Hong Kong vs. US

Hello, I'm an undergraduate at a non-target school, currently working in Hong Kong over the summer for a gold trading firm that's about 200-300 people in size. While I've been over here I have heard that westerners get paid significantly more ($150k as an analyst) and it is easier to secure a job. Is this true or just a myth/pre-crisis situation? Thanks.

 

Assume you are a white dude. My 8 years of experience in Hong Kong is forcing me to tell you that leverage your internship to get your first full time in the us. It’s not about pre-crisis or not; it’s about mainland Chinese firms taking over everyone, whether it’s banks or trading houses or asset management firms etc. your 150k number is nothing compared to if you pick a wrong start and then find it hard to correct course. For sure if you like Hong Kong or Asia in general, come back later as an associate or VP. I advise against starting as analyst outside US.

 

I agree with Dollarkeeps raining, the expatriot status in Hong Kong is forever changing. Before, foreigners with a western educational background brings value added to HK and Asian Firms, but since the inception of an internationalised educational structure, plenty of locals with a deep understanding of local cultures are able to take the best from both worlds. Hence you see all the western bulge bracket banks loosing almost all chinese businesses to local and Chinese banks. Being a HK/Mainland Chinese student in the UK, I really do see a big hit in the expat population in HK in the immediate future

 

you also have to remember that although HK pay may be lower, it's tax free...TAX FREE. So someone who makes $400,000 in the US takes home $200,000 in employment income yet to make that amount in HK you only need a gross $200,000 because you take home everything!!! HK experience is generally discounted in the US however with the exception of senior leadership levels and banking groups with more dealflow.

 

ECM on Chinese companies is an adventure in completely made up numbers.

Due diligence is a joke.

You: The chairman's Ph.D is from a non accredited degree farm run out of a post office box in Texas

Director: Sei gweilo! Ligo gongsi bei ngohdhei ho kiu doh chin.

You: OK, so I just ignore these issues? What if David Webb does an piece on this IPO? Or the SFC has an issue...

Director: Ju tao beng! Dim gai ngoh yau ligo gweilo ah? Ho kiu sai hei! Ham gar chan! Dai lo yan bei ngohdhei chin, dim gai leih dan sum ah?

You: OK, I guess I'll just overlook this...

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
SSits:

ECM on Chinese companies is an adventure in completely made up numbers.

Due diligence is a joke.

You: The chairman's Ph.D is from a non accredited degree farm run out of a post office box in Texas

Director: Sei gweilo! Ligo gongsi bei ngohdhei ho kiu doh chin.

Something about being a foreigner and not knowing how business is done in Hong Kong?

SSits:

You: OK, so I just ignore these issues? What if David Webb does a piece on this IPO? Or the SFC has an issue...

Director: Ju tao beng! Dim gai ngoh yau ligo gweilo ah? Ho kiu sai hei! Ham gar chan! Dai lo yan bei ngohdhei chin, dim gai leih dan sum ah?

Something about why waste your time by worrying?

 
SSits:
ECM on Chinese companies is an adventure in completely made up numbers.

Due diligence is a joke.

You: The chairman's Ph.D is from a non accredited degree farm run out of a post office box in Texas

Director: Sei gweilo! Ligo gongsi bei ngohdhei ho kiu doh chin.

Goddamn foreigner! This company is giving us shit loads of money.

SSits:
You: OK, so I just ignore these issues? What if David Webb does an piece on this IPO? Or the SFC has an issue...

Director: Ju tao beng! Dim gai ngoh yau ligo gweilo ah? Ho kiu sai hei! Ham gar chan! Dai lo yan bei ngohdhei chin, dim gai leih dan sum ah?

Dumbass! Why do I even have this foreigner here? frickin waste my time! Screw this sh*t! The chinese mainlanders are paying us, why the heck are you worrying?

 
Best Response

I'm international - couple yrs of experience in the US is really helpful so definitely try to work your way into a summer/full time offer here. Although HK is a strong, developed market, I would argue that the diversity of deals you see in the US and the exposure you receive here as a result beats out experience anywhere, especially at a junior entry level.

Why this decision may be hard for you is because, on a compensation basis you'll definitely take home more in HK coz of tax structure. if you're in NYC, consider ~50% of your bonus wiped out. However, I think you stand to benefit more long-term because of what you bring to the table once you return to the homeland. Easy way to figure out an answer to this question is talk to people who've gone back directly to HK and also those who've stuck it out here for a couple yrs atleast before moving back.

 
c_z:
Second johndoe89's comments. One thing to be careful is that recruiting for HK office is about school brand. So if you don't go to one of those target schools, it is much harder to break in.

I have heard that before. I go to USC, not a target school but with a strong presence in HK. What do you think my chances are? And is networking much less effective in HK compared to in the US?

 

How about from the other side? US student looking to get into I-banking in a foreign market? I'm at a target school but am not sure my grades and experiences are enough to get an internship at a decent I-bank in the US. Furthermore how would someone who spent their first two years in I-banking in HK be looked at for MBA programs or other exit ops back in the states?

 

Quaneaser - i don't think MBA programs will look at you unfavorably because you have international experience, infact it would probably help you stand out. Can't speak much more to that - however, as a US student trying to get into i-banking abroad, make sure you can establish a very strong connection/ties to the location/culture you're applying to. A lot of places outside the US don't really understand the two-and-out program and they want to make sure you're committed to sticking around in the region for a bit (even if you're not, need to fake it well).

 

I think the notion that experience in NY trumps everything is a bit dated. I know a bunch of bankers who were laughed at by their peers for leaving London/NY for Asia 5-10 years ago because it was perceived to be a second tier market. Now the same guys are calling them up, desperate to have a piece of the pie after the layoffs in Europe and the US.

If you're long Asia, then why bother doing an analyst stint in the US first? If you're at a reputable/international shop, your pay will be similar or higher to the US counterpart with a 15% tax rate versus 40+% (your 70k now looks more like 100k...).

I personally started in New York before moving to Asia so I might have a somewhat biased view. I think the argument that the NY experience will teach you all sorts of skills and complex techniques which will make you valuable in Asia is not nearly as strong as some might like you to believe. The level of professionalism and corporate governance is certainly higher (and useful), but a lot of the deal complexity is a result of tax/compliance/regulatory requirements which frankly aren't relevant outside the US.

 
kingb:
I think the notion that experience in NY trumps everything is a bit dated. I know a bunch of bankers who were laughed at by their peers for leaving London/NY for Asia 5-10 years ago because it was perceived to be a second tier market. Now the same guys are calling them up, desperate to have a piece of the pie after the layoffs in Europe and the US.

If you're long Asia, then why bother doing an analyst stint in the US first? If you're at a reputable/international shop, your pay will be similar or higher to the US counterpart with a 15% tax rate versus 40+% (your 70k now looks more like 100k...).

I personally started in New York before moving to Asia so I might have a somewhat biased view. I think the argument that the NY experience will teach you all sorts of skills and complex techniques which will make you valuable in Asia is not nearly as strong as some might like you to believe. The level of professionalism and corporate governance is certainly higher (and useful), but a lot of the deal complexity is a result of tax/compliance/regulatory requirements which frankly aren't relevant outside the US.

Kingb - you have a valid point but I agree with you only to an extent because it's really based on your circumstances. If he's a US citizen whose probably gonna come back to the US anyway, the tax/compliance/regulatory BS is actually going to be very relevant. However, if he's a local from one of those countries and his end goal is to just stick it out in Asia for as long as possible, I'll agree there's no point of his being in NYC.

 
johndoe89:
just re-read he's international from Hong Kong. Regardless, I've had experience working in Asia before and I'd still rather pick NYC than starting out there immediately.

It seems like you changed your mind as to recommending me to go for NYC or asia straight away. So as someone who will probably be working in Asia for most of my life, do you think the effort it takes to try to work in NYC first is worth it?

 

I didn't change my mind - i just said I re-read that you're an international from Hong Kong, and said that regardless I would still start work in NYC. Btw you may be underestimating how difficult it is to get into HK - although there may be lesser people applying, it's also a smaller market so there are fewer opportunities out there(unless of course you're one of those with family connections which then is a completely different story).

As I mentioned, I've had experience working in Asia, and I find working in the US much more exciting, atleast at an entry level. Just my 2c buddy, personal preferences are important.

 

I'm the opposite route. I'm a US native looking to start in US for 2-3 years then transition to HK before b-school. Seems like it would make for an attractive candidate at Top 10's.

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
 

Depending on your background and goals, starting off in Hong Kong right after graduation may also offer you the first-mover advantage. It will also be increasingly difficult for "US natives" to break into Asia in the future.

 

no they do not speak mandarin in HK. however, there are so many deals with mainland china like H ipos that it is almost essential you know how to speak mandarin. in ib or law anyway. thanks for answering to everyone...

 

Wasting Time: Keep your fucking attitude in check and stop acting like a fucking douchebag on the forum. If you don't agree, state your views by all means, but respect other people's contributions.

You remind me of danbush.

 
Wasting Time:
No Chinese national is going to trust a Westerner to conduct deals in Chinese, that'd be insane.

Get your bearings right, you dimwit fucking useless piece of douchebag. I am referring to your comment about chinese national not trusting a westerner to conduct deals in Chinese. My VP did just that. You are really fucking wasting my time. And stop creating havoc in the other forum topics.

Trying to get into PWM ain't you. With your kind of social skills, FUCK OFF.

 

Wasting Time you're a fucking faggot who goes to some no-name dogshit school hoping to score a gig investment banking while getting shit grades in a class as easy-as-goddamn-fuck as Accounting. The fact that you've posted almost 200 times on a forum that's not even that active tells me that you either have no life or are seriously trying to compensate for your goddamn pathetic academic inadequacies. I'd tell you to kill yourself, but I have a feeling that the crushing failure you'll inevitably experience would be more fitting for a pompous faggot like yourself.

And for the record, of the six people I know who work in Hong Kong, four are white.

 

Listen up faggot (yes you wasting fucking time). I interned in HK over this summer and my VP's an american who transferred over from NYC 4 yrs back. He's been actively learning mandarin for the past 4 yrs and he's just as involved in any chinese deals as anyone of us.

You really remind me of danbush.

 

I believe Morgan Stanley for example has the rank of Executive Director after Vice President. It depends on the firm, not the region.

And I also believe that higher-ups can set up an interview for you, but they won't just give you a job (an SA is almost equivalent to a job offer these days). That could result in a anti-meritocracy with possibly incompetent (or less competent) employees.

 

Iure illum qui similique pariatur culpa. Sed et tempora rerum dignissimos cumque quo aut. Consequatur alias ut eligendi eaque.

Id reprehenderit quia dolorem est. Exercitationem qui quod in earum. Ad aperiam doloribus sunt molestiae. Aliquam tempore sed non et molestiae autem officia et. Reprehenderit possimus asperiores aspernatur.

Esse ut consequatur incidunt magnam. Rerum omnis dolor et occaecati. Officia consequuntur et omnis minus. Cumque sint quia in aut sit quis perspiciatis. Provident voluptates delectus voluptatem maiores nostrum tempora aperiam. Ut rerum voluptates architecto fugit qui sit.

Quo est qui officia numquam. Id tempora hic qui modi modi cupiditate ducimus.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”