergraduate at my school, it is a non-target school. I was wondering basically how important does the GMAT weigh in determining one's Graduate School. For example, I currently have a 3.6 GPA, and I am quite nervous on taking the GMAT. How much will the GMAT affect my chances of getting into top 10 or even top 20 school in business? If my current school is non-target, and not ranked nationally is there slim to no chance in getting into top 10 or top 20 graduate business school? GPA say 3.5-3.7 and graduate from my 4 year university. However, If I get like a 500-550 on my GMAT, is there no chance at all into getting admitted into a top 10 or 20 graduate business program? How much do I need to excel in getting into Cornell, Columbia, Wharton, Harvard, UVA Darden, Stern, and etc.? Also, could you guys recommend where to study for GMAT? Thank You!
wow..you have a ton of research to do. you basically have no shot with that GMAT and no work experience..
You should shoot for at least a 700.
how hard is it to get 700 on the GMAT? I understand I need to do a lot of research, could you guys give me some tips/advice as to where I can start studying and preparing myself for the future, I am nervous. Thank You!
I have not taken the GMAT yet, I am just giving an example. Please what can help boost my GMAT score to 700? I am a book-smart person. What resources should I use to prep myself for the GMAT, I know a little about Kaplan, ManhattanGMAT, and Gmatexams, could someone give me more sources and any tips/advice would be helpful. Thank You
Tony,
Scoring 700+ on the GMAT is difficult, but not impossible. The ManhattanGMAT books and the Official Guide to GMAT Review are a great place to start should you choose to begin studying for the GMAT.
Check out www.gmatclub.com; that site has a ton of info on each of the sections on the exam and on how to prepare for the exam in general. Good luck man.
Gmart or Kmart? Which is more prestigious?
You're fucked.
gmatclub.com does have good stuff. You'll probably get more serious responses than on WSO.
700 is the magic number most people use, but take a look at the stats (i.e. average and range of GMAT scores) of the schools that you want to go to. That usually gives you an indication of where you need to be.
Also, I really hope you're not looking to apply to get in right after you finish undergrad...
go to M&I, great articles on this stuff
You can also go onto ThePirateBay and search "GMAT Prep" and you should find useful videos to prepare.
GMAT and GPA (Originally Posted: 10/19/2012)
Long story short: I have a low GPA (talking 2 ish out of 4) - no excuses, I d***ed around in undergrad and didnt study. I really studied my balls off for the GMAT and I have 96%+ percentile score.
Just wondering what are my chances of getting into a top MBA program in both Canada (UofT/Ivey/Queen's/Schulich) and USA?
Other info: 2 investment banking analyst experience as an undergrad (at boutique and MM), buy side experience (at a boutique) and PWM at a Canadian bank.
Thanks for your input
Congrats on the score. The more years out (distancing yourself from u-grad years) I think you'd have an outside shot at the lower end of 12-18th ranked schools.
96th percentile is ~730 on the GMAT and ~average for the very top US schools...
Thanks for your input!
When you say 12-18th ranked school are you looking at it from a global ranking or just USA ranks
I've been interested in Yale, Fuqua, and Tuck
For Canadian MBA: UofT, Queen's and Ivey
I was thinking in the US (don't know anything about Canadian programs). The schools you mentioned above are definitely going to be reaches just based on their statistics. Check out this link of US News rankings + GMAT / GPA here:
http://poetsandquants.com/2012/03/13/hbs-stanford-tie-for-first-in-u-s-…
i'm currently wondering the same thing as well...if someone could shed some more light on it, that would be great.
i'm in the same situation, very sh*tty gpa (2.3 outta 4.3), 3 years investment banking experience at a canadian boutique firm, haven't wrote my GMAT yet but lets assume i get a 650-700
Rank these: GPA, GMAT, Job (Originally Posted: 11/09/2012)
Which holds the most weight?
Obviously, depends on school.
1) Job
The rest are circumstantial.
Obviously job. The others are just stats used to get a job. If you work at KKR who cares that you have a 3.0 in ugrad.
Agreed.
But for non-OP readers (i.e., who are planning to apply to b-school in the intermediate-/long-term future), consider that a strong GPA is (in a relative sense) more important in getting the strong job.. put differently, don't rest on your laurels now thinking that you can make it up later.
It seems like everyone agrees with job. Most applicants start offwith 5 years of work experience. So what if an applicant has two or three jobs in that time and the end job is the best and other experience is just pretty good? How is the other experience viewed?
hmm serious question eh?
Good Question....
When you mention leadership, are you referring to leadership in college organizations or taking on leadership roles at your job? or elsewhere
If you're looking at academics at all I think the institution itself is more important than the gpa. Rather take a 3.5 from Harvard than a 3.9 from South Dakota State. Or anything from South Dakota State.
Job is definitely the top and I think GMAT then GPA, one can kind of make up for the other. I have a 3.0 GPA in engineering from a state school. However with really strong work experience and a 750 GMAT I just got in to Columbia. So from personal experience I would definitely say that GPA is a factor but not a killer necessarily.
Jobs, dabating between GMAT & EC/leadership, GPA
Didn't somebody post something from an Adcom at Wharton or something who claimed that a very high GMAT 750+ wil put anyone in a separate stack of papers and that many of these candidates receive offers regardless of their backgrounds?
I'm not going to say where but last year I had a one-on-one meeting with a senior admissions director at a top b-school. I only got this meeting because a good friend's dad is a very wealthy influential alumni of the school and sits on the board. During the meeting, this person stated explicitly that they have "different GMAT thresholds" depending on the applicant's demographic group.
bump.
Work experience is easily the most important criteria in mba admissions.
The gpa vs. GMAT really depends on the school. HBS and Stanford are much more gpa heavy; their median is around 3.7, a lot higher than other top b-schools. I think wharton/booth/sloan are more forgiving of lower GPAs if they are offset by high GMAT scores and good work experience. Kellogg/Columbia seem to lean a bit more towards gpa, but this is all based on what i've personally observed.
One of the best descriptions, especially considering its brevity. I would expand work experience to include overall resume; whether you want to a target school and your performance there at some level has an impact on the brands on your resume, with your leadership and progress completing the 'quality of work experience' factor. So overall it's 1) Resume (prices in most other variables) 2) GMAT (probably the single most important numerical value) and then 3) GPA.
As Mbavsmfin said, you should still bear in mind that individual schools tweak the formula slightly. At HBS and Stanford, GPA is incredibly important and brands-on-resume probably outweigh the bullet points on the resume; in addition, Stanford loves high GMATs to go along with the big GPA. Kellogg also leans heavy on GPA, and Columbia and Sloan also love the big stats (more GMAT than GPA but still really like both); between them, Sloan is very big on quality-of-work-experience (what you actually did vs the brands), Columbia is much more forward looking (how does your work experience fit in with the school's reputation and how can you leverage that into a successful recruiting season), and Kellogg is somewhere in-between. Booth probably places more importance on your specific accomplishments, personal aspirations and GMAT over brands and GPA, with Wharton probably focusing on overall competence (they don't really take duds, less volatility, other schools, including HBS and Stanford, can have some real 'misses' amidst a sea of 'hits'), as suggested by brands, GMAT and international outlook (they strike me as bigger on that than most US schools), and a bit less by GPA.
What if your job was at a Lehman? Bear?
That's fine, usually. It's not like junior bankers or traders were at all responsible for their broker-dealers going down. Selection process at these is usually pretty rigorous.
monty, you're going back to school?
Prob not but I would like to at some point
1) Job 2) GMAT / GPA / U-Grad Institution 3) Essay 4) Interview -- basically don't throw up on yourself
How important are promotions for the overall jobs category? For example, if someone spent 4 years as an analyst is that something that will be looked down upon?
Promotions and career progression are of absolute importance. And for finance people, adcom also cares about your compensation even though they say technically that they use it just for "gathering data."
HIGH gmat score BU VERY LOW GPA (Originally Posted: 11/25/2012)
i have completed my bachelor from united kingdom in Bsc hons software engineering. before i post my query i would like to tell you something about my education. i had done my first 2 years of bachelors in software engineering from India and thereafter i went to London to study my final year on credit transfer basis. in my first and second year i had secured good marks but in my final year i had secured very low marks i.e,( third class hons). the university didn't consider my first 2 years marks and they only gave me degree on the basis on my final year. i want to do masters in Finance . i have scored 740 score in GMAT. so my question to you is that with low marks in bachelors and with good GMAT score will i be able to get admission in top 50 MFIN program i have also a gap year of 3 years between my studies.
Caps? Really?
GMAT vs GPA (Originally Posted: 05/01/2015)
Hi everyone. In term of low GPA ( around +- 3.0) and GMAT higher than 700, is it possible break thru HR verification process in top tier banks? By the way I have work experience on one of emerging markets as Fixed Income & Derivatives trader in commercial bank.
are you a student, or an experienced hire?
High GRE score, low GPA (Originally Posted: 08/21/2015)
I just graduated, should I spend the next few months studying for the exam and applying to jobs?
Do both! I am! If you manage your time everyday and don't hang with friends as much on weekend and grind it out , you can definitely do both.
Good luck!
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