How can anyone possibly love their parents?

MonacoMonkey's picture
Rank: Neanderthal | 2,264

If existence is ultimately about having "rights" and "freedoms", then you should theoretically deplore your parents. After all, they dropped you on this planet without your consent. No one consulted you on your own existence (arguably the biggest thing that happen(s)(ed) to you). Isn't that ironic?

Barring a few exceptions (think billionaires and double/triple digit millionaires who give you limitless funds to pursue your true passions at a young age), your left to essentially suffer and be subjugated by society at large. [The definition of suffer heretofore is "anything that one must do against his/her true desires"] In school, forced to obey teachers, deadlines, rules. In work, forced to obey supervisors, bosses, company "policies". Essentially, live a structured life as a directiveless plebeian bourne to please and toil for the super-elite.

A bit of backstory about me that many here might (or might not) be curious about. I was born in Salt Lake City and raised in Connecticut to upper middle class parents, both of whom are specialty doctors. Although not hedge-fund wealthy, we were definitely not short of money. Think full stucco, 3 car garage, 'wraparound driveway with a fountain' house in the burbs. But my parents were straight edge folks. Getting good grades, studying hard, conforming to norms was paramount. Abiding by this notion, they supported me through my higher education, covering nearly $400k (possibly more) in tuition, housing, etc.

Perhaps I'm a unthankful son of a bitch (or just a late-stage nihilist about to exercise his right to life and the inverse), but somehow, I completely dispprove of them (both in the fact they decided not to abort me, and their parenting style). [Yes, you're allowed to feel bad for my parents for having such a dick child.]

So now I'm stuck in a corporate-esque type of routine. Doing something "sitting down". And quite honestly, getting extremely mundane (not the stock market again).

When I see Olympic skiiers, or bobsledding teams train for days on end, I can't help but wonder why my parents didn't encourgage me to practice something unique as a child. Something that wouldn't tether me to a single source of income. But rather, allow me to explore dozens of interests.

So in summation. People really ought to reconsidering procreating. Unless you're a billionaire, your child is bound to suffer in his/her life (and not be truly free). And also, since you can't read your child's intentions/desires at a young age, it's impossible to develop what THEY are interested in from a young age. In essence, you're forcing YOUR definition of "ideal" onto another person, which is rather selfish.

So, with all the brouhaha over "personal rights" to literally everything nowadays, how do people manage to love their parents?

"Is it possible that existence is our exile and nothingness our home?" ~Emil Cioran

Comments (42)

Best Response
Mar 15, 2018

All I got out of that is that you would trade your $400k education and upbringing to be a bobsleder.

    • 20
Mar 22, 2018

Feel the rhythm! Feel the rhyme! Get on up! It's bobsled time!

    • 1
Mar 16, 2018

"To never have been born may be the greatest boon of all." - Sophocles

I think you raise an interesting question however I disagree when you imply it's wrong for parents to force their definition of an "ideal" on their progeny. Would it be more admirable if parents abandoned children to make their own way in the world and develop an independent definition of "ideal"? I think it's admirable for parents to try and instill principles in children...they may be the wrong principles but it's better than the alternative.

Whether or not people should procreate is a different matter entirely. I think reproduction is a basic tenet of life and to deny the instinct is to go against our basest nature. Frankly, most humans are not sophisticated enough to deny that instinct when coupled with the definition of "ideal" that was "forced" upon them.

But to answer your question, you can love your parents because while they did put you on this what admittedly at times can be a god-forsaken, wasteland of a planet, they could have made it so much worse.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2018

Maybe our souls were created and we interacted with a creator god before birth, at which point we gave our consent to go to Earth.

Mar 15, 2018

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

-- Douglas Adams

Looks like they would have been better off teaching you perspective. If you have a $400,000 education under your belt I bet you can do more than 95% of the people in the world. Go buy yourself a motorcycle and travel the world a la Obi Wan until you play the field enough to determine what you want.

Also, your simple math sucks. Parents are responsible for every single goddamn freedom you have, as you'd have null without them. You're free to return to null freedoms anytime you want.

They raised you the way they saw best, and I have a feeling that if you don't ragequit life your kids are gonna find some reason to hate you too. Single source of income? Really? Learn it yourself, jesus.

I do want to encourage your first attempts at introspection though, keep at it and maybe you'll surpass the angsty teen phase soon.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2018

I feel like your post is about to become the most MSed post of all time.

    • 1
Mar 22, 2018
CanadianWIB:

I feel like your post is about to become the most MSed post of all time.

He made a post yesterday promoting slavery as a better alternate to work. You never know.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2018
MonacoMonkey:

If existence is ultimately about having "rights" and "freedoms", then you should theoretically deplore your parents. After all, they dropped you on this planet without your consent. No one consulted you on your own existence (arguably the biggest thing that happen(s)(ed) to you). Isn't that ironic?

Barring a few exceptions (think billionaires and double/triple digit millionaires who give you limitless funds to pursue your true passions at a young age), your left to essentially suffer and be subjugated by society at large. [The definition of suffer heretofore is "anything that one must do against his/her true desires"] In school, forced to obey teachers, deadlines, rules. In work, forced to obey supervisors, bosses, company "policies". Essentially, live a structured life as a directiveless plebeian bourne to please and toil for the super-elite.

A bit of backstory about me that many here might (or might not) be curious about. I was born in Salt Lake City and raised in Connecticut to upper middle class parents, both of whom are specialty doctors. Although not hedge-fund wealthy, we were definitely not short of money. Think full stucco, 3 car garage, 'wraparound driveway with a fountain' house in the burbs. But my parents were straight edge folks. Getting good grades, studying hard, conforming to norms was paramount. Abiding by this notion, they supported me through my higher education, covering nearly $400k (possibly more) in tuition, housing, etc.

Perhaps I'm a unthankful son of a bitch (or just a late-stage nihilist about to exercise his right to life and the inverse), but somehow, I completely dispprove of them (both in the fact they decided not to abort me, and their parenting style). [Yes, you're allowed to feel bad for my parents for having such a dick child.]

So now I'm stuck in a corporate-esque type of routine. Doing something "sitting down". And quite honestly, getting extremely mundane (not the stock market again).

When I see Olympic skiiers, or bobsledding teams train for days on end, I can't help but wonder why my parents didn't encourgage me to practice something unique as a child. Something that wouldn't tether me to a single source of income. But rather, allow me to explore dozens of interests.

So in summation. People really ought to reconsidering procreating. Unless you're a billionaire, your child is bound to suffer in his/her life (and not be truly free). And also, since you can't read your child's intentions/desires at a young age, it's impossible to develop what THEY are interested in from a young age. In essence, you're forcing YOUR definition of "ideal" onto another person, which is rather selfish.

So, with all the brouhaha over "personal rights" to literally everything nowadays, how do people manage to love their parents?

"Is it possible that existence is our exile and nothingness our home?" ~Emil Cioran

Do you love your parents?

Have you ever loved someone?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Mar 16, 2018

By just reading the thread title I 100% knew who the OP was going to be.

    • 3
Mar 16, 2018
Pmc2ghy:

By just reading the thread title I 100% knew who the OP was going to be.

na na na na na na na na na na na na...

batman!!!!

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Mar 16, 2018
MonacoMonkey:

If existence is ultimately about having "rights" and "freedoms", then you should theoretically deplore your parents. After all, they dropped you on this planet without your consent. No one consulted you on your own existence (arguably the biggest thing that happen(s)(ed) to you). Isn't that ironic?

I'm with Dawkins on this one, which is to say:

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?

    • 6
Mar 16, 2018

Firstly, nihilism is bullshit. Second, you can't conflate freedoms with rights, especially in the context of younger kids or an upbringing. Third, as someone who grew up and lives in CT (gold coast) I can promise you that these wealthy (millionaire/billionaire) Fairfield county families tend to be both shallow and bleak. There is no correlation between ones status in the social hierarchy and free will, nor will there ever be. I suggest reading papers in relation to evolutionary biology/psychology as it will dismantle the nihilistic view and refute many of the questions/statements you have presented.

    • 5
Mar 16, 2018

I too remember when I was an edgy teenager.

    • 4
Mar 16, 2018

You have alluded to killing yourself in many posts, which makes me think you're somewhat serious.

Are you thinking of killing yourself?

If so, please let someone you know immediately so they can get you help.

@MonacoMonkey
@WallStreetOasis.com

    • 5
Mar 16, 2018
DickFuld:

You have alluded to killing yourself in many posts, which makes me think you're somewhat serious.

Are you thinking of killing yourself?

If so, please let someone you know immediately so they can get you help.

@MonacoMonkey
@WallStreetOasis.com

Yeah, this could be serious.

It's hard to tell when edginess is mixed with eloquence. It could be a dark poetic justice, but that is often dangerous as well.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Mar 18, 2018

I don't think there's a single optimist in this world who hasn't had the thought (however fleeting) of exploring the inverse of life.

"Only optimists commit suicide, optimists who no longer succeed at being optimists. The others, having no reason to live, why would they have any to die?" ~Emil Cioran

And let's be frank, it's better for society if this person is introspective (as oppossed to outwardly looking, i.e. homicidal).

--

We humans have the right to marriage and divorce. To entering into an employment contract, and to exit the contract. To speech, and to silence. To be honest, and to lie.

We also have a right to life, but why not to death? I'm genuinely curious.

Mar 19, 2018
MonacoMonkey:

I don't think there's a single optimist in this world who hasn't had the thought (however fleeting) of exploring the inverse of life.

"Only optimists commit suicide, optimists who no longer succeed at being optimists. The others, having no reason to live, why would they have any to die?" ~Emil Cioran

And let's be frank, it's better for society if this person is introspective (as oppossed to outwardly looking, i.e. homicidal).

--

We humans have the right to marriage and divorce. To entering into an employment contract, and to exit the contract. To speech, and to silence. To be honest, and to lie.

We also have a right to life, but why not to death? I'm genuinely curious.

I think you have the right....I just think it's a wasted opportunity for healthy people.

    • 1
Mar 21, 2018
MonacoMonkey:

I don't think there's a single optimist in this world who hasn't had the thought (however fleeting) of exploring the inverse of life.

"Only optimists commit suicide, optimists who no longer succeed at being optimists. The others, having no reason to live, why would they have any to die?" ~Emil Cioran

And let's be frank, it's better for society if this person is introspective (as oppossed to outwardly looking, i.e. homicidal).

--

We humans have the right to marriage and divorce. To entering into an employment contract, and to exit the contract. To speech, and to silence. To be honest, and to lie.

We also have a right to life, but why not to death? I'm genuinely curious.

We do not have the right to life in the US. Abortion is legal.

We do not have the right to death in the US. Parts of Europe do (Switzerland I think).

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
Mar 16, 2018

If you're finding yourself stuck, maybe you need a change of scenery and time to reflect on what you want to get out of life.

You probably have enough money, so go out and travel. Live life out of a suitcase and in different places for awhile. Gives you a chance to see how others live their lives and see if there's any inspiration on what you want. Actually, there are also work-and-travel type programs out there. I forgot the name but I was at this modern hostel in Kyoto (not really a hostel but not quite traditional hotel either) and its lounge doubles as a coworking space and a lot of people were working (coding, presentations, etc). During the day they check out the sights, and evenings they work. You'd probably get to meet a lot of people from different places this way too.

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Mar 18, 2018

I'm genuinely afraid I'll run out of places to visit. Having traveled almost non-stop for the past 5 years, it's come to the point that if the few remaining places are "checked off", I'll have "nothing more to see on this planet."

So I'm on Google Flights using their "explore" feature. I can go anywhere. I've been (almost) everywhere. Yet it's so difficult to commit to a destination, knowing that eventually, all good things must come to an end.

In the year 3018, people will pity our poor souls. "A millenia ago, people were forced to stay on earth, having no options to vacation on orbital satellites or Mars."

Mar 19, 2018

I find this a bit hard to believe, especially if you work in finance just given most people's lack of time. Though maybe you've just been lucky in that you get to travel for work, or have done so since your youth, or took a lot of time off.

Can one really run out of places to see? The world is so damn vast. I have to ask, when you visit these places on your bucket list, are you skimming the surface or are you really getting into the local scenes and events. And what about actually living in some of these places? Living and visiting are two very different experiences. Experiencing life from a different view might be beneficial in gaining perspective about others and yourself - what might give you meaning, purpose, drive, passion...

I'm just throwing it out there, but is there a sport or hobby you find interesting you'd like to pick up or build on? Surfing, sailing, mountain climbing, diving, art, cuisine...

Or maybe you're too inwardly focus. Maybe helping others in some shape or form (mentorship, volunteering, etc) could work

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Mar 19, 2018

When you travel somewhere how long do you normally stay and what types of things do you like to do?

EDIT: Where have you been that you have liked and where have you been that you haven't liked?

Mar 16, 2018

lol. Two parents that are specialty doctors and covered your $400K education sounds more than "upper middle class"

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Mar 16, 2018
FrkWhite:

lol. Two parents that are specialty doctors and covered your $400K education sounds more than "upper middle class"

Funny, I thought two doctors on WSO = barely scraping by.

You're not upper middle class on WSO until you're wiping your butt with a new cashmere Burberry scarf every time you feel a little squirt in the trousers of your Kiton suit.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
Mar 16, 2018

Want a trip? You don't dislike your parents and disapprove of their lifestyle, you dislike and disapprove of your own. You're in control big guy, you wanna be liberated and not subject to the school, corporate, marry, kids, then retire lifestyle, that's up to you. but don't blame your parents. Hope you find a way to break free from whatever mental constraint you have and find what makes you happy. but don't forget, some people see just drone through life not realizing that the lifestyle i described above is a societal construct, while others see that and realize their options but choose it anyways. There's a lot of good in that life.

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Mar 16, 2018

@MonacoMonkey, step back from the ledge. I grew up in a wealthy suburb with two specialty physicians as parents. I disagreed damn well with how my parents raised me and it has taken a long time to be able to honestly discuss that with them. I've had my issues with them and no matter whether I loved them or hated them at any point in time, they loved me unconditionally, whether they wanted to admit it or not. I'm sure your parents are the same way.

I also have to agree with @DickFuld. While I haven't read your post history, you clearly have a lot of underlying issues that you need to work out. Not saying that's a bad thing, because everyone does, but it sounds like you don't have the wherewithal to ask for help. Asking for help can be a tough thing. Despite what you say about not loving your parents, and being an unthankful, cynical late-stage nihilist, I'm sure that they do, deep down, care for you. Sometimes you don't realize it until its too late. This isn't one of those times where you should embrace whatever negativity is feeding you. It should be a sign that something is off and you need to change it. Change, however, requires a thirst for it. If you ask them for help, whether you love them or not, they will find a way to help. Help is absolutely crucial, especially as it also sounds like you have some signs of depression. I'm not a doctor so I'm not diagnosing anything, but based on this post and some of the comments here, I would find a Psychologist to speak to.

Mar 18, 2018

the "help" stage has been tried. when TWO counselors (one school psychiatrist, one associate dean) show up at my offcampus condo on a Saturday morning, you know it's been tried and proven (uneffective). they're nothing more than people who want a paycheck, although the psychiatrist refused to tell me her salary.

you cannot "help" someone if you don't have their thought process. for example, few people would go up to a terminally ill patient (cancer, etc) and tell them how LUCKY they are.

after all, they know precisely when they will leave. it [the certainty] should be celebrated. meanwhile our poor plebian (life addicted) humans are walking aimlessly through life in an illusion of "purpose", "achievement", and "relationships", having nary a clue when we will expire and forced to ensure a myriad of long-term chaos to mitigate this unknown.

Mar 19, 2018

No. It looks like the "help" stage wasn't tried. Having someone check in on you is different than seeking it yourself. You said it yourself - you can't help someone if you don't have their thought process, but that's irrelevant if you don't want help and open up. This sounds like you were confrontational, aggressive, and refused to accept the help they offered. Simply being intransigent doesn't prove that you are right, nor does the false equivalency you presented serve any real purpose. And yes, you can help people without understanding their thought process. Sometimes, the genuine offer to help may be all that you can do and is sufficient enough to show someone in need that people care for them.

The thing you forget about help is that it requires you to either ask for it or accept when its genuinely offered. If you don't want help, you'll continue to turn it down. If you want help, you'll seek it out. I said it in my last post - change requires you to actively want to improve yourself. It sounds like you honestly don't. I still recommend you find a doctor you trust and willingly seek help. Open up to your doctor and let that person in to understand your thought process; let them listen and offer you insight into your situation. As I said before, you need to want help and understand that only you can drive change.

Mar 16, 2018

you win the award for most unusual post topics, though we can agree on this statement

MonacoMonkey:

A bit of backstory about me that many here might not be curious about.

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

    • 3
Mar 16, 2018
AndyLouis:

you win the award for most unusual post topics, though we can agree on this statement

MonacoMonkey:

A bit of backstory about me that many here might not be curious about.

lol I missed that

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Mar 16, 2018

We aren't thrown into this world. We grow out of it, like leaves from a tree

You can thank Alan Watts for that insight, which was a cornerstone of his philosophy

Mar 19, 2018

Looks like someone didn't get their allowance. Lmao this is such a joke, I know people who are so worse off and have more optimism than OP.

    • 1
Mar 19, 2018

If you had any sense you'd realize you were lucky to have parents that were there for you in the first place since many don't even have that. On top of that they were able to support you financially way past the point that most parents who love their kids can. Even if you ignorantly criticize the way they raised you after the fact you need some maturity to realize that they are human beings in their right and shouldn't be held to the standard of perfection.

So shut the fuck up and show some respect.

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Mar 19, 2018

This post is in the same vein as Chris McCandless which was subsequently covered and written about by Jon Krakauer in "Into the Wild". A disenfranchised youth goes into the wilderness and finds truth and death. His rejection of his parents life, and the opportunities afforded to him by their hard work turn out to be nothing more than the whim of an adolescent.

If you have no serious obstacle in life due to financial position, you blame your parents on not being able to to throw obstacles in your way. You speak from a profound position of privilege which 99% of the population cannot fathom. Join a club, or a sport, or brazilian jiu jitsu, I guarantee you will be humbled. At one point in life you have to realize that you cannot hold your parents accountable for your wants and wishes, and most importantly failures.

Mar 20, 2018

OP- You were showered with support that most can only dream of. Maybe you don't agree with the methods etc., but it sounds like your parents put plenty of effort into raising you to the best of their abilities. If you had ever experienced what lies on the other end of the spectrum, I PROMISE you would value the sacrifices made on your behalf. If you are feeling depressed, go seek professional help. If you are ready to put in the effort and not try to pull some Good Will Hunting bullshit on your therapist, you will see results. Placing blame on society and your family is a cop out. Many people (myself included) have battled depression for years, and I can say from experience that you are the one in control of your happiness.

Mar 20, 2018

If you're legitimately not happy from seeking personal accomplishment/experience, you could also, you know, try to give back to society. Few things give as much perspective and genuine appreciation for one's own situation than helping someone more unfortunate than yourself. In addition to being just a good thing to do and a nice act, altruism makes you feel good about yourself.... Just food for thought. Might be more helpful to you than jumping on another plane to Ibiza, etc.

Mar 21, 2018

Poor Monaco. Sounds like you need a hug. Sounds more like you're starved for attention.

A spoiled rich kid from the upper-crust northeast whining about the question of their existence is, well, pathetic.

This is the kind of post that just screams "LOVE ME! HATE ME! ANYTHING, JUST GIVE ME ATTENTION!"

Perhaps that is where your obviously loathsome parents failed you. So, sounds like you did well by learning how to lead a meaningful adulthood. Get an Ivy-league education and get on that corporate hamster-wheel of more money and more excess.

Sometimes, if all you can get out of your parents is to learn what a good example of a bad example is, you have gotten more than many children get from their parents in a lifetime. Then again, you also received a $400k education, and I suspect many frivolous luxuries that 98% of Americans will never experience in a lifetime on their own dime, much less on mom and dad's.

Money is not the root of all evil. Love of money is the root of all evil.

Apr 3, 2018

Ahh, a fellow late-stage nihilist, willing to take the risk of venting in a site filled with corporate lowlifes that have a warped sense of masculinity.

Most nearly anyone here will not care for what you have to say and they have a bit of reason but let me say a few things.

I recently posted something along the same tone of what you wrote except regarding an actual direction to take in finance (I'm college-aged still). As you're experiencing, the responses were reverse-arrogant and incredibly pompous.
In my situation, I have my family (both immediate and extended, the latter of which drives the former because they have the money) to blame for lots of shit.

However, we're a bit different in the sense that you've had the privilege of a consistent, mostly normal upbringing with just the inconvenience of straight edge parents. I, on the other hand, had a manic upbringing characterized by excess privilege stifled by periods of the exact opposite once when we forced to vacate our home, for instance. On top of that, I had parents like yours except mine didn't finish school (and I'm talking HS, not even college). So for me, that pressure was beyond proportion.
In a way, I'd kill to have your parents - normal, educated types that can possibly be reasoned with; never once for me could I reason with mine - even my fucking haircut was their directive as late as age 17.

So to keep things readable, I'd say this much: as everyone here is saying albeit in a more arrogant, dismissive fashion, you are fortunate, pal, and you're expressing pains that everyone experiences by default. No one can choose what life they come in to. However, I understand that you're speaking for everyone and not just yourself, in which case, I agree that in general it IS fucked up but as we are a pragmatic world, it begs the question: what the fuck can we do about it?

For one, we can as a society move towards shaming parents that control their children excessively (for me, this has caused immeasurable harm, personally) and as parents ourselves ensure that we solve for whatever problems we ourselves experienced as youth.

Secondly, and to the beneficial effect against overpopulation, we can espouse the idea that it's not worth having children unless you've achieved such financial freedom that those offspring can do whatever the hell they want with only our parenting itself to be limiting factors, and not financial resources.

I have ALWAYS told myself: I won't have children unless I myself (meaning not on family wealth that can be disputed by jealous cousins, etc) have enough wealth that I KNOW my kids won't lack in that sense. We should aim for the best offspring. And how can they be best? By giving them everything they need to succeed coupled with not cutting their proverbial oxygen to pursue their lives AND a simultaneous jolt towards tradition so that they don't become useless in a traditional, stuckup 50s sense of the word.

Overall, I appreciate you putting this question forward. It's 5:45am (EST) and I'm watching the sun rise from my office and was dozing off until I read this and felt the great urge to say something amidst the total uncouth dickhead hardos that compete to be the wittiest. Everyone's witty until life stares darkly at you, fellas.

Anyway, feel free to PM me if you have any other similar perturbations that are not compatible with open-ended posts. I feel there should be more psychiatric space for our industry as special snowflakey as that sounds. In the end, we can all benefit from it, pursue more profitable opportunities free of the restraints of convention, and unlock more shareholder value (shares of life).

Apr 3, 2018
CaulfieldCapital:

Ahh, a fellow late-stage nihilist, willing to take the risk of venting in a site filled with corporate lowlifes that have a warped sense of masculinity.

Aww, come on...

Apr 7, 2018
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