Harvard Extension School Reputation

A while back a friend of mine said he got accepted to Harvard and naturally I was happy for him. He works in NY so I always wondered what's going on there if its a FT program like he said.

I asked and he said, no its at the extension school.

Now, call me ignorant but Harvard's Harvard right? A diploma from there should open doors nonetheless, but searching WSO, I've seen some less then kind words.

I'm actually quite interested in the Management program they have there but wanted some thoughts.

Is the school legit?

Is extension harvard school legit?

There are conflicting opinions among users regarding the reputation of the Harvard Extension School. Generally speaking, it will not be as highly regarded as a degree from Harvard proper. Some users shared that the Harvard University students and alumni will look down upon extension students.

However, one user shared details about degree programs with the Harvard Extension School.

Hesiter:
The Harvard extension school has programs that do give out degrees, you cannot get a degree with out be accepted into the degree programs. While the screening to get into these degree programs is not near as hard as getting into any of the other 12 schools at Harvard. In most industries the degree will hold a very high value, in high finance its not viewed as highly as a normal degree from an IVY leauge school. However I am sure it would not be frowned upon as the degree is still from a very prestigious university.

You can read more about the Extension School on the Harvard website.

Learn more about this topic with the below video.

Read More About Harvard on WSO

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MrJetSet:
Where is your friend working at? From what I've heard, a lot of Harvard alums look down on alums from the Extension School.

Don't Harvard alums look down on alums from every other school too? lol

OP, Harvard Extension is a waste of time.

 
seedy underbelly:
MrJetSet:
Where is your friend working at? From what I've heard, a lot of Harvard alums look down on alums from the Extension School.

Don't Harvard alums look down on alums from every other school too? lol

OP, Harvard Extension is a waste of time.

Elaborate.

 
CashCow:
Anyone can take classes at the extension school - you don't need to be "accepted", just pay them.

That said, you might be able to trick people into thinking you went to the real deal so maybe it's worth it.

Its not a question of tricking anyone. I'll be nearby to Boston come Spring and thought it would be a decent way to get some further commercial experience and network some more. Not too sound too much of a dick but I'm an Oxford grad so I dont need to trick anyone into anything.

 

The Harvard extension school has programs that do give out degrees, you can not get a degree with out be accepted into the degree programs. While the screening to get into these degree progams is not near as hard as getting into any of the other 12 schools at Harvard. In most industires the degree will hold a very high value, in high finance its not viewed as highly as a normal degree from an IVY leauge school. However I am sure it would not be frowned upon as the degree is still from a very prestigous university.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 
heister:
The Harvard extension school has programs that do give out degrees, you can not get a degree with out be accepted into the degree programs. While the screening to get into these degree progams is not near as hard as getting into any of the other 12 schools at Harvard. In most industires the degree will hold a very high value, in high finance its not viewed as highly as a normal degree from an IVY leauge school. However I am sure it would not be frowned upon as the degree is still from a very prestigous university.

Thanks. Thats what my inclination was but I assumed someone may have had experience with it. All I want from the degree (I would go for the management track) really would be another alumni base, networking etc.

Its a good selling point that you are able to join the worldwide alumni of Harvard, no matter what school. Has its perks.

 
TheKid1:
can you use Harvard on campus recruting?

I dont think so. The degree is to be completed minimum 2 years, maximum 5 so aims to attract both working professionals and people like myself, who intern or do another FT degree.

Alumni base is good enough for me.

 
FinancialNoviceII:
TheKid1:
can you use Harvard on campus recruting?

I dont think so. The degree is to be completed minimum 2 years, maximum 5 so aims to attract both working professionals and people like myself, who intern or do another FT degree.

Alumni base is good enough for me.

Technically you aren't supposed to, but I have heard they don't stop you from doing it. IMO its not a cheap thing to do, its like 1500 a class. So this is not something you just do for the hell of it.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

just fyi, 'on campus recruiting' isnt going to be at HBS -- they know that for sure. i really dont think the degree @ harvard extension school for management is worth it -- some of the other professional degrees maybe. however, i do think that there is some weight to the HES degree but its not that much in terms of wall street. sure, anyone can sign up and take any of the classes-- but in order to complete the masters degrees there you still need to pass a thesis by the harvard faculty for your masters which is no easy task. personally i think the best degree that is offered by HES that is offered in terms of finance would be the government degree and focus on international political economy -- you can take some classes through the FAS provided you have a certain gpa as well.

 
shorttheworld:
just fyi, 'on campus recruiting' isnt going to be at HBS -- they know that for sure. i really dont think the degree @ harvard extension school for management is worth it -- some of the other professional degrees maybe. however, i do think that there is some weight to the HES degree but its not that much in terms of wall street. sure, anyone can sign up and take any of the classes-- but in order to complete the masters degrees there you still need to pass a thesis by the harvard faculty for your masters which is no easy task. personally i think the best degree that is offered by HES that is offered in terms of finance would be the government degree and focus on international political economy -- you can take some classes through the FAS provided you have a certain gpa as well.

Interested why you say the Government program is the best? I was looking at Management because as I'm looking to get into public sector consulting, the intangibles I'll gain from that degree will improve my position and resume quite a bit.

 
Harvard University offers the following degrees in Extension Studies:

Associate in Arts
Bachelor of Liberal Arts
Master of Liberal Arts

It is acceptable, therefore, to list the ALM degree on your résumé in the following manner:

Harvard University, Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies, Concentration in history

Unacceptable: Harvard University, MA in History

so you could put Harvard University, MLA, Government Concentration

 
shorttheworld:
Harvard University offers the following degrees in Extension Studies:
Associate in Arts
Bachelor of Liberal Arts
Master of Liberal Arts

It is acceptable, therefore, to list the ALM degree on your résumé in the following manner:

Harvard University, Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies, Concentration in history

Unacceptable: Harvard University, MA in History

so you could put Harvard University, MLA, Government Concentration

Yeah, saw that. Not sure its actually going to stop anyone, I suppose some of those degrees are not offered in the graduate schools of Harvard.

 

sure but either way the people will know that it isnt HBS and i really dont think its going to help much... that is very much so more a moneymaker than the other degrees which you DO have to put a thesis through for.. i personally think that completing a globally-oriented masters at harvard will weigh a lot more than their fake business program...

 

Some notes:

1) You do have to take three classes at HES with I think a B or better prior to actually being able to get into the program. It's not just a pay and you're in thing.

2) You definitely need to put Bachelor's of Arts in Liberal Arts in Extension Studies on your resume.

3) It's definitely not viewed as a prestigious degree.

4) It is viewed as a good place to get spot coursework in business, especially if you don't have an undergrad in business.

5) Most of the classes are taught by regular Harvard professors.

I have never attended HES but I used to do some hiring and we had someone come in with a HES degree so I read up on it. A few elite schools have programs like this - I know the Haas one is viewed in the same light; good for spot education in business but not an elite degree.

Some client-facing people like these places just to slap Harvard on their bio. Fact is, most clients will see Harvard and ignore the rest - that plus the supposedly good instructors means it's not a bad thing in my mind.

 
NorthEastIdiot:
Some notes:

1) You do have to take three classes at HES with I think a B or better prior to actually being able to get into the program. It's not just a pay and you're in thing.

2) You definitely need to put Bachelor's of Arts in Liberal Arts in Extension Studies on your resume.

3) It's definitely not viewed as a prestigious degree.

4) It is viewed as a good place to get spot coursework in business, especially if you don't have an undergrad in business.

5) Most of the classes are taught by regular Harvard professors.

I have never attended HES but I used to do some hiring and we had someone come in with a HES degree so I read up on it. A few elite schools have programs like this - I know the Haas one is viewed in the same light; good for spot education in business but not an elite degree.

Some client-facing people like these places just to slap Harvard on their bio. Fact is, most clients will see Harvard and ignore the rest - that plus the supposedly good instructors means it's not a bad thing in my mind.

1) Aware of that point, which is a good thing.

2) Aware of that too. Although the way someone phrased it above is good enough.

3) Never said it was a prestigious degree, but said it was a prestigious university, which is pretty obvious. The fact that I can connect to Harvard alumni is the draw. With aspirations to work in the USA, the Oxford alumni may not be as prominent. The fact I went to Oxford should help prevent those alums from looking down at me as a backdoor Harvard grad :)

I think most will, like you say, look at the Harvard name. I do like the program, and if I'm in the area, its a no brainer. Probably need some more research in terms of costs involved though.

 

I think you're trying a bit too hard to glorify the program in your mind. You will not carry anywhere near he same weight as a true Harvard rad by going through this program and you'll definitely want to look more into it as far as networking goes because something tells me you don't get the same resources, and rightfully so. Like a previous poster said, it's a good way for professionals with money to blow on a good for profit education program for spot educational purposes.

 
moneymogul:
I think you're trying a bit too hard to glorify the program in your mind. You will not carry anywhere near he same weight as a true Harvard rad by going through this program and you'll definitely want to look more into it as far as networking goes because something tells me you don't get the same resources, and rightfully so. Like a previous poster said, it's a good way for professionals with money to blow on a good for profit education program for spot educational purposes.

Absolutely, its not gonna hold the weight as a proper Harvard degree. I dont see myself as glorifying it, more trying to ascertain its reception in the working world. I'm not hedging my bets that Harvard extension will get me into an elite firm or anything but I think, from my background, I can definitely benefit from learning some of the skills, connecting with Harvard professors (which is one of the key benefits) and networking with those professionals that you mention.

 

If you're interested in building a network any M7 MBA will be much better for you.

It's pretty retarded of you to think of Harvard Extension as a way to get top jobs. No Harvard College alum would be willing to help you. And add to that the fact that on your resume, above Oxford, it'll say "Harvard Extension", which will almost completely destroy your chances at any elite firm.

 
seedy underbelly:
If you're interested in building a network any M7 MBA will be much better for you.

It's pretty retarded of you to think of Harvard Extension as a way to get top jobs. No Harvard College alum would be willing to help you. And add to that the fact that on your resume, above Oxford, it'll say "Harvard Extension", which will almost completely destroy your chances at any elite firm.

I dont actually remember saying that Harvard Extension will get me a top job. I reiterate, intangibles such as connecting with Harvard professors and professionals who may be in positions that I may be seeking an entry into are the key attraction. The alumni base is important too but I'm realistic. I dont expect open arms from them but I think the fact that I graduated from Oxford adds credibility to me that another person, who is simply looking at the name, may not. Don't get me wrong, Harvard as a name is obviously an attraction but I like to think Oxford is as good as Harvard, and graduating from such a prestigious university is a leg up I have.

 

lol "destroy your chances". At the end of the day, you hold a Masters degree from Harvard. That's what you tell people when they ask about your graduation. The only people that know that Harvard Extension degrees have easier admissions processes are:

  1. Harvard students and alumni
  2. The people that research and read blogs like everyone here
  3. Maybe HR at some BB banks

Really seedy? Destroy your chances? Really? Really?

If you have an amazing GPA from Harvard Extension, you can probably get interviews at good banks. Harvard Extension students can now participate in the On-Campus Interview Program (OCI) provided they have a 3.5+ GPA.

 
NYC:
Going to the extension school to leverage the Harvard name is among the more ridiculous things I've seen on this board in a while, which is saying a lot.

Do you not read that well or something? My point was to ask about the rep of the school. I said my key motivation to apply would be to network with professionals in the programs and gain key skills I feel I am lacking when looking over my resume. The alumni base (if it is actually receptive) is the cherry on top.

Not too sound like a dick but I went to Oxford. I dont need to leverage shit.

 

I went to Columbia University and all I got was $100,000 of debt.

Yes, 2/3 of the student population is incredibly smart, a nice relief in a world where the average IQ is 100 (i.e. the average person in the world is an idiot). However, a large 1/3 of the students at the Ivy League colleges are majoring in Sociology or English or Women's Studies (and half of those are dumb as rocks). They are a bunch of free-spirited hippie/yuppies (most with rich daddies that pay full tuition) and couldn't name either of their state Senators for a million dollars.

I'm not putting these fields down, trust me they are actually hard because of the heavy workload, research papers, and expectations. However, they are completely useless in the real world. Unless you go on to law school, or are actually a genius in that field and go on to graduate school and publish major works (which only like 2% of the human population is capable of), then it's a complete waste of money, in my opinion.

Of course, on my dorm floor freshman year I lived alongside the daughter of a multi-million dollar fashion house designer, Viggo Mortensen's son, a Hollywood actor, the daughter of the United States Ambassador to the United Arab Emirates, and (not on my floor but seen studying at the library) the one and only James Franco.

So, these people don't have to worry about their futures. That's already taken care of. Even if they major in Underwater Basket-Weaving, they will be successful in the end. It also sucks when some of these people become your friend and then you realize they are wearing Armani and Prada and invite you to a club where they spend $150 on Grey Goose and you're in an Old Navy and Levi's and eating ham and cheese sandwiches for lunch every day because your family is just a regular suburban middle class one.

After all those years, I ended up doing pre-med at a state college where financial aid covers all of my expenses and I have $1,000 left over each semester.

We were all going to become investment bankers at Goldman Sachs freshman year and by senior year only like 10% actually did.

Anyway, the whole point of this rant is: An Ivy League school is not for everyone. What are your expectations? What do you plan to get out of it? It might be completely useless, in fact, detrimental to a lot of people.

The cardiac surgeon who graduated from the University of Mississippi and the one that graduated from Harvard Medical school both make the same income a year.

If you think going to an Ivy League school, even a real one (even worse the extension one) is a magical doorway to become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you better wake up. And you don't need to actually be an alumnus to get the benefits of networking... Just register for a class on campus. If you live in Weedhole, Oklahoma... get the hell out of there. Wall Street is in Manhattan, baby. Oh, and the extension school alumnus network is different than the actual Harvard one.

Only very few people are lucky enough to have been born with the right brain, thanks to genetics and luck, that it requires to live and succeed in that world. Are you sure you're one of those?

 

no... you can be working full time, part time, none of the time... living in boston doesnt matter...i plan to quit my job and go to boston 2x a week for class, the rest of the time i'll be in nyc

 
bxKKRcarl:
Was wondering what anyone's thoughts were on the Harvard Extentsion School's masters in management... one would list it on their resume as such : Harvard University, ALM Management

I believe this masters in management is in its second year now, but does anyone know if this might hold any clout in the ibanking/PE/HF recruitment world? The admission process involves the undertaking of three classes, with at least a B or higher - then you can submit a formal app and be admitted to the program...12 classes in total, most taught by Harvard Profs ...

I saw a thread some time ago about this, but it wasnt very helpful...

Thoughts?

Have to wonder what Harvard students think of this - considering they know the admissions for this program is ludcrously easy, you'd imagine they'd look down on it. It's the same when I see LSE summer school - I know that doesn't mean shit.

 

ratul... i wouldnt say "it doesnt mean shit" ... either way, its still a masters, and yes it is truly from Harvard, the diploma is signed by the Harvard President ... and they wouldnt keep it around just because people are paying for it... their endowment is #2 in the world, this division of the school is 100 years old... and began based on the ORIGINAL harvard college meritocracy sentiments...

i wasn't quite asking for the validity of the program, just moreso if anyone (recruiters / etc )had thoughts on seeing it on a resume...

 
bxKKRcarl:
ratul... i wouldnt say "it doesnt mean shit" ... either way, its still a masters, and yes it is truly from Harvard, the diploma is signed by the Harvard President ... and they wouldnt keep it around just because people are paying for it... their endowment is #2 in the world, this division of the school is 100 years old... and began based on the ORIGINAL harvard college meritocracy sentiments...

i wasn't quite asking for the validity of the program, just moreso if anyone (recruiters / etc )had thoughts on seeing it on a resume...

The whole extension school is around because people are paying for it.

The degree is worthless.

 
bxKKRcarl:
ratul... i wouldnt say "it doesnt mean shit" ... either way, its still a masters, and yes it is truly from Harvard, the diploma is signed by the Harvard President ... and they wouldnt keep it around just because people are paying for it... their endowment is #2 in the world, this division of the school is 100 years old... and began based on the ORIGINAL harvard college meritocracy sentiments...

i wasn't quite asking for the validity of the program, just moreso if anyone (recruiters / etc )had thoughts on seeing it on a resume...

The whole extension school is around because people are paying for it.

The degree is worthless.

 

An external/extension degree has its uses, but in general they are not as prestigious as a real degree. It would probably be better to do a part-time masters at NYU because the admissions requirements are probably higher than the Harvard thing.

 

I graduated from this program (Harvard ALM in Management with a concentration in Finance). Usually, a handful of individuals in each of my classes were high-function retards (due to the open enrollment policies for the non-prerequisite courses), but most of the students were intelligent and motivated to learn the course material.

Admissions process is not difficult: Bachelors from accredited school (I’ve known students who were bounced for holding funky foreign three year undergrad degrees), 3.33 GPA or better in the three prerequisite management / finance courses taken prior to formal admission, two essays. With that being said, only about 3% of extension school students complete the prerequisites, get admitted, and finish the capstone to earn the degree.

Also had the chance to take 4 out of the 12 required courses in other Harvard schools (via Special Student option). Two were in GSAS (grad-level econ courses) and two 2nd year MBA elective courses at HBS. There was little discernable difference in the quality of instruction, but there was a measurable difference in the quality of students (no high-function retards, and for the most part very bright individuals.

Obviously, this degree is not an MBA from HBS, but it was well worth it from my perspective (total program cost was about $31K including textbooks). The corporate finance courses and the alternative investments PE grad courses were of exceptional quality.

~B

 

I know a guy that did extension school for an MBA from Wharton just because he needed to check the box for a promotion he already had. I highly doubt there is any recruiting tied to extension schools, what would they do, send out a mass email or something? Doesnt seem likely,

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

BB would most likely know the difference between HBS and Harvard Extension, but most firms will not know the difference. On your resume, according to the new format, you are a graduate of Harvard University.

 

I was able to get into a full-time MA/PhD program at Georgetown with my degree from Harvard Extension. I have to assume that the admissions office at Georgetown knows what the Extension School is, and was satisfied enough to accept me. It probably didn't hurt that my GRE scores put me in the 95th percentile, though.

 

The reason I'm asking is that I have one more semester to transfer to another school (and should be a pretty good one too based on my stats). But why bother going through it all if I have a good chance of getting into ibanking from where I'm currently at.

 

Don't listen to Fordhammaster. He's a troll.

Despite what he said, it appears to be fairly selective. It'll probably be an unknown commodity to your interviewer (unless they went to Harvard), and I'm inclined to believe they'll give you the benefit of the doubt given the fact that you're the right age and it has the Harvard brand name.

 

You seem to have fantastic credentials. I really doubt anyone will care if you're in the regular college or the engineering college or extension school or whatever. And if they do care they are douche bags.

 

if you are applying online and the person (analysts, vp, md, etc) screening the resumes are from Harvard College / Business School etc I would think they would know the difference but if it's "just HR" not sure if they would know. however, the extension school is def. not in the same league as harvard college and I always thought most people knew the difference.

 

Out of curiosity, why does everyone hate on the extension school? From what I understand it's still Harvard professors and thus surely getting an A in a extension economics class is no difference to getting an A in a Harvard College class?

 

Not at all, because the curves are set by a collection of 40-year old randos instead of actual undergrads. Also, good profs don't teach extension school classes, except in a few cases where a classes is videotaped and then offered through the extension school.

 

Harvard extension is a joke. Most of the students there are 40 year olds. Anyone that wants to can take courses there without applying, and I am fairly certain the professors that teach there are not the same professors who teach at Harvard College.

So yes, an A at the extension school is certainly much different than an A at the college.

Also, I highly doubt students at the extension school have access to Harvard OCS, so they cannot drop resumes for Harvard College recruiters.

 

What's wrong with 40 years olds going back to school? I guess graspinig context isn't this person's strength; for example, there's nothing worse than a dumb kid with no meaningful work experience coming out of school with an MBA. 100% worthless.

 

Most of the students there are 40 year olds.

Depends on the class. I've had some where the majority were in their 20's and some where they were indeed mostly in their late 30s. Most of the time it's an even mix.

Anyone that wants to can take courses there without applying,

So what? How would selectivity of admission have anything to do with the quality of the education or the academic rigor of the class? That said, to aquire an actual degree, a candidate has to do well in a handful of classes before admission, so no, not just any dumb ass could enroll in the degree programs or for that matter, actually earn a degree.

and I am fairly certain the professors that teach there are not the same professors who teach at Harvard College.

Not accurate. Many of the classes are the exact same as the Harvard College classes, a large number are taught by Harvard staff, though some are taught by visiting professors. I don't have accurate percentages, but to say the classes are entirely different and substandard is, frankly, hyperbolic BS.

So yes, an A at the extension school is certainly much different than an A at (the college)

I think this is an unfair argument with no evidence.

Also, I highly doubt students at the extension school have access to Harvard OCS, so they cannot drop resumes for Harvard College recruiters.

Don't know about this, you could be right.

 

I was an extension school student for grad school. I really came to the program because I was active duty in the Air Force at the base near Boston. I enjoyed the extension school classes, and in most cases the professors were the same ones at KSG, College, and Liberal Arts Grad school. My thesis director was a Harvard professor emeritus from HBS and KSG. All of my classes (10) were on campus, in some cases you can take classes with day students if you have the time - I did not. However, I did join some of the clubs on campus like the Harvard Mountaineering Club, and enjoyed rock climbing with Harvard Students from the college and other grad schools. The point of this narrative is that I felt like I was a part of the "real" Harvard and enjoyed my experience. The Harvard community, students from other schools, faculty, and my fellow extension school students were great.

A side note about extension school students - many are extremely successful, I was in class with a full MIT professor, an owner of a movie theater franchise that stretched across Canada (he could afford to fly in at night for class), a former owner of a construction company that built one of the largest reservoirs in Texas, and the list could go on. Many students in the extension go there because they like the professors, the hours, and the Harvard community.

At the end of the day I think someone reviewing the resume will notice Harvard and that will get your foot in the door. After that it is up to you, I've worked with MIT, Yale, Stanford, etc.. graduates in highly technical fields, and at the end of the day whatever you did in college doesn't matter when you start your first day on the job. It's like your life starts over, and you have to bring what you learned in life and college and apply it to your profession.

I've earned a lot of things in my life, but my extension school degree was one of the hardest. It took discipline, dedication, hard work, and intellectual acumen - I think that's what getting a degree from Harvard is all about, pushing yourself to the limit and seeing if you can earn the degree.

 

IMO, an IVY student is not respected based on the rigor of their curriculum. Rather, they are respected for the drive and intellectual acumen that got them into their respective IVY in the first place.

Considering this, the quality and rigor of Harvard Extension's classes are irrelevant as the school has no exclusivity. In any case, respect/prestige is highly correlated with exclusivity and competitive entry. Harvard Extension is no more than a Community College for the rich.

Furthermore, I suggest you transfer while you have the chance. With your impressive credentials, you have the unique opportunity to attend an excellent school, maybe even the real Harvard.

 

IBankedout, your opinion on the Extension is shortsighted. There are other ways of validating ones drive and intellectual acumen. Gaining a degree with an excellent GPA, to the high academic standards that Harvard demands, under some of the best faculty in he world, all while meeting the bill yourself and working full-time pretty much constitutes one of them.

 

^^^ Agreed. There's a lot of ways to show you're smart, and not all of the world's highly driven intellectuals clear or want to clear some hurdle to get into a target school when they're 18. CC: Jamie Dimon. Methinks IBankedout is annoyed because employers are discovering the smartest 5% out of BMCC can do a better job than a lot of bankers with Ivy League pedigrees.

That said, I think another good route for a 20-something without a degree is a strong state school. I went to UIUC right after the dot-com crash and we had programmers in their 20s, 30s, and even a couple in their 40s going back to school for a degree. It was infuriating because I had to compete against programmers who'd helped put Linux together in my Systems class, for instance. These guys didn't even get looked at by MIT or Stanford, but the state schools all took them. That said, they had to meet the same admission standards other applicants had to meet, and they graduated with a 100% legit degree from the #5 Engineering school in the country without any distinction between them and the 18-year-old admits besides maybe their age if a hiring manager could tell. Had it been Berkeley, they'd have graduated from the #2 Engineering school.

The same probably is true for the public Ivies like Berkeley, Michigan, and UVA. State school admission boards are much more concerned with raw intellect and competence and much less concerned with stories and pure Greek-style ate, so the result is that you do tend to find some older students. And if you can make friends with 20-year-olds outside college, you will fit in just fine. At Berkeley or UVA, you're going to get roughly the same education as Harvard Extension or NYU SCPS, but pay 1/3 the tuition and you won't have to worry about whether there's any sort of asterisk after your degree.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
^^^ Agreed. There's a lot of ways to show you're smart, and not all of the world's highly driven intellectuals clear or want to clear some hurdle to get into a target school when they're 18. CC: Jamie Dimon. Methinks IBankedout is annoyed because employers are discovering the smartest 5% out of BMCC can do a better job than a lot of bankers with Ivy League pedigrees.

That said, I think another good route for a 20-something without a degree is a strong state school. I went to UIUC right after the dot-com crash and we had programmers in their 20s, 30s, and even a couple in their 40s going back to school for a degree. It was infuriating because I had to compete against programmers who'd helped put Linux together in my Systems class, for instance. These guys didn't even get looked at by MIT or Stanford, but the state schools all took them. That said, they had to meet the same admission standards other applicants had to meet, and they graduated with a 100% legit degree from the #5 Engineering school in the country without any distinction between them and the 18-year-old admits besides maybe their age if a hiring manager could tell. Had it been Berkeley, they'd have graduated from the #2 Engineering school.

The same probably is true for the public Ivies like Berkeley, Michigan, and UVA. State school admission boards are much more concerned with raw intellect and competence and much less concerned with stories and pure Greek-style ate, so the result is that you do tend to find some older students. And if you can make friends with 20-year-olds outside college, you will fit in just fine. At Berkeley or UVA, you're going to get roughly the same education as Harvard Extension or NYU SCPS, but pay 1/3 the tuition and you won't have to worry about whether there's any sort of asterisk after your degree.

I agree that great talent can be found in state schools. In the interest of clarity, I attended a huge state school for free and managed to break into IB. Though this is irrelevant, I am the first in my family to graduate college and couldn't afford the Ivy education, so do not jump to judge. As a non target who has worked with Ivys, it is obvious to see the immediate advantages they have in the beginning, however those advantages seem to diminish over time.

The OP is not inquiring about his chances coming from a quality state school. He is questioning Harvard ext. I did not opine to discourage the OP, but rather to lend a pragmatic and candid perspective which is shared among my colleagues. I still suggest he transfers to a good school, whether it be a state (may be cheaper than Harv Ex) or Ivy. If you have the opportunity to do so, then why the hell not. If you have to question your school's ability to place you on wall street, which you should, then you already know the answer.

You may be receiving a great education, but I promise you will be at a disadvantage come recruiting time. You will be considered a tier below the 40yr old soccer moms at Kaplan University (joking).

On a final note, NYU SCPS was a scam. I took a class there one summer while interning and the quality of the educational experience was terrible. Though my professor was a former Rocket Scientist from UPenn, the education was fully diluted by the 50yr old illiterate idiots who filled the classroom. Many could not grasp or comprehend the advance material, so the rigor of the class fell precipitously and it became quite rudimentary. I fear that this may be the case at Harv Ex as well, considering it is open admissions.

 

@OP: I echo mikecross's post. The population of degree seekers at the Extension has shifted drastically to the side of the professionally minded and the stereotype among some people of it being populated by casual learning, 50 year old "moms", couldn't be further from the truth. I'm a computer science concentrator so my experience may not correlate for you as an economics one, but I have found my degree to be highly valued. I work alongside graduates of Caltech, MIT, and Cambridge and I have never found myself feeling wanting in anyway due to my degree.

For me the distinguishing factor in favor of an ES degree is not solely the high quality of education, but the fact you earn it under "hostile" conditions. Highlighting the dedication, self-discipline and self-indepenence required to complete the program has been very valuable in branding myself with employers and the Harvard affiliation does act as a quality assurance of the degree. Because of this I wouldn't trade my qualification for any other.

 

"On a final note, NYU SCPS was a scam. I took a class there one summer while interning and the quality of the educational experience was terrible. Though my professor was a former Rocket Scientist from UPenn, the education was fully diluted by the 50yr old illiterate idiots who filled the classroom. Many could not grasp or comprehend the advance material, so the rigor of the class fell precipitously and it became quite rudimentary. I fear that this may be the case at Harv Ex as well, considering it is open admissions."

I'm not commenting on the HES's suitability for a career in IBanking, but the above shows you are making pronouncements and comparisons on a subject you know nothing about. Harvard enforces a strict participation code on Extension students and those that hold up a class in any way are excluded from that course. A story like the one you mention of NYU SCPS is simply out of the question. As far as the overall abilities of a class comprised of Extension students is concerned, a great many of the courses are direct clones of the College ones. On these we sit the same exams, write the same papers, and are judged to the same curve as the College undergrads. The Extension students have shown that they score just as well as their College counterparts and there have been several occasions when they have scored among the top of the class when taking the College grades into accounts.

One can debate whether a certain school is suited for a certain career, and the factors that influence this debate are complicated. But to bigotedly try to demean a whole student body when you know nothing about them is absurd!

 

It is fasanating to see some of you yanks get all uptight about open enrollment. Here in the UK the school of thought is that it is exclusive if it is bloody hard to get. I'm not saying that LSE kids don't have an edge out the gate, but I know a handful of UoL(IP) grads (an open enrollment institution by your standards) that hold some quite good positions in the City (London).

 
MaGnUm_UK:
It is fasanating to see some of you yanks get all uptight about open enrollment. Here in the UK the school of thought is that it is exclusive if it is bloody hard to get. I'm not saying that LSE kids don't have an edge out the gate, but I know a handful of UoL(IP) grads (an open enrollment institution by your standards) that hold some quite good positions in the City (London).
I know a lot of people who landed in banking/trading from state schools. Heck, my current manager is from SUNY and the sales guy who sits across from me is from Michigan.

Bear in mind that a lot of state schools are pretty darned competitive when it comes to admission and many of them have much lower graduation rates. That hurts their US News Rankings, but it boosts their overall selectivity. And I think that for a strong research institution, some hiring managers are going to prefer graduation selectivity to admission selectivity. It tells them how students have been able to compete against other folks in their specialty more recently.

 

I have nothing to do with Harvard's extension school, but decided to do a quick google on it. Some things struck me, first the graduating numbers for undergrads are tiny, about 100-200 on average, not exactly a diploma mill. Secondly their graduates do seem to get into some excellent postgaduate programs, including at Harvard and in my brief search I found a graduate who was accepted into MIT's MBA.. And thirdly I found this, http://hebsfinancepanel.eventbrite.com/, organised by their bussiness society. is it common for Goldman to send senior analysts to a career panel for students they aren't interested in?

 

Hi Guys, it is really interesting seeing all of the posts here about Harvard Extension.

I was thinking about the Postgrad Management course, to actually prepare me for future management (as opposed to just having "Harvard" on my CV!). To be honest, I'm already working in Finance, I'm a 29 year old VP working in Asset Management, and I have an undergraduate degree from the equivalent of an IVY League college in the UK.

The reason why I want to do the Masters course at the extension school, is that I'll need to study from distance, (as the schools over here where I am working Dubai) are not particularly good. Surely, the Extension school isn't just full of rejects? I would think that a fair proportion of students are professionals like myself enrolled, who just need a way to study part-time or by distance, as they have responsibilities at work???

 

Continuing Education/Extension School/Evening School are cash cows for universities.

The programs that allow you to take classes alongside regular students certainly have their benefits if you actually care about the quality of the education you're getting. Keep in mind though, you're also paying degree level tuition as well though.

Most employers know that these schools are basically open admissions to those willing to dish out the money for them, so in terms of resume building they do very little. However for applying to a degree granting graduate program, the classes can be helpful in demonstrating that you're capable of that school's coursework or improving poor undergrad grades.

 

Onebuck, I was looking at doing the masters program through that. It acually gives you a masters degree, and from everything I have read about the program it is prob the best in the country.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 
txjustin:
There was actually a good thread on this a while back...

I read that thread, I am more looking for what you all think about it for a masters program not an MBA replacement.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

I just have a good amount of time on my hands. Figured it could help polish my CV a bit and make me more marketable. I know the school has open enrollment but from everything I have read about the school admittance into the degree granting programs actually has a lower acceptance rate compared to Harvard College, on a percentage basis of applicants.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 
Brady4MVP:
How are they "competing" with harvard college kids? Everyone knows that the extension school is a total joke, and you get none of the benefits of the regular harvard students.

Extension school is not a joke. Perhaps you don't get none of the benefits you do as a Harvard College student but it sucks that narrow-minded people like yourself (who frankly is FAR TOO obsessed about getting into Harvard) disparage people who are simply trying to better themselves.

 

And when it says they're competing, he probably means this paragraph:

"Senior Lecturer in Mathematics Paul G. Bamberg Jr. ’63, whose class on classical geometry is open to both undergrads and Extension School students, echoes Greenberg’s positive experience with HES. Bamberg emphasizes that everyone is held to the same standards, saying that, “they all sit in the same classroom and take the same exams, and over the past three years the Extension students have done as well as the undergraduates.”

According to Bamberg, the two highest grades last year were earned by Extension students. For the past two years Extension students outperformed their peers on his midterm—one even earning a perfect score."

 

How are they NOT competing with the harvard college kids? They are taking the same courses, writing the same exams, and the same papers, and in some cases are beating them...

University is the best scam going.

 
ivoteforthatguy:
this would be a good experimental ground to see if harvard's value is just in the name or the quality of teaching/peer environment

Bingo. Harvard kids feel threatened because what does it say about their degree if they are getting out-competed in the class room by a drop-out in Idaho?

It would indicate that Harvard College (considered the best in the country) is either not so tough that only prodigies can handle the work, or that the value of the college is recognized through the admissions letter and not the diploma.

Either way, a lot of students (especially now with the college prep cottage industry) base their self worth on their college...to open it to the masses is to make them realize they are not a superstar.

As somebody who went to an elite college, I'll say that most people of above average intelligence could graduate with a good GPA. College is just not that difficult...unless you majored in a hard science in a reputable department, then hats off to you for getting a real education.

Admissions is not meant to find the most academically qualified students...or even advance the alleged goal of a diverse class; it is more a test to see if you can figure out the rules of the game, and play by them. At least for undergrad, the value of a college degree is just to signal to employers that you have this skill.

 

Attending Harvard causes your d*ck to grow by around 3 inches (this is the median as per official stats). If you are a girl, attending Harvard causes your facial features to rearrange over time so that you become more physically attractive and your tits also grow - in sum, you become hotter. After Harvard, with a bigger pecker and/or tits (the 'and' is applicable to transsexuals), it's really easy to climb to the top of the social hierarchy. That's the true value of Harvard.

 

Brady, this obsession over Harvard needs to end. Although it is arguably the greatest b-school/undergraduate institution in the world, obsessing over it the way you have been diminishes your own value and makes you look pathetic. For what it's worth, you're better than that.

The time you spend on here praising and worshiping Harvard could be better spent by actually accomplishing something great. Who knows...perhaps you'll just get in because you did something extraordinary, but by that time you probably won't give a damn about prestige anymore.

Just a thought...

"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." - DT
 
beta26:
Brady, this obsession over Harvard needs to end. Although it is arguably the greatest b-school/undergraduate institution in the world, obsessing over it the way you have been diminishes your own value and makes you look pathetic. For what it's worth, you're better than that.

The time you spend on here praising and worshiping Harvard could be better spent by actually accomplishing something great. Who knows...perhaps you'll just get in because you did something extraordinary, but by that time you probably won't give a damn about prestige anymore.

Just a thought...

The undergrad school isnt that great. A lot of the classes are taught by ta's, and the ones taught by professors usually wouldnt allow for interaction with them because theyre spending so much time researching. Its the high quality students and the graduate programs that make harvard special, not the u-grad program.

“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Schopenhauer
 

College entry and selection is big business, and the prestige afforded by being selected by the premier colleges is a testament to most people's hard work. However, the vilification from Harvard students and alumni (from what I hear anyway) to HES students is pretty ridiculous. I am certain that some extension students would aim for the school for the chance to have Harvard on their resumes, a friend of mine who is at HES, misled me with this very principle. The fact that they may fail to learn or engage students like the guy in the article, who if I am to believe the comments is a prodigy in his own right, is pretty short-sighted. I would've jumped at the opportunity to learn from a more seasoned professional in an effort to better myself, just as they are doing.

 

brady is running his pro gay alliance at his job remember :) lol

i had considered doing a masters in government and focusing on international political economy.

FYI -- it is EASY to 'get into' the program with no 'requisites' other than performing in the classes (which in itself cuts many out), but for the masters you STILL have to kick out a harvard grad school level masters degree.

if i go to get my MBA and get a job that ever allows me the opportunity to go ahead and get another degree for the fuck of it il ldefinitely be doing this

 

As a Harvard college grad I find it sad how disparaging people are towards HES and its students. Honestly, I have more respect for HES grads than I do the College grads...

first of all, although HES doesn't have the strict admissions requirements that the College does, it requires just as much work to complete the full degree program as it does to complete the College degree program. Secondly, most of the HES students that pursue a full degree (I think only about 2-3% of people that take classes in HES end up getting the full degree) are doing it WHILE they are working full-time, supporting a family, and juggling a bunch of other commitments which in my opinions takes a lot more work and deserves more respect that a College grad who takes a full courseload...oh no you are going to class for less than 20 hrs a week and you don't really have that much work outside of class...poor you. In my 4 years I probably never dedicated more than 30 hrs a week to academics and graduated with a good GPA.

I really don't understand why College kids feel so entitled...so you had to study hard and take a rigorous courseload in h.s., do well on a standardized test, participate in extracurricular activities, do some volunteer work, etc. Sprinkle in a bit of luck in the admissions process and a dash of legacy and URM status and you got into college...big fucking deal you did well in h.s. and were lucky enough to get selected in a crapshoot of an admissions process most likely because you had resources that helped you understand how to play the game.

I worked hard in h.s. (although not even close to how hard HES full degree people that hold full time jobs and families do), I knew how to play the game and I got lucky. I had a great experience at Harvard, I met some great people, I developed a good network, etc. but going to Harvard College does not make me better than anyone...which honestly comes as a shock to a lot of HYPW grads on wall street when they realize that their bonus is lower than the random kid from non-target U and works his balls off.

As a side note, the best comment on the thread from the Crimson is the one that notes that all legacy students should have that noted on their diploma...hilarious.

 
txjustin:
Well said Harvardgrad. I'm sure Brady will come in here and berate you...even though you are an actual Harvard graduate.

Why would I berate him? It was a good post, and I agree with virtually everything he wrote. Elite undergrad and b-school admissions are often arbitrary and comes down to the luck of the draw. And I have certainly NEVER said that going to an elite school makes one a "better" human being.

 

in all fairness to brady i think he is merely presenting a candid view of "how the typical WS elitist sees HES" rather than the fair and circumspect view of the place. the idiotic elitism of IBD is one of the reasons i cut my career there short. the quant world is more meritocratic and i like dealing with the likes of engineers and scientists who come from all kinds of backgrounds.

 
I have certainly NEVER said that going to an elite school makes one a "better" human being

True but your comments devalue HES and its graduates. Upthread you call the school a "total joke." I think HES and similar programs at other universities provide non-traditional students with a great opportunity to better themselves and earn a degree through hard work and dedication. As a hiring manager (I guess a rational one), I would definitely not hold this (or any other type of continuing education degree) against a candidate. In all reality, it really shows me their level of dedication, motivation, and work ethic. Despite the fact that I went to an "elite / target" school when I have interviewed or helped hire people I have actually, for the most part, been more impressed by candidates that didn't go to ultra elite schools as many of those students come off as douchey and arrogant. I want to hire someone that is smart, humble, ambitious, and hard working and I think many HES grads fit this profile while many target students are smart they are generally not very humble, they are entitled (you don't know how many I have met that think that by 25 they could run a company better than any CEO and believe they are under leveled and under paid...they just dont want to put in the work to reach the upper echelons of management...they just want it handed to them) and are ambitious but for the most part only motivated by money.

 
harvardgrad08:
I have certainly NEVER said that going to an elite school makes one a "better" human being

True but your comments devalue HES and its graduates. Upthread you call the school a "total joke." I think HES and similar programs at other universities provide non-traditional students with a great opportunity to better themselves and earn a degree through hard work and dedication. As a hiring manager (I guess a rational one), I would definitely not hold this (or any other type of continuing education degree) against a candidate. In all reality, it really shows me their level of dedication, motivation, and work ethic. Despite the fact that I went to an "elite / target" school when I have interviewed or helped hire people I have actually, for the most part, been more impressed by candidates that didn't go to ultra elite schools as many of those students come off as douchey and arrogant. I want to hire someone that is smart, humble, ambitious, and hard working and I think many HES grads fit this profile while many target students are smart they are generally not very humble, they are entitled (you don't know how many I have met that think that by 25 they could run a company better than any CEO and believe they are under leveled and under paid...they just dont want to put in the work to reach the upper echelons of management...they just want it handed to them) and are ambitious but for the most part only motivated by money.

Absolutely agree. If you're talking arrogant and douchey graduates, pay a visit to Oxford as well. The law firm I worked for almost exclusively hired Oxbridge candidates and the air of smugness and entitlement within the office was frankly too much to bear. I worked hard to get into an elite school and frankly I find it insulting that someone who also put in a lot of hard work, effort and commitment to attend a school, hanging with superstar Harvard College undergrads, while holding down a full time job and perhaps looking after a family, are branded a joke by some guy desperate for Harvard on his resume.

 

Brady, honest question here, did like your parents go to Harvard or someone close to you or something because I have never, ever seen someone so consumed by a college?

You're that bad that even Rat's trolling you and hasnt been hit with monkeyshit. Its frankly unbelievable..

 

Just done some random Google-ing. Ran into a dude who got a B.A degree at Wharton and is now seriously considering an MBA at Harvard Extension. His argument went like this (and made sense): so even if he busts his ass off and gets admission to some prestigious MBA, he might not benefit anything from that 'coz he was already from Wharton. However, he desperately needs a master's degree to climb the ladder so HES offers him the coveted Harvard diplomat on his resume, he doesn't even have to quit his job (and the income) because he can took the majority of courses online.

I'll be glad if some WSO users buy into this scheme.

Nobody wants to work for it anymore. There's no honor in taking the after school job at Mickey D's. Honor's in the dollar, kid.
 

guess that really explains the trend I found during interviews with these elite school kids. I always ask every candidate this simple question and it tells me a lot about their fit in S&T.

"On a scale of 1 to 5, 1 represent all your achievements are through working hard and 5 means you got them from sheer intelligence.

All Ivy and plus kids almost never give themselves less than a 4. We don't need smart ass kids, we need people that can work hard and learn by taking directions.

 

The ironic thing is that, in just aobut every other industry a degree from HES would be just as good as a degree from any of the other Harvard schools. Its just that we work in a prestige obsessed douchebag filled industry.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

The only thing harder than getting into Harvard is failing out.

And what is this bullshit about Harvard having a tough curve?

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

I took some classes at the Harvard Extension School and the classes were very good. I found most of the students to be very bright, but more importantly the classes were like business school classes and most of the other students had a lot of impressive experience.

Harvard runs a very good program. I'd recommend those classes to anyone. I was an engineer and decided to take classes prior to business school (Econ, Accounting, etc)

Classes were not as rigorous as bschool but they had excellent professors and engaged, quality students. Don't diss the extension school.

 

I usually have several hours in the early part of the day where I am pretty much doing nothing at the office other then surfing fourms and BSing with people. I think I might take a stab at a class or two, maybe do a degree program if the situation presents it self.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

I did HES for 3 years before going to university. I also took community college courses, a target schools summer courses (which was exactly same as undergrad as I understand), and state school courses while in highschool and now attend another state school. I also whored MIT OCW, Berkeley Webcasts, and other online video lectures at Stanford, Yale (both can be found on youtube) and used HES to log into actual Harvard courses.

I guess you can say I have a strong idea of the differences between target and non-target classrooms. My bias for this info is that I took mostly science and math courses. Unable to comment about humanities.

HES goes both ways and it really depends on what classes you take. Some are complete shit and just a way to make money off the Harvard brand (does this surprise you? lol). Other classes are at as high standards at Harvard courses, and merge student bodies with actual Harvard students. I can also confirm that those shared classroom courses have about the same level of rigor as courses restricted to only harvard students. There are also many classes in between the two extremes (the O-Chem class is better than the one at my current state school but not as good as chem 17 or 27 at harvard).

I'd also like to point out most HES courses are freshman and sophomore level courses, with occasionally an upper div in the mix. So HES in that sense is fairly easy as you'll never get into the truly advanced courses for upper upperclassmen.

Basically its impossible to know how legit HES really is because some people took the legit courses there and they definitely deserve the respect for completing them (O-chem is typically hard for most people no matter where you took it - wasn't for me though) . On the other hand, tons off easy courses offered as well, and there are definitely assholes who do them to just get a harvard brand under their belt. You really can't generalize HES students, especially since you're stereotyping a diverse student body of Highschool kids, working professionals, college drop-outs, Ivy summer students (Harvard Summer = HES) and old timers who just want to learn.

 

I"m in the zone so I'll also write about non-target vs target education.

From my experience, there is a huge difference. I realize this depends on the non-target you attend, but there really is a huge difference in education quality at Harvard and my state school. What you can learn at harvard in 1 year takes my state school 1.5 years simply because the typical student really isn't the same caliber as harvard and the school caters to the average. This should be no surprise as harvard selects from the top end of the pool and state schools take in average students. Again, there really is a difference in your non-target education and harvard.

Here are some other points though for non-target students reading this

The smartest kids from my state school are very talented and did get accepted into an ivy but couldn't afford it or perhaps didn't play the admissions game very well. I would even say these kids could outsmart many ivy students but unfortunately won't get as great an education as their ivy peers. However, top state school kids are not at the same level as top ivy kids.

There are certain majors at my state school that are better than harvard's in my opinion. Harvard engineering is really not that great.

Education is free. All you have to do is read what smart kids read and you'll know the same stuff. There is nothing in an undergrad education that you can't figure out by reading a book because a bachelors in anything really isn't that hard. The only exception is for lab based courses that require expensive equipment.

What really matters is the student and not the degree. I've seen kids at my state school design their course curriculum so they could compete with ivy kids. While the average state school kid who goes through the typical course curriculum will be outdone by the Harvard curriculum, there are many ways to beef up your schedule to level with Ivy kids. They did this by jumping into grad school courses, writing a very good thesis, and independent studies.

 
couchy:
I"m in the zone so I'll also write about non-target vs target education.

From my experience, there is a huge difference. I realize this depends on the non-target you attend, but there really is a huge difference in education quality at Harvard and my state school. What you can learn at harvard in 1 year takes my state school 1.5 years simply because the typical student really isn't the same caliber as harvard and the school caters to the average. This should be no surprise as harvard selects from the top end of the pool and state schools take in average students. Again, there really is a difference in your non-target education and harvard.

Here are some other points though for non-target students reading this

The smartest kids from my state school are very talented and did get accepted into an ivy but couldn't afford it or perhaps didn't play the admissions game very well. I would even say these kids could outsmart many ivy students but unfortunately won't get as great an education as their ivy peers. However, top state school kids are not at the same level as top ivy kids.

There are certain majors at my state school that are better than harvard's in my opinion. Harvard engineering is really not that great.

Education is free. All you have to do is read what smart kids read and you'll know the same stuff. There is nothing in an undergrad education that you can't figure out by reading a book because a bachelors in anything really isn't that hard. The only exception is for lab based courses that require expensive equipment.

What really matters is the student and not the degree. I've seen kids at my state school design their course curriculum so they could compete with ivy kids. While the average state school kid who goes through the typical course curriculum will be outdone by the Harvard curriculum, there are many ways to beef up your schedule to level with Ivy kids. They did this by jumping into grad school courses, writing a very good thesis, and independent studies.

 

Shrug. A 4.0 from HES, IMHO, is as good as a Harvard degree from my hiring manager P.O.V, although I am also expecting other experience, leadership, etc. You competed for grades against some pretty darned bright kids, you beat them hands-down, therefore, purely on the intellectual rankings, you've beaten them.

But can you start your own club full of college students while taking these courses from home?

 
IlliniProgrammer:
Shrug. A 4.0 from HES, IMHO, is as good as a Harvard degree from my hiring manager P.O.V, although I am also expecting other experience, leadership, etc. You competed for grades against some pretty darned bright kids, you beat them hands-down, therefore, purely on the intellectual rankings, you've beaten them.

But can you start your own club full of college students while taking these courses from home?

Sorry bro. HES students don't get access to career services offered to regular Harvard students. I know for a fact that the business masters students at HES are strictly forbidden from using the career resources of HBS and using the HBS name in any form or fashion.

 

pretty sure HES students have access to OCR...

On-Campus Interview Program (OCI)

Harvard Extension School 2011–12 graduates are eligible to use the fall 2011 On-Campus Interview Program. OCI brings employers on campus for full-time, first-round job interviews for graduating students. Interviews are held in late September and October. The majority of the employment opportunities are in finance, consulting, and information technology.

http://www.extension.harvard.edu/resources/career-academic-resource-cen…

 

I have a relative and a good friend who went to HES (one for a B.A., and the other for an M.S) and somehow both always 'forget' to add the ES when they are discussing their degree (in a casual setting). I imagine this is a root of the antipathy cantabs have for the ES.

 

at a place like princeton, the ugrads get pampered. at harvard, they are neglected like at any other research-1 university but they're happy just to be at harvard, plus they are usually enterprising enough to take care of themselves. what i think of H:

  1. harvard doesn't cost that much after the generous financial aid
  2. the peer group at harvard is excellent and you will be able to test yourself against some real gunners in your cohort
  3. you are certainly treated no worse than at a big state school where you'd be similarly neglected
  4. the profs are as a rule tops in their field. the TAs are harvard grad students who are themselves gunners. you are surrounded by so many gunners they should rename it gunner college for fuck's sake. this is what you need in a college to get a good experience.

plus the harvard name does open doors.

 

I took some courses at harvard extension for fun. They were extremely well done (1 professor was a prof at the business school, another was the head of an area history department), better overall than a lot of the courses I took for my undergrad, and the teachers were very prompt in responding to my inquiries.

That said, harvard extension has no prestige (which a lot of people in finance seem to care a lot about) and given that a its essentially a community college (anyone can get in) with the harvard stamp doesn't do it any favors. Conversely, I knew a guy during one of my internships who was working on a degree from harvard x, and he had gotten the internship over hundreds of other candidates who had applied including at least one HBS student. So there is some hope out there, but he was also working full time, so it seems to me that these combined things worked to make him seem like he had a lot of drive and hunger to succeed in the role.

“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Schopenhauer
 
seabird:
I took some courses at harvard extension for fun. They were extremely well done (1 professor was a prof at the business school, another was the head of an area history department), better overall than a lot of the courses I took for my undergrad, and the teachers were very prompt in responding to my inquiries.

That said, harvard extension has no prestige (which a lot of people in finance seem to care a lot about) and given that a its essentially a community college (anyone can get in) with the harvard stamp doesn't do it any favors. Conversely, I knew a guy during one of my internships who was working on a degree from harvard x, and he had gotten the internship over hundreds of other candidates who had applied including at least one HBS student. So there is some hope out there, but he was also working full time, so it seems to me that these combined things worked to make him seem like he had a lot of drive and hunger to succeed in the role.

I'm sure the courses are well done. One of my good friends used to teach at the program, and the last time we got together i asked about his thoughts on the program. He said a lot of his students were rich internationals who were living in boston and just wanted to take some classes at harvard. He said he can't figure out why people would want to waste their money on it otherwise, but of course he's not complaining since he made decent money from teaching.

 
happypantsmcgee:
This is tailor made for someone working in a F500 as a calyst for a promotion.
Thank you for the info.

Shorts, HES is the inferior program for what you want.

Does anyone else here have specific information about the intended and realized purpose / focus / use for this program beyond what's on the HES site and the other two posts? Does anyone here know any grads from the program, what they do, what they did before the program, etc.. ? Does anyone have specific info about how useful the OCR is for HES students (success rate, job type, etc, etc, etc)?

Get busy living
 

I will put a few myths to bed about this.

1 It is not a cc, the school is open enrollment the degree programs are not.
2 You now have access to OCR 3 The degree programs require a UG or masters level thesis to be written in order to graduate.

People here talk about this program in a very negative light, when in reality they know nothing about it.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 
heister:
2 You now have access to OCR
To be clear...full IBD, consulting, etc... OCR? If so, for associate, analyst, or both? Please pardon the ignorance, I'm not well versed on this topic.

I'm looking for information on alternatives to getting an MBA for a few years.

Get busy living
 
heister:
I will put a few myths to bed about this.

1 It is not a cc, the school is open enrollment the degree programs are not.
2 You now have access to OCR 3 The degree programs require a UG or masters level thesis to be written in order to graduate.

People here talk about this program in a very negative light, when in reality they know nothing about it.

Precisely. The program is legit. I dont understand the negativity to it. A friend of mine is in the program now, well is in the Government program, and he has Harvard undergrads alongside him. So perhaps that gives some perspective to those who feel this 'Harvard' is beneath them.

 
FinancialNoviceII:
Brady we had this discussion on other threads - http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/harvard-extension-students-dedica…

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/harvard-extension-0

Do we still need to go through this?

If you think the extension program is that great, you should move to boston, drop $20K and check it out for yourself. Also, start going to HBS mixers and tell them you're a harvard student and see what they say.

 

I don't think it is to necessarily compete with the HBs kids obviously not, but for a 23k option with someone who knows their stuff and can network some vs.. 100k for some other Degrees or 50k for other MSF programs? Obviously not a swap for a top MBA at all not trying to justify this, I'm just curious to see what the reality of this program is asides from all the he said she said my friend fucked a dog there once kind of psychobabble that we get on here-- which is why I think it would be great to go ahead and try to connect and see what is said.

 
shorttheworld:
I don't think it is to necessarily compete with the HBs kids obviously not, but for a 23k option with someone who knows their stuff and can network some vs.. 100k for some other Degrees or 50k for other MSF programs? Obviously not a swap for a top MBA at all not trying to justify this, I'm just curious to see what the reality of this program is asides from all the he said she said my friend fucked a dog there once kind of psychobabble that we get on here-- which is why I think it would be great to go ahead and try to connect and see what is said.

Put it this way. As much as I adore harvard, i would rather do a MSF at boston college than this program.

And no, it's not "psychobabble" when the source is someone who actually taught at the program and knows the realities of the students' options.

 

Ill reiterate so that hopefully anyone reading this for content/input/not a circlejerk can see it.

If you're at a F500 something like this can easily be a catalyst for a promotion. Guys do it at my firm pretty regularly (Not this particular program but ones like it).

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

If you graduate from this program this is what you have to put on your resume - Master of Liberal Arts, General Management or Finance (depending on your chosen track), Harvard University Extension School.

Looks like crap if you ask me, its better to go to a city school than go to a school that comes off as a scam or a wannabe harvard guy

 
maverick3934:
If you graduate from this program this is what you have to put on your resume - Master of Liberal Arts, General Management or Finance (depending on your chosen track), Harvard University Extension School.

Looks like crap if you ask me, its better to go to a city school than go to a school that comes off as a scam or a wannabe harvard guy

Actually, Harvard University, Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies, Concentration in X, is how you put it on your resume.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

I have to repost this remark from NYC: It had me laughing for a while.

"Going to the extension school to leverage the Harvard name is among the more ridiculous things I've seen on this board in a while, which is saying a lot."

 

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"A modest man, with much to be modest about"
 

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