How can anyone possibly love their parents?

“To never have been born may be the greatest boon of all.” - Sophocles

I think you raise an interesting question however I disagree when you imply it’s wrong for parents to force their definition of an “ideal” on their progeny. Would it be more admirable if parents abandoned children to make their own way in the world and develop an independent definition of “ideal”? I think it’s admirable for parents to try and instill principles in children...they may be the wrong principles but it’s better than the alternative.

Whether or not people should procreate is a different matter entirely. I think reproduction is a basic tenet of life and to deny the instinct is to go against our basest nature. Frankly, most humans are not sophisticated enough to deny that instinct when coupled with the definition of “ideal” that was “forced” upon them.

But to answer your question, you can love your parents because while they did put you on this what admittedly at times can be a god-forsaken, wasteland of a planet, they could have made it so much worse.

Maybe our souls were created and we interacted with a creator god before birth, at which point we gave our consent to go to Earth.

“In the beginning the Universe was created. This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”

― Douglas Adams

Looks like they would have been better off teaching you perspective. If you have a $400,000 education under your belt I bet you can do more than 95% of the people in the world. Go buy yourself a motorcycle and travel the world a la Obi Wan until you play the field enough to determine what you want.

Also, your simple math sucks. Parents are responsible for every single goddamn freedom you have, as you'd have null without them. You're free to return to null freedoms anytime you want.

They raised you the way they saw best, and I have a feeling that if you don't ragequit life your kids are gonna find some reason to hate you too. Single source of income? Really? Learn it yourself, jesus.

I do want to encourage your first attempts at introspection though, keep at it and maybe you'll surpass the angsty teen phase soon.

I feel like your post is about to become the most MSed post of all time.

MonacoMonkey:

If existence is ultimately about having "rights" and "freedoms", then you should theoretically deplore your parents. After all, they dropped you on this planet without your consent. No one consulted you on your own existence (arguably the biggest thing that happen(s)(ed) to you). Isn't that ironic?

Barring a few exceptions (think billionaires and double/triple digit millionaires who give you limitless funds to pursue your true passions at a young age), your left to essentially suffer and be subjugated by society at large. [The definition of suffer heretofore is "anything that one must do against his/her true desires"] In school, forced to obey teachers, deadlines, rules. In work, forced to obey supervisors, bosses, company "policies". Essentially, live a structured life as a directiveless plebeian bourne to please and toil for the super-elite.

A bit of backstory about me that many here might (or might not) be curious about. I was born in Salt Lake City and raised in Connecticut to upper middle class parents, both of whom are specialty doctors. Although not hedge-fund wealthy, we were definitely not short of money. Think full stucco, 3 car garage, 'wraparound driveway with a fountain' house in the burbs. But my parents were straight edge folks. Getting good grades, studying hard, conforming to norms was paramount. Abiding by this notion, they supported me through my higher education, covering nearly $400k (possibly more) in tuition, housing, etc.

Perhaps I'm a unthankful son of a bitch (or just a late-stage nihilist about to exercise his right to life and the inverse), but somehow, I completely dispprove of them (both in the fact they decided not to abort me, and their parenting style). [Yes, you're allowed to feel bad for my parents for having such a dick child.]

So now I'm stuck in a corporate-esque type of routine. Doing something "sitting down". And quite honestly, getting extremely mundane (not the stock market again).

When I see Olympic skiiers, or bobsledding teams train for days on end, I can't help but wonder why my parents didn't encourgage me to practice something unique as a child. Something that wouldn't tether me to a single source of income. But rather, allow me to explore dozens of interests.

So in summation. People really ought to reconsidering procreating. Unless you're a billionaire, your child is bound to suffer in his/her life (and not be truly free). And also, since you can't read your child's intentions/desires at a young age, it's impossible to develop what THEY are interested in from a young age. In essence, you're forcing YOUR definition of "ideal" onto another person, which is rather selfish.

So, with all the brouhaha over "personal rights" to literally everything nowadays, how do people manage to love their parents?

"Is it possible that existence is our exile and nothingness our home?" ~Emil Cioran

Do you love your parents?

Have you ever loved someone?

By just reading the thread title I 100% knew who the OP was going to be.

MonacoMonkey:

If existence is ultimately about having "rights" and "freedoms", then you should theoretically deplore your parents. After all, they dropped you on this planet without your consent. No one consulted you on your own existence (arguably the biggest thing that happen(s)(ed) to you). Isn't that ironic?

I'm with Dawkins on this one, which is to say:

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?

Firstly, nihilism is bullshit. Second, you can't conflate freedoms with rights, especially in the context of younger kids or an upbringing. Third, as someone who grew up and lives in CT (gold coast) I can promise you that these wealthy (millionaire/billionaire) Fairfield county families tend to be both shallow and bleak. There is no correlation between ones status in the social hierarchy and free will, nor will there ever be. I suggest reading papers in relation to evolutionary biology/psychology as it will dismantle the nihilistic view and refute many of the questions/statements you have presented.

I too remember when I was an edgy teenager.

You have alluded to killing yourself in many posts, which makes me think you’re somewhat serious.

Are you thinking of killing yourself?

If so, please let someone you know immediately so they can get you help.

MonacoMonkey WallStreetOasis.com

If you’re finding yourself stuck, maybe you need a change of scenery and time to reflect on what you want to get out of life.

You probably have enough money, so go out and travel. Live life out of a suitcase and in different places for awhile. Gives you a chance to see how others live their lives and see if there’s any inspiration on what you want. Actually, there are also work-and-travel type programs out there. I forgot the name but I was at this modern hostel in Kyoto (not really a hostel but not quite traditional hotel either) and its lounge doubles as a coworking space and a lot of people were working (coding, presentations, etc). During the day they check out the sights, and evenings they work. You’d probably get to meet a lot of people from different places this way too.

lol. Two parents that are specialty doctors and covered your $400K education sounds more than "upper middle class"

Want a trip? You don't dislike your parents and disapprove of their lifestyle, you dislike and disapprove of your own. You're in control big guy, you wanna be liberated and not subject to the school, corporate, marry, kids, then retire lifestyle, that's up to you. but don't blame your parents. Hope you find a way to break free from whatever mental constraint you have and find what makes you happy. but don't forget, some people see just drone through life not realizing that the lifestyle i described above is a societal construct, while others see that and realize their options but choose it anyways. There's a lot of good in that life.

MonacoMonkey, step back from the ledge. I grew up in a wealthy suburb with two specialty physicians as parents. I disagreed damn well with how my parents raised me and it has taken a long time to be able to honestly discuss that with them. I've had my issues with them and no matter whether I loved them or hated them at any point in time, they loved me unconditionally, whether they wanted to admit it or not. I'm sure your parents are the same way.

I also have to agree with DickFuld. While I haven't read your post history, you clearly have a lot of underlying issues that you need to work out. Not saying that's a bad thing, because everyone does, but it sounds like you don't have the wherewithal to ask for help. Asking for help can be a tough thing. Despite what you say about not loving your parents, and being an unthankful, cynical late-stage nihilist, I'm sure that they do, deep down, care for you. Sometimes you don't realize it until its too late. This isn't one of those times where you should embrace whatever negativity is feeding you. It should be a sign that something is off and you need to change it. Change, however, requires a thirst for it. If you ask them for help, whether you love them or not, they will find a way to help. Help is absolutely crucial, especially as it also sounds like you have some signs of depression. I'm not a doctor so I'm not diagnosing anything, but based on this post and some of the comments here, I would find a Psychologist to speak to.

you win the award for most unusual post topics, though we can agree on this statement

MonacoMonkey:

A bit of backstory about me that many here might not be curious about.

We aren’t thrown into this world. We grow out of it, like leaves from a tree

You can thank Alan Watts for that insight, which was a cornerstone of his philosophy

Looks like someone didn't get their allowance. Lmao this is such a joke, I know people who are so worse off and have more optimism than OP.

If you had any sense you'd realize you were lucky to have parents that were there for you in the first place since many don't even have that. On top of that they were able to support you financially way past the point that most parents who love their kids can. Even if you ignorantly criticize the way they raised you after the fact you need some maturity to realize that they are human beings in their right and shouldn't be held to the standard of perfection.

So shut the fuck up and show some respect.

This post is in the same vein as Chris McCandless which was subsequently covered and written about by Jon Krakauer in "Into the Wild". A disenfranchised youth goes into the wilderness and finds truth and death. His rejection of his parents life, and the opportunities afforded to him by their hard work turn out to be nothing more than the whim of an adolescent.

If you have no serious obstacle in life due to financial position, you blame your parents on not being able to to throw obstacles in your way. You speak from a profound position of privilege which 99% of the population cannot fathom. Join a club, or a sport, or brazilian jiu jitsu, I guarantee you will be humbled. At one point in life you have to realize that you cannot hold your parents accountable for your wants and wishes, and most importantly failures.

OP- You were showered with support that most can only dream of. Maybe you don't agree with the methods etc., but it sounds like your parents put plenty of effort into raising you to the best of their abilities. If you had ever experienced what lies on the other end of the spectrum, I PROMISE you would value the sacrifices made on your behalf. If you are feeling depressed, go seek professional help. If you are ready to put in the effort and not try to pull some Good Will Hunting bullshit on your therapist, you will see results. Placing blame on society and your family is a cop out. Many people (myself included) have battled depression for years, and I can say from experience that you are the one in control of your happiness.

If you're legitimately not happy from seeking personal accomplishment/experience, you could also, you know, try to give back to society. Few things give as much perspective and genuine appreciation for one's own situation than helping someone more unfortunate than yourself. In addition to being just a good thing to do and a nice act, altruism makes you feel good about yourself.... Just food for thought. Might be more helpful to you than jumping on another plane to Ibiza, etc.

Poor Monaco. Sounds like you need a hug. Sounds more like you're starved for attention.

A spoiled rich kid from the upper-crust northeast whining about the question of their existence is, well, pathetic.

This is the kind of post that just screams "LOVE ME! HATE ME! ANYTHING, JUST GIVE ME ATTENTION!"

Perhaps that is where your obviously loathsome parents failed you. So, sounds like you did well by learning how to lead a meaningful adulthood. Get an Ivy-league education and get on that corporate hamster-wheel of more money and more excess.

Sometimes, if all you can get out of your parents is to learn what a good example of a bad example is, you have gotten more than many children get from their parents in a lifetime. Then again, you also received a $400k education, and I suspect many frivolous luxuries that 98% of Americans will never experience in a lifetime on their own dime, much less on mom and dad's.

Money is not the root of all evil. Love of money is the root of all evil.

Ahh, a fellow late-stage nihilist, willing to take the risk of venting in a site filled with corporate lowlifes that have a warped sense of masculinity.

Most nearly anyone here will not care for what you have to say and they have a bit of reason but let me say a few things.

I recently posted something along the same tone of what you wrote except regarding an actual direction to take in finance (I'm college-aged still). As you're experiencing, the responses were reverse-arrogant and incredibly pompous. In my situation, I have my family (both immediate and extended, the latter of which drives the former because they have the money) to blame for lots of shit.

However, we're a bit different in the sense that you've had the privilege of a consistent, mostly normal upbringing with just the inconvenience of straight edge parents. I, on the other hand, had a manic upbringing characterized by excess privilege stifled by periods of the exact opposite once when we forced to vacate our home, for instance. On top of that, I had parents like yours except mine didn't finish school (and I'm talking HS, not even college). So for me, that pressure was beyond proportion. In a way, I'd kill to have your parents - normal, educated types that can possibly be reasoned with; never once for me could I reason with mine - even my fucking haircut was their directive as late as age 17.

So to keep things readable, I'd say this much: as everyone here is saying albeit in a more arrogant, dismissive fashion, you are fortunate, pal, and you're expressing pains that everyone experiences by default. No one can choose what life they come in to. However, I understand that you're speaking for everyone and not just yourself, in which case, I agree that in general it IS fucked up but as we are a pragmatic world, it begs the question: what the fuck can we do about it?

For one, we can as a society move towards shaming parents that control their children excessively (for me, this has caused immeasurable harm, personally) and as parents ourselves ensure that we solve for whatever problems we ourselves experienced as youth.

Secondly, and to the beneficial effect against overpopulation, we can espouse the idea that it's not worth having children unless you've achieved such financial freedom that those offspring can do whatever the hell they want with only our parenting itself to be limiting factors, and not financial resources.

I have ALWAYS told myself: I won't have children unless I myself (meaning not on family wealth that can be disputed by jealous cousins, etc) have enough wealth that I KNOW my kids won't lack in that sense. We should aim for the best offspring. And how can they be best? By giving them everything they need to succeed coupled with not cutting their proverbial oxygen to pursue their lives AND a simultaneous jolt towards tradition so that they don't become useless in a traditional, stuckup 50s sense of the word.

Overall, I appreciate you putting this question forward. It's 5:45am (EST) and I'm watching the sun rise from my office and was dozing off until I read this and felt the great urge to say something amidst the total uncouth dickhead hardos that compete to be the wittiest. Everyone's witty until life stares darkly at you, fellas.

Anyway, feel free to PM me if you have any other similar perturbations that are not compatible with open-ended posts. I feel there should be more psychiatric space for our industry as special snowflakey as that sounds. In the end, we can all benefit from it, pursue more profitable opportunities free of the restraints of convention, and unlock more shareholder value (shares of life).