I've been struggling with this debate for some time. I am currently at a crossroads in my academic plan, and wanted to seek some advice from WSO.
I understand the recruiting game, and honestly, at Wharton, where I am in my second year, interviews are based pretty much on GPA. Experience plays a role, but it's mostly GPA.
So I have the option of taking some heavy finance courses, like Corporate Valuation, and financial derivatives etc. My GPA is currently only slightly above average, so I am a bit concerned.
My current plan is to do everything in my power to raise my gpa as much as possible as quickly as possible, by loading up on easy classes and pushing off the tough classes like corp val and derivatives for later after OCR is over.
Do you think that taking six easy classes is justifiable? I see my peers planning to take these hard classes and I wonder why? Interviewers don't expect us to know advanced valuations. Is it ok that I'm focussing only on my gpa, and not taking advantage of all of the fantastic finance courses offered here?
What do you guys think, serious comments are appreciated.
Have struggled with this myself...
Generally I'd think that whoever's doing on campus interviews would know about the course difficulties, so that's something to consider, but then again they might not even look at your transcript...
At my school first round screening is also very GPA based, but mine sucks and I've gotten invites to most of them... so i think the whole "networking" thing still applies very much, and for me it's been the best possible solution - i can take interesting classes but at the same time not suffer too much b/c of a lower GPA.
Ultimately i guess you just have to find a balance... I want to graduate from college having actually learned something.
You run the risk of alum recognizing when people have padded their schedules with gut classes versus taking the more difficult Wharton finance courses. It would be easier just to get first round interviews with non-alums reviewing your resume if you have a higher gpa, but once you get the interview having taken some harder classes like derivatives or corporate valuation will give you a knowledge advantage and could make you do better in the technical side of the interviews. I'd say if you're confident you can maintain a gpa in the 3.5 - 3.6 range, take at least one of the harder finance classes.
I've seen some of the course offerings from Wharton (I go to a complete non-target) and they look beautiful, just beautiful damn it.
Corporate Valuation, Financial Derivatives, Fixed Income Securities, Behavioral Finance, Buyouts/Acquisitions
I'd like to think I'd take these classes but I assume Wharton is extremely challenging and I'm sure I'd be asking the same question as you.
How "easy" are these other classes? What's your requirements for a FIN concentration? If you have to take these classes anyway they may help in interviews.
If you want to work in and think you would be good at banking or s&t, you should probably expect to do well in those classes. I realize that's sometimes easier said than done and a bit of a simplistic view, but if you have a legitimate interest in the subjects and think you would be good at them then by all means take them now.
How about you man up and take the hard courses, work your ass off and do well in them? If you can't do that you will never make it in the world of finance.
If you aren't willing to do that, then take the easier classes and keep your GPA up, but make sure you do some EC's related to finance, read, keep up to date on the markets, etc.
The thing is most firms will not look at your transcript until after the offer is made. That's what analysts have told me.
I plan to take corp val and derivatives, I just am thinking that deferring them to senior year, and taking some easy language classes next semester can get me over the 3.5 cut off, which at this point is my top priority.
A concentration only takes 4 advanced courses, so up until now, I was considering doing finance and accounting, they set one up so well for banking, but the courses are just very difficult, and if dropping the accounting concentration can get me a 3.6 after replacing some accounting with easy fun classes, i'm thinking that would be better. 3.6 reaches magna cum laude status, and I feel that that would be a great accomplishment for me.
I am slightly below a 3.5, so I would love to crack that threshold.
thanks for the replies
And it's not really about manning up. The wharton curve really destroys any chance of raising one's gpa significantly. Curving classes to a B- and requiring that 35-40% of the class get C's makes it difficult to raise ones gpa above a 3.4 honestly. It's not about having interest and working my ass off. Everyone at wharton works their asses off, that's just how it is.
I do see your points though about learning, I just feel that the best strategy to land a BB internship junior year is just to get the highest gpa possible.
I agree with the post above. Recruiters won't be looking through your transcripts before you get an offer. What they will do is put your resume in a pile and weed through them based primarily on GPA. My advice to you is to maximize GPA early on, whichever way you feel you can best accomplish this.
Stop being a pussy, time value of money doesn't change no matter what school you're attending. "Hard" is purely a relative term. Just take the courses, get those As, and get that job. By the way, the whole curve excuse is bullshit. Again, it all depends on how you look at things. "Curving classes to a B- and requiring that 35-40% of the class get C's makes it difficult to raise ones gpa above a 3.4 honestly." Why not think of it the other way, all the fuck ups make it easy padding for me to get the A. I don't even need to be perfect, just need to beat the kid that can't do a DCF. Anyone that refutes by saying that Wharton kids can all do things perfectly is clearly wrong, 35-40% according to the curve says otherwise.
mkballer, I agree with what you're saying.
ryancoon, I think you need to grow up, corp val is far beyond simple dcf's. It's constructing LBO's and modeling M&A transactions which is very difficult. Any sub par whartonites don't take corp val, they stick to the easy finance classes or do an easier concentration. The kids taking corp val are the goldman and Blackstone kids, the ones that I could not compete with in my wildest dreams, call me a pussy all you want, but I know my limits and they include not being able to compete with the 3.9 kids. They are ridiculous.
Hold on there fellow whartonite. I have taken corp val and there are no LBOs or M&A. The case studies deal with some M&A transactions, but you dont model those. Just valuing the target to see what offer you need to make. Even then, it is so qualitative. My team literally did only DCFs and then randomly picked a number within 5% of that value and called it a tender offer.
Also, the Ballers arent the only ones taking it. Don't know where you got this info from. But seriously, take corp val, try your hardest and at least you will have something to talk about in your interviews. You can even select your favorite case studies and start a convo with that if you dont have other finance exp.
Stop listening to these stupid "man up" posts. Do what's best for yourself and what's going to maximize your chances of landing a job. When I'm looking through resume stacks I couldn't give two shits about what classes some kid has taken. On the other hand, I look at your GPA before I even look at your name. Keep that in your head. In the meanwhile, expand your resume with extracurriculars and leadership activities. Be well-rounded. Be normal. And have a good GPA. That's the kid we want to hire, not the finance geek who doesn't do shit on campus and can't socialize to save their lives. Sure, it'd be great if you were Huntsman or M&T with a high GPA, a great personality, and meaningful on-campus and work experience, but I'm guessing that's not going to happen for you, so make the best of your current situation.
No one cares about the size of your balls and whatever bullshit macho terminology is being spewed in this thread. We care about what we see on paper and then, if you're lucky, what we see in the interview. Your transcript is never brought into the conversation until you have an offer and are clearing pre-work formalities.
I don't think it needs to be all or nothing. I would take a mix of challenging courses that you'll learn a lot in and some easier courses I find interesting as well. I would try to avoid ones that are notoriously easy though, since as it has been mentioned, people like likely know that it was a joke course.
I'd recommend ensuring that you get a 3.5 GPA by taking a few easy classes (or lots of easy ones, if you have too). You should be able to maintain that level of GPA despite having some tougher courses on your roster. Do not graduate with less than a 3.5, people will hold it against you until you forever and it's not worth it. Some cut-offs are higher, but almost all top firms cut off at a 3.5 and this will go on until your 2nd job after business school (basically, forever).
That said, there is a balance here... there's no reason to take a bunch of bullshit classes so you can get a 3.75 when you could take a bunch of legit classes littered with a few easy ones and get a 3.65... the difference between those two is not worth the lack of knowledge.
Just my opinion.
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