GS TMT/FIG and Want Out?
WSO,
I come to you with a real conundrum. For the past 2.5 years, I've been salivating over the prospects of one day making it to the promised land of the (emphasis on the) Goldman Sachs. Like a good little monkey I dreamed of being MD and shaking and and closing deals every day. Fast forward to now, I'm 3 months on the job at a "top group" (TMT/FIG) at GS and find myself miserable.
Its not the hours (ok the hours suck) but rather its the actual work that I dread every day as I make the trek to 200 West. It gives me the shakes thinking about making another client service book or working until 4am for a bakeoff that will go no where. Even on the two deals I've closed, I haven't gotten any real excitement. I spend all my free time reading seeking alpha and the like, dreaming about being anywhere but there.
My question to you, oh mighty WSO, is what should I do? I'm at a place so many people would give there right nut for, and I'm ambivalent at best on a good day. Do I stick it out and wait for HH's to contact me for HF's (dream opportunity) and go over the 18 month process, or is there an out for me any sooner? Has anyone heard of 1st year analysts leaving in the first 6 months? I'm acutally quite good at my job, so my performance is a non-issue and I'm pretty good at managing the unpredictability of the hours, but the work itself puts me to sleep. I'm almost too proud to say I made a misatke, but hey, maybe I made a mistake. Maybe the prestige of GS => PE => HBS blinded me form doing what I actually enjoy (investing and playing golf).
What you guys do in my shoes? All advice is welcomed, and please be candid about what you think is the best path.
Disclaimer: I'm actually quite active on the site, just posting on a double account as my real account would easily give away my identity and want some semblance of anonymity.
Know a guy who left a solid group at GS 6 months in to a hedge fund. The hiring is need based - some may even be looking for somebody now.
Headhunters will start contacting you shortly if they haven't done so already, and provided you don't blow things up, they will introduce you to opportunities if available.
Just hang in there - your patience will pay dividends.
Why do HFs want m&a guys so much. wouldnt they prefer guys from research?
M&A guys are seen as the "elite" hit squad from most banks, but GS really doesn't have an M&A group except in name only, all the industry groups are full execution.
But back to why HF's prefer bankers over research, is the candidate pool, as a whole (huge generalization) is viewed as more elite in IBD, so as a result HF's want to tap that pool, and it keeps with running tradition, so why break from the mold? Ex-IB guys will want to hire IB guys, plain and simple
Isn't it much harder to break into S&T though? When looking at the number of people hired into IBD and S&T this past summer the numbers would certainly suggest that.
Ditto on what Hbaj said.
Just hang in there bud. I'm a first year analyst myself and have been thinking the same exact thing to myself. Plenty of days where I want to quit, but I wake up and look at the analyst countdown and its one day less... Seriously though, your lucky to have closed two deals already, it will definitely give you a leg up in recruiting. All I can point to is the endless merger models I've run on "potential" $xx bn transaciton that we've been pitching and the share repurchase math I've run for 5 of my clients now.
It gets better (or we just get smarter and lazier). Hang in there. It'll be worth it in 24 months if you haven't landed a gig by then.
Hang in there. It'll be worth it in 24 months even if you haven't landed a gig by then.
Hang in there. It's much better than my current dilemma (unemployment).
To be quite forward 80% of this site loves investing and playing golf. You have an opportunity to realistically live that life/dream sooner then most people if you stay on your current career trajectory. Stick it out and in ten years you can thank me for the advice by paying for a golf vaca in Bermuda.
Everyone has to do their time, just like you.
There are two kinds of people in finance. One kind love to do deals. The other kind love to pick stocks. You might have aspired to be the former, but the fact that you spend your free time reading Seeking Alpha shows that you actually belong to the latter.
Amazon's looking for people. Throw on that old Nirvana shirt your mom was wearing when she delivered you back in '92.
It sounds like you have absolutely no reason for your "dream job(s)" or "goal(s)". The problem IMO is you lack any type of thoughtfulness in making your decisions other than chasing the most desirable opportunity available.
Why did you want to go to banking in the first place? You thought that was your dream job, now working at a HF suddenly is, why is that? I suspect you have no fucking idea.
Stop being such a lazy fuck and use your brain to actually THINK about what you want to do with your life. The amount we invest into our careers, its mind boggling how little thought most of us actually invest in the figuring out what we want to do.
Don't be such a mindless lemming or this misery is just the tip of the iceberg.
Could not agree more. Did two summers of IBD (currently undergrad at top target) and realized that it wasn't making me happy and that it was not aligned with my long-term career goals. Only did it because it was desirable and because everyone around me was doing it and trying to obtain it. I got sucked into that competition by being a brainless coward who was afraid to break away from the mold. Finally decided this month to drop it all and start recruiting from scratch. Also, this website doesn't help as it just places all these "top groups" on a pedestal and makes all other career opportunities look like failure.
Although I'm just some random senior in college, I'm going to take a stance opposite from many of the previous answers. Don't like it? Leave. Your early 20's are, as I've heard time and time again, the best years of your life. Physical peak and just hitting the real world. Ready and refreshed. Do you want to spend it in an office jail, working 80-120 hours a week at a job you find more or less miserable? No exit opps or comp will ever buy you that time back. You can buy health, love, and everything else under the sun - besides time. If you hate the job and hate the trajectory, GTFO. I have zero regrets about my decision. Looking deep inside yourself and asking yourself who you really are and what you really want to do is one of the most difficult things anyone can do. Unfortunately, no one can do that for you besides you. No one can tell you what to do next. This is you, all you. Admit you made a mistake, admit you are following career paths like a mindless robot based on what this forum says (this is exactly what I used to do), and wake up and live your life like you want to, not as an prison inmate for GS.
What are you planning on doing since you realized that IB wasn't for you?
I totally agree with your statement and think posts like these are more realistic and refreshing than common sentiment on this site at times.
Realized that one of the few things that actually got me excited was the idea of being an entrepreneur. I want to execute my own vision and build the skill set necessary to start and effectively grow out a business. IBD wasn't giving me that skill set. I was really good at understanding cash flows and assessing the financial health and viability of a company, like appropriate financing structures, but wasn't really seeing much on the qualitative side. Wasn't thinking so much about strategy, ops, and growth. Also, the role of the analyst is SO narrowly defined (build models and edit PPT presentations all day) that I was seeing very little marginal benefit from continuing there and getting a great PE job, which still would not make me happy and would not having me doing what I wanted to do.
So what does that mean for me now? Not sure yet. I think consulting, VC, growth equity, and working at a start-up are all better options for me. However, I also think it's ridiculous to take a one-size-fits-all approach with recruiting and say that this exact job exactly builds my ideal, exact target skill set. I'm going to take it on a case-by-case basis and see how each role at each firm fits into my personal goals, and then also heavily weigh my lifestyle, quality of life, and happiness at each role. If I had to sum it up, I think this forum focuses too much on where/what we want to be in 10 years versus WHO we want to be in 10 years, and now I'm focusing more on the WHO. Not saying IBD is bad/evil - it's phenomenal training for certain career paths, but just not my cup of tea.
Its also why you see so many overly ornate and romanticized accounts of life on Wall Street.
So many junior people that end up here very quickly realize the reality of working in this industry is quite different. By that point they've already sold themselves on it, told anyone that's willing to listen (and a bunch that aren't) that they are going to work on Wall Street and expended quite a bit of effort to get here.
So they just delude themselves into believing the false reality that they initially sold themselves on.
Surprisingly as smart and driven as these people are, when their 2 years are up they make the same mistake all over again and go double-or-nothing on a career path that is marginally different.
I believe the words would be disenchanted --> delusional --> stupid.
The cost of going into the wrong career/job gets significantly higher the further out of college you get and the longer you move along that same wrong path. My advice to you guys is to be wrong early and be smart about it. No one is going to hold it against you for thinking you may like an unknown and then it turns out you got a part of the equation wrong and you don't infact like it. But if you get it wrong and stubbornly stay married to the wrong path because of self-imposed social pressures, that's just completely fucking stupid and negates any superior level of drive/ambition/intelligence you think you may possess from academic/monetary achievement.
Very well said Marcus. I believed I had my life figured out: IB-->PE???>happily ever after. Took a step back and realized how miserable that would make me and how unstimulating I found it. Really contemplated hard wondered when I became such a robot.
I think there should be a general thread for fresh monkeys re: career and goals where such points should be emphasized for all GS-->KKR = euphoria crowds..
When you end up at these "promise land" destinations you realize how miserable your life would be if you were standing in any one of your seniors' shoes and the fact that it never really get better. It takes a certain type of person to soldier through a GS->MF type track and that type of person (purely my own opinion) is a sad one... one who feels so desperate to prove something to other people that they sacrifice almost everything to get there. I've seen grown men in the office until 12-2 AM while they've got a newborn baby at home. That's just the most depressing life imaginable... the fact that you would rather be at work than with your newborn infant is pretty pathetic.
The Goldman Sachs?
Survive at least 12 months. Man the fuck up.
Survive 12 months why? He already knows he doesn't like it. Just for the sake of saying he was a banker for a year? To prove something to himself?
I'd say the smarter route would be to pull the rip chord. If you were dating a girl and after 7 months you realized you absolutely cannot stand her... would you "man the fuck up" and make a round 12 months?
Survive 12 months why? He already knows he doesn't like it. Just for the sake of saying he was a banker for a year? To prove something to himself?
I'd say the smarter route would be to pull the rip chord. If you were dating a girl and after 7 months you realized you absolutely cannot stand her... would you "man the fuck up" and subject yourself to misery for another 5 months just to make it a nice round number?
Bad comparison. Staying with a girl you don't like for 5 more months does not bring any benefits whereas staying a little longer at Goldman at least increases your bank account significantly and strengthens your resume so that you have a better change of doing whatever you want after you quit. I'm not saying the OP should remain in banking too long if he doesn't like it, but staying in a little longer to obtain certain benefits really isnt such a bad idea.
Recruiters will come knocking in January at the 5-month mark. Take their calls, explain that you're interested in HF rather than PE, demonstrate it, and they'll line up interviews. People have left both of those groups at the 6-month, 9-month, 12-month, 18-month, x-month mark. It happens.
If you don't want to let the PE process pass you by, participate, see what offers you get, and if you're willing to sign one and then mentally ease up on yourself for the remaining 18 months of your analyst stint, go that route. Although if you're in the 2013 analyst class, you don't get the analyst contract, so there's nothing preventing you from doing whatever it is you want. You don't have the bonus to lose if you exit early.
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