Greetings WSO!
Like many on this forum, I am considering business school. I will just get straight to it and try to be as brief as possible. There are practically innumerable variables that go into the entire business school process, it’s easy to get lost, or focus too heavily on one aspect. There are a few key questions I have, which I’ve emphasized below (Sidenote: how do you bold text on WSO?).
I would really appreciate the feedback of admitted students, current students, and those that have completed their MBAs already.
BACKSTORY
I spent an internship and then 2.5 years full time after graduation at a large independent oil and gas in oil marketing.
GPA
This, I believe will be the weak point of my application.
My question is, how likely are schools to overlook a low cumulative GPA, in light of a very clear-cut reason (majoring in physics, which is very difficult and largely unrelated to business concepts) and a much stronger major and alternate GPA?
SCHOOLS
What is the strategy in school selection? Obviously the GMAT, GPA, work experience, etc. is easily quantifiable and well-publicized. What about the “soft” admissions criteria? Are there schools that are easier on GPA?
How did you guys arrive at your list of applications? How did you cull the herd down to a manageable number, so that you could really give each application the attention required?
LETTERS OF RECOMMENDATION
How did you approach your current employer about this? The implicit assumption is “will you please help me leave you”, so it’s easy to see how many employers may react negatively to this.
How did you diplomatically secure letters of recommendation from current employers?
TIMING
I know the first round is always going to give an applicant better odds than each subsequent round, but there are many variables.
Would it be better to apply to the first round in your current spot or second round after earning a promotion?
STORY
How did you come up with a convincing “story” about yourself? What was it about your essays that you believe helped to overcome the soft spots in the rest of your application?
Thank you all in advance for the advice! (Or even just for reading the whole thing.)
Bump! Anyone have any insight?
The questions are fairly vague, so I think plenty of people besides myself would benefit from the answers.
Hey there,
So first of all it'll be very helpful to get some numbers out here to see where you really stand - your GPA (and the school name too).. GMAT if you have taken in (or projected GMAT if you've done a decent amount of mocks).
There's no one way to come up with your school list (meaning with all the soft stuff... but if you post more info here (like those numbers and anything about your ECs and Volunteer work) I can likely give you a pretty good idea of where you stand. The GMAT would be the main references point, and then everything else.. depending on your strengths and weaknesses.
R.e. your GPA, first thing to do is kick ass on the GMAT. You have an awesomely high GMAT, then you have proven you are smart and schools will be more flexible. Secondly, if you have a good STORY to explain your low GPA (sick, has problems, working a full-time job, etc. etc.) you could eventually add that into the application. For the moment, I'd just say get the best GMAT you can.
Incidentally, even if you didn't ask, but if you are looking into O&G Finance, Haas, McCombs and Rice are all awesome schools for you :)
Next LORS: Most employers are used tot he process, so you shouldn't have any issues there. People leave jobs and go to new ones. If it may cause some issues (because you are waiting for bonus or proportion or whatever) there are ways around it, but basically don't worry about that now (first, the GMAT)
Finally STORY: This is the key. There is no one solution, but yes, your story will revolve around your strengths and goals, (specifically your post-MBA career goals), and you should work hard to make it passionate and interesting and unique, but also realistic.
There you go dude! If you have any follow-up questions do not hesitate. Jon
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Hey dude, For these "alternate GPAs" if you ask me, it feels like a desperate grab at straws. I mean what the school is interested is not just your academic ability but that average GPA number they will eventually report to the rankings as well. So I don't think that will help much. At this point I think really either a great story or a great GMAT will help you most (or both). Obviously the higher you can get the GMAT the better, but anything better than a 710 should do you justice.
For Has, it's true that they aren't really O&G. I forget the name of it but I was thinking about the Clean Energy program they have, which is not the "dirty energy" you are working with. :) But still since all your traditional O&G programs have alternative energy departments cold be interesting for you.
I agree with coming up with your target list after getting your GMAT. That's how we do things too. Although it's definitely good to look at employment reports and ask around the field to build a potential target school list of schools who send people out to your target employers (which you seem to be doing :) )
Finally, donating is wonderful. But it's not volunteer work. Volunteer work is where you DO something - like teach kids, or fund raise or whatever. I mean everything is relative, but they want to see you going out and making an effort to do something (and ideally to LEAD something). The fundraiser you created should be good for that. And if you can add a bit more it can never hurt,
Best, Jon
Awesome, I really appreciate the advice/insight. Thanks Jon!
Anyone else have any ideas or input?
It really seems like UT is the most logical choice for you, but see below....
GPA
Texas A&M is respectable, but that brand itself won't make up for a lower GPA like say an Ivy would. Also, if it's above a 3.0, it's really not that low. Just focus on your GMATs first. Aim for over 700, hopefully closer to 730-750 and that will basically alleviate any concerns about your ability to do well in the MBA program. Honestly, you majored in Physics, that will be taken into account and a GMAT over 700 should be enough, but if you want an M7 program, mid 700s would be helpful.
SCHOOLS
I picked schools based on where I thought I would have the best chance of getting in, then narrowed it down by fit, and finally added one or two reach schools. I believe for O&G Finance, McCombs is one of the best and with your background that should be pretty attainable.
But generally, I would recommend first looking at your cutoff, for me it was top 20. Next, figure out where you kind of fall competitively (probably in that 8-15 range (Tuck through Cornell/UCLA). After that, look at which ones are good for O&G. Then, look at fit, do you want an immersive community or do you want a more transactional city experience. From there you should have say 3 or 4, then pick 2/3 reach schools from the HSW MIT Columbia. Schools that have a rep for being easier on GPA would probably be Cornell, Duke, and Michigan I guess - yours really isn't an issue though, esp with a high GMAT.
Just a list I would recommend for you - Rice, Texas, Cornell, NYU, Duke, UVA, Columbia, Wharton, Harvard. I applied to 5 and it was a lot of work, I would recommend keeping it around 6. This was hands down the most fun part of the app process.
LETTERS OF RECOMMENDATION
This is tough, but it's a cost of doing business so to speak. Just be respectful and explain to them why you are looking to get an MBA. If they are relatively decent people and value helping their employees, you should be fine. It's a no risk, high reward thing for them. Maybe you go on to get an MBA and hold a position in 10 years that would benefit them in some way. If you don't, they keep a good relationship with you and you continue to work for them. Just pick people you trust, LORs aren't really a huge factor, you just don't want any red flags to be raised.
Another reason you want to keep your apps at a reasonable level is because you are going to need different LORs for each in most cases.
TIMING
First is always the best, so I would focus on your top 2/3 for round one and then apply round 2 for the others. EA is a possibility too if there is one you love.
Regarding the promotion - you can always update your resume or provide the adcom updates after you submit. You can also ask your boss if you can put it on your resume and what not now - kind of grey, but its definitely been done before.
STORY
This part is tricky and honestly may be the most important part. I think your path sounds logical, but you need to have a reason why you need an MBA to move forward in your career and your short and long term career goals should make sense with your past work experience. Remember, everyone knows you aren't 100% sure about what you want to do, but the adcom wants to see a plan. I'd recommend buying a few hours with a consultant to hammer out a good story line, get your resume in good shape, and maybe get some help on the essays. It re
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GPA - with your major and a high GMAT, it won't even be a consideration. I had a lower GPA than you from a top regional program, but nowhere impressive, and got into several 8-15 schools with relatively standard work experience. I've done well, but I wouldn't consider myself some type of unicorn or anything.
Schools/Timing - Yea, sounds about right. I mean apply first round to the ones you would put at the top of your list. So if that is Columba, Chi School, and UVA, go for it. One thing about UVA/Duke is that they are big fit schools - make sure to visit them, contact admissions and ask questions, and go to any information/recruiting events they have around you. UVA in particular really takes that stuff into account. Kellogg seems like an odd choice given that you want to do finance, but it's in a better area than Booth. I wouldn't rule out Wharton honestly. Also consider moving UT up to your first round bracket - as you mentioned, there will be a lot of similar candidates applying.
Story and all of that - yea you may be a unique candidate for schools outside of Texas, but the fact is that you want to return to Texas to work in O&G. So, unless you change your career goals to move into IB or something, they know that UT dominates that industry and that could work against you. I've heard on this forum that UT grads will beat out HSW for those jobs as well.
You stand out through your understanding of the program you apply to, your essays, and whatever ECs you have. You don't need to climb Everest or sail across the world to stand out. The 25 students you see on a school's website are less than 10% of most top 15 schools. Not everyone was a Navy Seal, started a nonprofit, appeared on Jeopardy, etc. Most have pretty common work experience (engineering, finance, accounting, consulting), pretty solid GPAs, good GMAT, but were able to craft strong essays and present well in the interviews. Also, it really doesn't matter what your ECs are, it matters that they have true meaning to you. Maybe you went through some hardship when you were younger and volunteer to help children going through the same thing, or maybe you are still involved in boy scouts or something. Also, a little embellishment is fine - don't over do it, but you're naive if you don't think everyone else is.
I know where you are, I was there not too long ago, but these programs are 100% possible for you. Just do well on your GMATs, put in the effort to show interest with the schools, and work to craft a story and strong essays. If you can do that, you will be fine. Its really all a game - just play to your strengths.
Thanks so much!
Really appreciate the feedback and advice, mba22. Where did you end up going, and why?
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I disagree that a 700+ is sufficient. Given that you scored a 710 cold, there's no reason you cant hit a 740+ on the real thing. With averages at Top 10 schools in the mid 720s (and higher than that for white males), a 740 will make you competitive and give you a shot at M7. Assuming you execute on the GMAT, i think 2 reach, 2 fit, and 2 safety probably makes sense.
Reach - Booth, CBS (Booth makes more sense as a reach than Kellogg given your goals) Fit - Stern, Yale, Duke, UVA (Stern and Yale are better finance feeders than UVA/Duke) "Safety" - UT, UCLA
I'd try to do all of your applications in round one if possible. I did seven in one round and while it was a lot, it's doable.
Thanks! And yes, I'd be thrilled with a 740+...I appreciate it Frank Slaughtery, some solid advice.
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The advice I have received from admissions experts, mentors, and admissions officers themselves, is that you should tell them what is true as opposed to what they want to hear. You're right in thinking that a unique goal is beneficial - hard to dispute that in any field. But part of a career aspiration being unique and desirable from the perspective of AdComs is that it is well thought-out and important to you - both traits that will make it all the more likely that you'll be successful. If your goal is to go into investment banking, there is nothing wrong with that. You'll just need to have a clear reason why you want to go into banking, why you'll be a successful banker, and why you need an MBA to do it, now. I don't think telling CBS you want to go into banking because it's interesting will cut it; it'll take some introspection.
If it's any consolation, I am going through the same process, and it is very difficult.
goals - it's ONE VERSION of a REASONABLE career path (short term & long term goals). Everybody's goals changes, no need to lie for "average" thoughts.
ONE VERSION means that nobody will enforce your application details if your career path naturally deviates after the first semester. If they see you're majoring in different things, they won't knock you for it. If you can articulate your goal well this time (not cheating with Consultants to write it), then you should be able to draft another well-versed career path
REASONABLE means it can be achieved, and your background, along with the school's resources, can make this goal do-able. If the career path is too easy, they'll throw you out as you can do it without MBA; if it's too hard, then MBA adcoms would reject you and suggest you ride SpaceX for the moon shot.
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For help with our GPA and dealing with it, please see accepted.com/137.
For coming up with your story, I completely agree with @ExcelMasterFlex. Tell them what you want them to know, not what you think they want to hear. That's your story.
Thank you Linda!
I have actually previously read your article and (as with most on that site) found it very helpful.
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best of luck with the real deal and round 2! it can be helpful hearing in admission chats (Haas just had one 9/20), Tuck blog, kellogg blog, and mba admission consultant sites. imagine how much time they spend on GMAT/GPA checkboxes versus all other things
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