Green New Deal
Don't want to be the guy to put politics on here but thought this would be a good thing to discuss.
The resolution presented today says the US can achieve this through a series of steps over the next 10 years, including:
- Funding projects and strategies to build the US's capacity to face climate-related disasters
- A guaranteed job with a family-sustaining wage, paid medical and family leave and retirement security
- Repairing and upgrading US infrastructure, including "eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible."
- Upgrade or replace every building in the country
- Meeting all of the US's power needs through clean, renewable, and zero-emissions energy sources, including upgrading buildings to make them more energy efficient
- Working with farmers and ranchers to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gasses "as much as technologically feasible."
- Creating more growth in the clean manufacturing industry
- Build up high-speed trains to the point where air travel is no longer necessary
- Overhauling US transport systems to reduce pollution and greenhouse gases
- Restoring and protecting fragile ecosystems
- Cleaning hazardous waste sites
- No Nuclear Energy
Nuclear energy is actually one of the more proven and immediately available methods to cut down on carbon emissions while trying to focus on renewable energy production.
Yeah this is the most telling bullet point that proves the Green New Deal is more political than practical. By the way, they're also against hydroelectric investment. It's the Jill Stein, pie-in-the-sky version of what could otherwise be characterized mostly by heavy investment in sustainable infrastructure.
You can't have a serious discussion about reaching sustainability quickly while excluding nuclear, hydro and biomass.
The official resolution leaves room for nuclear FYI. It says carbon-free (which includes nuclear) energy so idk where OP got his info.
EDIT: I was mistaken, initially I read it didn't exclude nuclear but that's incorrect.
There is no viable alternative to oil and gas. I will further that by saying there NEVER will be.
Take advantage of this fucking stupidity and buy undervalued oil and gas assets.
This is absurdly stupid
"Immediate" in that we have the technology, but it actually takes over a decade to build and deliver a new nuclear plant from scratch versus only a couple years for solar. I've read before that it takes something like 15 years for nuclear energy to then offset the carbon footprint during the development process, as it takes an obscene amount of energy and resources to make one. Of course that is then met with 50 years of carbon free energy, but there is some logic towards avoiding nuclear energy while working towards carbon neutrality, especially in light of the timeline being proposed to abate or mitigate climate change.
But also important to keep in mind that the deal is called the Green ND, not the Carbon ND, so it seems like it's trying to take a more holistic environmental approach rather that JUST cutting down emissions. This is not necessarily a bad thing IMO, especially in light of the horrific damages that can occur when nuclear goes wrong. I'm not an engineer but the safety and reliability of even new plants does worry me. If there are alternatives available, those should be encouraged.
On that, the pay back period for nuclear is something like twice the time for solar. So some renewable energies, especially solar, might make more economic sense that nuclear for new energy development, even with the long operational time period for nuclear energy. So in the end you can agree or not agree with the GND, I have some concerns myself, but the argument that it is hypocritical because of the stance on nuclear energy is unfair.
Why are people so supportive of paying more taxes?!?
Because they aren't going to be the ones paying.
This isn't funny, it is just true.
Mindless political theater.
I wish it was that innocent.. Between the masses of left-leaning have-nots and semi-retarded millennial generation, this is no innocent political theater.
What generation are you?
Semi-retarded millennial here, can confirm this is true
Just heard a DNC strategist say that, basically, Alexandra listens to her heart when she acts, but she forgets to bring her brain with her, so...
She was a bartender and waitress just a few years ago - not sure how she became a thought leader for the Democratic party. Displays the absolute lack of mid-bench talent the party has.
I love how the left parade the fact she was a bartender a few years ago. Just shows the lack of intellectual depth in the Dems
She took advantage of a political strategy that fringe groups have used to wrangle power from sane people. It uses the primary process to knock off long serving leaders who don't put effort into the primary process.
Who has said that she is a thought leader for the democrat party? Getting media attention does not make one a thought leader.
She's pretty cute. I'd plaster her face all over too. If it wasn't the DNC, maybe it'd be Harvey Weinstein to do it.
Half of it looks good, the other half looks terrible. I'm generally in favor of a green new deal but this isn't it.
What I don't understand is how they are trying to shoehorn a job and housing guarantee into something that's supposed to be an environmental resolution. Hate the job and housing guarantee, like the commitment towards investment in green energy and repairing U.S. infrastructure - would like a longer time horizon and more focus on free market solutions.
A guaranteed job is a terrible idea because it breeds laziness and waste. Think I'm wrong then go visit your local DMV or SSA office and see how "hard" those obese women and men work and why it takes them hours to process something that should take minutes.
Pork barrel legislation my friend, probably a lot of bridges to nowhere
You don't understand why? It is pretty simple, if you believe that people are willing to do anything to combat "climate change" you add tons of pork and other pet projects into this because you believe people will stomach it to cover what they like.
Because it isn't really a climate bill. It's a progressive economic plan. If this thing passesand this Sesame Street politican turns 35, we're going to have a socialist president, and I'm not sure what would stop her from going full blown commie.
“In favour of a green new deal” lol... whatever that means.
Daily global oil demand: 100 Million FUCKING Bbl/day and growing.
My favorite is the elimination of airplanes and building high speed trains over the oceans. For someone from New York, she seems to forget how inconsistent a subway train runs, let alone a bullet train in some 30 foot swells.
Yea bullet trains work in Japan, which is smaller than the size of California. But it is not realistic to think that will work and eliminate air travel across the entire U.S.
The hilarious part is that there are studies that have shown in some areas rail is less efficient than flight.
still plenty of years away from 100% renewables. Just not in the money.
The fact you even think 100% renewables is ever achievable should bar you from getting a job in finance where critical thinking is required. You sound like a dreamer university student.
PS. In my experience, assigning a zero probability to anything is is just as misguided as assigning a 100% probability. Maybe you don't belong in finance as much as ASUgrad2017 does not
I would not rule out the potential of 100% renewables in the next century. If that makes me "a dreamer university student" that shouldn't get a job in finance in your opinion so be it. I just happen to work in O&G Finance.
Pelosi herself, a very "green" California Democrat, seems to roll her eyes at this. It seems more theatre than actual policy.
Looking at the list and taking OP's word that those things are accurately representative of what the Green New Deal seeks to accomplish (I haven't had time to read it, only read about it) - some of the things are fantastic and absolutely necessary ideas, such as funding projects and strategies to build the US's capacity to face climate-related disasters, Repairing and upgrading US infrastructure, including "eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible," meeting all of the US's power needs through clean, renewable, and zero-emissions energy sources, Working with farmers and ranchers to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gasses "as much as technologically feasible," creating more growth in the clean manufacturing industry, overhauling US transport systems to reduce pollution and greenhouse gases, restoring and protecting fragile ecosystems, and I suppose "cleaning hazardous waste sites" even though I'm not sure who is arguing against that.
Other things, such as "upgrading or replacing every building in the country" are asinine. There are so many issues with that from a priority standpoint, a historic preservation standpoint, a cost standpoint, a positive impact standpoint, etc.
Finally, guaranteed jobs, replacing all air travel with trains, and no nuclear energy are just stupid ideas. We don't need to talk about the first, the second can't possibly happen, and the third is the opposite of "green."
One more aside is the uncomfortable tying of fighting climate change and supporting renewable energy to socialism. It's already incredibly frustrating how they are "liberal issues" and not "issues that face literally everyone in the world." Making them "socialist issues" will automatically entrench the opposition even further.
Let's write up a bill with the first half of your list and build the wall / border security w/ DACA instead of the second half. Trump would sign it today and we can all work toward the future.
Stop with this wall shit lmao. It's ineffective, costly, and a horrible idea for the environment
I'm just happy that the left finally has their Sarah Palin.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez and Mr. Markey, what you’ve just proposed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent plan were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on the planet is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
First off, whenever I see something like that which has all sorts of "Progressive" components, I immediately become derisive of it. If you read the context of the resolution, it highlights so much crap about social justice, equality, and other progressive targets that the environmental issues are forced to take a back seat. That said, my thoughts can be boiled down quite simply to this is essentially a Progressive Democrat road map for 2020. Everything they want that placates the far-left's need for identity politics, victimization politics, "Justice", and so on and so forth are outlined here. The majority of this resolution is entirely unattainable. Moving to clean, renewable, zero-emission energy sources in 10 years without the use of Nuclear Power is insane, especially when you consider that Nuclear is a zero-emission energy source. Just think about what would happen if Indian Point, the nuclear plant that provides NYC and Westchester with 25% of their power, were shut down and replaced. Even after replacing Indian Point with whatever it the GND considers environmentally friendly, clean, renewable and zero emission, NYC and Westchester would become importers of energy to make up for the deficit and see an increase in emissions, which is anathema to what the environmental portion of the GND is trying to do. Requiring all buildings to go green and overhauling infrastructure (which, don't get me wrong, we need to invest in fixing our infrastructure but that's a separate issue) to be green compliant is an impossibly high standard. All of the progressive components will be difficult to achieve because the GND is fundamentally saying that it wants to institute socialist concepts and effectively redistribute wealth. In examining the talking points set forth by AOC, it's pretty clear that this entire policy heavily relies on Modern Monetary Theory, which is by the scariest thing. Print until we can't print any more. This is an economic death knell created by unchecked issuance of debt. It's unattainable. Like everything else... it's a common theme across the GND.
However, being that it's a policy piece and a road map for 2020, it'll be interesting to see how the right challenges whomever is left standing based on this road map that appeals to the furthest left of the progressive wing of the democratic party.
Agreed on most things, but would like to point out that Indian Point is already scheduled to be shutdown 2020-21 with lost power generation likely to be replaced by natural gas. Indian Point has a long checkered history of mini disasters.
Yeah... Indian Point isn't the best choice, but it was easier to use that to prove the point (as it was much easier to find the percentage of power supplied to NYC) that it would have been using Seabrook, which powers part of Boston, or Oyster Creek, which powers part of Philly, than talking in hyperbole. I mean, I could have brought up Vermont Yankee too - which showed a similar effect in Vermont after they shut down their nuclear power plant.
With Indian Point shutting down, I can only assume that considerations were made to account for the changes in the amount of power being supplied to the region. However, given the GND, I honestly doubt issues like that will be considered when they shut down these facilities.
NOT MUH FOSSUL FUELS
Count how many items you touched today that are made of plastic. Now rethink your smug elitist attitude.
In related news, AOC would beat Trump in 2020 according to polls (which failed in 2016 anyway). She can't run for now, but she probably will if she manages to stay popular for the next decade.
She'll run in 2024 if a democrat doesn't win the presidency in 2020. And I think she has a good chance at winning. We live in this little WSO world where people don't love free stuff but... newsflash! People do. That's what she is offering, and they don't care about how to pay for it. Socialism the word is taboo for now, but how long will that last. People like "free" shit. And she's charismatic, photogenic, and the demographics are to her advantage. She has a very good chance in 2024 if Trump wins in 2020.
A reason independents and moderates to vote for a Biden/Sherrod Brown ticket?
I find it interesting that everything environmental has to be green. seems to me that this is toxic colourism (discrimination against other colors for you alt-right fascists). over 70% of the world is ocean (BLUE), most mass of trees is the trunk/bark/branches (BROWN), and most air is CLEAR. where's the green in that? just another plan to benefit the 1%, it's shameful the direction this country is headed. leave it to Washington to put forth racist policy wrapped in the cloak of progressivism.
...
Some of my close friends work in Nuclear Energy, and the discussions we have can be quite interesting. I am still all for nuclear energy.
That being said, this is more of a show of force for the Democratic party. I think she is also one of the proponents of taxing the rich (70% anyone?). I am not sure how she won, to be quite honest.
CRE - I know a lot of the leaders of the Democratic party, having met through at the DNC and knowing a handful of delegates. It's baffling. She is pretty much placed herself aside since there is very little support as she believes she is the "better" politician.
I sincerely doubt she will win re-election, or even a another chance at a political career.
The only way she loses is if she is primaried and I’d say that is fairly unlikely.
I strongly recommend you familiarise yourself with the principle of the ''intolerant minority'' by Taleb. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of…
In the long run, it's the uncompromising, stubborn, radical minority that prevails over the tolerant, silent majority. This is pretty clear in the US where political polarization is driven by activists, whose positions tend to be significantly more extreme than the median. The average Democratic moderate is terrified of being branded ''racist and sexist'' by the activist base and the Democratic leaning media, hence put up with nonsense. A good example is Ilhan Omar. She's pretty clearly an anti-semite, however she's also a non-white, non-Christian, non-man and that ranks her high in the oppressed scale of value of the left, thus she gets a free pass.
Calling out AIPAC isn't anti-semitic. Nor is criticizing Israel or Jewish people. What is good for Israel is not always good for the USA, even if much of the time it is.
Jews are open game for criticism just like everyone else in our (currently) free speech society.
She primaried a guy who didn't even try and only won by a few thousand votes, in a district that votes Democrat around 80%.
I do love the fact that four 2020 Democratic candidates came out in support of the GND before they read it. Very smart to endorse: (i) the abolition of air travel in favor of rail (Hawaii is fucked), (ii) the retrofitting of EVERY building in the U.S to be more environmentally friendly, (iii) the complete elimination of the use of fossil fuels w/in 10-years (which, according to the IPCC, may lower global temperatures by a whopping 0.2 degrees in 20-years, assuming the rest of the world's emissions don't outstrip the projections), (iv) wages and benefits for those unable or UNWILLING to work, (v) the nationalization of the energy industry and swaths of the financial industry, and (vi) the possible elimination of cows, and many more pragmatic and commonsensical goals.
"Possible elimination of cows..." my sides
I’m all in favor of environmental stuff because if we screw things up, the planet will be fine. WE ARE FUCKED
An infrastructure and reinvestment into America plan is EXACTLY what America needs, upgraded for sustainability. Me gusta.
On a side note, watch this. There is a very simple way to pull carbon out of the air while using cows etc. for real:
How did boomers create a generation of such colossal stupidity/ignorance that socialism is no longer a taboo word? I’m a (millennial) immigrant whose grandparents and parents lived through socialism, and believe me, socialism is dogsht. At some point you run out of other people’s money to pay for those who are unwilling to work. Wtf is the incentive to work?? Stop. Giving. Away. Free. Sht.
Didn’t the experiment with universal basic income in the Nordics fail recently?
I do like the infra investment idea — it’s absolutely necessary.
It's an endless cycle of stupidity my friend. The Republic will convert to Direct Democracy eventually, and Direct Democracy will vote in Socialism. Under Socialism the State will crumble and lead to the rise of Fascism/Civil War/Balkanization.
I'm stealing this.
ditto for life too, greatness comes through struggle.
I second this, also a kid from a socialist country. It doesn't work, will never work.
These MFers might just get Trump re-elected.
Might is an understatement.
Yeah. Correct move for dems this time around will be to run a moderate that can let trump out trump himself and mostly stand aside while that happens.
Instead they appear to be gearing up to run a bunch of shrill socialist hacks. Between a brash, dickish billionaire and a member of the sophomoric shrieking bartender/pocohontas group, america’s going to go with the brash, dickish billionnaire 100%, as they probably rightly should.
.
I have no problem paying higher taxes but I do have a serious issue with the way she wants to spend money. Completely inefficient.
Then you should have a problem with higher taxes.
.
Velit nisi ipsam veritatis consequuntur. Et id et fuga incidunt. Reprehenderit saepe et quidem nesciunt a consequatur quod quae. Accusantium repellat sed eligendi et provident id. Tempore deleniti sed sint saepe.
Voluptas hic quibusdam praesentium sunt. Dolorem voluptas voluptates ut veniam sit animi. Tenetur ipsa facilis soluta enim commodi omnis omnis qui.
In illo doloribus neque sunt voluptatibus ut et. Ipsum est soluta id magni voluptatem minus qui. Ut totam et nulla non et sunt ut ullam. Quis impedit provident a ut consequuntur architecto debitis.
Vel corporis et modi et saepe accusamus rem. Laudantium repudiandae neque eius ullam nemo error et. Nihil ut qui dolorum et.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Est dolor sunt consequuntur fugit qui. Vel earum ex harum non adipisci. Nulla nulla ea consectetur laboriosam cumque. Unde nulla repudiandae natus similique non. Delectus magni voluptas ipsam autem minima esse vel.
Molestiae consequatur facilis est cum ipsam harum dolores. Laborum doloribus praesentium accusamus rerum minima tempore.
Adipisci illo ducimus quaerat sunt sunt eveniet. Nostrum et fuga amet repellat. Perferendis dolores amet atque aperiam atque dignissimos quo quos. Aut ut dolores fugiat molestiae. Illum blanditiis aperiam libero corrupti illum at. Eos est totam magnam rerum ad.
Sunt aperiam recusandae quisquam corrupti similique. Tempora dolorem impedit voluptas repellendus non aut doloribus iste. Maxime aperiam eligendi et voluptatem. Quidem voluptatibus nesciunt reprehenderit sed dolor a.
Sapiente dolor natus sint autem. Libero ipsa itaque labore nisi dolorem doloremque sint. Aut ut deserunt consequatur nemo pariatur alias vitae.
Sunt quas laboriosam a sit consequatur quia. Quia eum vitae doloribus ab. Incidunt vero ex veritatis eos temporibus doloremque.
Dolores modi quasi dolor sint. Aut dolorum nam velit error. Nemo exercitationem quae mollitia at qui. Id et voluptatem officiis possimus. Autem quam dolores debitis rerum excepturi.
Autem sit et perspiciatis dolorem recusandae voluptatibus impedit in. Autem est aspernatur quis sequi cupiditate sit veritatis ab. Cum nostrum facere sit deserunt rerum voluptate architecto est. Nesciunt dolores excepturi odio tempora cumque facere. Magni non hic eius ex unde.
Fuga inventore eius ullam voluptates. Consequatur sit dolore repudiandae autem quasi in nisi. Provident qui unde et nihil. Iure corrupti voluptatem similique. Eum delectus asperiores repellendus esse iste repellat aliquam qui.