Best Response

True prop trading desks at dealers like the ones pre-crisis are long gone (taking large amounts of risk)... You're not going to see those coming back anytime soon.

There are a few pure desks that remain, but the amount of risk that they are allowed to take has been cut dramatically... They are primarily focused in Treasuries, Munis, and Mortgages (Exempt from Volcker)... I know Nomura, RBC, and Citi still have dedicated desks.

For the most part, most dealers have moved to integrating everything into market making desks. Because proprietary trades and hedging is a grey area, customer facing desks take proprietary risks, but its a lot harder to justify large size.

With that said, the best traders are the ones who generate revenue away from franchise P&L... But because risk has been significantly scaled down, you're never going to see traders make the amounts you saw pre-crisis ($20mm+)... However, I think closer to $5-10mm is still pretty good...

 
koalamacro:

But because risk has been significantly scaled down, you're never going to see traders make the amounts you saw pre-crisis ($20mm+)... However, I think closer to $5-10mm is still pretty good...

That $5-10mm is that calculated as x% of commissions generated for the firm?
"Act as if it were impossible to fail." -Chinese Fortune
 
FXCapitalist:
koalamacro:
But because risk has been significantly scaled down, you're never going to see traders make the amounts you saw pre-crisis ($20mm+)... However, I think closer to $5-10mm is still pretty good...


That $5-10mm is that calculated as x% of commissions generated for the firm?

I think that's base salary.
 

Remember also that the line between prop and sell-side is often blurred, as many/most desks have backbooks. The path from research to prop take about 2 years. From trading its different, b/c with more responsibility comes more risk appetite, which means prop opportunities right on the desk.

 

^ so from trading how long usually? I know someone who is 29 and works at as a proprietary trader in a big bank. He said he's not even that good. Is this common, or are they usually older?

 

" It seems like prop firms don't really do a lot of on campus recruiting, so is it more about networking than anything else?"

Not true at all. They do recruiting at their core schools. Go to the big firms websites(imc, optiver, jane street, sig, jump, etc), they all have recruiting events at their target schools.

 

For example IMC:

Harvard University December 5 (Summer Opportunities Fair) February 8 University of Chicago January 6 (Winter Career Fair) January 25 Northwestern University January 18 (McCormick Tech Expo) January 30 Stanford University January 19 (IMC Info Session) February 16 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign February 1 (Engineering Career Fair) February 10 Washington University February 2 (IMC Info Session) February 28 MIT February 7 (Tau Beta Pi Spring 2012 Career Fair) February 23 Carnegie Mellon February 8 (Employment Opportunities Conference) February 22 Princeton University February 17 (Summer Internship Fair) March 1 Harvey Mudd College February 17 (Spring 2012 Job & Internship Fair)

Jump Trading:

September

Harvard - Boutique Night: September 7th UIUC - Career Fair: September 7th UIUC - Campus Interviews: September 8th MIT - Info Session: September 13th CMU - Career Fair: September 21st CMU - Campus Interviews: September 22nd MIT - Career Fair: September 21st UW Madison - Career Fair: September 21st UIUC - Tech Talk: September 27th October

MIT - On- Campus Interviews: October 7th UIUC - On- Campus Interviews: October 7th Stanford - Career Fair: October 12th Stanford - Info Sessoin: October 12th UW Madison - On- Campus Interviews: October 14th Harvard - On- Campus Interviews: October 19th Stanford - On- Campus Interviews: October 31st

 

I would suggest asking and talking to any traders you know or can network with.

[quote=rufiolove]When evaluating whether or not to post something on WSO, I think to myself, "would an idiot post this" and if the answer is yes, I do not post that thing...[/quote]
 

not too tough, there are a number of shops that will still take guys in your shoes in fact January is a big time for hiring for a lot of shops...some of the ones you mentioned are more traditional and the quieter ones are more open to ppl who've been around a bit, but generally it's not hard to get in from a position such as yours. Good luck!

 

You probably wouldn't want to start at SIG Chicago tho.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 

Get a masters degree in computational finance or something similar. It like like an MBA for quant traders and definitely could get you in the door. Otherwise, I guess you are stuck networking. Anything is possible.

 

I am not an expert, but a few firms such as Jane Street came to my school for on campus recruiting.

First of all, economics is a quantitative field of study - at least it should be at a good program. As long as you are mentally agile (e.g. quick with mental calculations, confidence interval type questions and brain teasers), your major does not matter too much.

I personally knew a former International Math Olympiad medalist who went insane (not literally "insane" per se) and decided to read English Literature at University... I don't know what he is up to now, but if he wanted a job at Jane Street, I'm guessing he could easily get a job there (at the very least, probably an interview).

 

Bump. Also if someone could comment on this: do first year uni students (Econ) stand a chance at landing an internship at places like Jane Street in London specifically (or have to wait to being 2nd years)?

 

The answers almost always the same to these kinds of questions: network your butt off. Connections will always matter in life, and most of my friends in prop trading got there through some sort of connection (usually through their fraternity), but on the plus side, a lot of their coworkers seem to be from all around the country at random schools. In this case, you might also want to gain the relevant skills that prop shops value (CS, math, stats) since prop shops don't value soft skills as much. If you can make money for them, then you create value for them.

Seriously though, don't spam your resume through the black hole that is internet applications; at the very least, just call up the recruiter, introduce yourself, and talk to them for a couple minutes about the kind of trading they do and make sure to express your interest.

 

I'm a physics major math minor, graduating senior from a smaller school, with little experience. Took some finance classes and was in finance clubs and enjoyed them. I have some programming experience from a few intro courses- not looking for a pure programming role though.

 

I'd prefer "higher" tier firms, but I'd work for nico holdings etc...I'm not just going to go to a bad start-up with poor career prospects, otherwise I don't think itd be worth my time or the risk.

 

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