Graduate Deferral Program - UBS and elsewhere?

Was wondering whether the offer of a deferred start was sent around to all FT08 analysts at UBS and at any other BBs?

I understand this type of program was used in 2001 - does anybody have any ideas on what the risks and upsides of this program are and how they played out in '01?

Thanks for any tips in advance.

 

2 years from now you will be wishing you did


Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot

-------------- Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot
 

Actually, the job cuts was announced way back earlier this year so not a big surprise at all. And yes, UBS is actually starting to recall U.S. analysts and did already recalled all Asia IBD analysts with option of letting you not come in till July 2010. So somehow, hiring is actually ramping up on certain levels. Most of the 7500 job cuts is accounted for already in which will affect the Wealth Mgmt division mostly.

 

I hate these posts. Why not do something that interests you, whatever that will be vs. what you think will make you look better...

When you assume you make an ass of you and me, not funny but true. This topic has been discussed several times in other postings, but the short answer is business schools look for people that are from a diverse backgrounds, but all have one thing in common, they are the best at what they are doing...

 
Best Response

It's all relative isn't it?

To some, a year to do whatever you want is a gift. A real gift. To others, it seems to be a burden. Which is it for you?

Figure it out. Use your imagination. Trying to figure out what you should do with your life for one year isn't like comparison shopping for TVs at Best Buy where you can go down a checklist of features (i.e. everyone is different, has different personalities/talents/interests, and you never mentioned anything about yourself, so the only thing you can hope for is a laundry list of random things - teach surfing, go diving, write a book, shoot a documentary, do something no working stiff/office guy can do, etc.).

If you want to go teach and live in Asia, go for it.

Just don't be a wuss and make life choices for the purposes of manufacturing a b-school application.

Put it this way. Replace the words "my b-school application" with "please my parents" and you'll see what I (and the other poster) means about doing what interests you first and foremost rather than "what looks good to others". It's a different master, but same psychology. And once b-school is out of the way, it may be replaced with "my in-laws" or what looks good with "my neighbors" or "my colleagues" or whatever. And then your children one day will ask "daddy/mommy, why are you such a wuss?" to which you will answer "I do everything for you, why don't you appreciate?" and then the vicious cycle of wuss-dom gets passed down to another generation. It doesn't have to be that way, man. You can break that cycle, yes you can. (btw I'm just lightly teasing you here, but I hope you get my drift...)

Alex Chu

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

the original thread on the topic was deleted

Yeah, ur right, CS is the BB that was being referenced. I know this for a fact. Pretty familiar with the situation. You get a year off, some stories i've heard include 20K comp.

 

is it worth it do you guys reckon? my concerns are 1) that if you don't accept, they'll rescind your offer anyways, or lay you off after a couple months if things don't get better; 2) if you do accept, things might get worse still and then you can still get your offer rescinded or laid off after you start; or they might delay another year. i was told this is a choice/option...but how much choice do i have here? i feel like i'm being coerced into accepting

any thoughts?

 

$40k after tax prob a little over $20k.

yeah sure, 1 yr to do wahtever you want is great, but it's at the cost of gaining valuable work experience. if you defer and things get worse in the next year, your offer may get rescinded or you can still get laid off. and if you try to find another job, what's gonna distinguish you from any other eager college grads? whereas if you've had at least a couple months experience, that'll still help when finding another job.

 
  1. They over-hired, but not dramatically
  2. There are no strings attached to deferrals
  3. There is a very small, set number of slots available to fill this, on a first-come first-serve basis
  4. They did this about 6 years ago, and the people who took it did not lose their jobs or get treated as 2nd-class citizens when they came back
  5. If you are unsure about what you want to do, why NOT take a $30k vacation? Travel the world, do volunteering, start a company, train for a triathalon- do whatever you want; in a year banking will still be there

I wish I had this option; I might not have taken it, but getting paid to take a vacation is not a bad gig, especially with a good job set up right after- it's like the reverse of grad school.

 

Yes it is CS, yes it is $40K to do anything, to be paid out in 2 lump sums now and in the fall just as FT recruiting starts. I'm strongly considering taking this. HR told me it would be "taxed as a bonus."

Does that mean there's a flat tax of 28%? Or is it effectively 50%?

Regardless, I'm sure it's enough money to go be a beach bum in Indonesia for a year...

 

Who cares what the tax withholding is? You will get back whatever you overpaid when you do your 09 taxes in February. And since you will not start working till next July, you will need money next year so you are not going to spend all 40K (minus taxes) by the end of this year anyway.

I never understood why companies like CS would want to pay someone 40K to sit at home when they can pay them 60K to work, even if that means pushing a broom.

 
stk123:
I never understood why companies like CS would want to pay someone 40K to sit at home when they can pay them 60K to work, even if that means pushing a broom.

It costs more than just the salary to keep someone around the office. You need room for them, you need to give them benefits, you need to worry about the effect they could have on morale if they're constantly bitching, you need to worry about liability. It is definitely not worth it.

 

Consider training, meal allowances, infrastructure, etc.

Also consider the goodwill that CS is generating through this - sure gives the impression that the firm takes care of its people.

 

That sucks man, couldn't believe when I heard that news Friday. With regards to the incoming SA's, rescinging offers next year and next year hiring in general...I can't help but think this is nothing more than a backhanded way to reduce the size of the incoming class w/o actually pulling offers. Realistically, despite the job market still being terrible, I can't imagine too many of the people with 1yr deferal are just going to sit and wait. Most if not all will look for another job, and probably a good amount of them will be successful (I mean, they did get an offer from UBS). I'd like to think that in all likelihood, the natural attrition that will occur from this should allow them to uphold defered offers come next spring/summer as well as hopefully be able to extend some offers to this years interns.

 

Look on the bright side: you have the option to do whatever you want for a year, and still start the structured 2 yr analyst gig. You could go have a blast, or you could do something for your B-School app. Doing a year of hippie volunteering stuff would really help you stand out from the other IB kids when you apply for B-School down the road.

 

HR contacted the equity s&t's and had a few positions that needed to be filled. So some analysts are now on the desks who were initially deferred. Not sure about the exact number but less than ten total.

 

They are honoring their deferments. I guess most you guys are only juniors, therefore didn't hear about the 09 deferment by UBS, and the optional one implemented by CS. UBS implemented optional deferment back in 08. And yes UBS SA applications are up a few weeks ago. But UBS is ramping up its hiring slowly, so all still looks good.

I know there are deferred people on WSO from UBS, have you all received the confirms from HR yet?

 
trade_nrg:
UBS also recently offered the deferred FICC S&T class an option to move their start date up from July 2010 to Jan 2010.

yea it was an option for ibd analysts to move fwd deferred start dates as well. some decided to start right away early and some decided to wait till july 2010 to start with the rest. reasons for not starting early: want to travel, want to go thru training before starting FT, don't want to work for 1/2 yr without a bonus since bonus (for 1 year) won't be paid till july 2011

 

you're right, this all leads to some significant crowding-out. in all honesty, you just have to try your best during the summer and hope for the best. maybe you can network w/ other banks while you're at it, but you may have similar problems elsewhere

best of luck. at least you have a significantly better starting point than a lot of people right now.

 

The offer rate will likely drop, like everywhere else, but they plan on significantly scaling back FT OCR and trying to fill out the FT classes with mostly summers. Given that they've reduce the SA class by about 1/3 from the 2008 SA class, that will help mitigate things.

If you have an SA offer at any bank right now you are going to be in better shape than 95% of your peers. Make the most of it.

 
MoneyKingdom:
I heard that close to 70% of analysts are getting deferred. Most come from the generalist pools. Also, most ex-summer analysts will get to start in September.

They are not deferring the entire class, and they are keeping top-talent only. Let's just hope they don't recind those offers...

As I understand it, 100% of the full-time class got "deferred"...it's just that most are deferred until September 15, and some are deferred until February 1, 2010...

I am trying to figure out what groups have analysts being deferred until February 1, 2010...and what groups are having most, if not all, of their analysts starting in September...

Also, what does the "keeping top talent only" mean? Are you saying they will cut, say, the bottom 25% of the analysts after they start?

 

You may be right, but I heard a portion of the class is starting in September (think about it, 2nd and 3rd years leave to B-school), and the rest in Feb with a 15k stipend.

I was referring to the top talent starting in September, not necessarily because they are top, but because they are in a group (e.g: healhcare) that is doing well and they were a Summer Analyst as well.

From what I hear, everyone in the generalist pool got deferred, and most of those who did not intern the summer before.

This is pure speculation, but I think they will recind 20-40% of the offers befor 2011. Good luck, I am sure you are independently qualified, if shit were to happen

 
MoneyKingdom:

This is pure speculation, but I think they will recind 20-40% of the offers befor 2011. Good luck, I am sure you are independently qualified, if shit were to happen

Do you mean, after analysts have already started, that they will fire 20-40% of the class? Or do you mean straight-up pulling offers back before they even start?

 

Velit at illo a et. Et eaque ex culpa recusandae dignissimos. Magni labore dolore ullam totam laboriosam. Ea rerum voluptatem molestiae sunt autem.

__________ Just my 2c.
 

Assumenda sunt vel asperiores laborum autem est. Aut ab et officia voluptatem. Non inventore accusantium molestiae ut totam voluptatum.

Nesciunt distinctio harum et possimus. Ea autem error perferendis inventore vero debitis veritatis. Dolorum minima autem est necessitatibus dolor architecto eligendi. Aliquid quo sunt ab ea ut qui accusamus.

Error doloremque eum natus temporibus. Ut impedit illo aperiam minus. Culpa et similique omnis dolore dolorum odio qui.

Eum reprehenderit id molestias magni. In error eos praesentium quo tenetur ut est.

 

Consectetur non est culpa velit accusantium unde. Id facere laborum nisi in id aut voluptatem. Et porro suscipit quia voluptate impedit illo.

Rerum voluptatum magni minus odit qui ut illum. Nulla consectetur nemo impedit animi aut ut.

Doloribus aut alias totam velit eius velit eos. Delectus recusandae cupiditate laudantium totam officia molestiae animi. Illum doloremque et in et quia. Ab magnam dolorem magni corrupti. Sunt omnis cumque quae quia exercitationem quia reprehenderit.

Expedita sit aut mollitia maxime est recusandae non officiis. Consequatur impedit in qui voluptas nulla. Voluptatibus adipisci dolores ea. Molestias dolore vel suscipit optio.

 

Sint explicabo eveniet non nam illo inventore voluptas. Magnam odio eos impedit qui voluptas. Impedit ut est autem veniam. Harum rerum dolorum harum et nisi pariatur.

Quas ipsam maxime molestiae vel perspiciatis qui. Deserunt qui dicta facere ullam. Enim magni qui et non quod maxime iure temporibus.

Dolores alias eos voluptates quia qui natus. A voluptatem voluptate quis. Incidunt sint et atque magnam. Voluptatem assumenda odio et cumque qui. Culpa facilis quas id earum.

Et eaque sed praesentium repellat ad. Dolores aut explicabo dicta dolorem sed vitae ad debitis. Voluptate in sit et nobis. Ea odit et numquam nobis unde exercitationem. Nobis quidem laboriosam quae pariatur molestias voluptatem ipsam.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (85) $262
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (65) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (198) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (143) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
7
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
8
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
98.9
9
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.8
10
numi's picture
numi
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”