HELP -- Business School Chances

SirBankalot:

What could he have changed to become realistic at HSW... he's black doesn't that make up for everything he's lacking?

All you PC ninnies need to stop getting your panties in a bunch, Bankalot could've phrased it more tactfully, but he's not far off the mark. He's not saying URMs are stupid, or making blanket statements about the abilities of an entire group - but the fact that certain groups get blanket concessions in admissions is well known.

Business school apps are pretty much a joke to begin with, let alone if you go to a target school. Add to that the fact that OP is a URM! This website is severely skewed in the sample of b school candidates it receives posts from- the people who tend to post are either from non-targets, in which case they are (and need to be) genuinely curious about their chances, or they are from a target and f-ed around in college and are feeling the heat from the stellar apps they see around them from their peers at school.

Talented state school kids get it completely unfair - but thankfully banks do a better job of acknowledging that than admissions depts at schools, because I'd much rather be working super late/in school with someone who can work hard play hard, pull their own weight, and worked their ass off to get where they are than some dipshit who got a free ride.

I've seen URM GPAs with 3.4s to 3.6s from non-targets get into Yale Law - if you know anything about law school admissions, you know how painful that statistic is.

Basically, you have a shit GPA in a joke major, your entry shows what your priorities were in college (you played soccer, and either occasionally showed up to class, or went to every class and are braindead), 730 GMAT is a joke (but above 700 will be considered high for your demographic so you will get a pass- I have an Indian friend that was an engs major at top Ivy, near/top of his class, and had stiff competition at HBS because practically everyone in his demographic had an 800 whereas he had a 790); your profile sucks, but the fact that your URM will make up for it anyways, so just consider yourself lucky.

Ortsman1:

His comment suggests that being black makes up for allshortcomings, that's a racist comment.

Well it worked for Obama. Hayo!

formerMD:

As for SirBankalot's comment, it is offensive and discriminatory to make a statement that someone's race compensates for weak qualifications. Business schools target under-represented groups. They want more of them to apply. They are not in the business of admitting unqualified candidates to their program.

can someone explain to me how this works? you imply that certain races do not = weak qualifications, then attempt to back this up by saying certain people are targeted for admissions outside of the mainstream process with the sole determining factor of race? maybe you haven't heard of a certain little piece of litigation by the name of bakke?

to OP: my advice to you would be to ham up the minority/immigrant bit here. I wouldn't bother taking courses outside of what you're doing now, as there will be people who will have much better college qualifications and I honestly don't think CFA matters for BS. Plenty of people also work to put themselves through school and have high grades and the package, so your best bet is to do other activities outside of school that give you a more compelling 'story.'

I would also take advantage of any minority programs there may be, as well as tailor my apps to every place I apply. I would strongly lean towards saying Wharton is out for you as it is more quantitative as far as bschools go. I would strike MIT and Stanford as well. Harvard and Columbia may be more sympathetic to your story if you can spin it well. I can't tell you with a good deal of accuracy which range your candidacy would fall into (depends on factors like prestige of where you worked, etc..) as I do not have experience with a large number of URM apps, but from what I have seen from a large range of overall bschool apps, I would aim at a lower tier of schools, consider certain places (S/W/MIT) out of reach completely, and apply to a couple of reaches with a very potent spin. (H/C/Tuck) That is my stark advice to you...

Good job pulling up an old thread to post personal attacks rather than adding substantive discussion, but I'm in a good mood, so I'll bite -

1. I am already working at GS/BX/etc. You are a fool to assume otherwise when there is little indicative information on the topic. The fact that I am making my career decisions based on the long-term and that I am even in a position to do so, while you are busy justifying low scores on an online forum, speaks volumes in and of itself.

2. Your comments defending a poor GMAT score seem to be largely self-serving as you have a low 710 yourself. (Full disclosure - I am not Indian, and had an 800.)

3. I have gotten into 3 of the schools OP mentioned, with the exception of MIT/C, which I did not apply to. I therefore have a greater degree of orientation to speak from than someone with a poor score who works in asset management. If you bothered to look at the other thread I've posted, I'm also involved in HFs in some capacity, which leaves me with a greater orientation as far as work experience for BS goes as well.

<span class=keyword_link><a href=/resources/skills/finance/buy-side>Buyside</a></span> <span class=keyword_link><a href=https://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?ii=1145861&amp;c=cart&amp;aff=44880&amp;ejc=2&amp;cl=175031 rel=nofollow>CFA</a></span>:

I'm an american born white christian you fucking moron. And I will have no problem getting into b-school

Starting out in Kenya and making it to an ivy league school while playing college soccer is rare and impressive, and yes it is a good story. If you can't see the difference between that story and one of the 10M Indian IT guys with good gmats is beyond me. AdComs tend to be liberal and liberals love stories about africans overcoming shit

Now let's look at these comments. First, consider this: not everything that is rare is impressive, and not everything impressive is rare. And neither necessarily makes for a good story.

Let's breakdown both categories: There are, as you hinted, a large number of international applications. OP's candidacy is therefore not rare. And compared with Indian applications - both have "made it" immigrant stories, both have worked their way over, both have contributed to cultural groups/extracurricular activities they are sympathetic to, but the Indians generally tend to have higher grades as well as particularly impressive technical/quantitative abilities. Therefore, their situation is more 'impressive' compared to OP's.

But if you knew the first thing about admissions, you'd know it doesn't work out that way. You get compared with your demographic. Therefore, the 10m Indian IT kids that apply will be mixed into the pool of US Indian guys, and they will all have to beat out each others top scores, and ultimately because seats are allotted per demographic, a lot of people with high numbers and impressive (but not rare) stories will get turned down. OP will be mixed into the pool of African/(Americans) and a percentage of that pool will make it in. Anyone who look at admissions demographics can tell you that this demographic's percentage is pretty low. Therefore, for OP to stand out as rare and/or impressive among his pool he must have something particularly distinguishing about his candidacy - as we said earlier, there are plenty of international apps (African too) and a low admit rate for the African demographic as a whole, so since neither his background or his stats are particularly stellar, he has a low percentage of getting in via this demographic. IF, however, OP had something massively unique about his background - he had served in an African army, saved genocide victims, etc. - then he would be rare, and if he had top grades, some special fellowships, worked at a top place - then he would be impressive and maybe rare depending on who else is in his batch. And then, he could leverage one of those things and spin it effectively to overcome his other shortcomings.

What I find most disturbing about your post is the phrasing you used - liberals adcoms love Africans overcoming shit - it implies that Africans are a special subset of immigrants who deserve 'special' admit standards although all immigrants overcome the same shit. Your comment was in fact the standout racist one on this thread. It ignores the fact that there are African/(Americans) who can, and do, perform at a higher level than OP. You could have taken issue with the quotas that seem to exist within admissions, which would have meant that you would have had to impose guidelines to judge across demographics. However, there are no clear rules with such an analysis, as Caucasians, who make up the largest admit category, and are therefore not exactly rare, are also not impressive numerically against the significantly smaller admit group of Indians; so this method is moot for our purpose of discussion. But instead, you chose to assume that because this candidate is African, his poor grades can be made up for by his race which somehow supposedly also equals his story.

Further, your comments about being a white Christian male being able to see the merits of those "Africans overcoming shit" seem to be geared towards getting praise for being able to overcome a stereotypically pervasive bias amongst your demographic. Unfortunately, you stepped on your own foot with the bit about the IT Indians! Maybe you are selective about where to be impartial, or maybe whitey is just pissed that his job got outsourced to a 15 year old that can chomp numbers at the blink of an eye. Or maybe, like the author of the rant on my old thread (you read it all the way through, didn't you?), you're Chinese and have an axe to grind. Either way, enjoy your mediocrity!

PS. New York is indisputably the finance capital of the world - anyplace in the world would honestly be a step down from it! But the fact that you think Mumbai is anyway equatable to Siberia and Mogadishu means you are seriously out of touch and/or a hillbilly honky.. India and China are the hot spots for any and all ventures/growth right now! And between the two, for savvy engineers, India is obviously the no brainer. I'm sure you know this, though, as its all spelled out in my old thread ;)