Happiness for WSO
So what is happiness? Is it a series of chemical reactions in your brain brought about by arbitrary worldly phenomena? Does it lie in your external portrayal to the world, through either your fame or degree of wealth? Or perhaps, is it much deeper than that?
if you think for a second of social conventions and think of the human consciousness, there is an extreme lack of relevance between the two. On the one hand, social conventions are the result of arbitrary interactions and the interconnection between humans and their subsequent development throughout human history. On the other hand, human consciousness, like the waves of the ocean is a part of nature. It is a universal concept and it can only be illuminated from within, for our consiousness lies within us and no where else.
I can see some people reading this right now and their response and everyone on this site generally has something to say. The reason why is because everyone needs to justify their lives and world view in some way shape or form. So all of a sudden a topic comes up that you've either recently heard on CNBC, been raised by your parents into thinking, or influenced by the rich people you've caddied for as a boy, or perhaps heard from a sophisticated Harvard professor, and you need to defend your world views. Its not that you truly think you know something, it is that you NEED to know something. You need answers and clarity so badly, because how else could you live? A life without clarity and direction, to most people in our society is a sad, pointless existence, and the reason is because it seems so painful to not wake up and the morning and constantly tell yourself 'hey, ok so I am going to do very well on this test, then get a banking job, then make a lot of money etc' as you tell yourself this you are simultaneously looking to make this life become a reality. As you start to get the 4.0, get the job etc. you begin to feel as though your life is meaningful and now its: 'hey, I have a competitive job and a big bonus, so I am no happy', and for most simple minded folk this can work, and bllind ignorance is truly bliss.
However, what about happiness? Is it superficial or is it deep? Does it lie within our consciousness or at Blackstone? The problem is that Blackstone is an arbitrary human construct. It has developed as a result of interconnections throughout human history, perhaps the history of this universe, but lacks its own nature. The world today could very well be a world, where peole who don't wipe themselves are the famous ones. It can be a world, where the fatter you are, the more attractive you are. Perhaps, even the more facial hair you have the more successful and endowed you are. However, these are all arbitrary social phenomena. We could be in these societies with a filthy nose and ass, with a huge beard, and 400lbs, and think we are the pinnacle of human existence. We would then be successful, like a rich blackstone partner is exalted.
There'd still be debates in these socieites, very much like our own, but the agenda is already set for the dichotomy between wipers and non-wipers, hairy people and hairless people etc. So these bright harvard professors in this society would write about the correlations between wiping and facial hair etc. and dealve deep into, without realizing the glasses covering their eyes. I mean it is one thing to dissect the world around us based on our experiences, but how can we ever begin to question our eyes? It is a part of us, or so we think, but we can go our entire lives without realizing we are wearing the glasses of: rich family from greenwich, CT; hippy, liberal at Swathmore; 'fiscal conservative'; scientist... etc. We all develop these unfortunate glasses very early on in life. Did they always exist? No, absolutely not. But as these arbitrary notions caught on over the years, and the media gets louder, and the social influence bigger, we are unfortunately bred in these environments. We are wearing the glasses of these objects, without realizing we may have never actually used our own god-given eyes.
I am not saying, it is bad to be an investment banker, trader or w-e one may do, but we all need to realize this is not the meaning of our lives, they are arbitrary, and we shouldn't attach ourselves to them. Theoretically, we can live in a veyr developed society at this point. We can have this enormous economy, with huge advances in science and technology, and we can also be natural, and true humans. Yet we have the former and not the latter. We forgot that humans don't serve the grand economy and the field of science, rather it is them that are servants of our world, for they are our own creations. But as the media gets louder, and these arbitrary social conventions get further perpetuated, we are breeding robots. We are brainwashing our own and future generations, perhaps 1,000 years of civilization has been brainwashed, and 999 A.D was a seminal year in our existence. It is irrelevant, but what is important is that while we develop our society further, we keep it all in perspective.
Are you really going to let CNBC, your rich gated community, MNC's, politicians etc. tell you what the meaning of life is. You may not buy into what they say, but whether you know it or not, the agenda has been set for us to view the world in a certain light. We question under the veil of this encompassing agenda. And at the same time, we aren't humans no longer; what we are is an amalgamation of CNBC, Barak o'bama, hollywood, and all of these larger than life things, society puts on a pedestal.
Honestly, what are these things and who are these very arrogant, blind people claiming to be prophets? Barak o'bama, save the world? Ha! is this going to happen over night Mr. President? Will we all wake up tomorrow, enlightened into the mystery of our nature and the universe? Will war be over forever? Will we stop hunger and extreme poverty? Pollution and environmental problems? or perhaps the pre-packaged ignorance we serve to future generations? Or perhaps the complete lack of understanding and compassion between humans? I mean the list goes on.... However, we all truly buy into the notion that somehow: "economic growth+health care+ advances in science+ nationalism etc"= meaning of life.
The universe has evolved from nothing into what it is today. We are made of the same stuff that the stars and planets are made of. We came from nothing essentially, and now I am typing on my computer. Over the process, not only has the universe evolved but so have humans. Now the question is this: can life be read? can life be had in a single lecture from some professor? can it be found on wall street? Perhaps we should realize that life can only be had through life. Living it very naturally, without attachment. Living it with a open mind and heart. At the end of the day, we are all humans. Warren Buffet, Barak Obama etc. these icons of our generation know no more than we do. They are humans. They merely are representative of our arbitrary notions of material progress and meaning.
Don't be afraid to say Warren Buffet isn't very bright. Or that barak obama isn't God (haha). Or perhaps whether you work at blackstone or KKR or Goldman doesn't matter. Or that economic growth isn't a good thing. Or that scientific progress is unethical. I don't hold to any of these, but it is just as fundamentalist and radical to blindly accept these notions as it is to reject them. And at the end of the day, it isn't a matter of acceptance or denial of these things but an acknolwedgement that their material form doesn't matter. They are arbitrary. They could alwasy be different.
I don't have a problem with anyone on this site, obama, buffet or any of these people. I truly understand where they came from. Obama was raised as a black kid in the U.S, of course he'd want to be president. Most of the kids on the site grew up in upper/middle class areas, at top schools, of course they are going to want to make a lot of money or become famous. Hey, i grew up the same way, and I was always so afraid to question these notions of success because something was radically missing. It is like our view of the universe. Before we knew about quantum mechanics, things didn't make much sense. It is the same thing here. If you dealve deep into the values of our society, you'll find the quarks. And eventually the process will take you from looking at Blackstone to looking at yourself and at your life. I'm not saying to give up everything and live in the woods somewhere, or to quit your search or job, or anything like that... but realize that it is ok also if you do do that. We are so highly developed at this point, we have so much at the press of a button: food, technology, clothes etc. if anything the 21st century could be a cross roads for our civilization. Whether we realize, hey we have all we need to survive, make things better here and there if we want, study the universe and science, lets now work on making sure the next generations have the opportunities to be great humans. or perhaps it'll be, lets progress and progress until we are robots or w-e may happen.
Either way, no matter where you end up, be a good human, put things in perspective, don't be greedy, and have compassion.
wow... longest post ever
Uhhh...I guess there is some truth in here, but take your peyote elsewhere dude.
You forgot to add a signature:
write shorter posts.
tl;dr
what are you smokin' bro?
puff puff give, homie. Youre fcking up the rotation.
This guy is I'm sure just fuc#ing with everyone. No one could be that dumb or concerned with the actual content of the post. Even though I'm joining in on this, we all ought to really ignore stupid posts like this.
Perhaps I should've prefaced, sorry about that: I'm not a long-haired, tripped out, hippy. I've actually never done drugs before in my life (trying to figure out how some got that impression) and I am an investment banker at a BB firm
Although, I know it feels better to label me as a drugged out, hippy ( i would've prob done the same when I was in college)... but the only point of the post was to get people thinking a bit, perhaps get an actual dialogue going with people who have legitimate objections or agree.
Honestly, if someone proves me wrong or has something valuable to offer, I would be very happy b/c that's really the only way to develop and learn. How strong are your beliefs if your too afraid to constantly question them? How strong are you, if you are to afraid to consider an alternative view point?
No-one is afraid to consider your alternative view point, they just don't have the time to read it.
Good point... I probably wouldn't read it either
I read it and thought it was interesting. So i also assume that you are agnostic / don't believe in god or religion, etc...? "Deep thoughts" / alternative views are always welcome here on WSO. One of the main points of this site is to allow overworked financiers an outlet to express themselves and to challenge one another. So feel free to write away - much better than some of the other shit on here.
-Patrick
Ditto. blackandred, I'm sure it's a good post, but it's just frustratingly long. Needs to be about 1/3 the length for ppl to even take it seriously.
The mark of a smart man is his ability to ponder a thought, any thought, before dismissing it.
To those above with two second attention spans, articulation and the eloquence of communication lies in the ability to share an idea in its entirety.
Brevity is also appreciated though.
isnt real. people get bored. they can't exist in a state of what buddhists call dharma having been raised in this culture. read some tolstoy. get a girlfriend. youll never be truly happy, few are.
the human brain likes reward, once you get it for the first time, youre hooked. the true buddhists never had that first reward. im not talking about ghandi, im talking about that guy who lived in a temple behind the waterfall and never spoke to anyone. he didnt have a name. he never slept and existed in a bizarre state of consciousness like an idiot savant.
i accept that i need reward to get happiness. money is a great reward. drugs are a good reward too. but you can amass an infinite amount of money if you want, and youll be in a modern state of dharma. if you have too many drugs, youll just die.
I did my best at reading your post and probably caught 75% of it. You state that you aren't trying to hate on investment banking as a career, but it almost seems like you are hating on careers in general. Almost no one would work if money was not an issue unless it was for a cause they really cared about, like at a non-profit.
Let's face it, people are in IB for the money. We all would be happier working 40 hours a week at some corp finance gig, but this pays better and sets one up much better for success down the road. It's really just a means to an end. Working on Wall St. is not happiness, but it helps an individual become more financially secure which can bring happiness. Ya, "money does not buy happiness"... I'd say that's BS. I get where it comes from, but if you want to travel, see the world, have new experiences, etc. etc., you obviously need the funds for it and banking is going to get you to the point where you can afford it quicker.
Interesting post, albeit long as hell. Just as a disclaimer, my viewpoints come from me as a college student, not a current banker. Starting at a BB in a few months though.
Btw, red parrot the state of mind your talking about is called enlightenment or nirvana... dharma refers to the buddhist doctrines. But it is a little deeper than that. I can't say that people can come to this realization as a college student, I know I prob wouldn't have been able to. Enlightenment isn't a temporary state of mind, and it doesn't come in 10 minutes of reading a post, traveling the world, or thinking about it for a few days. Don't be so quick to write off Buddhism. Zen Buddhists, in their own way, seek enlightenment through rigorous meditation and working with a Zen master... they are working towards a state of liberation where you completely rid yourself of your ego and find something deeper. For some very open minded people, they can come to the same realizations without doing what is called zazen or working with a zen master, but the whole point of going to a monestary or doing Zazen is that it is sometimes so difficult to awaken in the world we live in, of constant bombardment with news, ideologies, ignorance etc.
Also, i am certainly not hating on all careers, as I said earlier I'm a banker. although, perhaps instead of maximizing material standards of living as a form of economic incentive, we can "maximize well being while minimizing consumption". Wouldn't that be the ideal economy? For the past few centuries, capitalism has been premised on the notion "if you give a dog a bone....". In other words, it insults human potential. Yes it is free to some extent, rewards creativity etc. (some of the better, more just features in the theoretical model of course) but it basically treats humans as though they are animals. "we need to create incentives for people to be good people"- well then are they really good? "we need to have regulations to make the world a better place"- well if we need regulations, is the world really the best it can be.
Of course changing and liberating our system can't happen over night, and I am definitely not advocating a Soviet style or Chinese style totalitarian communist state, or a huge gov. presence like in modern day Europe. But, now that we have developed so much in terms of allocating resources we can begin to branch out to other more intangible spheres, that of making human civilization realize its potential of being good people and living freely without arbitrary attachments. Again, it can't and won't happen over night. Similar to how the universe and humanity has evolved and developed, the best we can do is sow the seeds.
Think back to 9/11. Do you remember how everyone acted towards eachother in NYC and everywhere else. We all we're so friendly, understanding, and compassionate towards one another. We were still going to work everyday, but we realized, there are more important things in this world. Unfortunately, the openess and warmheartedness was more a function of fear and emotions than any deep realization.
Last comment, promise... think to yourself as your working on a deal, or reading a new deal on deal book or going to pitch. "this deal will create X and Y synergies, and X and Y affect on GDP, and be accretive by this, or have this IRR", and while you say this think to yourself how many other problems there are in the world. There are unnecessary wars ripping apart the African continent, extreme xenaphobia and instability between western/eastern relations, extreme poverty and famine all over the world, human traficking and slavery, radical religous fundamentalism, murder/crime rates in the inner cities, environmental problems, injustice, ignorance etc. Before we, as the so called 'creators of value' take another step on this deal, realize it is like being concerned about getting your new yacth waxed and cleaned before you go on a trip while the twin towers are falling down... the only difference is that we still have the opportunity to make little changes, no matter how small. We went from a hot gas explosion billions of years ago to what we are today (not an atheist to clarify); we all influence the world in someway or another, the question is whether we are developed enough to try and harvest the seeds for a better future or whether we will be overwhelmed by the fact that it can't happen over night or perhaps in this lifetime to do nothing at all or make it worse. Or perhaps too scared to tell your friends or parents, or MD. I'm not saying we should all move to Africa, join the peace corps etc. like some very radical left wing college kids. But as we talk about creating value, think about what it really means and realize we can do it everyday just by being good people to one another and understanding. We're all humans here, we don't need to fight eachother, insult eachother, go to war with one another, be petty with one another... we aren't dogs, no matter how simple and easy it is to think life boils down to a few % points in GDP. The last thing we need is a prophet (i.e. Obama) claiming he can change the world. Man was created equal, and I promise Obama or anyone else throughout history is no more special than any of us. We can all create value, we just not get paid a huge bonus, or be famous for doing it.
Blackandred,
I feel as you do (I suspect) that humans are basically good rather than basically evil. However, I think your view doesn't take into account the genetic lottery. Yes, we are all created equal, we are all human, we will all live for however long we live and then we will all die. But there is the random factor of chance thrown into the mix where some sperm become the 50%+ of the human population that subsists on $2 per day or less, and some become Paris Hilton, Lloyd Blankfein, or any of the Walton kids.
Unfortunately, the sperm who hit the lottery and can therefore have the biggest impact on those who don't generally aren't interested in the equitable distribution of their assets. Far worse, they endeavor to collect the assets of those beneath them in the genetic lottery, for the most part.
TARP is a prime example of this.
You talk about how we felt about each other after 9/11, and the good vibrations were strong and mutual for a good while. However, never forget that there were people on the phone buying puts on airline stocks the minute the first plane hit the towers (of beforehand, depending upon who you believe). These are the same people who are firmly in charge of the planet, and they're not going anywhere.
To speak to your original point, I would posit to you that happiness primarily stems from external stimuli (my Saints are 12-0, for example) while joy can exist in even the most miserable circumstances. Visit an orphanage in a 3rd world country and you're likely to find both horrific conditions and a bunch of kids having a good time in spite of it.
Here is a video on your Saints:
you misunderstood... the point of the post was to point out the arbitrariness of notions of success, 'value creation', and other social conventions and our unfortunate attachment to them as well as human potential to actually live a natural life, where the only things one is attached to is their consciousness. The people who bought puts or shorted airline stocks aren't bad people inherently, they've been consumed by their unfortunate surrounding environment, that exalts making $ and greed at the expense of their own lives. Southwest airlines, stock exchanges, calls/puts are a recent development. No one is born wanting to make money; there is no need for it. The notion of making money is a social development, and greed is a human construct not an inherent human quality.
Yes we are social creatures, and this is the reason that despite being born without any recollection or understanding of making money, we can breed generations to care about nothing else; similar to how kids can learn languages at a young age they can acquire human flaws passed down over generations. What's worse is that most of these people don't know of any alternatives or the fact that they are so brain washed. Obsessing over sports isn't an inherent quality either, its a social phenomena that gives unathletic people a chance to seem knowledgeable and manly. Again a very much social phenomenoa, brought about by arbitrary social notions as well as consequent human fraility and insecurities., which are a function of these social notions as well. Most of mainstream values are arbitrary human constructs brought about by insecurities, perpetuated by power mongering over generations (i.e. Napoleonic complex and the man himself).
Hence we're born into a world where insecure people who didn't feel comfortable enough to just live needed to assert themselves materially over everone else, because that was the only way to satisfy their inherent insecurities and mental complexes. They couldn't do it by developing themselves so they did it by controlling others then perpetuating a notion that this control was somehow a portrayal of development and success. Eventually this gave way to intellectual agenda setting, which was a function of the inherent insecurity of a handful of people.
Think hard (not 15 seconds, which is the time limit that arrogant people usualy have to remember that they have answers) at whether you need to have a mercedes, designer clothes, a patek philipe, a $10million house in the hamptons, when a 2 bed room place would do fine, a hummer vs. a prius, a harvard degree verses studying on your own and perhaps learning more, alcohol or drugs etc. You don't need any of it. These are social creations. the unfortunate part is (and I know this because I am also a product of this environment), most people never realize what it actually means to live. They ask questions such as 'what is the meaning of life', and rather then toying with it for years remaining open to possibilities and growing alongside it, people think about it a night after they see some interesting movie, then wake up the next morning and go about their very arbitrary and meaningless lives. The only thing we really have is ourselves, everything else can be different.
As you watch the Saints game, appreciate the focus and talent of the athletes and the sheer spirit of competition, vs. worrying about... (actually have no idea why fans go so crazy when their teams lose). But either way, I can empathize with why you do obsess over them. It is something you can talk about at work. You can appear manly as you scream at the screen as though you born to care about this. You can seem like you are knowledgeable about something by talking about how the Saints are going to win the super bowl b/c X, Y , and Z. Why would you not think any otherwise, everyone does it. Similar to how everyone needs to have something to say about politics: "oh that o'bama is the greatest thing in the world" or "obama is killing our country with health care or w-e else". Most educated poepple on the subjects aren't so sensationalist anyway. But as we do this at barbeques, parties, and other social events, we feel good. Because it is esteemed to know something on politics in this society, hence you seem educated although you further perpetuate your ego and deep seated insecurities (no matter how much money you have).
The fact that the waltons and blankfein and a handful of people control the world as you say is not a good thing... i don't know why anyone would think it would be. The point of my post wasn't so people would transform themselves in 5 minutes after reading the post, but perhaps open their eyes a little bit as they are living it. Realizing that we don't have to be slaves to previous generations of insecurities and intellectual toil. We can think for ourselves, develop, and further evolve. We don't need to drop everything and live in the mountains, but we can actually live somewhat of a natural live (in touch with how we were born), by using our own eyes. Rahter then living in an arbitrarily defined results-driven world, we can actually live for the sake of we know of nothing else we're capable of doing. Rather than drinking at the next social function, you'll try to act like a civilized human being that can have conversations and doesn't feel awkward because they aren't loud and obnoxious. Rather than going to work everyday and burying yourself in making money, perhaps go to work while allowing yourself to struggle with the uncertainties of life. Rather than writing off people who have a view different than yours, you spend as much time considering their view, than the time you put into confirming your own. You get my point.... At the end of the day there is no alternative to living openly, because everything else doesn't matter. It could all be different. Ethics is not some much some arbitrarily defined social concept, it is merely the respect for life and nature.
13-0 now, by the way.
^^ LONGEST. POST. EVER.
-comic book guy
Blackandred,
I give you credit for attempting to bring up some heady subjects and start a real conversation about value creation and materialism etc etc...thanks for taking the time. It is unfortunate that many highly educated (and presumably brainy folks) take to financial professions right out of college instead of pursuing paths that might not be as well paid but may provide greater long-term benefits for our culture/humanity etc etc...and then rationalize this decision with myopic, individualistic and capitalistic etc defense mechanisms without considering the alternatives or looking at that life objectively... Sometimes we could all benefit from taking a step back and examining our priorities. "The unexamined life is not worth living" -- Socrates apparently said that in defense of his teaching his students to "think differently." But then again, in the end, the guy drank the hemlock. We aren't guaranteed much in life, other than (hopefully -- I mean it is in the constitution) a shot at being happy. Relativism it may be, but what constitutes "happy" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. If, for you, it means posting slightly self-indulgent blog entries and questioning conventions, paradigms with second hand Eastern philosophy, power to you. If for someone else, it means going beating up Yankees fans whenever the chance arises, great. If it's making money, yippee. Who cares? We're not here for very long. If it makes us happy to advance the human race, terrific. Otherwise, as long as you don't infringe too much on other people's happiness (play fast and loose with toxic subprimes), there ain't nothing wrong with trying to steal a few laughs, a few bucks, and a few titties -- even if that's at the cost of enlightenment. I'm not justifying ethical/spiritual lethargy, hopefully just being realistic. I think people (as high-functioning/intelligent organisms) get to those questions when they're ready for them.
[quote=DoctorEvil]Blackandred,
I give you credit for attempting to bring up some heady subjects and start a real conversation about value creation and materialism etc etc...thanks for taking the time. It is unfortunate that many highly educated (and presumably brainy folks) take to financial professions right out of college instead of pursuing paths that might not be as well paid but may provide greater long-term benefits for our culture/humanity etc etc...quote]
I've discussed this issue with a number of people about how our society makes it difficult for people to pursue jobs that "create value and benefit our culture/humanity".
Graduating from college, assuming you dont' already have thousands of dollars in loans and other debt, if you want to live anywhere decent in a major city whether it's NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. it's extremely difficult to live there if you don't have a well paying job.
Funny thing is also, it's all the people who work in Wall Street, Big Law, Big 4 Accounting, and so forth that drive up the cost of living in these cities for everyone else. (You seriously think if Wall Street didn't exist a crappy closet Manhattan studio would cost $2000/month?)
What are those well-paying jobs that allow you to live in places like Manhattan? Banking, trading, consulting, accounting, big law firms, etc. Jobs that are well respected but in terms of actual contributions to society as a whole... minimal...
I'm sure there are several people who would like to pursue jobs that benefit the world like your non-profits, Obama-esque jobs like a community organizer (the dude was only paid $13,000 a year), and other community organizations. But let's face it... the daunting thought of minimal pay trying to scrap by in one of the larger major cities is a pretty daunting task...
So assuming you're at the top of your classes coming from undergrad... you can either follow your heart, make awful money, but be happy that you're contributing to society... or you sell out and you work for big money... and maybe with sights of being able to take your experiences and either being able to pursue those positive opportunities later in your career or use the network you've built working to do so.
Fortunately there are people who are brave enough to pursue the first path and pursue their passions without the money.
You misconstrued what I said. I'll say it shorter. I'm not making a claim for any right material path to happiness (posting on WSO when I am working; watching sports etc.) that is not happiness to me by any means. Happiness is not pleasure, in other words its not the consequent chemical reaction you get from participating in some arbitrary activity. It is a deep understanding for life, that is all. It is the ability to accept it, live with it, and do it with as little presumption as possible. I make money, a lot of money actually... but I donate most to charities, and live very simply with my wife. Its not that we never got pleasure from such things at watching sports etc., we still do because its entertaining... but we don't need it. If someone took away alll of our forms of leisure, we'd be able to live without them. Like I keep saying, they are arbitrary, and could be different. The one constant in all of our lives is the present moment. Its really the only testament to life. Instead, we're raised to think of highschool in middle school, college in highschool, job or b school in college, promotion or board of directors while working, house in the hamptons and retirement, then it starts all over with our kids lives.
I have zero political agenda, just really been bored at work recently and wanted to see what the next generation of wall street people had to say, if anything. Most of the responses are something i prob woulld have given when in college (ignorance and arrogance are some of the constants of the past few generations), but life is not a means to an end. It certainly isn't a means to increase our economy or scientific progress ( i don't see how anyone could ever confidently say such a thing). Whether we live in 5000 B.C.E, 1500 A.D or 3,000 A.D, we are humans in each period. The only real goal we should have as a people is to live in the present moment, and it certainly doesn't matter if we have GDP of the U.S or Gambia to say we are living the right way. THat doesn't mean take acid and dance around in the corn fields, or not to support and help sustain our economy, it means just living for the sake that there is nothing else we can do. We are part of this grand universe... we know to some extent how it came about (i.e. big bang), but there is not one scientist out there who can answer the question why? to any of this. Rather than spend our time in the dark, thinking making money is important and in many ways relying on it to give us a sense of worth, the only thing we can do is live as naturally as possible to perhaps gather some wisdom over the years, or simply for the sake that we can do nothing else. Relying on materialism or your sports for your worth, denies your very existence. It denies your ability to live. If your truly human you don't see east, west, north or south. These are arbitrary classifications. The only thing you should see is life and truth... i would certainly hang with Gandhi or the Dalai Lama, befor I met with buffet or obama. Does that make me anti-american... not really, it doesn't matter one way.
Happiness for WSO= not reading ridiculously long posts
One of the best threads in a while.
In order to fully appreciate whats been written here, one needs to take a giant step back and put on a fresh perspective.
There is an old Chinese saying that"壁立千仞，无欲则刚" best summerizing what you've conveyed. Really I can't agree more on your conclusion "Be a good human, put things in perspective, don't be greedy, and have compassion". Very enlightened view~~~~
agreed. and we must not forget the monk who lived behind the waterfall
i think there many ways to happiness...for a kid, getting a new toy or ice cream = happiness. hopefully, as you grow up, your happiness is grounded in something less fleeting and more substantive. for me, happiness is striving for and obtaining my goals. now, i understand that those goals are all shaped and influenced by society. they have to be. humans don't exist in a vacuum. we are social creatures and it's inevitable that our desires and goals and thoughts are shaped by our community. but i disagree with the OP that just because we base our happiness on desires and goals shaped by others that it's somehow not "true" happiness, or a lesser form of happiness.
you talk about how making money and watching sports are all driven by insecurities. i don't think so, but even if that were the case, that doesn't make the happiness we derive any less legitimate. scientific progress could not have happened without insecurity and meglomania. i don't agree that true happiness is only possible in a state of "enlightenment" where we eschew everything deemed a "social construct". you say happiness "is a deep understanding for life, that is all. It is the ability to accept it, live with it, and do it with as little presumption as possible." That may be one way to happiness, but i think people who live their whole life conforming to social standards can also be happy. you don't need to be radical in order to be happy.
your young... it shows. There's very little I can tell you or say to you to make you understand. I was just as head strong as a blind, ignorant college kid. Hopefully, you are open, and hopefully as you grow up you don't remain as a little kid. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with being young, just as long as you grow with an open mind.
As for science. Your way off is all i'll say. Tell me the relevant connection between scientific and philosophical advancement and insecurity? Your a dog, let me throw you a bone
For thos people who conform to social standards, they find pleasure, but they aren't happy... they are blind to their nature and blind to the world. You don't understand happiness. the term 'Happiness' is just a proxy or word for something larger... you can't communicate happiness, if you understand happiness. It is enlightenment. but you can't understand enlightenment unless you find it. Shut your mouth and open your eyes. You have nothing to say. And neither do I.
You know words. You point to glass steagle as the reason for the crisis. We point to the great depression for the rise of hitler. We point to regulations for this and regulations for that. These are words. We wrote them. It isn't it. It is only humans. It is hard to see the human through all of the buildings, but we made them, and we sit inside of them. The crisis, wars, crime everything you see that you find wrong with the world and try to seem educated by pointing out its finite cause (i.e. crisis caused by glass steagal), is caused by people. People write the laws. People run the companies. Yet we see glass steagle, we see the bail out, we see the currency crisis of 1997 and the capital flight, but no one sees people. And that is all there is. Like you said the world doesn't exist in a vaccum. You impact the world around you. Whether you realize it or not, but the waiter at the restaurant impacts your life. My only point is to clear through the shit and excess clutter of this arbitrary world, and point to what's real. Humans. Liberation isn't the privlege of a few brave philosophers or w-e. It is the rite of life. It is all that is there. Liberated society is a utopian society. We should be marching towards it, yet we still see the finite causes and words verses what is really here. Ignorance is fake. Enlightenment is real. Only enlightenment can be lived... yet you live in the world of glass steagle and the american dream. It doesn't exist. Seeing life and cause where there isn't is ignorance. This is seeing the sup-prime crisis as a crisis of glass steagle or the rating agencies. This isn't life, these are words. The tragedy lies in this prepackaged message of seeing cause where there is no cause. the only cause is nature. You need to see the world for what it really is, and if you don't you aren't living.
Keep disputing me with these pre-packaged, meaningless palatitudes that have been rammed into our brains since grade school. These words are meaningless. Dispute me with math. Dispute me with quarks. but please don't dispute me with objects and molecules, and claim your saying anything at all. My message is very simple; and its so intuitive and lucid, yet it scares you. The big bang scared theologians for the longest time, yet that is all that is there. Your unfortunate attachment to the things you see isn't happiness, it is ignorance, nothing more.
wow, you really must like the sound of your voice. i guess you really derive happiness out of telling other people they're not happy, or if they think they're happy, they're really not. what makes you think your definition of happiness is also "true happiness". haha, what a joke.
"Shut your mouth and open your eyes. You have nothing to say. And neither do I." Hmmm, if that is the case, why are you rambling on an internet forum? I write a paragraph, you respond with an essay (poorly written one, at that). seriously, at first i thought you were being introspective, now i see you're just a jerk who likes to claim superiority over others.
did you just take a philosophy course or read a book on existentialism? what, you didn't think you're the first one to question meaning of life and happiness? if what i'm saying is "pre-packaged, meaningless platitutdes", then that applies equally to your trite ramblings.
I came on here, because i work in the industry, I see an imperfect system, and know what its like to be an arrogant banker. No i've never read a book on existenialism and rarely read other philosophers, aside from a few classics. I studied finance at Wharton. I write because while I don't need anyone to do anything, the world could be better and more harmonious if people opened up a bit more.
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. I have no infinite wisdom to impart. It is so simple. And my only point which no one really gave due credence (perhaps the inherent ADD of the financial community), is to see through the clutter of what is really there.
"trite ramblings"
.
Happiness is not an easy thing to find.
It takes a few steps...
Honesty Treating people with compassion rather than as ends. Having love in your life; to love and be loved in return - whether friends or family. Acceptance of yourself, as a flawed, imperfect, but good natured human being
As the great Stewie Griffin says, "now that's a tune we can all sing to."
x
Quo hic nemo rerum. Illo autem nobis fugiat. Repellat ducimus impedit debitis accusantium sapiente.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
In asperiores repellat adipisci quas beatae. Nam ducimus mollitia ea. Temporibus molestias iusto est veniam. Minus sint sit sint.
Ut adipisci atque porro. Omnis magni molestiae voluptatem doloribus explicabo aperiam ullam. Fugiat nostrum autem consequatur sit sint qui. Quia eos aut quas nostrum et. Modi quis aut odit at.
Quae non dolores distinctio esse. Autem neque magni sunt.
Dolore eos voluptas enim. Eos itaque tempora nisi totam. Aliquid dolorum voluptas deserunt. Nihil ad vero nesciunt atque molestiae perspiciatis dolore. Velit labore qui saepe.