I was browsing through LinkedIn and saw some of my 2nd/3rd connections had model-esque profile pictures, yet they were VPs/Directors at top investment banks.
How are these women successful (in finance)? Did they actually get there by merit? Or did they use other strategies?
I am genuinely curious. It is not common to see women successful (in high finance).
Please discuss.
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They were smart and worked hard... what's your excuse?
At my undergrad, blonde babe sorority girls all have top offers. They are nowhere near the top of the class, not even top half. It's unfair as sh*t. The whole girl empowerment crap is a scam against [more qualified] men.
Or maybe they are smart enough without being "top of the class," are good looking, and have social skills.
"Smart enough" + social skills is the ticket to success in life. If you're good looking that's icing on the cake.
Edit: Can't tell if it's the neckbeards or the 4.0 with no extracurriculars throwing monkey shit, but the truth hurts, kids.
I don't think it's any secret that if people are drawn to good looking people (movies, commercials sales.) So being good looking also gives you a leg up.
What's the stat, men over 6 feet are 15% of the US population, but 58% of the CEOs of fortune 500 companies are over 6 feet tall.
Also, looking at it from a broader perspective, good looking women are attracted to successful men, and most successful men are at least average looking. Average looking male+good looking female should at least produce a child with good looks but also the genes to be successful. Plus they grow up in an environment that harbors success.
Kind of one of those the rich keep getting richer deals.
Also to add, most of America probably grows up on Disney/cartoons/fantasy where the good looking guy is the hero, and the ugly guy is the villain.
By this logic we would also assume that women who “don’t make the effort” and are unattractive lack the necessary social skills or drive. We also definitely place higher aesthetic expectations on women than we do on men.
Women must be attractive as well as qualified in order to advance in banking. The unattractive ones simply don’t make the cut.
I'm not sure you are meaning to come across this way, but this is gross. How do you know what these women are offering? Did you read their resumes and application? They might have skills or talents that you don't. Don't judge people so quickly.
The finance industry is saturated with men, the proportion of men getting top offers is much, much higher. Imagine what those women must think of "all those hot men, nowhere near to top of the class, not even top half. Its unfair as shit. The whole male dominated finance industry is a scam stopping [more qualified] women entering the industry".....
I understand you, but I really disagree and hope this helps you maybe consider someone else's perspective.
Thanks!
Do you really think female empowerment is about men? The whole fact you think it’s “a scam against men” should say something... females don’t do everything for us you know. This is why we get a bad wrap, women are undrepresneted in finance, we critique women saying that’s because they’re not as qualified, they go to school then they get into finance, then we say “oh they’re only here because they are hot”.... or we make it about men. We have the major advantage in finance and STEM... women have been blocked out for years through major barriers (e.g. men hiring more men who they can see their own qualities reflected in, women being discouraged from learning finance, discriminated against when they take maternity leave etc etc- you don’t need me to rant this at your)
I used to work in IB and there were a handful of women on our floor. Let’s assume you’re point is true and only hot women make it to finance, I think it says a lot too that the industry values women so heavily on looks... rather than the hundreds of qualified [more than men] females out there who get overlooked because they are “not attractive enough”.
Be one of the guys that champions women in the Work place, women will become 50/50 eventually, don’t you want to encourage that? Don’t feel threatened, I don’t, if you’re good enough at your job/at school it won’t impact you because the majority of the finance spots still go to men, it’s just the mediocre ones loosing out... who don’t really even deserve the jobs and you’re not striving to be mediocre right? My unsolicited advice- pull women up they deserve a shot and it’s proven more women (and other diversities) = better performance on the bottom lines, and if you think that’s bullshit, consider if even for selfish reasons, because the same women you champion in finance, might just be the ones who can pull you up in the future.
If you want to chat about this more just PM me, maybe we can help each other understand our points of view!
It’s ‘losing out’. Not even sure what that last phrase means.
It’s not going to become 50/50 because finance is always slanted towards men and other industries are slanted towards women, like fashion. Is fashion going to be 50/50 too at some point? What are you talking about? And 50/50 for nurses? Is this optimistic future of yours all just ... fitty fitty?
Without addressing the ridiculous conceit at the bottom of your argument, think about this - any successful person who has a LinkedIn account is going to want to present well, and will pay for a professional headshot with good lighting, a good camera, nice clothes, etc... anyone can take a halfway decent photo.
Also, you are probably more likely to notice the better looking connections and pass over the less attractive ones, so there is certainly some selection bias there.
We must be in a different industry.....I’m not seeing all of these super hot females running around here.
Being attractive is advantageous in life. With that said, I could go cherry pick some hot animators if I wanted to.
Breaking news: some women work as investment bank VPs and have attractive LinkedIn pics
Stop the presses folks
OP likely has a pretty loose definition of model-esque... any decent looking young woman starts to look like a model after spending too much time in an all-male office. It's like beer goggles... except there are no goggles or beer
Think about when you watch the news, take CNBC for example. Are the people/women on their the hottest? No, but they are good looking enough if they get "primped" they can be above average.
I feel like we have an argument once a week in the office about whether Kelly Evans is hot or not.
It's all comparison though. For example, is Brock Osweiler a good QB? In person, he probably one of the best athletes you would ever meet, and would shred your weekly pick up game; but I'm not juding him on that, I'm judging him on how he does against NFL defenses.
Same thing with the chick in the office, it's not that hard to look better than the mousy chick who wears turtlenecks and thick sweaters, or the 45 year old lady whose overweight, but that doesn't make the "hot" 25 year old able to be on a magazine cover.
Kelly Evans is not hot, at all. Now catherine rampell of the Wash Post and on msnbc a lot... yes, hot jewess.
Life is unfair. Get back to work.
Amen. Everyone has to realize that.
I'll just add that in life there are things you can control and there are things you can not control. If you weren't born looking like Brad Pitt, at least you can work out and maintain a proper physique. I can give more examples, but I think you know where I am going.
And even when it comes to luck, you can create your luck just by showing up in life. If you don't show up, your luck P = 0.
In general: -high income allows high expenditure on cosmetics for beauty/healthier lifestyle -specific areas (sales) might prefer hiring attractive females as honeypots for clients -IB is flooded with people who come from an already upper class background (meaning point 1 x 2)
It could be that people who have the discipline/drive to take care of themselves physically also have the discipline/drive to excel in finance. Being good/decent looking generally helps in the likability department, getting job offers probably isn't much different.
To address the picture comment, I'm sure we are all aware that Bumble/Tinder/Facebook/Instagram pictures are rarely, if ever, a true indicator of how good looking someone is. Especially with women.
True. To add in, when looking at friends from early college days to now, the ones who were naturally attractive but didn't take care of themselves are not as impressing as the "plain" friends who put in the work and diligence to improve.
This is a good point - probably why the OP and some comentors think “hot women” don’t get there for their talents alone...
Maybe part of their “talents” is this ability to present themselves well... hence getting the roles. Also, to go into finance as a women is hard when you have to deal with comments like this taking away from all their card work... so they’re probably pretty badass and ace interviews
I wonder what the correlation is between people who complain about hot girls moving up the ladder in finance and people who defend to the death racial disparity in finance.
Come again? What is your point?
That sounds accurate.
Just curious, what is your view on hot men in finance? Do you think they got there by merit or did they use other strategies?
Look at hotness/attractive as a factor, not the sole reason.
Are the fastest/tallest people in the NFL/NBA; not if they can't catch or shoot. Same with finance.
However, I do believe it's slightly easier to get places if you are good looking, just one less thing to overcome. ( in our own mind and the minds of others). It's open for debate, but it begs questions, can you be success and not be attractive?--yes, can you live a great life and not be rich?-->yes, but for most people if someone could wave a wand and make them attractive and rich I don't think a lot of people would say no.
Yeh this is a good point laid out eloquently... it is definitely a contributing factor to success (albeit not the only factor). I think what I want to get across to the OP though, is that the attractiveness and success correlation is not based on gender. Hot men = more successful and hot women = more successful... for the reasons you stated.
Some people on this post make it out that : hot men are there because they work hard and deserve to be, but hot women are there only because they are hot and don't really deserve it. Which i think is completely incorrect.
I don't think careers should be dependent on physical attractiveness and I hope to take that thought into my own career, but I agree that right now it is a big factors and worryingly i think it probably always will be.
Thanks for the question. As it turns out, you are in luck. I happen to be a hot man, and am happy to chime in. The truth is that all of my achievements are based on my looks. I am a juicy hunk of sizzling tender man meat. No shake n bake required, I am Grade A. So it’s not surprising that women throw themselves onto me wherever I go. Conference rooms, hallways, cafeterias, lobbies. I’ve tried to show I’m smart and capable, but people just keep looking down at my groin. Over time I’ve learned to not fight it and just oblige. It’s the only way I can get ahead. I’ve had to buy so many pants and shirts because women just rip them off
I've always looked at it like, no matter how attractive the guy is, if he's successful, he's going to have a shot at the hottest women. IB highly favors kids of the already successful, who hit the genetic and the social status lottery from mom and dad. The kid might not be Gisele hot, but he/she will at least play in her area of attractiveness.
Some what that's just how society thinks. I think if you live in a city, some people may be progressive, but I think still we live in a world where women like successful men and men like attractive women; not saying that's right or wrong.
I remember two Olympics ago when Michael Phelps and Katie Ledecky both won gold medals.
Top Google search for Phelps--> "Michael Phelps net worth" Top Google search for Ledecky--> "Katie Ledecky bikini shot"
That's a really good reference... I guess your point makes me realize why I think we have to change things...
So that men aren't soley judged on their success (and worth) and women on their looks. Its no wonder there is so much pressure, depression and mental health issues. It would make society a much more stable place and people a lot happier if we could be judged as individuals rather on what we are told is valuable about us based on what gender we are born.
Society plays a big role in how we perceive people and then that kids passed along to kids. There's always that combination of career success and decent looking parents that gets kids into top schools as that's how they're groomed in the elitism of cities or polished neighborhoods, which is the same variable leading to IB. I think IB used to be the spot kids went to so they could make enough money to go do the thing they really wanted to do, or pay for stuff their parents stopped paying for but was always entitled to them, that's just my quacky presumption.
If you're young and entitled like that, why else would you find it ok to churn out that 100th iteration of some uninteresting pitchbook, that took you 23 hours to complete? Today, there may be more legitimately desperate kids going to IB with free online resources, but that wasn't always the case. Most of the kids originally went to uphold the name of their family, which liked to brag to their neighbors about their son's/daughter's prestigious job, or their family made ok money but not enough to uphold the American dream to the child.
Examples are people like Chelsea Clinton, the Bush family, there are a scatter of examples but you can tell that kids that go into IB and make it to the top are not just coming out of the weeds somewhere. It's some premeditated plan and always had been when you see these people in those spots.
Lol show me the investment bank with all female VPs and Directors? Oh, you can't? that's weird
Say there are 15 VPs at a bank and 2 are women and they both happen to be attractive, the OP thinks "wow women have it so much easier, they just have to be hot to make it" instead of "wow, women have it so much harder, not only do they need to be better/faster/smarter than their peers, they also have to be hot".
This is spot on @little-monkey
Pretty sure most women self-select out of investment banking (finance, in general). By your logic, men face discrimination in nursing and teaching.
Actually men do face discrimination in some careers, including nursing. Mainly because patients feel that women provide better care. However, patients polled saying they didn't want a male nurse when re-polled were mostly satisfied with the care that a male nurse gave.
One thing being overlooked here is also what we each consider "hot" or "attractive"; one man's 9 is another man's 6. No secret, but people working in finance and IB have relatively high incomes. We live in time now where you can pretty much buy any aspect or way you want to look sans height.
Example, bc I just saw the commerical, look at Lori Greiner on Shark Tank, we can debate all day on whether we individually think she's hot or attractive, but she's 48 and definitely way better looking than some 24 year olds I see/know.
Point is, in this day it's not that hard to buy hotness, any women with money can.
Yeah they self-select out because it’s a fucking awful working environment for women because of people like OP and a number of other posters in this thread. There’s no possible way you can argue that women have an easier time in finance in the shit frat bro culture most banks perpetuate...
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